Gaza and Sudan
Debate between Baroness Royall of Blaisdon and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It would be a very good thing to get to a point where the process is embedded and the confidence is there to enable us to do that. I very much look forward to the day when these measures can be lifted, that is when we will know that there is stability in the process and confidence being built on both sides to enable us to do that.
On the African Union, yes, we do talk to its members. They attended the conference that we held, and I think that they would like to be able to do more. This is not a straightforward situation, and it is important that we stand alongside the African Union. There is something about African solutions to African problems. I would say that the situation in Sudan is a lot more than an African problem, and we need to be working very closely alongside them.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)
My Lords, I am glad that my noble friend the Minister quite rightly recognised that Sudan is not just an African problem, as it were, and I am delighted by all that she says about what our Government are doing. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, rightly says that more aid will be needed, and indeed it will. I understand that access is the issue at the moment, but I urge the Government to ensure that there is more aid in due course, especially when it comes to the 3.5 million children who are malnourished. I wonder what we can do, perhaps working with civil society—maybe it is too early in Sudan—to give hope to the young people of that country. I am really glad that the Government are working with the surrounding countries where the refugees will be fleeing to, and I just wonder what we can do to build that up. In Gaza, for example, we gave young people hope by enabling some of them to come to this country on scholarships to go to university. Is there anything similar that we could do for students in Sudan?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Those are really important questions. We will continue to protect our aid to Sudan. We have supported 2.5 million people, we are the third largest donor internationally ,and we take our responsibilities to continue that support very seriously.
On the point about civil society and local organisations, in many areas in Sudan, that is your only option. We are doing okay at that, but we need to do a lot more and to get better at it. We need to encourage international NGOs, the United Nations and others who work there to work in a similar way. It is more efficient, as you build capacity while you are doing the humanitarian work. These organisations right now can reach people who are just really hard to support in other ways.
On the issue of students, I have met students from Sudan and some women who had just completed their courses. They are incredibly frustrated: they are well educated, articulate and have an awful lot to give; they want professions and careers in Sudan and their ambition is to be able to work to reconstruct their country and rebuild their society. It is right that we do everything we can to enable them to realise that ambition.
Israel: Royal College of Defence Studies
Debate between Baroness Royall of Blaisdon and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(2 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I fundamentally disagree with politicians unilaterally declaring genocide anywhere. For genocide to mean anything, it must be protected as designated by a competent court. However much political pressure there is, or whatever our views might be, it really matters that we maintain that. As soon as you start ascribing genocide as a political act, then it becomes meaningless. We have to be very clear that that is a decision to be made by a court.
To be clear, though, this decision about the RCDS is not a reaction around international humanitarian law. It is because we are so deeply concerned; in a sense it is a diplomatic act. We hope that it is one that is noticed, and that it has some effect on the Government of Israel. We want this to result in a change of course by the Government of Israel. This is all about making sure that people in Gaza can be fed, get the medical interventions that they need and have the safety that they need. We want the hostages released immediately and we need ceasefire negotiations to resume.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)
My Lords, I support this temporary action by the Government, but would my noble friend the Minister agree that supporting such actions is absolutely not to support Hamas or to be antisemitic in any way? It is a means of putting pressure on the Israeli Government to cease their appalling actions in Gaza.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It does not believe in a two-state solution. We believe that Israel and the state of Palestine should live safely, in prosperity and security, alongside one another.