Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Baroness Royall of Blaisdon and Lord Deben

Committee stage
Friday 20th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deben (Con)]

What I am saying is very simple: the proposers of this Bill have not properly taken into account the particularities that the Welsh have put forward so nobly and well by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. I never hear from the proposers of this Bill any comprehension or understanding that some other people might have contributions to make. That is why we have had no meaningful changes to this Bill. It is a Bill which is opposed either in principle or in practice by everybody who is supposed to carry it through, and it has now caused real trouble in Wales. I am merely asking the proposers of the Bill to give this House some belief that they really are listening and are not treating our conversations as nitpicking.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to point out that my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer has in fact tabled amendments and they have not yet been debated because we have not reached them in the Marshalled List. With regard to the very interesting and important discussion about Wales, many of the facts which were quite properly given by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, are related to the devolution settlement itself. That is, quite frankly, a much wider issue than that which we are debating today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Deben (Con)]

We are not going to change the devolution settlement in this Bill—of course we are not. That is not the issue and that is not what is before us. Instead, this comes back to the Government. I entirely agree with the speech from the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, but we are supposed to rely on the Government saying that, after we pass this, they will deal with the money. That is the problem. I do not believe them. They have to tell us what the money will be and where it will come from. They have to tell the Welsh that the money going to Wales will be increased proportionately so that Wales can deal with it. Until they do that, we cannot make proper decisions. I totally agree otherwise with what the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, said.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords—

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Baroness Royall of Blaisdon and Lord Deben

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deben]

I am sorry; my noble friend misses my point. I am an agnostic on this. I am merely saying that as an agnostic listening to the debate, having listened to this debate for many years now, I think that those who defend the present system should not be allowed merely to say, like my noble friend did just then, that this is a problem, and that that is a problem. They have to explain how we can go on with the present system without the poison constantly dripping down into the system in which we live. It is rather like climate change. I never understand why I am supposed to explain that it is dangerous to put vast quantities of gases into the atmosphere. They should have to explain why it is safe to do so. That seems to me to be the right way round. I am in exactly the same position here. Those who defend the present system have got to explain why it is that we should go on with something that is clearly poisoning the body politic.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, that is an interesting idea in an interesting debate. I certainly do not defend the present system. I agree with all of the noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours, that funding causes a disconnect with the people of our country, and that we have got to do something about it. We have to lance the boil, or whatever metaphor one wants to use. People have made various suggestions, including about the cap and about other things such as those that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, talked about. It is absolutely clear that we have to find a solution. I am sure that all of us who are engaged in politics, and all of us who are here would agree, that politics is a “noble activity”, as the noble Lord said. It is a fundamental part of our democracy, and we are here to protect our democracy and to be vibrant activists.

However, it is my party’s strong view that whilst this is an interesting idea, it should not be looked at in isolation, and that what we have to do is to knock each other’s heads together, and find a solution in the round. My party—our party—wants to resume the all-party talks. It can be done; we have got to find a way through. It is not that I am being complacent. I can see that the noble Lord, Lord Marland is getting frustrated by what I am saying, but I can assure him that I spend a huge amount of my time raising funds for my party. I know how difficult it is, and I know all the problems with the media and everything else. We have to find a solution. It may well be that this is part of the solution, but it cannot be dealt with in isolation. But I am very grateful to my noble friend for raising this very interesting issue.