Public Health: Night-time Working

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I think all your Lordships would agree on the incredible dedication of our medical and health and social care staff, before and particularly during the pandemic. We have to remember that a lot of these conditions are governed by the Health and Safety Executive guidance on managing health and safety risks, which includes guidance on shift work and fatigue, to make sure employees are treated with as much dignity and respect as possible.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, the Wilf Ward Family Trust is a charity that looks after severely disabled adults in north Yorkshire. Following the court case last year over pay for sleep-in shifts, it has had great difficulty in filling these roles and reaching an accommodation with the staff. Could my noble friend look into this—perhaps I could have a word with him afterwards—to see if that situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of both the adults in care and those providing that care?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

As my noble friend will appreciate, I cannot comment on the details of a specific case, but I would welcome a conversation with my noble friend. The general issue has to be that we make sure that patients are treated as well as possible but that staff and employers are treated with as much as dignity as they deserve.

Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (Coronavirus) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, I wish to make some comments about the actual substance of this statutory instrument, although I will start by saying that I have a lot of sympathy with what has already been said about the lack of proper parliamentary scrutiny and indeed the lack of an impact assessment, which is extremely regrettable.

As I have said in your Lordships’ House before, I am very sympathetic to the overall principle that both front-line health and care workers should be vaccinated. However, as I have always said, it must be handled in the right way, particularly given the absolutely acute pressures that both health and social care are under and will be over the winter months. It is absolutely critical that the right amount of help and support is made available to health and care workers who are genuinely vaccine hesitant—and that means things such as one-to-one conversations during work time in which they can express what their concerns are and, I hope, get additional information.

I know very well from personal experience that care homes that, for example, have brought GPs in to have one-to-one conversations, taken the concerns that care workers have expressed seriously and tried to explain why it would be a good idea to have the vaccine, have had an awful lot of success, and I am concerned that there is not enough focus at the moment on that help and support. It was very regrettable—this point was raised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee —that the draft Explanatory Memorandum made no reference to any lessons learned from the rollout of the earlier care home regulations, as well as being silent on what contingency plans the department had to cope with the expected staff losses when the regulations take effect. I know that those staffing issues will be particularly acute in London, where I live.

I recently had a helpful meeting with Healthwatch, which shared with me some very good research. It commissioned an organisation called Traverse to undertake in-depth conversations with a range of people, mainly of African, Bangladeshi, Caribbean and Pakistani ethnicity, to understand the reasons for their vaccine hesitancy and what can be done about it. Although the research was carried out with the groups I have specified, I suspect that the conclusions drawn in the report have more widespread application.

I found it interesting that the attitudes expressed were incredibly personal to the individual. One of the lessons learned is that you cannot lump all this together and say, “This is the issue for this group”; you have to think very carefully about individual concerns. There was most clearly, as we know, a lack of trust, which featured strongly in terms of the vaccine, and there was very strong distrust of those who had any possibility of standing to gain commercially from the rollout, which I thought was an important point. Probably most notable of all, people said that they trusted most of all front-line healthcare workers to talk about Covid and the vaccine and had less trust in very senior people in the NHS or Public Health England, who were perceived to have less tangible experience. That interesting document ends with very seven practical tips: ways to try to encourage health and social care workers to become less vaccine hesitant.

I end by asking the Minister whether he is aware of this document—if he is not, I am very happy to send it to him—but, more generally, what steps the Government and NHS England have taken to promulgate this sort of important and practical good practice and advice?

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I echo the words of my noble friend the Minister in introducing the regulations before us in praising the heroic efforts of the whole health service: the volunteers, nurses, doctors and pharmacists—everyone involved. The vaccination programme is essential, but I hope that GPs and practitioners will have the vaccines in time to roll them out. My noble friend is aware of my work with the Dispensing Doctors’ Association.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. Let us hope that the NHS will fix it. As the NHS says, it is aware of the issue and will try to fix it and update as soon as possible. But, clearly, if that is not possible, we will have to update the guidance, and I will take that back to the department.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I think that my noble friend said that the peak of the omicron infection rate is expected in January. Will he confirm that the lateral flow testing will last through January to March if that is the case? Will he join me in congratulating the Dispensing Doctors’ Association, with which I declare my interest as an adviser, on rolling out specifically the programme to which my noble friend Lord Naseby referred of vaccinating the housebound? Can he look into the fact that the Covid pass that is issued reflects only two vaccines and not the booster vaccination?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I pay tribute to my noble friend for making us aware of the dispensing doctors, and for making people like me, who are much more urban-centred, aware of some of the issues in rural areas. On the Covid pass, up to now, in most countries it has not been a requirement to have the booster shown in order to travel. Clearly, all countries will now be updating their travel requirements and restrictions. I am afraid I have a terrible short-term memory. What was the first question?

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Lateral flow tests.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Yes. Given the advice on testing, especially if you are pinged and have to test, clearly we will make sure that there are sufficient tests available.

Health and Care Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 7th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my declaration of interest in the register: I currently work with the Dispensing Doctors’ Association and my father was a dispensing doctor. I congratulate my noble friend the Minister on introducing the Bill, which I broadly support—particularly its emphasis on greater collaboration between GPs, hospitals and local authorities.

If I can paraphrase the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, whom I congratulate on an excellent maiden speech, I agree that all health services are local. However, I disagree with him on his support for the fluoridation of the water supply, and refer him to the case of the petitioner, Mrs McColl, against Strathclyde Regional Council. You might say that I cut my legal teeth on this case because I spent nine months as a Bar apprentice and the remaining time as a devil; my devil master was one of the advocates for Strathclyde Regional Council. Crucially, Mrs McColl had dentures; she had no teeth. She argued that fluoride is a carcinogen and that the action Strathclyde Regional Council sought to introduce, which the Bill also seeks to introduce, was unsafe, ineffective and illegal. I agreed with her. She won her case. I cannot see how it is appropriate to prescribe such an interventionist action that could be achieved by other means: either regularly brushing children’s and adults’ teeth with toothpaste containing fluoride or reducing sugar in the diet. So, on that, we will disagree, but I warmly welcome the noble Lord to the House and congratulate him on his excellent maiden speech.

I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for the meeting we had to discuss these issues, at which he heard me argue that the NHS and the Department of Health and Social Care tend to be urban-centric. A lot of that has been proved in many of the speeches this evening. Dispensing doctors have a unique role to play. They are general practitioners who are permitted to dispense medicines—in effect, a GP and a pharmacy rolled into one—for patients who would otherwise have difficulty accessing one or both, not least due to the distance from their home. All these services are in rural areas only. I pay tribute to the role that dispensing doctors play as an integral part of the health service in rural communities, building strong relationships with their patients. They are crucial to the delivery and promotion of preventive services and well-being, which is so dear to the heart of the Conservative manifesto.

I will focus on delivering healthcare and social care in a rural setting. I urge my noble friend to confirm that he will redress the inequalities already identified in this Bill, particularly by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, to restore the balance in favour of spending on rural areas as opposed to urban areas and in favour of spending on primary care as opposed to secondary care. Does he share my concern that the ICSs will be full of secondary care practitioners and that primary care practitioners may not be as well represented as they might be?

I share the concerns expressed by others this evening about the number of GPs, many of whom are facing retirement in the next five or 10 years and have real concerns about their pensions. Again, I regret the fact that the Government—as shown both this evening and with the Health Secretary’s acceptance to the health Select Committee next door in the other place—have not kept their commitment to increasing the number of doctors in the next four, five or six years. That is deeply regrettable.

Will my noble friend the Minister use this opportunity to redress the balance in spending between urban and rural areas? Rural areas are facing issues with isolation and the distance that patients have to travel to access healthcare; they also have disproportionately higher levels of older people with chronic conditions. This is a golden opportunity to address these issues; I warmly invite my noble friend to do so.

Coronavirus Act 2020 (Early Expiry) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the opportunity to debate the provisions in the regulations before us and I congratulate my noble friend on bringing them forward. I thank him for the meeting that I had in the last 10 days with him and his team, which was most useful. I endorse enthusiastically his invitation for those who have not yet been vaccinated to come forward. This would be an opportunity to ask where we are, particularly with those under 18. Have they had their second vaccinations and at what age will the vaccine programme be rolled out?

I remind the Committee of my interest as an adviser to the Dispensing Doctors’ Association, which may or may not pertain to the comments that I make this afternoon. I seek my noble friend’s guidance on whether one area that I am particularly interested in, as I know are all general practitioners, is covered in the provisions before us. If it is not, can he write to me? I understand that one of the reasons why GPs are unable to have as many face-to-face appointments as they would wish is that they have been constrained by the regulations passed by both Houses of Parliament. I cannot remember whether the provision was in the original Act or in supplementary regulations in the form of statutory instruments that we have adopted. However, I understand that specific regulations regarding the square footage or meterage of a waiting room were set out at the beginning of the pandemic, limiting the number of patients who could be accommodated in person in a waiting room during the pandemic. I think that it was the same for dental practices.

Are these provisions still in place? If they are not part of these regulations, I would be grateful if my noble friend could write to me. It could be extremely important to advise the public that that is why doctors are not able to see as many patients physically as they would wish to do. I am sure that the regulations were brought in for good reasons—that we should not be mixing and should be masking and that we should respect the ventilation to which my noble friend referred, while self-distancing—but it is important that patients understand the constraints under which general practitioners have to operate.

To turn to the specific remit of the regulations before us, my noble friend just stated, and I think that it is on page 5 of the Explanatory Memorandum, that the Government are minded to expire and lift the regulations relating to the power in Schedule 22

“to provide powers to issue directions relating to events, gatherings and premises in England and Northern Ireland respectively.”

With the greatest respect, mindful of the fact that we might have difficulties once we know more about the omicron variant, is this the right time to be lifting those restrictions? Can my noble friend put my mind at rest that powers exist elsewhere, either in subsequent regulations or still in the original Act? It seems a little premature to be expiring those provisions at this time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I apologise if I was not clearer before. I thank the noble Baroness for taking advantage of the opportunity to ask that question and finding the urge to do so irresistible. On theatres and cinemas, one of the things that was put to us was that in a restaurant, you are constantly taking a mask on and off, whereas in a cinema or theatre you are not really eating that much. Okay, you might well go to buy your ice cream—I do not know whether they still sell ice cream and jelly babies in theatres, or whatever it used to be; this will look very odd in Hansard when someone reads it—but you are not constantly doing and you are more or less constantly wearing your mask. However, I will take that back. It is a fair point, and one thing that I do when I am being briefed is to challenge because I know that noble Lords will rightly challenge me on this issue.

In response to the comments by Jenny Harries, I hope I have been clear that we take advice from a range of advisers and there is not yet consensus, but we have been relying not just on making mask mandatory when necessary as a precaution, but at the same time on people’s individual behaviour and them acting responsibly. It is about getting that balance right. We listen to Dr Jenny Harries, but she is one of a number of experts whom we listen to. We weigh up the different views; it is as simple as that. As we have been clear, there is no one trigger for any of these measures. We always consider a range of measures, including capacity in the NHS, the trends et cetera. I have listed them in previous debates. It is not one person whom we listen to. We listen to a range of experts.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend undertake to write to me about waiting facilities in GP waiting rooms? That would be helpful. I am also prompted by a question that I do not think he responded to from the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, on the welfare aspects of staff shortages in meat-processing plants and the massive cull of pigs. While I appreciate it might not be the direct responsibility of his department, this is an animal welfare disaster about to happen.

One thing that I did not like to raise—I am sure it will go no further than the Grand Committee, which is why I feel confident to raise it now—is that my noble friend will be aware that there is PPE equipment which was deemed not fit for use, but it is in the system and is, to a certain extent, clogging up the supply chain by taking space which should be used for other goods. Will he undertake to use his good offices to look into this? Perhaps we could have a word about it afterwards because it is contributing to shortages and delays in the supply chain, particularly in storage terms.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

First, I apologise for missing that point earlier. Regarding the supply chain provision, an SI was laid under the draft affirmative procedure on 21 April 2021. It was debated and approved by both Houses, came into force on 16 July and expired the provision. As the noble Baroness rightly acknowledged, some of her questioning was not within the scope of these regulations. However, given that she has asked a question, I will endeavour to find out the answer. Clearly, that will include going across departments, so I hope that she will be patient as I try to get that answer as quickly as possible.

On GP access, we recognise the pressure that general practitioners are under, especially in the upcoming and challenging winter period. We are investing £250 million in the winter access fund to improve GPs’ practice capacity. I will take the noble Baroness’s specific question about square metres and areas back to be answered; I hope she understands that I do not have those facts to mind.

The issue of measures was also raised. We must remember that one of the counterpoints put is that the country is in a very different position to the one it was in last year, due to the vaccination programme. Some of the restrictions that might have seemed appropriate last year are not as appropriate this year because we have reduced the link between cases and hospitalisations, as well as between hospitalisations and deaths. Clearly, we have the vaccine. I am sorry if I sound like a broken record but we continue to push the vaccine because it helps to break that link; it is part of the reason why we will not have to go back to some of the restrictions—those similar to last year’s—that many noble Lords are pushing for.

All I will say is that the Government’s autumn and winter plan set out how we will sustain and strengthen some of the progress made so far. We all know that winter will be a challenging period, but more so over the next few months. We all have a role to play in fighting the virus. There is much that government can do but sometimes, even when we mandate things, we know that there will be people who do not obey, so we must get the balance right and decide how to get the appropriate enforcement. Together, we believe that we can protect the progress that we have made, protect the NHS in the months ahead and help friends, loved ones and ourselves by being vaccinated against Covid-19, getting a flu jab if eligible and sticking to the advice on how to keep safe.

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate and previous ones on the Coronavirus Act; I also thank them in advance for future contributions. I welcome noble Lords’ expertise and contributions, and I commend the regulations to the Committee.

NHS England: Waiting Lists

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The noble Lord made a very perceptive intervention last night when asking us to think outside the box, and I gave an example of someone who I know suffers from asthma and forgot to take his blue inhaler with him to another city. His wife went to a number of places to try to get an inhaler from the pharmacy and from A&E, while telling him to stay in his hotel room. In the end, he was told that the only way to get an inhaler was to call the ambulance. We need to think outside the box and be more creative about when those situations occur—it is not necessarily political, but we need to be creative.

On technology, one of my jobs is Minister for Technology, Innovation and Life Sciences. I have been forceful, when talking to the NHS, that we have to digitise and share data. I accept that there are some concerns over sharing data, but the way to have an NHS that is fit for purpose is to make sure that we digitise and share data.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I refer to my work with dispensing doctors. Will my noble friend join me in paying tribute to all the workforce of the NHS? Does he recognise that they are absolutely exhausted? The BMA has forecast that thousands of doctors will leave the profession in the next few years. Will the Government undertake to reinstate the commitment to have 6,000 more doctors by 2024?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

In our conversations with the NHS, we are talking about the workforce plan. We are looking at ways to improve the way in which the NHS and social care plan for their workforce. We have committed to continuing to reflect very carefully on points made by noble Lords across the House. honourable Members in the House of Commons and many stakeholders. It is important that we value the workforce of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers whom people often forget about. We should also value all those other workers who have provided services to us during lockdown, such as delivery drivers, postal workers, Amazon workers et cetera. They have all played a vital role, and we should not forget the role of civil society organisations.

Alcohol Duties

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

The World Health Organization and a number of other organisations have criticised the current system of taxation of alcohol, and urged the Government—and the EU when we were a member of it—to move toward taxation based upon the volume of alcohol. To answer the noble Baroness’s specific question, there are no current plans to implement minimum unit pricing in England, but the Government continue to monitor the impact of minimum unit pricing as evidence emerges from Scotland and Wales. It has been in place in Scotland for more than three years, and the Scottish Parliament will not consider its extension until April 2024. In all my conversations with various public health experts, one of the things that they make quite clear is that this has to be evidence-led, and we want to look at evidence from elsewhere.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I declare my interest as chairman of the PASS Proof of Age Standards Board. I also chaired the Select Committee on the Licensing Act 2003. Does the Minister agree with the Committee when it said:

“It is in our view unarguable that an increase in the price of alcohol will decrease consumption.”?


Does he further agree that, by increasing the taxation on stronger alcohol as the Budget aims to do, that will have a better chance of reducing alcohol intake and dependency than the minimum unit pricing that we have seen in Scotland?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that very important point. This is why the new system of taxation has been introduced. It will more directly align the volume of alcohol with the taxation on it. That will feed through to higher prices for drinks with higher alcohol content.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps etc.) (England) (Revocation and Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 14th September 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, I am speaking in this debate because my noble friend Lady Brinton cannot be in her place to take part. We have the technology to enable remote participation in debates in the Moses Room, but the House authorities have not yet permitted that for contributions in Grand Committee, so virtual participation in these proceedings is unfortunately not possible, even though we have seen in this last week that the very few participants who need to take part remotely can be managed very effectively without recourse to extensive speakers’ lists.

It is also a loss to the Committee, because my noble friend Lady Brinton cannot take part for one very important reason, about which she has been quite public: she is clinically vulnerable, and one thing she cannot do is travel on public transport, which she cannot do because people are not wearing masks. Of all people, she should have been able to be here to make that point.

Yet again, these SIs were tabled very late. They came in just before the recess in late July, so yet again we are back to debating things that are long in the past. We have repeatedly asked the Government to respect the House and timetable SIs when they are not genuinely urgent. However, these are, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, said, quite pertinent in view of the Statements being made this week.

This statutory instrument mostly deals with the revocation of statutory instruments on 21 July, which confirmed a number of the changes in the Prime Minister’s so-called freedom day. However, there is one extension, in Regulation 4, to the expiry date of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations, which are now to end on 27 September. The Explanatory Memorandum says that this

“will ensure that local authorities retain powers to respond to local serious and imminent public health threats as a result of the spread of coronavirus. The No. 3 Regulations will continue to act as an important public health tool for local authorities in their local coronavirus outbreak management, compliance and enforcement activities. This is particularly important in light of the revocation of the other restrictions mentioned above”.

As we have said all the way through this pandemic, it is important that local authorities have the power to manage local outbreaks. Simply extending that power in law, but not making sure that they have the resources, will not work. As epidemiologists have said to us in terms, there will inevitably be points when it is important to close all the pubs in a certain area, simply because an outbreak has to be contained. While we welcome that, it behoves the Minister to say something about local authorities such as Croydon, which is insolvent, and how it will have the resources to manage this significant and enduring public health problem.

We regret the removal of face coverings on public transport and other crowded venues. I can say, as somebody who travels on the London Underground every working day, that fewer and fewer people are wearing masks and, as more and more people are on the Tube, I am certain we will see a spike in infections as a result. I also point out to noble Lords that the bad messaging on this does not help. There is genuine confusion. One of my colleagues was on a train to Scotland in the summer and, when it got to the border, there was an announcement that the law now required everybody on that train to wear a mask, and they did, as they should have done all the way.

It is now clear that the Government, and in particular the Prime Minister, have been so desperate to place emphasis on the vaccination programme as our primary defence that they have forgotten to look at the role of other mitigations against the disease. Although we support the passing of these regulations, we need to make the messaging clearer as a matter of urgency, so we can avoid the confusion that is now prevalent among people in England.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the regulations and congratulate my noble friend on bringing them before us. To a certain extent, my comments echo those that have already been made by previous speakers. I was fortunate enough to visit my family in Denmark and Scotland this summer, and the guidance in each place was much clearer. Speaking as an older person, I prefer to keep my mask on, on all forms of public transport. I am sure my noble friend will recognise that one of the reasons why there was not a high incidence of flu last year was, in large measure, because we followed the example of the Asians after the SARS epidemic in the late 2000s of masking up. Even the common cold was kept under control.

I understand the Department of Health and Social Care’s concern about a high incidence of flu this year, but I am sure we can encourage people to mask up, particularly in areas of close proximity. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, mentioned the Tube. I am still reluctant to go on the Tube at busy times, but even the trains on the east coast main line are incredibly busy now, and you can find yourself next to someone who you are not normally accustomed to seeing.

To me, wearing a mask is not an infringement of my liberty; it is my passport to health and keeping safe. I hope that it will keep others safe as well. Does my noble friend imagine that the guidance will be revisited? It is in stark contrast to what has applied in Denmark and in Scotland.

Flu Vaccination and Blood Test Cancellations

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 14th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, it is not my understanding that appointments have been cancelled. If the noble Lord has any anecdotes, reports or evidence of that, I would be very grateful if he could send me that material. Seqirus, the company concerned, brings its vaccines in from overseas.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I remind the House of my interest, in working with the Dispensing Doctors’ Association. If my noble friend reads the BMA website for 4 September, he will see that it reports numerous cancellations of appointments for meticulously planned routine flu vaccinations. Obviously, that has caused great disruption. Will he undertake to treat this matter with the utmost urgency, to ensure that GP practices are not left to face the music, and that the Government will do their utmost to roll out the vaccine programme?

Care Home Occupancy Rate

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we have written to local authorities to make it clear what the funding is there for and to make recommendations on the sort of financial support that may be needed to bridge this moment when occupancy levels have been reduced because of concerned families taking their loved ones out of care homes. That funding is in place, and it is up to local authorities to make their decisions on the matter.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, what has the impact of the pandemic been on those who choose to receive care in their own homes? With the rise of closures of private care homes and fewer public sector beds being available, have we got the balance in provision right?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, there is an important area of support for those who decide to have care at home. During the pandemic, we did an enormous amount to ensure that there were infection-safe procedures and to reduce the use of itinerant care workers in order to provide safety for those who were at home. Support for those who choose to be cared for at home should be increased. I do not recognise the idea that the number of beds in local authority care has reduced so far, but I am happy to look into the matter.