Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Tuesday 19th October 2010

(13 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)
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Order. Before the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) intervenes, may I remind the Committee that we are not discussing AV versus first past the post? We are debating a particular form in this amendment, and we are now drifting away from that a little. Perhaps we could come back to it.

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
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I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.

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Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
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The hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

I refer the Committee to the evidence submitted to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee by Professor Patrick Dunleavy in the 14th written submission on page 205 in the third report on the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. In his important paper, he asks what the alternative vote means. Were the Bill to pass, and were there to be a referendum in which the question on the alternative vote appeared on the ballot paper, many members of the public would ask precisely that question: what does the alternative vote mean?

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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Order. That might be in people’s minds, or it might not, but the hon. Gentleman must come back to his amendment, which covers a particular version of the system. I would be grateful if he would stay focused on that point; it is quite a narrow one.

Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
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It is indeed.

The effect of my amendment would be to adopt the system that Professor Dunleavy describes as London AV, rather than the three alternatives—classic AV, Australian AV and London AV—also set out in his document. The amendment has obviously been selected for debate because Mr Speaker recognised that there is more than one system of alternative votes. The system that I am describing can be described as the supplementary vote system, but there is also one known as the Australian system.

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Christopher Chope Portrait Mr Chope
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I cannot change my amendment at this stage, and I am not sure that an amendment dealing with AV-plus would have been selected. If the hon. Gentleman wanted an AV-plus amendment, he could have—

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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Order. We are not discussing AV-plus. Can we get back to the amendment? We have a lot of business to get through over the next two days, so I would be grateful if all hon. Members—in their interventions as well as their speeches—focused their comments on the amendment.

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Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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Order. I hope that in replying, the hon. Gentleman will not be tempted into a general discussion about AV.

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant
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I would like to ask you, Ms Primarolo, whether you view this as constituting a stand part debate as well.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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I do not consider this to be a stand part debate because the amendment is very narrow. Members should be aware of that: if they push the margins too widely, it will lead to sacrificing debate later.

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant
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Fine. I just wanted to give notice that we would like a stand part debate when the debate on this amendment has concluded.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough (Sir Stuart Bell) is wrong. In theory, it might seem possible to cast seven preferences if there were seven candidates; however, a preference would be expressed only six times, as at the end it is a choice between the sixth and seventh candidates. It is unlikely that that would happen very often in practice.

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Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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Order. I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows that the views of the parliamentary Labour party, vast or otherwise, are not specifically relevant to the amendment. Perhaps I can help the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) by informing him that he can move on.

Iain Stewart Portrait Chris Bryant
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I am very grateful, Ms Primarolo. I should have thought that the views of the parliamentary Labour party were slightly relevant to the debate—certainly when it comes to the vote—but obviously I do not seek to challenge your ruling. I merely say to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) that I do not think that anyone has fully tested the precise views held, and there are many respects in which I think he is wrong. For instance, I think that the vast majority of us in the parliamentary Labour party want to change the electoral system, so that registration can be improved throughout the land and the 3 million people who are currently not on the register can be included.

I merely wished to make a few simple points. If it is certain that we are to have a clause stand part debate, I will reserve some of the other points that I wish to make until then.

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Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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Order. The Minister is addressing very clearly a number of complex points, and I realise that he is looking behind him because he wants to be as helpful as possible, but we need him to face forward so that Members in all parts of the Chamber can hear his comments.

Mark Harper Portrait Mr Harper
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I am grateful, Ms Primarolo. I think my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch wanted to intervene.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Monday 18th October 2010

(13 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Mark Harper Portrait Mr Harper
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend: I had indeed omitted to talk about his amendment 61, about overseas voters. He will know that at the moment there is a 15-year time limit, to which he drew attention, for British citizens who live overseas. The Government are considering whether to bring proposals before the House in due course. Again, however, I would say to him that this Bill, on the referendum, is not the place to explore that issue. However, he is an eternal optimist, and he might not have to wait eternally before he can debate the matter in the House—perhaps in the near future. I hope that that will satisfy him and enable him, in all good conscience, not to press his amendments to a vote.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)
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Natascha Engel, do you wish to respond to the debate?

Natascha Engel Portrait Natascha Engel
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I will be seeking your permission to press my amendment 332 to a vote when the time comes, Ms Primarolo. It is a shame that the Minister has focused on a technicality, rather than looking at the important point behind the principle of extending the franchise to 16-year-olds. That is a shame; therefore, I shall seek to divide the Committee on my amendment.

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Mark Harper Portrait Mr Harper
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On a point of order, Ms Primarolo. I gave a commitment on Second Reading that I and other Front Benchers would do what we could to ensure that the Committee had an opportunity either to debate or to vote on the significant issues that arose. Given the time, the Committee will wish to know that in the event of our not reaching clause 6 in today’s debate, I intend to allow it to vote, even if that is, sadly, without debate, on the lead amendment in the group selected for debate in relation to that clause, which proposes turnout thresholds for the referendum to be valid. With the permission of the Members concerned, a member of the Government will therefore move amendment 3 so that it can be put to the vote, thereby fulfilling the commitment that I made on Second Reading.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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I am sure that the Minister knows that, strictly speaking, that is not a point of order. He has given a point of information to the Committee on how he intends to conduct the business this evening, and I am sure that all Members have taken note of it. I do not wish to have a debate on how the Government might handle this, and I should like to return to the debate because there is still a great deal to cover.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 2

Rules for conduct of the referendum

Mark Harper Portrait Mr Harper
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I beg to move amendment 267, page 26, line 5, leave out ‘16th’ and insert ‘15th’.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 170, 269, 271 to 273, 171 to 173, 177 to 181, 306 and 161.

Mark Harper Portrait Mr Harper
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The amendments make minor and technical drafting changes to the Bill. Amendments 267 and 269 change the deadline for issuing the notice of poll in the rules for the conduct of the referendum from 16 to 15 days before the poll. The change is necessary to ensure that the combination provisions, which we tabled earlier today, work in the right way.

The rest of the amendments contain a series of miscellaneous minor technical amendments and corrections. I am happy to discuss them further if Members are interested in the detail. I commend them to the Committee.

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Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant
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I beg to move amendment 354, page 27, line 37, at end insert—

‘(iii) a school which enjoys charitable status.’.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman
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With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 355, page 27, line 38, leave out from ‘Scotland’ to end of line 39 and insert

‘any school other than those which are run as profit-making enterprises’.

Amendment 356, page 27, line 41, after ‘Assembly’, insert

‘or a school which enjoys charitable status’.

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant
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The amendments are in my name and that of my right hon. Friend the Leader of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition. Historically, legislation has always provided that the returning officer is able to use polling stations in state-provided schools. For many people up and down the land, when they go to vote, they expect to turn up to a school. Normally it is their local primary school, but provision may be made in their local secondary school. Sometimes, where schools have disappeared, there is a problem with the local returning officer finding a suitable venue. Of course, there is an impact on local state schools: sometimes they have to be closed because there is no other means of providing that the returning officer can use the entrance and make sure that there is security for the children in the school.

These are three simple amendments, the first of which—amendment 354—would insert in schedule 2, page 27, line 37, the words

“a school which enjoys charitable status”,

so that the provisions applied not just to schools provided by the state. We have used that term in relation to the law in England and Wales, because in those areas, independent schools with good facilities that might be made available could be so termed. To provide a similar provision for Scotland, we have tabled amendment 355, which would insert, in schedule 2, page 27, line 38, the phrase

“any school other than those which are run as profit-making enterprises”,

because the independent sector in Scotland works slightly differently.

I see that none of our Northern Irish colleagues is with us, but amendment 356 relates to Northern Ireland. We would not want to conflict with the provisions relating to Roman Catholic schools run by nunneries and convents, so we have not provided the exact same measure as for England and Wales, where “charitable status” covers the situation. We therefore suggest in the amendment that in schedule 2, page 27, line 41, after “Assembly”, we should insert

“or a school which enjoys charitable status”.

I recognise that there are those who would say, “Why on earth should independent sector schools be forced to act as polling stations?” I suspect that more independent schools are likely to say that they would quite like the income that might accrue. More importantly, I do not see why state-provided schools should be regularly used and should therefore undergo the upheaval that polling stations cause, but the independent sector which, in the main, enjoys charitable status and is therefore able to have tax benefits, should not be required to provide the same facilities.

The Minister may say, “We think this is an unnecessary measure.” Our point is that it should be a matter of fairness. The provision should apply across the board. It should not be state schools alone that are inconvenienced. The inconvenience should be shared by all. In addition, some preparatory schools or public schools would be able to provide the necessary facilities relatively easily, without any major inconvenience to them.

In recent years we have seen a considerable attempt by schools in the independent sector to open their doors so that they are far more engaged in the local community. This is an opportunity for them to be engaged in the political process. I hope the amendments will be acceptable to the Government. I am sure they would not want to defend the present injustice.

Public Bodies Reform

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Thursday 14th October 2010

(13 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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That is an admirable suggestion, which I will take away and ponder.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
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I thank hon. Members and Ministers. A great many Members managed to ask short pithy questions on the statement and the answers were also short.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Tuesday 12th October 2010

(13 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Caroline Lucas Portrait Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
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I beg to move amendment 7, page 1, leave out from line 7 to end of line 4 on page 2 and insert—

‘(3) The questions that are to appear on the ballot paper are—

“(1) Do you want to change the current “first past the post” system for electing Members of Parliament to the House of Commons?

(2) If there were a change, list your order of preference, 1, 2, 3, for the United Kingdom to adopt:

(a) The ‘alternative vote’ system,

(b) The ‘additional member’ system, or

(c) The ‘single transferable vote’ system with multi-member constituencies?”.

(4) In Wales, a Welsh version of the question is also to appear on the ballot papers.

(5) The voting for the second question in the referendum shall be in accordance with section (Counting of votes on second question of referendum).’.

Baroness Primarolo Portrait The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)
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With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendment 230.

Amendment 140, page 1, leave out lines 8 to 11 and insert—

‘Rank your preference for the system for electing members to the House of Commons (a) Alternative Vote (b) First Past The Post (c) The Single Transferable Vote.’.



Amendment 204, page 1, line 9, after ‘vote’, insert ‘plus’.

Government amendment 231.

Amendment 141, page 2, line leave out lines 1 to 4 and insert—

‘Graddiwch pa gyfundrefn o ethol aelodau i Ty’r Cyffredin sydd well gennych chi. (a) Pleidlais Amgen (b) Cyntaf i’r Felin (c) Pleidlais Sengl Drosglwyddadwy.’.

Amendment 205, page 2, line 2, after ‘amgen’, insert ‘plws’.

Amendment 142, page 2, line 4, at end insert—

‘(4) In Scotland, the following Gaelic version of the question is also on ballot papers—

Rangaich do roghainn a thaobh an t-siostaim taghaidh buill gu Taigh nan Cumantan? (a) Bhòt Eadar-roghnach (b) A’Chiad Bhuannaiche (c) Bhòt Mhalairteach Shingilte.’.

Amendment 14, in schedule 1, page 15, line 30 leave out

‘in favour of each answer to the question’

and insert

‘in answer to the questions’.

Amendment 15, page 19, line 24, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 16, in schedule 2, page 26, line 39, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 17, line 17, leave out ‘answer’ and insert ‘answers’.

Amendment 18, page 32, line 16, after ‘only’, insert

‘in relation to each question’.

Amendment 19, page 47, line 22, leave out ‘to the referendum question’ and insert

‘either or both of the referendum questions’.

Amendment 143, page 54, leave out lines 7 to 16 and insert

‘In England the ballot shall be as follows:

Front of ballot paper

Rank your preference for the system for electing members to the House of Commons Please rank in order of preference (1,2,3) You must mark at least one number on the ballot

Alternative Vote

First Past the Post

Single Transferable Vote



In Wales, the ballot paper shall be as follows:

Front of ballot paper

Graddiwch pa gyfundrefn o ethol aelodau i Ty’r Cyffredin sydd well gennych chi

Rhowch pa gynfundrefn sydd well gennych chi yn ôl trefn blaenoriaeth (1,2,3) Rhaid i chi farcio o leiaf un rhif ar y papur pleidleisio.

Rank your preference for the system for electing members to the House of Commons Please Rank in order of preference (1,2,3) You must mark at least one number on the ballot.

Pleidlais Amgen/ Alternative Vote

Cyntaf i’r Felin/ First Past the Post

Pleidlais Sengl Drosglwyddadwy/ Single Transferable Vote



In Scotland, the ballot paper shall be as follows:

Front of ballot paper

Rangaich do roghainn a thaobh an t-siostaim taghaidh buill gu Taigh nan Cumantan Rangaich iad a rèir do roghainn (1,2,3) Feumaidh tu co-dhiù aon àireamh a chomharrachadh sa bhaileat. Rank your preference for the system for electing members to the House of Commons Please Rank in order of preference (1,2,3) You must mark at least one number on the ballot.

Bhòt Eadar-rognach/ Alternative Vote

A’Chiad Bhuannaiche/ First Past the Post

Bhòt Mhalairteach Shinglite/ Single Transferable Vote





Amendment 20, page 54, leave out lines 9 to 16 and insert—

Vote (X) once for question 1

1. Do you want to change the current “first past the post” system for electing Members of Parliament to the House of Commons

Yes

No

Then list your preference for what new system might be adopted by numbering 1, 2, 3 for question 2

2. If there was a change do you want the United Kingdom to adopt:

(a) The “alternative vote” system or

(b) The “additional member system” or

(c) The “single transferable vote” system with three member constituencies?’.



Government amendment 232.

Amendment 223, page 54, line 12, after ‘vote’, insert ‘plus’.

Amendment 21, page 55, leave out line 3.

Amendment 22, page 55, line 4, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 23, page 55, line 5, leave out ‘question’ and insert’ questions’.

Amendment 24, page 55, leave out line 20.

Amendment 25, page 55, line 25, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 26, page 55, line 26, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 27, page 55, line 27, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 28, page 55, line 32, leave out ‘question’ and insert ‘questions’.

Amendment 46, page 57, line 15,after ‘only’, insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 47, page 57, line 18, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 48, page 58, line 32, after ‘only’ insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 49, page 59, line 2, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 50, page 60, line 6, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 51, page 60, line 7 after ‘only’ insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 52, page 63, line 15, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 53, page 63, line 17, after ‘only’, insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 54, page 67, line 5, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 55, page 67, line 9, after ‘only’, insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 56, page 73, line 5, leave out ‘you are voting for’ and insert

‘to question 1 you are voting for, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 57, page 73, line 7, after ‘only’ insert

‘in relation to question 1, and indicate your preferences in relation to question 2’.

Amendment 144, in clause 6, page 4, leave out lines 27 and 28 and insert—

‘(a) the answer “alternative vote” is selected in the referendum, and’.

Amendment 8, page 4, line 28, after ‘“No”’, insert

‘to Question 1, and the alternative vote system is selected in response to question 2 in the referendum’.

Amendment 9, page 4, line 32, at end insert—

‘(1A) The Minister must make an order bringing into force section (The single transferable vote system: amendments) if—

(a) the single transferable vote system is selected in response to question 2 of the referendum, and

(b) the draft of an Order in Council laid before Parliament under subsection (5A) of section 3 of the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (substituted by section 8(6) below) which provides for multi-member constituencies, in accordance with subsection (4) of section 3 of that Act as amended by section 8(5A) below, has been submitted to Her Majesty in Council under section 4 of that Act.

(1B) The Minister must make an order bringing into force section (The additional member system: amendments) if—

(a) the single transferable vote system is selected in response to question 2 of the referendum, and

(b) the draft of an Order in Council laid before Parliament under subsection (5A) of section 3 of the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (substituted by section 8(6) below) which provides for the additional member system, in accordance with subsection (4) of section 3 of that Act as amended by section 8(5A) below, has been submitted to Her Majesty in Council under section 4 of that Act.’.

Amendment 145, page 4, line 33, leave out from ‘if’ to second ‘the’ in line 34 and insert

‘the answer “alternative vote” is not selected in the referendum’.

Amendment 10, page 4, line 34, leave out from ‘“No”’ to end and insert

‘to Question 1, the Minister must make an order repealing the alternative vote provisions and section (The single transferable vote system: amendments) and section (The additional member system: amendments).’.

Amendment 11, page 4, line 39, leave out ‘subsection (1)’ and insert ‘subsections (1), (1A) or (1B)’.

Amendment 206, in clause 7, page 5, leave out lines 2 to 11 and insert—

‘How constituency votes are to be given

37A (1) A voter votes by marking a constituency ballot paper and a top-up ballot paper.

(2) A voter marks the constituency ballot paper with—

(a) the number 1 opposite the name of the candidate who is the voter’s first preference (or, as the case may be, the only candidate for whom the voter wishes to vote),

(b) if the voter wishes, the number 2 opposite the name of the candidate who is the voter’s second preference,

and so on.

(3) The voter may mark as many preferences (up to the number of candidates) as the voter wishes.

(4) A voter marks the top-up ballot paper with a mark opposite a single political party list of candidates.’.

Amendment 207, page 5, line 13, after ‘How’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 208, page 5, line 16, leave out

‘ballot papers and so to determine which candidate is elected’

and insert

‘constituency ballot papers and so determine which constituency candidate is elected, and how top-up votes are to be counted and so determine the allocation of top-up seats to political parties.’.

Amendment 209, page 5, line 34, at end insert—

‘(5A) Top-up ballots shall be counted simultaneously’.

Amendment 210, page 5, line 36, after ‘no’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 211, page 5, line 40, after ‘each’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 212, page 5, line 42, after ‘which’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 213, page 5, line 43, after ‘rejected’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 214, page 6, line 5, after ‘each’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 215, page 6, line 7, after ‘which’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 216, page 6, line 8, after ‘the’, insert ‘constituency’.

Amendment 217, page 6, line 9, at end insert—

‘(2A) After rule 50 in that Schedule there is inserted—

“50A(1) The returning officer shall give public notice of the total number of votes given for each political party together with the number of rejected ballot papers under each head shown in the statement of rejected ballot papers and return this information to the Clerk of the Crown.

(2) The Clerk of the Crown shall determine the allocation of top-up seats in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, by applying the D’Hondt formula to the total aggregated top-up votes in each of the four parts of the United Kingdom, as declared by each and every returning officer in that part.”.’.

Amendment 221, in schedule 6, page 144, line 29, at beginning insert—

‘Constituency ballot’.

Amendment 222, page 144, line 39, at end insert—

‘Top-Up ballot

Vote for one political party only. Put no other mark on the ballot paper, or your vote may note be counted’.

Amendment 12, in clause 8, page 7, line 9, at end insert—

‘(5A) In subsection (4) the words are inserted at the end—

“and each such report shall also provide for multi-member constituencies of three members, stating the name by which they recommend that each such area should be known, and for the additional member system as provided for in the Scotland Act 1998, as close as possible to 57 per cent. to be allocated for constituency representatives and the remaining seats to be allocated for closed party lists.”.’.

Amendment 13, in clause 16, page 13, line 3, at end insert—

‘(1A) Section (The single transferable vote system: amendments) comes into force in accordance with provision made by an order under section 6(1A).’.

New clause 3—The single transferable vote system: amendments—

‘(1) Within one month of the coming into force of this section, the Minister must lay before Parliament a draft of an order amending the parliamentary elections rules as set out in Schedule 1 to the 1983 Act so as to provide for a system of a single transferable vote in multi-member constituencies.

(2) An order under subsection (1) above may make any amendments to primary or secondary legislation necessary to give effect to the use of the single transferable vote in the United Kingdom parliamentary elections.

(3) An order under subsection (1) may not be made unless a draft of the order has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.’.

New clause 4—The additional member system: amendments—

‘(1) Within one month of the coming into force of this section, the Minister must lay before Parliament a draft of an order amending the parliamentary elections rules as set out in Schedule 1 to the 1983 Act so as to provide for an additional member system.

(2) An order under subsection (1) above may make any amendments to primary or secondary legislation necessary to give effect to the use of the additional member system in United Kingdom parliamentary elections.

(3) An order under subsection (1) may not be made unless a draft of the order has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.’.

New clause 5—Counting of votes on second question of referendum—

‘(1) A voter votes by marking the ballot paper with—

(a) the number 1 opposite the name of the option that is the voter’s first preference (or, as the case may be, the only option for whom the voter wishes to vote),

(b) if the voter wishes, the number 2 opposite the name of the option that is the voter’s second preference, and so on.

(2) The voter may mark as many preferences (up to the number of options) as the voter wishes.

(3) Votes shall be allocated to options in accordance with voters’ first preferences and, if one option has more votes than the other options put together, that option is selected.

(4) If not, the options with the fewest votes is eliminated and that option’s votes shall be dealt with as follows—

(a) each vote cast by a voter who also ranked one or more of the remaining options shall be reallocated to that remaining option or (as the case may be) to the one that the voter ranked highest;

(b) any votes not reallocated shall play no further part in the counting.

(5) If after that stage of counting one option has more votes than the other remaining options put together, that option is selected.

(6) If not, the process mentioned in subsection (4) above shall be repeated as many times as necessary until one option has more votes than the other remaining options put together, and so is selected.

(7) If no option is selected at the first stage of counting, the returning officer shall, immediately after that stage, record and make publicly available the following information—

(a) the number of first-preference votes obtained by each option;

(b) which option was eliminated;

(c) the number of rejected ballot papers.

(8) Immediately after each subsequent stage of counting, except the final stage, the returning officer shall record and make publicly available the following information—

(a) the number of votes obtained by each option at that stage;

(b) which option was eliminated at that stage;

(c) the number of votes for the option eliminated at the previous stage that were not reallocated.’.

New clause 14—Counting of votes in the referendum—

‘(1) A voter votes by marking the ballot paper with—

(a) the number 1 opposite the name of the option that is the voter’s first preference (or, as the case may be, the only option for whom the voter wishes to vote),

(b) if the voter wishes, the number 2 opposite the name of the option that is the voter’s second preference, and so on.

(2) The voter may mark as many preferences (up to the number of options) as the voter wishes.

(3) This rule sets out how votes are to be counted, in one or more stages of counting, in order to give effect to the preferences marked by voters on their ballot papers and so to determine which options are selected.

(4) Votes shall be allocated to options in accordance with voters’ first preferences and, if one option has more votes that the other options put together, that option is selected.

(5) If not, the options with the fewest votes are eliminated and that option’s votes shall be dealt with as follows—

(a) each vote cast by a voter who also ranked one or more of the remaining options shall be reallocated to that remaining option or (as the case may be) to the one that the voter ranked highest;

(b) any votes not reallocated shall play no further part in the counting.

(6) If no option is selected at the first stage of counting, the returning officer shall, immediately after that stage, record and make publicly available the following information—

(a) the number of first-preference votes obtained by each option;

(b) which option was eliminated;

(c) the number of rejected ballot papers.’.

New clause 15—Commencement or repeal of amending provisions: Single transferable vote—

‘(1) The Minister must make an order bringing into force section (Single transferable vote system: amendments), Schedule (Single transferable vote system: further amendments) and Part 1 of Schedule 7 (Single transferable vote provisions) if—

(a) the answer “Single Transferable Vote” is selected in the referendum, and

(b) the draft of an Order in Council laid before Parliament under subsection (5A) of section 3 of the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (substituted by section 8(6) (below) has been submitted to Her Majesty in Council under section 4 of that Act.

(2) If the answer “Single Transferable Vote” is not selected, the Minister must make an order repealing the single transferable vote provisions.

(3) An order under subsection (1) must bring the single transferable vote provisions into force on the same day as the coming into force of the Order in Council in terms of the draft referred to in paragraph (b) of that subsection.

(4) An order under subsection (1) may make transitional or saving provision.’.

New clause 16—Single transferable vote system: amendments—

‘(1) In Schedule 1 to the 1983 Act (Parliamentary elections rules), after rule 37 there is inserted—

“How votes are to be given

37A(1) A voter votes by marking the ballot paper with—

(a) the number 1 opposite the name of the candidate who is the voter’s first preference (or, as the case may be, the only candidate for whom the voter wishes to vote),

(b) if the voter wishes, the number 2 opposite the name of the candidate who is the voter’s second preference,

and so on.

(2) The voter may mark as many preferences (up to the number of candidates) as the voter wishes.”.

(2) After rule 45 in that Schedule there is to be inserted—

“How votes are to be counted

45A(1) This rule sets out how votes are to be counted, in one or more stages of counting, in order to give effect to the preferences marked by voters on their ballot papers and so to determine which candidate is elected.

First stage

45B(1)The returning officer shall sort the valid ballot papers into parcels according to the candidates for whom first preference votes are given.

(2) The returning officer shall then—

(a) count the number of ballot papers in each parcel;

(b) credit the candidate receiving the first preference vote with one vote for each ballot paper; and

(c) record those numbers.

(3) The returning officer shall also ascertain and record the total number of valid ballot papers.

The quota

45C(1)The returning officer shall divide the total number of valid ballot papers for the constituency by a number exceeding by one the number of members to be elected at the election for that constituency.

(2) The result of the division under paragraph (1) (Ignoring any decimal places), increased by one, is the number of votes needed to secure the return of a candidate as a member (in this Schedule referred to as the ‘quota’).

Return of members of House of Commons

45D(1)Where, at any stage of the count, the number of votes for a candidate equals or exceeds the quota, the candidate is deemed to be elected.

(2) A candidate is returned as a member of the House of Commons when declared to be elected in accordance with paragraph 8(1).

Transfer of ballot papers

45E(1)Where, at the end of any stage of the count, the number of votes credited to any candidate exceeds the quota and, subject to paragraphs 5 and 8, one or more vacancies remain to be filled, the returning officer shall sort the ballot papers received by that candidate into further parcels so that they are grouped—

(a) according to the next available preference given on those papers; and

(b) where no such preference is given, as a parcel of non-transferable papers.

(2) The returning officer shall, in accordance with this paragraph and paragraph 5, transfer each parcel of ballot papers referred to in sub-paragraph (1)(a) to the continuing candidate for whom the next available preference is given on those papers and shall credit such continuing candidates with an additional number of votes calculated in accordance with sub-paragraph (3).

(3) The vote on each ballot paper is transferred under sub-paragraph (2) shall have a value (‘the transfer value’) calculated as follows—

where:

A = the value which is calculated by multiplying the surplus of the transferring candidate by the value of the ballot paper when received by that candidate; and

B = the total number of votes credited to that candidate, the calculation being made to five decimal places (any remainder being ignored).

(4) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (3)—

“transferring candidate” means the candidate from whom the ballot paper is being transferred; and

“the value of the ballot paper” means—

(e) for a ballot paper on which a first preference vote is given for the transferring candidate, one; and

(f) in all other cases, the transfer value of the ballot paper when received by the transferring candidate.

Transfer of ballot papers: supplementary provisions

45F(1) If, at the end of any stage of the count, the number of votes credited to two or more candidates exceeds the quota the returning officer shall—

(a) first sort the ballot papers of the candidate with the highest surplus; and

(b) then transfer the transferable papers of that candidate.

(2) If the surpluses determined in respect of two or more candidates are equal, the transferable papers of the candidate who had the highest number of votes at the end of the most recent preceding stage at which they had unequal numbers of votes shall be transferred first.

(3) If the numbers of votes credited to two or more candidates were equal at all stages of the count, the returning officer shall decide, by lot, which candidate’s transferable papers are to be transferred first.

Exclusion of candidates

45G(1) If one or more vacancies remain to be filled and—

(a) the returning officer has transferred all ballot papers which are required by paragraph 5 or this paragraph to be transferred; or

(b) there are no ballot papers to be transferred under paragraph 5 or this paragraph, the returning officer shall exclude from the election at that stage the candidate with the then lowest number of votes.

(2) The returning officer shall sort the ballot papers for the candidate excluded under sub-paragraph (1) of this paragraph into parcels so that they are grouped—

(a) according to the next available preference given on those papers; and

(b) where no such preference is given, as a parcel of non-transferable papers.

(3) The returning officer shall, in accordance with this article, transfer each parcel of ballot papers referred to in sub-paragraph (2)(a) to the continuing candidate for whom the next available preference is given on those papers and shall credit such continuing candidates with an additional number of votes calculated in accordance with sub-paragraph (4).

(4) The vote on each ballot paper transferred under sub-paragraph (3) shall have a transfer value of one unless the vote was transferred to the excluded candidate in which case it will have the same transfer value as when transferred to the candidate excluded under sub-paragraph (1).

(5) This paragraph is subject to paragraph 45H.

Exclusion of candidates: supplementary provisions

45H(1) If, when a candidate has to be excluded under paragraph 6—

(a) two or more candidates each have the same number of votes; and

(b) no other candidate has fewer votes, sub-paragraph (2) applies.

(2) Where this sub-paragraph applies—

(a) regard shall be had to the total number of votes credited to those candidates at the end of the most recently preceding stage of the count at which they had an unequal number of votes and the candidate with the lowest number of votes at that stage shall be excluded; and

(b) where the number of votes credited to those candidates was equal at all stages, the returning officer shall decide, by lot, which of those candidates is to be excluded.

Filling of last vacancies

45I(1)Where the number of continuing candidates is equal to the number of vacancies remaining unfilled, the continuing candidates are deemed to be elected.

(2) Where the last vacancies can be filled under this paragraph, no further transfer shall be made.

By-elections

45J(1) Where a vacancy occurs in any constituency, paragraphs (45A) to (45H) apply to the subsequent by-election.

(2) Where more than one vacancy exists in a constituency when a writ for a by-election in that constituency is moved, only one by-election is to be held for the vacant seats and this rule applies as if the number of members to be elected is the total number of seats vacant in that constituency.”.’.

New schedule 1—The single transferable vote system: further amendments—

Part 1

Amendments of the parliamentary elections rules

1 Schedule 1 to the 1983 Act (parliamentary elections rules) is amended as follows.

2 For rule 18 (poll to be taken by ballot) there is substituted—

“18 The votes at the poll shall be given by ballot in accordance with rule 37A below, the result shall be ascertained in accordance with rule 45A below and the successful candidate shall be declared to have been elected.”.

3 In rule 29 (equipment of polling stations), in paragraph (5), for the words after “the notice” there is substituted—

“Remember—use 1, 2, 3, etc... at this election—this is an election using the Single Transferrable Vote system.

Put the number 1 next to the name of the candidate who is your first choice (or your only choice, if you want to vote for only one candidate). You can also put the number 2 next to your second choice, 3 next to your third choice, and so on. You can mark as few or as many choices (up to the number of candidates) as you wish.

Do not use the same number more than once.

Put no other mark on the ballot paper, or your vote may not be counted.”.

4 In rule 44 (attendance at counting of votes), in paragraph (5), for “the candidate for whom the vote is given” there is substituted “the candidates to whom votes are allocated under rule 45A below”.

5 (1) In rule 46 (re-count), for paragraph (1) there is substituted—

“(1) At the time when any stage of the counting or re-counting of the votes is completed, a candidate or candidate’s election agent who is then present may request the returning officer to have the votes re-counted or again re-counted in respect of any or all of the stages so far completed.

(1A) The returning officer may refuse to comply with a request under paragraph (1) above if in the officer’s opinion it is unreasonable.”.

(2) In paragraph (2) of that rule, after “on the completion of” there is inserted “any stage of”.

(3) After that paragraph there is inserted—

“(3) At any time before the declaration of the result, the returning officer may, if the officer thinks fit, have the votes re-counted or again re-counted in respect of any or all of the stages.”.

6 (1) In rule 47 (rejected ballot papers), in the heading there is inserted at the end “and invalid markings”.

(2) In paragraph (1) of that rule—

(a) for sub-paragraph (b) there is substituted—

“(aa) on which the number 1 has not been marked against the name of any of the candidates, or

(b) on which the number 1 has been marked against the name of more than one candidate, or”,

(b) in sub-paragraph (d), for “void for unertainty” there is substituted “is marked in a way that does not indicate a clear choice as to the voter’s first (or only) preference”;

(c) for the words after that sub-paragraph there is substituted “shall, subject to the following provisions, be rejected as void and not counted at any stage.”.

(3) For paragraph (2) of that rule there is substituted—

“(2) A ballot paper on which a number is marked elsewhere than in a proper place shall not be deemed to be void for that reason alone.

(2A) If a ballot paper is marked with the same number (other than the number 1) against the name of more than one candidate, that number (each time it appears) and any numbers after the repeated numbers shall be ignored for the purposes of rule 45A above.

(2B) If—

(a) one or more preferences are validly marked on a ballot paper, and

(b) other marks are made on the paper which do not indicate a clear intention as to the voter’s next preference,

those other marks shall be ignored for the purposes of rule 45A above.

(2C) A ballot paper on which the voter makes any mark which—

(a) is clearly intended to indicate a particular preference for a particular candidate, but

(b) is not a number (or is a number written otherwise than as an Arabic numeral),

(2D) In paragraph (2C) above a reference to a mark includes a reference to more than one mark.

(2E) Paragraphs (2B) and 2(C) above apply only if the way the paper is marked does not itself identify the voter and it is not shown that the voter can be identified by it.”

(4) After paragraph (3) of that rule there is inserted—

“(3A) Where—

(a) any mark on a ballot paper is ignored by reason of paragraph (2A) or (2B) above, and

(b) the vote in question is not reallocated in accordance with rule 45A above, but would have been if the mark had been treated as indicating a preference for a remaining candidate,

the returning officer shall endorse the ballot paper in question with the words “not reallocated” and an indication of the stage at which the mark was ignored.

(3B) Where the returning officer endorses a ballot paper as mentioned in paragraph (3A), the officer shall add to the endoresement the words “decision objected to” if an objection is made by a counting agent to the decision.”.

(5) In paragraph (4) of that rule—

(a) for sub-paragraph (b) there is substituted—

“(aa) not marking the number 1 against the name of any of the candidates;

(b) marking the number 1 against the name of more than one candidate;”;

(b) for sub-paragraph (d) there is substituted—

(d) unmarked or marked in a way that does not indicate a clear choice as to the voter’s first (or only) preference.”.

7 (1) For rule 49 (equality of votes), and the heading, there is substituted—

“Equality of votes: which candidate to be eliminated

49(1) This rule applies to determine which candidate is eliminated under rule 45A(3) above in a case where—

(a) there are two or more candidates with fewer votes than the others but an equal number to each other, or

(b) there are three or more candidates, or remaining candidates, and they all have an equal number of votes to each other.

The candidates with an equal nunber of votes to each other are referred to in this rule as “the tied candidates”.

(2) The candidate to be eliminated where there has been a previous elimination is—

(a) whichever of the tied candidates was allocated the fewer or fewest votes in accordance with voters’ first preferences, or

(b) if that fails to resolve the tie, whichever of them had the fewer or fewest votes after the next stage of counting (if any),

and so on.

(3) Where there has been no previous elimination, or where there has been a previous elimination but the tie is not resolved under paragraph (2) above, the returning officer shall forthwith decide by lot which of the tied candidates is to be eliminated.

Equality of votes: which candidate to be elected

49A (1) This rule applies to determine which candidate is elected under rule 45A(4) or (5) above in a case where there are only two remaining candidates and they have an equal number of votes.

(2) The candidate to be elected is—

(a) whichever of the remaining candidates was allocated the more votes in accordance with voters’ first preferences, or

(b) if that fails to resolve the tie, whichever of them had the more votes after the next stage of counting (if any),

and so on.

(3) Where the tie is not resolved under paragraph (2) above, the returning officer shall forthwith decide by lot which of the remaining candidates is to be elected.”.

8 In rule 50 (declaration of result), in paragraph (1), for sub-paragraphs (a) to (c) there is substituted—

“(a) declare the number of votes obtained by each candidate (including any reallocated in accordance with rule 45A above), starting with the candidate with the fewest and proceeding in order to the candidate with the most;

(aa) declare which is the candidate who (in accordance with that rule is) elected;

(ab) declare the stage at which each eliminated candidate was eliminated and the stage at which the elected candidate was elected;

(b) return the name of the elected candidate to the Clerk of the Crown;

(c) give public notice of the name of the elected candidate, the number of rejected ballot papers under each head shown in the statement of rejected ballot papers, the number of votes allocated to each candidate in accordance with voters’ first preferences, and for each subsequent stage of counting—

(i) the name of the eliminated candidate;

(ii) the number of votes reallocated to each of the remaining candidates, and

(iii) the number of votes of the candidate eliminated at the previous stage that were not reallocated.”.

9 In rule 53 (return of forfeiture of candidate’s deposit), in paragraph (4), for the words after “is completed,” there is substituted “the number of first preference votes obtained by the candidate is found to be not more than one twentieth of the total number of first-preference votes obtained by all the candidates.”.

10 (1) In rule 61 (deceased independent candidate wins), in paragraph (1), for “the majority of votes is given to the deceased candidate” there is substituted “the deceased candidate would have been elected (in accordance with rule 45A above) had he not died”.

(2) In paragraph (2) of that rule, for sub-paragraph (a) there is substituted—

“(a) declare the number of votes obtained by each candidate (including any reallocated in accordance with rule 45A above, starting with the candidate with the fewest and proceeding in order to the candidate with the most,

(aa) declare that the deceased candidate would have been elected had he not died,”.

(3) For sub-paragraph (c) of that paragraph there is substituted—

“(c) give public notice of the number of rejected ballot papers under each head shown in the statement of rejected ballot papers, the number of votes allocated to each candidate in accordance with voters’ first preferences, and for each subsequent stage of counting—

(i) the name of the candidate eliminated,

(ii) the number of votes reallocated to each of the remaining candidates, and

(iii) the number of votes of the candidate eliminated at the previous stage that were not reallocated.”.

11 (1) For rule 62 (deceased independent candidate with equality of votes) there is substituted—

“62(1) This rule applies in relation to an election mentioned in rule 60(1) above.

(2) The reference in rule 45A(3) above to the candidate with the fewest votes, in a case where—

(a) there are two or more candidates with fewer votes than the others but an equal number to each other, and

(b) one of them is a deceased candidate,

shall be taken as a reference to the deceased candidate.

(3) The reference in rule 45A(4) or (5) above to the candidate with more votes than the other remaining candidates put together, in a case where—

(a) there are only two remaining candidates,

(b) those two candidates have an equal number of votes, and

(c) one of them is a deceased candidate,

shall be taken as a reference to the candidate other than the deceased candidate.

(4) Where paragraph (2) or (3) above applies, it applies in place of rule 49 or 49A above.”.

12 (1) The Appendix of forms is amended as follows—

(2) In the Form of Front of Ballot Paper—

(a) for “VOTE FOR ONE CANDIDATE ONLY” there is substituted—

“Put the number 1 next to the name of the candidate who is your first choice (or your only choice, if you want to vote for only one candidate).

You can also put the number 2 next to your second choice, 3 next to your third choice, and so on.

You can mark as few or as many choices (up to the number of candidates) as you wish.

Do not use the same number more than once.”.

(b) the numbers on the left-hand side are omitted, together with the vertical rule separating them from the particulars of the candidates.

(3) In the directions as to printing the ballot paper—

(a) in paragraph 2(a), for “the direction to vote for one candidate only” there is substituted “the directions beginning “Put the number 1 next to the name of the candidate who is your first choice” and ending “Do not use the same number more than once.””;

(b) in paragraph 2(b), for the words “the vertical rules separating those particulars from the numbers on the left-hand side and the spaces on the right” there is substituted “the vertical rule separating those particulars from the spaces on the right”.

(4) In the Guidance for Voters—

(a) for paragraph 1 there is substituted—

“1 When you are given a ballot paper go to one of the compartments. Put the number 1 on the ballot paper in the box to the right of the name of the candidate who is your first choice (or your only choice, if you want to vote for only one candidate).

You can also put the number 2 in the box to the right of the name of the candidate who is your second choice, the number 3 in the box to the right of the name of the candidate who is your third choice, and so on. You can mark as few or as many choices (up to the number of candidates) as you wish. Do not use the same number more than once.”,

(b) in paragraph 2, the words “Vote for one candidate only.” are repealed.

Part 2

Amendments of other provisions of the 1983 Act

13 The 1983 Act is amended as follows.

14 (1) In section 66 (requirement of secrecy), in subsection (2)(b), for “the candidate for whom any vote is given on any particular ballot paper” there is substituted “how any particular ballot paper has been marked”.

(2) In subsection (3)(b) and (c) of that section, for “the candidate for whom” there is substituted “how”.

(3) In subsection (3)(d) of that section, for “the name of the candidate for whom he has or has not” there is substituted “how he has”.

(4) In subsection (4)(d) of that section, for “the candidate for whom any vote is given on any particular ballot paper” there is substituted “how any particular ballot paper has been marked”.

(5) In subsection (5) of that section, for “the candidate for whom” there is substituted “how”.

(6) Subsections (7) and (8) of that section are repealed.

(7) The amendments made by this paragraph do not apply to a local government election (within the meaning given by section 204(1) of the 1983 Act) in Scotland.

15 In section 113 (bribery), in subsection (7)—

(a) for “this section the expression” there is substituted “this section—

(a) the expression”;

(b) at the end there is inserted—

“(b) a reference to voting or refraining from voting, in the case of a parliamentary election, includes a reference to marking or refraining from marking preferences on the ballot paper;

(c) a reference to the vote of any voter, in the case of a parliamentary election, includes a reference to the marking of a voter’s preferences on the ballot paper.”.

16 In section 114 (treating), at the end there is inserted—

“(4) Subsection (7)(b) of section 113 above has effect for the purposes of this section as it has effect for the purposes of that one.”

17 In section 115 (undue influence), at the end there is inserted—

“(3) Subsection (7)(b) of section 113 above has effect for the purposes of this section as it has effect for the purposes of that one.”.

18 (1) In section 117 (savings as to parliamentary elections), in subsection (2)(b), for “to record his vote for any particular candidate” there is substituted “to vote in any particular way”.

(2) In subsection (2)(c) of that section, for “recording his vote for any particular candidate” there is substituted “voting in any particular way”.

19 (1) In section 139 (trial of election petition), in subsection (6) the words “the parliamentary elections rules or”, in both places, are repealed.

(2) After that subsection there is inserted—

“(6A) If the petition relates to an election conducted under the parliamentary elections rules and it appears that there is an equality of votes between any candidates (a ‘tie’)—

(a) rule 49, 49A or 62 of those rules (whichever is relevant) shall apply for the purposes of the petition;

(b) where under rule 49 or 49A the tie fails to be resolved by lot—

(i) any decision made by lot by the returning officer under that rule shall, in so far as it resolves the tie, be effective also for the purposes of the petition, and

(ii) in so far as the tie is not resolved by such a decision, the court shall resolve it by lot.”.

20 In section 165 (avoidance of election for employing corrupt agent), after subsection (3) there is inserted—

“(3A) In the case of a parliamentary election—

(a) a vote shall be deemed in accordance with subsection (3) above to be thrown away only to the extent that it indicates a preference (whether a first preference or any other) for the person who was under the incapacity, and

(b) any number on the voter’s ballot paper indicating a subsequent preference shall be treated as reduced by one.”.

21 In section 166 (votes to be struck off for corrupt or illegal practices), in subsection (1), for the words from “election there shall” to the end there is substituted “election, then on a scrutiny—

(a) there shall be disregarded any preference for the candidate (whether a first preference or any other) indicated by a voter who is proved to have been so bribed, treated or unduly influenced, and

(b) any number on the voter’s ballot paper indicating a subsequent preference shall be treated as reduced by one.”.

22 In section 199B (translations etc of certain documents), in subsection (6), for the words “in the case of a parliamentary election or” in paragraph (a) there is substituted—

“in the case of a parliamentary election, must have printed the following words both at the top and immediately below the list of candidates:

“Put the number 1 next to the name of the candidate who is your first choice (or your only choice, if you want to vote for only one candidate).

You can also put the number 2 next to your second choice, 3 next to your third choice, and so on.

You can mark as few or as many choices (up to the number of candidates) as you wish.

Do not use the same number more than once.”,

(aa) in the case of”.

Part 3

Amendments of other enactments

Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (c. 41)

23 In section 3A of the 2000 Act (four Electoral Commissioners to be persons put forward by parties), in subsection (7), for “votes cast for” there is substituted “first-preference votes obtained by”.

24 In section 1 of the 1986 Act (Parliamentary constituencies) in subsection (1), for “a single member” there is substituted “no fewer than three members except for constituencies named in Schedule 2, rule 6 of this Act”’.

Amendment 224, in title, line 3, after ‘vote’, insert ‘plus’.

Amendment 35, in title, line 3, after ‘system’, insert

‘or the single transferable vote system or the additional member system’.

Amendment 139, in title, line 3, leave out

‘if a majority of those voting in the referendum are in favour of that’

and insert

‘or the single transferable vote system if either option is selected in the referendum’. ‘

Caroline Lucas Portrait Caroline Lucas
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am pleased to move the amendment that stands in my name and those of the hon. Members for Clacton (Mr Carswell) and for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell). I welcome the fact that the Committee is at long last debating the possibility of a referendum on electoral reform, but it is crucial that the public choose the voting system, not the politicians. We do not often have referendums in this country, and now that we are planning to have one, the least that we can do is give people a real choice on their ballot papers. It is hugely disappointing that AV is the only alternative to first past the post in the Bill. As a result, the Bill fails to live up to the promise of genuine reform and of re-engaging people with the political process.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Monday 13th September 2010

(13 years, 8 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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None Portrait Several hon. Members
- Hansard -

rose

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
- Hansard - -

Order. There are 15 Members in the Chamber who wish to participate in the debate. As there is no time limit on speeches, we will not be able to fit all 15 Members in unless we see a little more progress being made. This is in hon. Members’ hands, but a quick calculation shows that if each takes about 10 minutes, we might have a racing chance of fitting everyone in. I want to make that clear to everyone who wishes to speak. Otherwise, we might have to reflect on whether we need a time limit.

--- Later in debate ---
None Portrait Several hon. Members
- Hansard -

rose

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
- Hansard - -

Order. I must notify Members that, under Standing Order No. 47, I intend to impose a time limit of eight minutes on Back-Bench speeches between now and the beginning of the winding-up speeches at 9.30 pm. That will give me some chance of allowing everyone to speak.

--- Later in debate ---
Alec Shelbrooke Portrait Alec Shelbrooke
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I entirely agree. Let me add that the turnout figures for the local elections in Leeds since 2003—30%, 42%—

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker
- Hansard - -

Order. We are not discussing local elections; we are discussing fixed-term Parliaments. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is returning to that subject.

Alec Shelbrooke Portrait Alec Shelbrooke
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We are discussing the advantages of a system of fixed-term Parliaments. I am arguing that it would not only save money and increase turnouts, but allow local councils to govern for the long term in conjunction with the Government. The problem now is that councils govern for the short term because there is an election every 12 months, and are always seeking the political advantage rather than thinking about what needs to be done over the long term.

Superannuation Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Tuesday 7th September 2010

(13 years, 8 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Mary Glindon Portrait Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As a former PCS worker and someone who until April this year was earning £15,300—I worked in the Child Support Agency for 18 months—I find some of the things you are saying quite offensive. Every worker has a right to work—surely you do not make decisions about whether a husband or wife, or a partner in the household, has that right.

Furthermore, if the Bill is rejected tonight, proper consultation might be re-entered into. I took industrial action against our former Government. I voted for that action having been consulted by the union and following the procedure that the Government started with us in 2009. I e-mailed the then Minister and went through all that process. What you are saying is contradictory. You are saying that people should be consulted, but only after a decision has been made. Do you not think—

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
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Order. Address the Chair, and briefly, please.

John Hemming Portrait John Hemming
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am suggesting that the Government could try to ensure that there are not two redundancies in the same household, whatever circumstances we are in. We all accept that redundancies are going to occur in the public sector, so why cannot we try to minimise the effect on households by ensuring that both partners need not be made redundant?

Similarly, there are opportunities whereby people can transfer to the private sector. Obviously the objective is to help people to find jobs in the private sector. A severance fee, equivalent to voluntary redundancy in some senses, paid when people find a job in the private sector could be a way of reducing costs to the public sector but doing so in a way that does not make public servants suffer. At the end of the day, we should be thinking about the effect on the public servants who work hard for this country. We need to recognise that and work in partnership with them.

There are all sorts of opportunities within my own company. I have had people take sabbaticals in the past. In certain circumstances the employer will say, “We can plan for that person to go away for a year and then come back.” It suits them to do that, it has reduced the cost to the public purse, and it is in the interests of the employee. Possibilities can be considered, in partnership with the work force, that improve the situation so that everybody wins.

As a consequence of the reduction in the national cake—gross domestic product or however one wishes to see it—we face a very difficult situation that has to be dealt with. The Labour party has proposed its own version of a unilateral contract change and we have a different version, but something needs to happen. I will support the Government tonight, because I agree with the exact proposals put forward in the Bill. We need a negotiating position so that the trade unions cannot veto any changes, and I have responded clearly to my constituents by saying that I do not think the trade unions should have a veto on contractual changes. The time has hit 20 minutes past, so I shall finish by saying that I shall support Second Reading.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts
Monday 6th September 2010

(13 years, 8 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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None Portrait Several hon. Members
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rose

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
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Order. Before I call the next speaker, may I remind the House that some 74 Members wish to speak in this important debate, and that Mr Speaker has set a time limit of six minutes per speaker?