Aviation: Policy

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 23rd July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we have published our aviation policy framework for consultation and we will release the call for evidence later this year.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, since the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, has raised the issue of spare capacity at airports outside Heathrow, would the Minister not agree that Stansted, for example, has had its capacity increased very considerably and that that capacity has not been taken up? Would he not further agree, therefore, that the airlines are very unlikely to have any particular wish to make Stansted a seriously larger airport than it is now?

Civil Aviation Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Grand Committee

I am not sure of the best place in the Bill for this statutory duty, but what I am sure of is that it must be included somewhere. We all owe a duty to the environment. Why should the CAA be an exception? So I hope that my noble friend Lord Attlee will keep an open mind on this subject, agree to consider it further and come back on Report with a suitable government amendment.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

I do not think that I will detain the Committee long because I could not possibly put my arguments better than they have just been put by the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart. He has made every single point that I wanted to make, succinctly and elegantly, which is marvellous for the Committee and not so bad for me.

I support these amendments, which were moved very ably by my noble friend Lady Worthington. In particular, I want to support Amendment 69 for the very reasons that the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, gave. I felt that he put the points in exactly the way in which they needed to be put. This amendment would provide the CAA with a general duty, which would meet the objections that it would somehow be to the disadvantage of the regulated airports if they were subject to a particular kind of scrutiny by the CAA that was not going to be applied to the airports that are not regulated.

I declare an interest in that, very stupidly, I have chosen to live under two flight paths. I live in north Essex, under the flight path into Stansted, and in Dolphin Square, under the flight path into Heathrow. This was not good planning on my part, but it gives me the ability to make one particular point that the Minister knew that I might raise to do with noise.

Environmental issues can be understood very broadly or quite narrowly. What has been interesting about the whole debate this afternoon, from the outset, is that it has all been drawn towards this issue of environmental impacts. The first amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, which talked about surface access, was actually talking about the impact on passengers and local communities of insufficiently well developed infrastructure, which is an environmental impact. Noise is too, and my noble friend Lord Soley is quite right that if you live next to a railway line that goes all night, that is also disturbing. However, living under a flight path where so-called night flights really only stop between midnight and 4 am means that you lose a lot of sleep. There are a great many people who are adversely affected by that. That does not necessarily include me, as I am fortunate enough to be able to cope. However, people who are very ill, very young children or people who suffer from sleep disorders are going to be very adversely affected if noise pollution is not controlled effectively.

Emissions, which my noble friend Lady Worthington talked about with great authority, as one would expect her to do, are less easy for people to understand in their daily lives. You are not aware, on the whole, of the sort of damage that is being done to you as an individual by the aeroplane that is going over your head emitting toxic fumes that you cannot smell but which sure as heck are there. The same is true of the impact of surface transport around and in airports. The whole range of impacts that can be broadly said to be environmental is very wide, and I find it very hard to understand why the Government have so far resisted giving the CAA the general duty that Amendment 69 would give it. It gives rise to a slight suspicion that they may be susceptible to the wrong kind of pressure, possibly from the aviation industry—who knows?—rather than giving what most noble Lords in this Committee today appear to accept is proper consideration to the wider social and environmental impact of that industry’s activities.

I do not think, as my noble friend Lord Clinton-Davis appears to believe, that the industry is unmindful of its environmental impact. I do not think that at all. Having lived under the flight path into Stansted for 10 years, I am aware that a huge amount of work has gone on in the development of aircraft, in respect of both noise and emissions and that there is a strong wish on the part of the industry, in its own interests and in those of the wider community, to continue developing, for example, better fuels, which my noble friend Lord Soley mentioned, and engines and airframes that are less likely to produce excessive noise.

I do not believe that in some way this is an opportunity to bash the aviation industry or not to accept that it has done a great deal already. However, there is much more to do. The danger that we stand in if the CAA does not have the kind of strengthened position that this amendment would give it is that the competition between airports that was talked about in earlier amendments will give rise to reluctance on the part of the industry to accelerate that work as quickly as it otherwise might. It will also, as the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, has already mentioned—

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Beyond the work of the CAA, does my noble friend recognise that without any prompting the aviation industry and the trade unions concerned with aviation are all mindful of the ill effects on the ground? Is it not appropriate that a tribute should be paid to them for the work they have done and will do in future?

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

I believe I just did exactly that. As I already said, I am very well aware of the work that the industry has done and will continue to do in both its own interests and those of the wider community. I merely say that the aviation business is very competitive. There are strong pressures—which I do not suggest are venal in any way—on the airlines to compete with each other and on the airports to compete with each other. If the CAA was not properly equipped with the right regulatory powers, those pressures could lead to some of the reduction in environmental impacts that we would like to see not being achieved either as quickly as we would like or at all.

It seems to me that Amendment 69 in particular is quite modest. I did not draft it. I simply observe that it looks fairly straightforward. As the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, remarked, it is deliberately structured so as not to place an onerous duty on the CAA but to place an obligation on it where appropriate to exercise this particular power. The point that the noble Earl made about the protection that it offers the CAA is very important. Could the Minister explain to the Committee on what grounds—other than in the difference between the regulated and unregulated airports—the Government have resisted and I fear may continue to resist this particular amendment?

Airports: Heathrow

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 28th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know that the slot allocation at Heathrow Airport is not a matter for the Government.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that the noise problem is not confined to Heathrow Airport? There are considerable problems with noise over Stansted Airport, for example, and I declare an interest as a supporter of the Stop Stansted Expansion campaign. Can he say whether the Civil Aviation Bill, which is shortly to be introduced in this House, will take any account of this issue and whether it will contain any provisions for strengthening the regime that limits night flights?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as currently drafted, the Bill does not say anything about night flights, although the noble Baroness might tempt me with an amendment. It is important to understand that the problem of Heathrow is much greater than that of the other two London airports. Some 228,000 people are affected at Heathrow, whereas at Gatwick and Stansted the figure is only between 1,000 and 2,000, so the problem at Heathrow is much more serious. However, all three London airports have noise controls imposed by central government.

Aviation Policy

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

I am sure that the Government will take my noble friend’s point into consideration.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, will the Minister agree, as he has generously in the past, that one of the most difficult things for communities that are likely to be affected by airport expansion is the length of time over which these discussions have gone on? Specifically, in Stansted—I declare an interest as a supporter of the “Stop Stansted Expansion” campaign—certain areas have started to regenerate since BAA started to release properties back on to the market. If there is another period of uncertainty because the Government are not necessarily going to stick to their intention not to build a second runway at Stansted, that regeneration will begin to decline again.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Baroness makes good points. I would just reiterate that we will announce our conclusions to the aviation policy framework next year.

Gypsies and Travellers

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 16th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an interesting point. However, we all know what the problem is: poor education among Travellers; poor health outcomes; low life expectancy; and severe discrimination. We have policies to mitigate all these. However, at strategic level, successive Governments do not appear to understand what legitimate economic activity consistent with their culture Travellers should be engaged in. I will be taking up that matter with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords—

[Lord Richard]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

I broadly agree with what the noble Lord is saying. Everyone has rights but they also have obligations—and the obligations are to comply with the law.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister could return to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Laming. The noble Earl said that he had received a briefing from the Department for Education on the issue raised by the noble Lord. Is he prepared to share with the House what the briefing says?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I will have to write to the noble Baroness.

Aviation: UK Civil Aviation

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

I congratulate my noble friend Lady Gibson on introducing this debate. She is a very fine advocate for what we must all agree is a very important industry. That is about as far as she and I are going to agree in the course of this debate. Before I come to my rather more disobliging points, I recognise that a lot of what she says about the challenges facing the aviation industry and the necessity for government to be clear about its policies is absolutely right.

I have no expertise in aviation whatever, but I have some experience of the ups and downs of aviation policy, having serially harassed my own Government on the subject of airport capacity for a number of years, chiefly on environmental grounds, which my noble friend touched on, about which there is a great deal to say—but not by me in the little time that we have available this evening. I want to make just one point, or to ask one question of the Minister.

Despite welcome assurances from the Government early in their life that there would be no further runways at Heathrow, Gatwick or Stansted—and I declare an interest as a long-term supporter of the Stop Stansted Expansion campaign—runway capacity is still a major live issue, as my noble friend said, and an important matter for the civil aviation industry. The credibility that is suddenly now being accorded to the proposal for a new airport in the Thames Estuary is interesting for a number of reasons. Although there are many attractions to a solution to our capacity problems that envisages most approaches and take-offs being over water, I am tempted to say to supporters of that scheme, “Good luck with that one, but if you think that the human population of Heathrow was a problem, try the birdlife of Kent”.

My reason for being intrigued by the timing of this latest proposition to build a whole new airport comes from my experience that Governments of all persuasions have, I am afraid, a tendency to speak with forked tongue on the matter of airport expansion. I mean no offence to present incumbents when I say that. I am not a natural conspiracy theorist, but I can see the possibility, once the estuary plan has once again bitten the dust, as I fear it will—or sunk under the waves—of whoever is then in power shrugging a collective governmental shoulder and saying, “Oh well, then, we’ll have to go back to Stansted, or Heathrow, or Gatwick, or maybe all three”. The problem is that if I can see this, so can the airport operators—notably BAA, which has spent a great deal of time and money in its so far unsuccessful efforts to get new runways at Heathrow and Stansted. In doing so, it has effectively blighted whole communities by buying up land and properties, most of which it retains, despite, in the case of Stansted, being under instruction from the Competition Commission to sell the airport.

My question to the Minister is this: when the Government say no more runways at Heathrow and Stansted, what do they mean: no more for 30 years, for 10 years, until the end of this Parliament, or just until we change our minds? I am sure the Minister would accept that uncertainty about this question still hangs over communities in these areas, which are grateful for the reprieve they have had but nervous that it may only be temporary. I would be very grateful if the Minister could put them out of their misery.

Airports: London

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, that will be considered in the wider strategy, and no doubt the south-east airport study will look at it as well. I have to say, however, that although Manston has some attractions, it is quite a long way from London.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I should declare an interest as a long-term supporter of the campaign to stop expansion at Stansted Airport. The Minister will therefore get great support from me for his statement that the Government are not in favour of a predict-and-provide policy. However, does he accept that the effect of long-term uncertainty about airport expansion at various points, and certainly at Stansted, has been a blight on the surrounding areas? Will he use his and the Government’s best efforts to prevail on the British Airports Authority not to hang on to property that it owns in those areas, thereby making the blight worse?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I was delighted to see the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, rise, because I anticipated some support from her. The property issues surrounding Stansted are a matter for BAA. She also asked about uncertainty. During my research on this Question, I could not find 1 zeptogram of a suggestion that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State was going to change the policy.

Visas

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, if we deter foreign students from attending UK universities and bona fide courses, we will have failed. We are concerned about bogus courses—for instance, bookkeeping courses where overseas students are doing course after course when in reality they are just working in the UK.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

Will the Minister pay special attention to the impact of these proposals on small specialist institutions? I am thinking particularly about music conservatoires where not only is this issue likely to cause difficulty for the reasons indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, but because they are already facing particular problems in respect of tuition fees due to the uncertainty about specialist funding?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an interesting point, and I will ensure in discussions with the Immigration Minister that her points are taken into consideration.

Asylum Seekers: Medical Treatment

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 14th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, while asylum seekers are in the UK and have not exhausted their appeal rights, they are entitled to the full range of NHS services. Asylum seekers who are returned should be supplied with sufficient drugs to meet their needs and tide them over until they can access drugs in their country of return. However, I will look further into the issue raised by the noble Lord and come back to him.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I declare an interest; I serve on the Select Committee on HIV/AIDS. The noble Earl said that people who are awaiting news of their asylum status are entitled to the full range of NHS services. Will he confirm that in fact people who test positive for HIV are not able to access free treatment?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as far as I know those who test positive for HIV in the UK, as long as they have not exhausted all their appeal rights, have exactly the same access to NHS treatment as the rest of the population. If the noble Baroness knows any different, I would be grateful for the details.