European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The European Union is going about this change to banking union through a treaty base that requires unanimity, so Britain has a full part in the discussions; but I do not want us to veto proposals for a banking union for the eurozone because I think the eurozone needs a banking union. We should be putting our negotiating heft, as it were, towards ensuring that those of us remaining outside the banking union have proper safeguards. Let me make one last point: I am sure that my hon. Friend knows that a lot of financial services regulation in the European Union is already done by qualified majority voting.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

If a referendum were held tomorrow, the Prime Minister would be in my camp in voting to stay in the European Union. According to one of Lord Rothermere’s organs, the Secretary of State for Education said that if there were a referendum today on whether the UK should cut its ties with Brussels, he would vote to leave. What is the Cabinet position? Is it that of the Secretary of State, who is an out-er, or that of the Prime Minister, who, like me, is an in-er?

[The Prime Minister]

I hate to disappoint the right hon. Gentleman, but we are not having an in-or-out referendum on the European Union tomorrow. I want us to achieve a new settlement between Britain—the United Kingdom—and the European Union and to put that new settlement to fresh consent. That is what should happen. I think that the idea of an in/out referendum is wrong, because I neither support the status quo nor think that leaving is the right answer.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I take seriously my hon. Friend’s point and there is some merit in that argument. We have legislated in this Parliament for a referendum lock that we very much hope will apply to future Parliaments. The problem with the approach he suggests is that the change in the eurozone and in Europe is happening so rapidly that it is quite difficult to predict in legislation passed in this Parliament the exact nature of any referendum in a future Parliament, so I do not think that is the right way ahead. As I wrote in the article in The Sunday Telegraph, I think we need to show some tactical and strategic patience, knowing that we can safeguard our existing position with the referendum lock and make the most of the changes that are happening in Europe, as I have set out.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the future referendum that the Prime Minister is now semi-pledging also cover treaty obligations relating to the European convention on human rights and the Council of Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the two issues are separate, in that there is the Council of Europe, and the European Union. There is, of course, the attempt to make the European Union a signatory to the European convention on human rights, which I have considerable difficulties with, but as things stand, the two things are separate.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that there is still something salvageable from the Doha round—all the elements of trade facilitation, such as helping to reduce customs times and charges, rather than the bigger Doha package—and I think that we should pursue that. We had a conversation at the end of the G8 in which we agreed to go away and look at our “issues paper” for the G20, and to establish whether there was a small enough distance to be closed between the EU and the US to make a deal worthwhile. I am very hopeful. Britain is one of the most open trading nations. There are real concerns on both sides—obviously there is a French position on agriculture, and an American position on many services and other issues—but I think that we will have a good look at this at the G20 and see whether we can fast-track it.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Is the Prime Minister aware that Greece spends 50% more on defence than ourselves, France or Turkey, and is the biggest arms importer in Europe? Is he aware that the Greek shipping industry, which accounts for 7% of Greek GDP, and the Greek Orthodox Church, which is the biggest land and property owner, do not pay a penny in tax? When he talks to the Greek Prime Minister, will he ask him to scale down defence spending and get the oligarchs and the Orthodox Church to pay a little bit to solve the Greek crisis?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. However much one can look at the Greek situation and feel for the people who are suffering as a result of unemployment and living standards, there is a crying need for genuine reform in Greece, and for more straightforward and honest politics when it comes to dealing with those problems. That means making sure that people do pay their taxes, and making sure that industries are competitive.

The issue of defence spending is obviously more complex because of the relationship between Greece and Turkey, but as we are now both NATO members and Turkey is an aspirant EU nation, there should be an opportunity to decrease Greek spending on national defence, while of course encouraging it to be a good NATO member at the same time.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

Let me begin, as the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) did, by paying tribute to those servicemen who have tragically lost their lives in Afghanistan: Guardsman Michael Roland of 1st Battalion the Grenadier Guards, and Corporal Andrew Roberts and Private Ratu Silibaravi of 23 Pioneer Regiment, the Royal Logistic Corps. They acted heroically and died serving their country, and we must always honour their memory.

We have just finished the longest Session of Parliament for more than 100 years, and I am proud to say that in that Session we brought down the deficit, capped welfare, scrapped ID cards, introduced free schools, accelerated academies, brought in the pupil premium, binned the jobs tax, raised the personal allowance and froze the council tax. That was just the start of clearing up the mess left by the Labour party and demonstrating that this will be a Government on the side of people who work hard and do the right thing.

Let me say something that I hope will unite hon. Members on both sides of the House. The last Session of Parliament also made an impact not just at home but around the world. We fed more than 2.5 million people facing famine and starvation, we supported over 5.5 million children to go to school in the poorest countries of our world and we immunised a child against diseases every 2.5 seconds of the last parliamentary Session. And, yes, it was in the last Session that Parliament stood up to Colonel Gaddafi, backed the action that stopped him slaughtering his own people and showed once again that when it comes to the cause of democracy, all sides of this Parliament can unite in defence of freedom.

As the Leader of the Opposition said, during the last parliamentary Session we also lost two much-respected and hard-working Members of the House. David Cairns gave up his first vocation as a Catholic priest for his second, which was to serve his constituents and sit on these Benches. He was an exceptionally kind man whose quick wit enlivened our debates, and I know that he is widely missed. Alan Keen served in this House for almost two decades and made many firm friendships on all sides of the House. He was passionate about the way in which sport can change young people’s lives, and his leadership of the all-party parliamentary football group is remembered with much affection. I am sure that he will be looking down at the incredible months of sport that lie ahead over the next few months. Both Members represented the very best of this House.

I also think that the Leader of the Opposition was right to pay tribute in his remarks to Her Majesty the Queen. It is one of the greatest privileges of this job to see Her Majesty every week to discuss what has happened here and across the world. In terms of service and dedication to our nation, she quite simply has no equal.

Let me turn now to the proposer of the Gracious Speech. When the Chief Whip phoned me and told me his suggestion for the role, it came as a bit of a shock. It was a slightly bad line, and I thought that he had said, “I’ve asked Nadine to do it.” Although I am always ready to take it on the chin, there was a slight sense of relief when he explained that he was talking about my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) rather than my hon. and close Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries).

In the past, there has been a tradition that the proposer should be a shy and retiring type—the type who keeps their head down, gets on with the job and loathes the limelight. I am pleased to say that, on this occasion, that tradition has been well and truly broken. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon told us, he has a remarkable story. In the 1970s, his family fled Iraq and the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, arriving at Heathrow with literally only the bags they carried and the clothes on their backs. But they picked themselves up and made an incredible future in this country. My hon. Friend put himself through university, built a business from scratch and in just one generation has made it here to Parliament. There is such a thing as the British dream, and he embodies it.

My hon. Friend’s name has, at times, caused confusion. As a new Member of Parliament, he was invited to a dinner in honour of a delegation from Iraq, and was seated next to my predecessor but one in Witney, the former Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd. During the main course, Lord Hurd turned to him and asked, “So, Mr Zahawi, what do you do?” My hon. Friend replied, “I’m a Member of Parliament,” to which Lord Hurd inquired, “And which constituency in Iraq do you represent?” Not surprisingly, my hon. Friend replied, “Stratford-on-Avon.” His speech was in the finest traditions of the House—witty, wise, entertaining and erudite. I praise him for what he said.

Let me turn to the seconder of the Gracious Speech. Again, when I was told the name, I was not too sure. The first things I heard were “Scottish MP” and “Gordon”—I see some nervous looks on the Opposition Front Bench, too. I refer to one of the House’s most distinguished Members, the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) who, as a Liberal Democrat, takes very seriously the motto inspired by his namesake Robert the Bruce: “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try and try again”—although as he told us in his case he has tried and succeeded in no fewer than seven general elections. He lives in a charming constituency dotted with the finest whisky distilleries. I want to be absolutely clear that when he was shadow Treasury spokesman and frequently advocated extraordinary cuts in whisky duty at each and every Budget, he was speaking wholly in the national interest.

From my researches, I can tell the Whips something else, which I hope they realise: my right hon. Friend does not always respond well when people do him a favour. He asked—and the request was granted—the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr Kennedy) to be best man at his wedding in 1998, and a year later he stood against him for leadership of the Liberal Democrat party. As the Leader of the Opposition can testify, things can get worse—you could, of course, be brothers. My right hon. Friend has been forthright in his views: he has been a powerful voice for the disabled and a passionate advocate of foreign aid. I hear absolutely what he says about a Bill for 0.7% of GDP on aid, but what I would say is that what matters most of all is that we reach the target in terms of the money spent.

Both speeches were in the very best traditions of this House, and I pay tribute to the people who gave them.

The Gracious Speech sets out our foreign policy priorities, and the first of these is, of course, Afghanistan. Let me be clear: our troops will no longer be in a combat role beyond the end of 2014. That is our deadline and I will not waver from it.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister generously rolled out the red carpet for Mr Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the candidate of his sister party in Poland who was badly defeated. In February, the Prime Minister endorsed Mr Sarkozy, who was defeated on Sunday. Will the Prime Minister, from this Dispatch Box, endorse Governor Mitt Romney—and thus ensure that the curse of Cameron gets President Obama re-elected?

[The Prime Minister]

If the right hon. Gentleman is not careful, I might endorse him. When the Conservatives take Rotherham, modernisation will be complete.

Let me tell the House that by the middle of next year British forces will have shifted their focus from combat to support in all three of the districts of Helmand for which we are responsible: Lashkar Gah, Nad Ali and Nahri Sarraj. So the Afghans will have lead responsibility for security a full year before our troops leave their combat role. When we came to that country, there was no one to hand over to—no proper army, no proper police force. Today we have built up the Afghan national security forces and we are on track and on target for them to take over full security responsibility.

From the outset, our approach has been hard-headed and strategic, overseen in detail by the new National Security Council I established on my first day in office. The role of that council is to ask which areas of the world pose the greatest threat to Britain. Just last week, we were advised that the most immediate international terrorist threat to our country now comes not from Afghanistan, but from Yemen—and that is clearly confirmed by the news from the US yesterday.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do agree with that. I believe that, as the Foreign Secretary has said, it is now a criminal regime. That is why it is so important that we gather the evidence of the war crimes, the human rights abuses and the dreadful things that are being done in Homs and elsewhere. As we collect that evidence, we need to be very careful to try to join all the dots, right up the chain of the command, to the people who run the regime. However long it takes, it is important that we are clear that there should be a day of reckoning when those who are responsible for crimes are made accountable for them.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I thank the Prime Minister for highlighting the role of Boris Tadic and of Hashim Thaci, the Prime Minister of Kosovo, in moving the western Balkans forward. I should declare an interest—I recently published a book on Kosovo, which I hope all hon. Members will read. Does the Prime Minister agree that the next step forward is for Serbia to recognise Kosovo, as 90 other UN member states have done? That decisive step would help to bring more stability, peace and co-operation and a European future to the western Balkans.

[The Prime Minister]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman has considerable expertise in this area, and I thank him for welcoming the news. We have to understand that Serbia has already taken some quite important steps forward that were difficult for it to take. I was concerned that the European Union should demonstrate its openness to the steps that President Tadic had taken, because slamming the door in his face after he had taken them could have encouraged the extremists in Serbia rather than people who want to have a peaceful European future.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

One does not need to look any further than the European Commission itself, which actually carried out an investigation into a financial transactions tax and found that it could cost 500,000 jobs in the European Union. That is why the whole idea of pursuing this at the moment is completely wrong. Of course, it would be different if the whole world was going to accept a financial transactions tax, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. That is why I do not think it is the right approach. But let us be clear: in this country, we do get our financial services to make a proper contribution. For instance, we have stamp duty on share transactions, which actually raises considerably more than the French are planning to raise with their early foray into this area.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister confirm what I think the Chancellor has said over the past couple of days, which is that when more money is required by the IMF, Britain will not fall short?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think my hon. Friend is right. Frankly, this has nothing to do with the single market; it is to do with how we run our health service. In particular, as I have said, it affects our training programmes for junior doctors, often in rural areas where we do not have such large hospitals. What can we do to sort this out? The Health and Business Secretaries are committed to revising the directive at EU level to give the NHS the flexibility it needs to deliver the best and safest service to patients. We will work urgently to bring that about.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Is the Prime Minister aware that, since I have been an MP, every single medical problem at a hospital in my constituency is related to weekend working by exhausted junior doctors. Far from being a problem, the directive is a solution: we have had far too many exhausted doctors in charge of patients.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not doubt—in fact, I do doubt what the right hon. Gentleman says. I cannot believe that every problem in his hospital is down to this one issue. All I can say is that the local hospital that serves my constituents in Chipping Norton was threatened with massive downgrading partly because, under the working time directive, it could not supply the training modules for junior doctors. That seemed a classic example of the cart being put in front of the horse. We ought to determine what hospitals we want, and then think about the training modules, but the EU working time directive was getting in the way.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. It is the case that on too many occasions under the previous Government, Britain was outnumbered, but on the issue of the rebate, it was given away for nothing in return simply because they wanted to go along with a cosy and comfortable consensus. Sometimes it is necessary to say no. In my judgment, we did not have the safeguards that we needed, so, as a result, it was right not to agree to this treaty.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Out of every European Council meeting, there are perceptions and realities. The Prime Minister did list some of the realities, but may I put it to him that the perception around the world, in not just Europe but the United States, is that we have committed a diplomatic catastrophe? The words “isolated” and “Britain” are fused. To come back from that, will he assure the House that in all future negotiations, he will take with him the Deputy Prime Minister, who, I believe, spoke for Britain?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman, like so many of those who oppose what has happened, is part of exactly the same group of people who wanted us to join the single currency in the first place. They are never prepared to recognise that there are occasions when we need to safeguard our nation’s interests and we have to be able to say no.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which is about what the British people want us to do specifically with respect to Europe. The biggest danger, they sense, is getting drawn into further bail-outs. That is why, in the treaty change that has already come forward, that was the price that we exacted—to get out of the EU bail-out fund by 2013. We have returned that power to the UK. We should also be taking action on the European budget, and we have secured agreement with some of the large countries in Europe on a real-terms freeze this year. Those priorities, plus the referendum lock, are what this Government have already been able to deliver.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister prayed in aid Margaret Thatcher, but she put her money where her mouth was in the sense that the UK contribution to the European Community went up from £656 million in 1984 to £2.54 billion in 1990—a fourfold increase. Then, it was to help Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Does the Prime Minister plan to emulate her to help Poland, Latvia and our poorer friends in the new Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman reminds us that Margaret Thatcher did indeed put her money where her mouth was. The only trouble was the next Government came along and gave it away when they gave up the rebate for absolutely nothing in return.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. If we look at the evidence, we see that some of the most troubled families in our country get a huge number of interventions from the police, social services, education and the rest of it, but no one is really getting in there to help turn those families around, change what they do and give them a better chance. So we are establishing a new unit under the leadership of Louise Casey, who I think has been a superb official over the past decade, and we are going to be putting huge resources into turning around the 120,000 most troubled families in our country. I think we can make a huge difference for those families, and we can reduce the burden that they place on the taxpayer at the same time.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister instruct our ambassador in Kiev to make representations on behalf of the Government and Parliament about the appalling show trial and prison sentence handed down to Yulia Tymoshenko, the former Prime Minister? Prime Ministers do make mistakes and lose elections, as she did, but she has been put on trial for policy decisions that she took. Will the Prime Minister make it clear—I am glad the Foreign Secretary is briefing him—that Ukraine will not be able to open membership talks with the EU, and that any hopes of liberalising visa access will go out of the window because of this disgraceful Stalinist show trial and sentence?

[The Prime Minister]

We completely agree that the treatment of Mrs Tymoshenko, whom I have met on previous occasions, is absolutely disgraceful. The Foreign Secretary has made a very strong statement about this. The Ukrainians need to know that if they leave the situation as it is, it will severely affect their relationship not only with the UK but with the European Union and NATO.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

In the interests of transparency, will the Prime Minister now publish any e-mails between Andy Coulson and the Home Office?

[The Prime Minister]

I am looking at being as transparent as I possibly can be. We have not just the Freedom of Information Act, under which people can make requests; this Government are pushing out a huge amount of data, including publication of the recent e-mails of Ed Llewellyn.

Phone Hacking

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

There is never normally any shortage of people calling for Parliament to be recalled—indeed, I remember that a recent recess had not even started when someone called for Parliament to be recalled. I may not be the first out of the traps, if I may put it that way.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s repeated emphasis on transparency. In that respect, does he think it would be useful if freedom of information legislation was extended to public and private bodies that operate fully in the public sphere, notably all the media ones?

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that that is something the inquiry can look at. I do not share Tony Blair’s regret on freedom of information; I think that it has actually been a good thing. What we are seeking here is more transparency, so that people can see who is meeting and who is doing what, rather than having to have a process of discovery. What this Government are bringing, across quite a range of areas, is that original transparency to reduce the need for often quite expensive discovery.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that my hon. Friend is entirely right. The Dublin regulation has been effective at allowing us to return people who seek asylum in this country but who have come from another European country. One of the reasons it was suggested that the Dublin regulation had to change was because of repeated court cases against the Greeks regarding their asylum policy. It seems to me that the answer is for the Greeks to sort out their asylum arrangements rather than for the rest of Europe to have to give up the Dublin regulation.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Did the Prime Minister have a chance, in the many bilateral conversations he will have had at the European Council, to discuss the Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao’s visit to Europe at the moment—currently in London? Why will not the Prime Minister mention the name of Liu Xiaobo, the Nobel peace laureate who is in the Chinese gulag? Mrs Thatcher also raised the position of Sakharov in public and said, “Get him out of the gulag.” Will the Prime Minister take the opportunity now to say, “Liu Xiaobo should be out, not in prison”?

[The Prime Minister]

That is absolutely the Government’s view. I had very good meetings with Premier Wen this morning and a lunch with him and there has never been anything in the Britain-China dialogue that is off limits, including individual cases. Nothing is off limits, but it is right to have the dialogue at both the leader-to-leader level and the human rights level. As I said, nothing is off limits and we have a very frank relationship.

Libya/European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 28th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes a good point. Not only is Turkey coming to the conference tomorrow, but the Turkish Prime Minister, Prime Minister Erdogan, is coming here on Thursday for talks at No. 10. I have also visited Turkey to see him. It was one of the first visits that I made as Prime Minister. The Turks are incredibly important members of NATO, and I believe that they should also be members of the European Union. They should be intricately involved with the operations that are being undertaken in Libya. They may well also have role as a trusted interlocutor, but right now, what they want to do is get their ships involved and get humanitarian assistance involved as well. That is hugely welcome.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I welcome the grip that the Prime Minister has on the situation, after a slightly unhappy start. When I close my eyes, I hear his predecessor but one, 10 years ago, talking about Kosovo and Sierra Leone in similar terms. On Europe, I welcome his metamorphosis into a pragmatic, fairly friendly European. Will he confirm that we will, if called upon, help our oldest ally, Portugal? When Mrs Thatcher brought the rebate back in 1984, agreed to a tripling of the EU budget, and when Labour Eurosceptics questioned her, she said, “We must help our old friend, Portugal.” Is the Prime Minister still a Thatcherite?

[The Prime Minister]

I am a great admirer and supporter of what Margaret Thatcher did for our country, and I am a great admirer of Portugal. When I talked to the Portuguese in advance of the UN Security Council resolution, they were strong supporters of that resolution and said that one of their reasons was that they wanted to be with their oldest ally. So they see the relationship in that way. On financial issues, we should not speculate about any other country’s financial situation or finances. As to what the right hon. Gentleman says about Europe, I have always believed that we should get stuck in in Europe to fight for the British interest, and that is what I do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 23rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is why we are making bold and difficult reforms in education. As we stand today, less than 50% of young people at 16 are getting grades A to C in English and maths. We must make sure that people are properly prepared for the world of work, and that is not good enough. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Education Secretary, who is setting a higher bar for himself and for the Government. We have to make sure that we get over it.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s U-turn yesterday with the announcement that the United Kingdom will now opt into the EU directive on sex slave trafficking, which many have campaigned on for six months. This is a cross-party issue which he takes seriously. Will he ask the Home Secretary, seated on his left, to look particularly at unaccompanied children arriving at the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras, as there is evidence that some of them may be trafficked? We may be able to put some block on this terrible thing with a bit of work there.

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question. He is absolutely right: this is an issue of cross-party concern. As he knows, we completely agree with what was proposed for the human trafficking directive. We decided to wait and check that it would actually be in line with what was wanted and did not have further dangers in terms of our immigration policy. I am happy to say that we will be opting into the directive, with parliamentary permission. Above all, we must ensure that our arrangements are in place to help trafficked children, including in the way he suggests.

Libya and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 28th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have never supported Colonel Gaddafi or his regime, and I think that his regime is illegitimate. Clearly that prompts the question of how long we are going to go on recognising it in any way, which is why I have requested another urgently needed piece of work. We must ensure that we do everything that we can to isolate it. We must cut off money, cut off supply and cut off oxygen from the regime, so that it falls as fast as it possibly can.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

You will recall, Mr Speaker, that 10 days ago, in an urgent question, I begged the Foreign Secretary to suspend arms sales to the region and to gear up the Foreign Office response. I am very glad that the Prime Minister has got a grip on that.

I welcomed the last part of the Prime Minister’s statement about building on what is being done to create a new approach to democracy. Would he consider creating a British foundation for democracy development? It would include businesses, non-governmental organisations, the media, judges and trade unions. Its work would be similar to the work of the know-how fund, and the work that was done to support people in eastern Europe after 1989 and in the Iberian peninsula in the 1970s. Could some development money be spent on that? If so, we would be able to create something that could help everyone in the future rather than recriminating about the past.

[The Prime Minister]

I am not always in complete agreement with the right hon. Gentleman, but this is one such occasion. I very much support the whole idea of greater party-to-party contacts and political contacts, and building up what I call the building blocks of democracy in terms of civil society and political parties. This is an area in which Britain has expertise and excellence. We have the Westminster Foundation for Democracy, of course, so we need to ask whether there is more we can do with that, or whether we need to build a new mechanism. I am, however, glad to see cross-party support for something that Britain could play a unique part in helping to build.

EU Council and North Africa

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady makes a good point about civil society organisations here that can work with civil society organisations in Egypt. The point that I would make about transition starting now is that precisely because the Egyptians say that there are all sorts of problems with amending their constitution and doing it quickly, they should be examining what they can do to build confidence among people on the streets of Cairo that they are genuinely changing. That is where I think considering including Opposition members in a transitional Government and giving some visible, clear and irreversible signs of what their intentions are would make a big difference.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I think we heard two statements today, and they should have been separated. On al-Megrahi, does the Prime Minister recall that many of us had to hold our nose as IRA killers and terrorists were let out for the greater good of peace and stability? On his statement, can he say something about Tunisia? That is a small country, with only 10 million people, secular, highly educated, looking to Europe for help. May I ask him to ask the Foreign Office—he will probably be knocking at an open door—to see what we can do with economic and political investment in Tunisia to bring it, particularly as it is much smaller and more manageable than Egypt, closer to Europe?

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 20th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right that we should push for progress with Turkish accession—and we are. I raised this with the Hungarian Prime Minister when he came to Downing street last week, because Hungary is going to hold the future presidency of the European Union. We have to win the argument in Europe—too many are opposed to Turkish membership. I think that all the arguments are in favour and that we should push this as hard as we can and keep opening those chapters to show that we are doing so in good faith.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Before the Prime Minister boasts so much about freezing the budget, he might reflect on the fact that although that will save the British rebate, it means the common agricultural policy will not be reformed for several years. It also means that there will be no money for our new partners in east Europe. From Margaret Thatcher to Tony Blair, British leadership was based on acts of solidarity with poor, incoming members of the EU. The Prime Minister is the first one to sign up to the Sarkozy-Merkel agenda of being as mean as possible to our new friends and allies in east Europe.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not accept that the only way we can make progress with helping partners in eastern Europe is by having an ever-rising EU budget. Indeed, there are countries in eastern Europe that support the position we take that the budget should not go up and that we should spend the money better. As I have argued before, we should be making more progress on transparency and using it as a weapon to shine a light on the EU budget and some of the disastrous ways in which it is spent. It is an absolute counsel of despair to say that the only way we can help other countries in Europe is with an ever-rising budget: it is not.

G20 Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 15th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend asks an important question. The issue of Ireland was not specifically discussed at the G20. A statement was issued by a number of European Finance Ministers, including my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, about the mechanism that will be put in place in the eurozone, because there was a concern that what had been thought about was having a negative impact on Ireland. Obviously, eurozone and European Prime Ministers and Finance Ministers at these gatherings always meet and discuss the health of the European economy and the eurozone. I do not want to speculate about another country’s finances. I recognise that the Irish are taking very difficult action to try to get their own fiscal situation under control. Like the United Kingdom, they obviously have very large banks that have got themselves into difficulty and that have to be managed out of the process. We very much hope that all that will take place.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s warm words on the release of Aung San Suu Kyi, but, a little to the north and east, in China, a fellow Nobel peace laureate, Liu Xiaobo, is rotting in a communist prison. Why did not the Prime Minister have the guts to mention his name and call for his release in public?

[The Prime Minister]

What I did, which was the right thing to do, was to have a very frank exchange about human rights with the Chinese in the meetings that we had, and I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that nothing and no one was off the agenda.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

If there were any prospect of a passage of power from Britain to Brussels, we should have a referendum. That is not just my word: we are going to legislate to put it into place. But the question that we must answer here—this goes directly to what my right hon. Friend has said—is, “What is it in Britain’s national interest to try to insist on at this time?” In my view it is the budget, and the amount of money that goes from Britain to Brussels, into which we should be putting our efforts. That is what I did, and that is what I am going to go on doing.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

May I welcome the Prime Minister to the club of Euro-pragmatism? He has said nothing today with which I can greatly disagree. Will he answer two questions, however? First, will he confirm that if the final budget deal is above 2.9%, Britain will not seek to veto it? Secondly, will the proposed treaty change happen under the so-called passerelle clause of the Lisbon treaty?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his endorsement—wherever they come from, they are always welcome. The point about the budget approach is that 13 countries have put their signature to a letter saying they will not accept anything over 2.9%. They will, I believe, all stick to their word, and we will insist on this so that we either get 2.9%, agreed between Parliament and the Council, or we get deadlock, in which case the budget is frozen at last year’s level.

The final decisions on the proposed treaty change will be taken at the December summit. That is likely to be under the simplified revision procedure so there is not a parliamentary convention. The key point here is to be absolutely clear that this is going to be a few lines that are about putting in place what is a temporary bail-out mechanism and making it a permanent bail-out mechanism. The key point for the House to hold on to is that this does not affect the UK, except inasmuch as we want the eurozone to sort itself out.

Treatment of Detainees

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point on behalf of her constituents. As I said in my statement, there will be opportunities for public evidence to be given to the inquiry, including from those who are making allegations against UK personnel. It is important that that is available, but as I said, a lot of this inquiry will not be held in public, because of the nature of what it is investigating.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister and wish him well with the inquiry. I think that it is the fifth to have been set up since 9/11 and Iraq. If this one can bring some closure and draw a line, we would all be a lot happier. He made a point about mediation. Could part of that process involve encouraging certain gentlemen not to go out around the country supporting Islamists and jihadi principles and practices? That is a real problem. If they are free in our country, it is better that they do not encourage others to do things that are not very helpful.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman and I would probably agree on the need to confront and defeat those who put forward extremist Islamist arguments. That is something that we have to do for the good of our country and for the good of the world. He asked whether an inquiry could draw a line under all this. All I would say is that I do not think there has yet been a proper attempt to look systematically at the set of allegations about whether British personnel were in any way complicit because of the things that they witnessed or were involved in. That has not been done, and it needs to be done. I would ask people who disagree: what is the alternative? Do we really want to let the civil cases roll on year after year, and have the people in our security services jammed up with paperwork trying to fight them? It is much better to clear them away and get to the bottom of this, to ensure that those people can get on with the job that they do so well.

G8 and G20 Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

On the issue of the Ministers resigning from President Karzai’s Government, he has put in place quite talented replacements. On the issue of Stanley McChrystal, he is a very talented general who we believe had delivered the right strategy. I was consulted on the issue twice by President Obama, but in the end it was about what General McChrystal had said about the US Administration in the interview in Rolling Stone magazine, so it was an issue between the US Administration and Stanley McChrystal, rather than necessarily a matter for me.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has had three international outings and he has acquitted himself very well; it would be churlish not to acknowledge that. Ahead of them, he wrote in the Financial Times on 17 June:

“It is shocking that…women still do not have equal rights in the workplace. This is not just unfair; it makes no sense—because it deprives our economies of their full potential as workers and consumers.”

Will he therefore agree, in this spirit of bipartisanship, that having the gender pay audits that have been suggested in both the public and private sectors would be a way of getting rid of that huge problem?

[The Prime Minister]

We have supported—and, indeed, before the election we put forward a case for—gender pay audits, particularly based on those companies where any unfairness is found. The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point, quoting from my FT article, which is that that is one of the structural reforms that we in the west in the developed world should be carrying out in order to increase our growth rates, and as the right hon. Gentleman is being so friendly, I shall have to take away his thoughts and think about them again.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is right. It should be a focus on national security and when we can safely leave the job of securing Afghanistan to Afghan forces. That is not about numbers; it is about capability and he is right to measure it in that way.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On 26 May, during the Queen’s Speech debate, I said:

“It is time to assert the principle that war is too important a matter to be left to generals. We need to assert the authority of this House and the authority of a politically elected Government over the lack of strategy in Afghanistan.”—[Official Report, 26 May 2010; Vol. 510, c. 246.]

Therefore, I welcome the Prime Minister’s keen interest. We have had too much of this war dictated by the red tops, with their jingoism, and the red tabs, with the generals’ priorities before those of the nation. I wish the Prime Minister well in what is clearly a change of strategy, with a politically elected Government in charge.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman. I was once told that the first sign of madness is to read out one’s own speeches, but I agree very much with a lot of what he said. It is important that the military feel that they can give unvarnished, clear advice to Ministers, but it is also important that Ministers test, probe and challenge that advice. That is how policy should be developed, and that is how it should be done in future.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 25th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Perhaps I could remind the hon. Gentleman of two important points. First, in its manifesto, the Labour party supported fixed-term Parliaments. Secondly, in order to entrench fixed-term Parliaments in Scotland, almost every Member opposite who was there at the time voted for a 66%, rather than a 55%, threshold. Let me give a little warning: I can tell you, having sat on the Opposition Benches for the past nine years, that opportunism does not work. [Interruption.] It did not take them very long! The context of our Government is an appalling legacy left by Labour. I shall quote in full the letter left to his successor by the former Chief Secretary, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne):

“Chief Secretary, I’m afraid there is no money. Kind regards and good luck.”

Those 13 words sum up 13 years of complete cavalier arrogance with the taxpayers’ money.

This Queen’s Speech, put forward by this new Government, is the first step towards putting things right. This country will get the complete opposite of what went before—not spending money for the sake of it, but spending it wisely and saving it; not top-down control and big government, but bottom-up change and the big society; not power for politicians, but power to the people.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister remain in an alliance in Europe with parties that his Deputy Prime Minister described as “nutters” and “anti-Semites”?

[The Prime Minister]

The answer is yes, but I have been waiting for this question. For five years, I sat listening to all the right hon. Gentleman’s questions to the former Labour Prime Ministers on this issue, and never once was I able to remind him of some of the people his party sits with in the European Parliament, so I hope the House will indulge me. Labour is allied to the Lithuanian Social Democratic party, one of whose MPs said:

“As a doctor, I think that”

homosexuality “is a disease”.

I think that is a disgusting point of view. And that is who you sit with; that is who the right hon. Gentleman sits with.