European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have already returned a power to Britain by getting out of the bail-out fund. We have returned 100 specific powers as a result of the opt-out on justice and home affairs. I have been very specific that when it comes to the free movement of people, and particularly its interaction with our welfare system, we need powers to be returned to this country. Specifically, I have said that people coming from European Union countries to Britain should not be allowed to claim unemployment benefit, that they should have to leave after six months if they do not have a job, that they should have to pay in for four years before getting anything out of the tax credits system and that they should not be able to send child benefit or other child tax payments to families back home. Those things require serious change in Europe, including treaty change, and that is what we will secure, and what a contrast with the Labour party, which will do absolutely zip.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Ind)]

May I add my own congratulations to Mr Natzler as Clerk, and say how pleased I am personally that the cross-party process of the Governance Committee has led to one of many important decisions that have been made following it?

When the Prime Minister speaks to Mr Netanyahu this evening, will he underline two things—first, that in respect of the negotiations with Iran, a deal which is acceptable and honourable on both sides is more likely to help guarantee Israel’s security, as well as that of others, than no deal at all? Secondly, will he emphasise to Mr Netanyahu that what his party and Government have been involved in is trying to change the reality on the ground through settlement building, so that if it goes on, it will be impossible for there to be a separate state of Palestine, and that if he carries on like this, the patience of this House and of Europe will run out?

Murder of Lee Rigby

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend puts the matter into clear perspective. Once it has been discovered on someone’s e-mail account that they are planning or plotting a terrorist outrage, it is hard to think of any justification for not passing that on to the authorities. That is exactly what my right hon. and learned Friend’s Committee finds:

“the companies should accept they have a responsibility to notify the relevant authorities when an automatic trigger indicating terrorism is activated, and allow the authorities, whether US or UK, to take the next step.”

That is absolutely right and I hope that this will trigger a debate among the internet companies themselves about the action that needs to be taken.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

First, I commend the Intelligence and Security Committee report, as the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have done. I also echo what the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have said about the extreme difficulties that the intelligence and police services face when there is an expectation of success in respect of every investigation. These agencies, and the police, have people who are very highly skilled and dedicated and who are working very long hours—but, with the best will in the world, they are human. There will be some cases where the terrorists escape detection and there will therefore be terrorist outrages, as there have been in previous terrorist campaigns.

Lastly, may I press the Prime Minister again on the issue of the United States-based internet companies and ask him to take it up with the US at the highest level? Is there not a cultural problem among the leadership of some of these companies, which have a distorted “libertarian” ideology and believe that somehow that allows them to be wholly detached from responsibility to Governments and to the peoples whom we democratically represent in this country and abroad?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with everything that the right hon. Gentleman has said. First, on the work done by MI5 and our agencies, I will repeat the quote from the director general of MI5 that says it all:

“We are not an army that has battalions waiting in barracks for deployment. We are fully deployed all the time so the only way to go on high priority cases is to stop low ones.”

That gives a sense of the pressure that, inevitably, organisations such as this are under; they are trying all the time to think of how they best triage these cases and make sure that they have the maximum input into the most dangerous cases.

The second point that the right hon. Gentleman made was about taking up personally with the US the engagement on the importance of communications data. I can guarantee absolutely that that happens at every level, including with the President. It is a shared challenge for both of us to get this right. We are very clear: wherever these companies are headquartered, if they provide services in the UK they should be subject to UK law. The point he makes with respect to the companies is absolutely right. Of course they worry about their public image in terms of wanting to be in favour of data security, and one can understand that. But they also need to worry about their public image if they are being used by terrorists to plot attacks and they have information about those attacks that they do not pass on. We need to make that point tell in the conversations to come.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What I would say is that we have one of the top five defence budgets anywhere in the world. We spend more than £30 billion on defence and people know that we have hugely capable armed forces. Because of the difficult decisions we have made, we will see a drumbeat of new destroyers, new frigates, new aircraft carriers and new fighter jets coming off the production lines, so we are in a very strong position.

But I do not actually believe that the solution to Ukraine is a military solution. Of course it is right that NATO is helping to strengthen Ukraine’s defence infrastructure, as we agreed in Cardiff, but crucially what is required is a political settlement that respects the independence of Ukraine. What President Putin will respect is a unity of purpose on behalf of European countries and the United States to maintain the pressure and the sanctions until he changes his behaviour.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

On the crucial issue of tax avoidance, could the Prime Minister say whether he is satisfied with the attitude and progress being made by Mr Juncker in respect of the scandalous behaviour by Luxembourg when he was its Prime Minister?

[The Prime Minister]

I am satisfied that every country in the European Union has signed up to the automatic exchange of tax information. For many years, it was not only Luxembourg but one or two other countries in the EU that did not sign up to that. We are making progress, but I will never be fully satisfied, because until every jurisdiction in the world signs up we will not be able to get rid of tax avoidance.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. For those of us who want to argue that the European Union is capable of reform, this was not a good development. It is important to understand that these are provisional estimates and that EUROSTAT is still travelling to every country to work out what the numbers actually are. There are important challenges to be made. But clearly the idea of a bill being presented in that way, with so little time to pay, is not acceptable.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

On migration from the European Union, may I ask the Prime Minister to name five towns which, in his view, have been swamped by it?

[The Prime Minister]

I would say to the right hon. Gentleman, for whom I have a huge amount of respect, that, to be fair to the Secretary of State for Defence, he corrected himself this morning, and I think he was absolutely right. It is right for politicians to raise concerns about immigration, but we should always choose our language carefully. He said this morning that he wished he had chosen his language in a different way, and I agree with that.

NATO Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 8th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks and I can absolutely give him that assurance. It was important that one of the first things that needed to happen at the conference was for NATO to be very clear about the article 5 commitment that all members of NATO are subject to collective defence, Estonia included. It is important that that message goes out and that we should not only have the readiness action plan and the new spearhead force but start to see more NATO exercises, so that when Russians look at Estonia—or Latvia or Lithuania—they see different nationalities involved in their defence, not just Estonians. That is vital and yes, it is a red line.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I thank the Prime Minister and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition for their generous tributes to our north-west colleague and friend, Jim Dobbin? I know that they will be much appreciated.

I want to ask the Prime Minister about the searing divisions that are now opening up within the Gulf Co-operation Council, with allegations by some states in the GCC that others, including Qatar and to a lesser degree Kuwait, are harbouring people, sometimes quite senior, who are helping to finance and give other support to the Islamist extremists in Iraq and elsewhere. What representations are the Prime Minister and others making to the Governments of those states to ensure that if such activities are taking place—there is high suspicion that they are—they should stop?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes the important point that, on occasions, there have been concerns that some Gulf states have supported players—whether in Syria, Libya or elsewhere—with extremist views. We have repeatedly said how unwise we think that is. There are discussions between those Gulf states but, as I have said many times with respect to our domestic arrangements, Britain is clear that we need to oppose not only violent extremists, but the extremist narrative.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I always listen very carefully to the Father of the House but on this occasion I am not sure I agree with him. I would argue that the rise of Islamic State—of ISIS—has had two principal causes: one is the brutality that Assad has shown to his own people, and the second is the failure of the Government in Iraq to represent all of its people. We need to recognise that it is those two issues that have been the principal cause of this problem, together with, as I have said, the real problem, which is the Islamist extremist narrative that finds any broken state, any source of conflict, any sign of weakness, and exploits it.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

In an article that the Prime Minister wrote in The Daily Telegraph on 16 August, he spoke about the need to build alliances in the region, including, he said, perhaps even with Iran. Does he agree that, yes, while there is a negotiation to be had with Iran over the nuclear dossier, frankly, as he indicated, we need Iranian co-operation more than ever, as it is one of the few stable states in the region? Given that, could he say therefore what action he is taking to lead the full establishment of diplomatic relations with Iran, because the embassies have still not been fully reopened?

[The Prime Minister]

I greatly respect the right hon. Gentleman, and I know he has considerable experience of dealing with Iran, not least from when he was Foreign Secretary. As I have said here before, we are cautiously re-engaging with Iran—he knows about the steps already taken—and that will lead over time, I am sure, to the reopening of embassies and all the rest of it, but we should do so very cautiously, knowing Iran’s history and what it has done, including support for terrorist organisations. Clearly, what is most required in Iraq is an Iraqi Government who represent all of its people, and those that have been most excluded recently have been the Sunni population, but we need, of course, the assistance of Iraq and other countries in making sure this comes about.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for the warm welcome that he and people in Harrogate gave me during the stage of the Tour de France, marred only by Mark Cavendish’s tragic accident. It was an extraordinary event and showed his constituency and the whole of Yorkshire in their best light. He is quite right about the importance of superfast broadband. We are putting £790 million into superfast broadband access. We have half a million UK premises connected already and around 400,000 new premises are being upgraded every week. Everyone in the House has a duty to get out there to help to advertise what is happening with broadband and to encourage take-up rates.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

It is fundamental, is it not, that the holder of the office of Attorney-General should be fiercely independent, defend the rule of law and be ready to speak legal truth to power. Given the distinction and respect with which the holder of that office pursued that role, what possessed the Prime Minister to dismiss him yesterday?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman that it is vitally important that the Attorney-General gives unvarnished, independent advice, and is the Government’s legal adviser. But I also believe that, in government, when someone has served extremely well for four years, there are often times when it is right to bring on new talent and to make the most of all the talent in one’s party. That is the approach that I take as Prime Minister, and I explain that very clearly to my team.

G7

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising this issue. I raised it specifically at the G7 because I am very concerned that we signed the agreement at Lough Erne about not paying ransoms for terrorist kidnap, yet there are terrorist kidnaps taking place in our world and it is—how can I put it politely?—far from clear that some countries are not allowing, or even enabling, ransoms to be paid: ransoms that then go into the hands of very dangerous terrorist groups and fund weapons and explosives that could well be used in our countries back home. I raised this issue very forcefully, as did President Obama. It is very important that we do all we can to help to release those who are held, but paying ransoms for terrorist kidnaps is totally self-defeating—it makes the terrorists stronger and increases the chances of further kidnaps in future.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I first endorse what the Prime Minister and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition said about the presidency of the EU? I remind the House that it is not long since the German press themselves were very heavily critical of Mr Juncker for “running a tax haven” and, indeed, for his behaviour on some late evenings. OECD projections suggest that in 11 years the BRICs—Brazil, Russia, India and China—might overtake the G7 in terms of aggregate GDP, and we are already seeing a parting of the ways in terms of international cohesion. How far are the strategic implications of that change in economic power being considered by the G7?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. The reason I believe the G7 is going to have continued relevance in the years ahead is that it is a chance for some of the world’s biggest democracies, and largest economies, who are like-minded to have a very frank and open conversation. It is much less about communiqués and reading out speeches and more about a discussion about how we approach really complicated and difficult issues, whether it is the rise of Islamist extremism or how to make sure that our relations with China work in our mutual interest, and so on. I hope that we can keep going with these meetings. The G20 is able to address the broader world economy and to bring together the BRIC countries with some of the older western democracies.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend speaks with great force and a huge amount of wisdom on this issue, but I think it is too early for the history books to be written. What really matters is that the countries of the European Union, the United States and the international organisations, such as the UN, recognise that we need a long-term approach. When the history books are written, I hope they will show that Europe decided to become more energy independent, that the UN stood up for the importance of its charter and that Britain, America and our allies took a series of predictable and consistent steps to demonstrate to Russia that what she was doing was wrong. If we take a long-term approach, I think we will achieve an outcome that the history books might be kinder about.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I commend the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary’s strategy. In the absence of sending gunboats, which I think few of us would recommend, a step-by-step, long-term approach is sensible. Ukraine is one of the very few countries in the world that voluntarily gave up nuclear weapons on its soil, and it did so in return for clear guarantees of its territorial integrity, including from Russia. Given the talks on nuclear security that he has been involved in, can he say what further steps need to be taken to ensure that Russia’s invasion of Crimea does not undermine the international strategy to reduce nuclear proliferation?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman, who served as Foreign Secretary, makes a very good point. There was never an option of sending gunboats. There is not some military answer to this. The only approach is a considered, long-term, tough and predictable one so that Russia knows that if it goes further into eastern Ukraine there will be very significant economic consequences. He makes an important point about countries that have given up their nuclear weapons not fearing that they have made the wrong decision, because there were countries, such as Kazakhstan, represented at the conference in The Hague which made the point that they had taken those steps too. That only serves to underline the importance of taking a long-term and tough approach to Russia on this.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

To answer the Father of the House directly, the difference between the Scottish referendum and the one in Crimea is that the Scottish referendum is legal. It was discussed and debated in this House and in the Scottish Parliament, and we went a long way to put in place arrangements that I have described as not only decisive and fair but legal. The difference between those arrangements and the Crimean referendum is that the Crimean referendum is illegitimate and illegal under the Ukrainian constitution. That is not to say that the people of Ukraine or of Crimea cannot, over time, find a way of expressing their own preferences. That is what we have done in Scotland, and of course they can do it there too, but the way in which this referendum has come about is clearly illegitimate and illegal; that is the difference.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Against the background of thugs in Crimea blocking the admission of OSCE monitors into Crimea, what does the Prime Minister think of Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov’s claim last week that one of the ways of resolving the matter peacefully is by using the OSCE?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman, who served as Foreign Secretary, speaks with great knowledge. The fact is that a number of things our Russian interlocutors have said have turned out simply not to be true. We have to be very clear in challenging them on that. Of course Russia has an interest in having a strong and positive relationship with Ukraine, which we understand and welcome, but in these circumstances some of the things that have been said about what is happening on the ground, the consequences that would follow certain actions, and indeed the point he has just made, show that they have not been entirely straightforward with us.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend has a very strong track record of campaigning and fighting on these issues—he co-founded the Million Jobs campaign. Let us recognise that we have created more than 1 million new jobs under this Government. One of the things my hon. Friend was pushing for was for under-21s not to have to pay national insurance contributions when they are employed; that was brought in in the autumn statement, and I think it will make a huge difference. The Braintree youth jobs fair has also made a big difference locally. Opposition Members seem to groan as soon as falling unemployment is mentioned, but the fact is that it is falling across the country and that is a very welcome sign that our long-term economic plan is working.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister share my astonishment at a decision announced yesterday that First TransPennine Express, whose train services cover the whole of the north of England, is to lose one in eight of its trains, which are to be transferred to Chiltern Railways for the greater comfort and convenience of commuters in the south of England? [Interruption.] Is he aware that First TransPennine Express services are already among the most overcrowded in the country? [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have managed to catch only a small amount of that programme, but I think that it brings home two vital points: first, we need a welfare system that is tailored to ensure that work always pays; and secondly, many people in our country have multiple disadvantages and problems and so need help to get out of poverty and benefit dependency. So it is not just about tailoring a benefit system to make work pay; it is about making sure that we intervene in people’s lives and try to correct the things that are keeping them out of work and out of earning a decent living.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I say to the Prime Minister, as someone who strongly supports shale gas extraction by fracking, that his current package, however well intentioned, will not assuage local communities, which on a cross-party basis in Lancashire have treated his latest offers as near derisory? Why can he and the Chancellor not sit down with the cross-party Local Government Association and negotiate on its proposal for 10% of revenues to be shared with local communities, as happens in other countries?

[The Prime Minister]

I thought that the proposal from some Members was that it should be 10% of profits. My point is that 1% of revenues, which obviously start running the moment shale gas starts coming out of the ground, could well be a better offer. I am very happy to sit down with anybody to discuss the issue, because I think that shale is so important for the future of our country. The point I would make, having been on Monday to see the oil platforms that are already on the Nottinghamshire-Lincolnshire border, is that those went ahead without any of the sorts of community benefits that we are promising with shale: £100,000 when a well is dug, before any gas has reached the surface; 1% of revenues, which could be between £7 million and £10 million for a typical fracking well; and 100% retention of business rates, which for a set of wells could be £1.7 million, or even £2 million, for a local authority. Hon. Members should think about how much council tax a small district or metropolitan authority raises and consider the difference that £1.7 million or £2 million in revenue could make. By all means let us talk about the facts and figures and what we can do, but we also need to persuade people that this can go ahead without the environmental damage or the problems that people are worried about. Those are the concerns more than anything.

Commonwealth Meeting and the Philippines

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I press the Prime Minister on the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd)? She asked him whether undertakings were given that there would be no harassment of those he met and had dealings with in the north. Re-housing is one thing, and it is important, but I would be very grateful if he expanded on that.

[The Prime Minister]

The point I was trying to make was that although undertakings that those people should not be harmed were vital, their cases should also be taken up by the Sri Lankan Government. The response of the Sri Lankan Government to such issues is not to say that such people do not exist or that there is nothing that can be done. They are saying, “Please give us time. We are dealing with this.” It is right for the international community to press them on these issues. Yes, there were many more internally displaced people four years ago, but there are still too many today and they need to be properly looked after.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 28th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

There was no specific discussion about energy prices, but one of the proposals of the business taskforce report is to ensure that we do not add to the cost of, for instance, shale gas extraction. That was very much welcomed by other member states. We need to consider how regulations add to the costs for energy consumers.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s efforts in respect of deregulation. May I ask him to pay particular attention to the REACH—registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals—regulation? As I have explained to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, that regulation is likely to have a deleterious effect on one company in my constituency, which does not wish to be named for obvious reasons. We all support health and safety measures in respect of chemicals, but will he look at the over-elaborate enforcement of the regulation, which is unnecessary and could do gratuitous damage to companies in this country?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. That issue is covered in the excellent document by the business taskforce.

May I take this opportunity to say how much the right hon. Gentleman will be missed in Parliament by Members on both sides of the House? I worry that if he retires to his house in my constituency, he might be a rather frequent correspondent when he has so much time on his hands. However, his contributions are always welcome.

G20

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right to raise this point. When you visit one of the refugee camps, as I have, in Jordan and see the children being taught in enormous temporary classrooms under canvas in tents, you realise that their whole childhood, in some cases, will be spent in these camps. We have to alleviate their suffering and we have to help them, but above all we need a political solution as well.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I ask the Prime Minister about the tax and transparency conclusions of the G20? They are welcome, but does he agree that so long as Austria and Luxembourg refuse even to sign up to the EU tax guidelines, the work of the G20, welcome as it is, will be undermined from within the EU itself?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. For many years, Luxembourg and Austria have held up progress on this issue. They have often tried to get round that by pointing to the overseas territories and Crown dependencies of the UK, which have now put their house in order, so we can turn back to Austria and Luxembourg. They are under a huge amount of pressure, because the agenda of tax and transparency is growing fast. They have made some moves in the European Union, but we need to do more.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly look at the proposal my hon. Friend makes. I know that he wants Shrewsbury to be a connected hub in our country, and he puts that case regularly. The good news about this economic recovery, early days though it is, is that we are seeing it through more people in work. There are 935,000 more people employed than there were when this Government came to office and 1.3 million more private sector jobs, and we need to see further progress on that, because the best route out of poverty and the best way to improve living standards in our country is to see an increasing number of our men and women in gainful work.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I press the Prime Minister on the issue of relations with Iran? With respect to him, his previous answer sounded as if he had taken no account of the fact that since our embassy was outrageously sacked by Ahmadinejad and his thugs, there has been an election in Iran, however imperfect, that has led to a different individual becoming President, Hassan Rouhani, who to my certain knowledge is someone the west and the British Prime Minister can deal with. May I ask him to look very carefully, with the Foreign Secretary, at how we can take steps now to improve relations with Iran, identify matters of common interest and try to get it involved in solving Syria?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree that the election of a President who has a greater commitment to reform is a positive step, and I have written to President Rouhani to raise a series of issues that need to be settled between Britain and Iran. Above all, we need to see progress on what President Rouhani himself has said is important, which is trying to come to an agreement whereby Iran gives up the idea of nuclear weapons and in return we see some relief on sanctions. That would be major progress, but we should not just do that from a position of hoping for the best. We have seen what Iran has been capable of in the recent past, so we should go into such discussions very cautiously.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. I am fully aware of the deep public scepticism and war-weariness in our country, linked to the difficult economic times people have had to deal with, and that they are asking why Britain has to do so much in the world. I totally understand that, and we should reassure our constituents that this is about chemical weapons, not intervention or getting involved in another middle eastern war.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister give way?

[The Prime Minister]

I give way to the former Home Secretary.

[Hon. Members]

And former Foreign Secretary, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice.

[Mr Straw]

And Member of Parliament for Blackburn.

The Prime Minister said a moment ago, within the hearing of the House, that one of the purposes of any action would be the “degrading” of the Assad regime’s chemical weapons capability. In a letter that General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sent to Carl Levin, of the United States Congress, a couple of months ago, he spelt it out that fully to do that would involve hundreds of ships and aircraft and thousands of ground troops, at a cost of $1 billion a month. Given that the Prime Minister is not proposing that, could he say what his objective would be in degrading the chemical weapons capability?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, the right hon. Gentleman has had many jobs—Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and so on—so perhaps I should just refer to him as “my constituent”. That is probably safer.

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point, however. I think that the Dempsey letter was addressing the point that if we wanted entirely to dismantle, or to attempt to dismantle, Syria’s weapons arsenal, that would be an enormous undertaking which would involve ground troops and all sorts of things, but that is not what is being proposed; the proposal, were we to take part, would be to attempt to deter and degrade the future use of chemical weapons. That is very different. I do not want to set out at the Dispatch Box a list of targets, but it is perfectly simple and straightforward to think of actions that we could take relating to the command and control of the use of chemical weapons, and the people and buildings involved, that would indeed deter and degrade. Hon. Members will ask this point in several different ways: how can we be certain that any action will work and would not have to be repeated? Frankly, these are judgment issues, and the only firm judgment I think we can all come to is that if nothing is done, we are more likely to see more chemical weapons used.

EU Council and Woolwich

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 3rd June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I always listen carefully to my right hon. Friend. I would just make two points. The first is that when I see the official Syrian opposition, I do not see purely a religious grouping; I see a group of people who have declared that they are in favour of democracy, human rights and a future for minorities, including Christians, in Syria. That is the fact of the matter. Secondly, of course the Russians have long supported the regime, but they can see the damage that is being done to Syria and to their reputation throughout the middle east. That is why it is a good time to push all parties towards the political transition that is so deeply needed in this area.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

On Syria, does the Prime Minister accept that that elusive but very necessary comprehensive peace deal requires not only that Russia should be a party to it, but that Iran should be? Whatever the difficulties, will he say what action he has taken to ensure that Iran is a participant in the peace conference and also what action we are taking to bring back full diplomatic relations with the Republic of Iran?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is right that the role of Iran is something that should be discussed; the point I would make is that Iran is currently playing a role, using its proxies and helping to massacre Syrian civilians. Clearly in the end what is needed more than anything else—more than the engagement of any regional player or indeed any superpower—is for the Syrian people themselves to see a transitional Government in whom they can have confidence. Clearly that has to involve elements of the opposition; it has to involve some elements of the regime, too. That is what a transition would involve.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with my right hon. and learned Friend, and it is worth paying tribute to Baroness Thatcher, because what makes the British rebate different from the other rebates is that it does not have to be renewed in each seven-year term: it is there as part of the architecture of the budget, and unless you are foolish enough to give some of it away, which the last Government did, it is there and can only be amended by unanimity.

I agree with what my right hon. and learned Friend says about working with allies, but I would also say this, which is relevant to what Margaret Thatcher achieved at Fontainebleau: everyone in the European Union has got to understand that you are prepared to say no if you do not get what you want.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

In welcoming the progress that was made, may I ask the Prime Minister about further efforts to cut the administrative costs of the European Union? He will be aware that, even in Germany, the high cost of salaries and the benefits that officials enjoy is now a matter of great public controversy. What progress does he think could be made on this budget to ensure that those who work for the European Commission are paid a reasonable salary and not one that offends European taxpayers?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is right to raise this. The Commission proposal—heading 5, on EU bureaucracy—was €63 billion over the seven-year-period. That was cut back to €61.6 billion, but it is disappointing. Looking at levels of pay, levels of benefit and some of the special payments that people receive, there is a range of reforms that could be made. We must go on arguing for them in the annual budget process and go on working with allies. I think it is now understood across Europe that there are generosities that simply are not defendable.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I will look closely at this. We do want to see a competitive market in financial services and conveyancing. It is a major issue in our economy at the moment to get that mortgage market moving.

There are good signs, as the Governor of the Bank of England said last night, that credit conditions are easing, but we need to make sure that they are easing for people who are trying to buy their first flat and first home, who do not have a big deposit or a lot of help from the bank of mum and dad. We need to make sure that we are on their side.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Q8. In answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), the Prime Minister justified very large cuts in defence spending, with 5,000 troops being sacked right now, on the basis that he had had to face some difficult decisions on expenditure. But those decisions were made in 2010. The security risk facing this country is now much worse, as he himself has acknowledged and as many of his own hon. Friends fear. Given those threats, including in the Sahel, is there not an overwhelming case for looking again at the strategic defence review and ensuring that our troops have the numbers needed to justify our defence?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a serious point. The point about our defence reviews is that they are every five years, so there will be the opportunity to look at this all over again. What I would say to him about the level of risk—I made this point in my statement to the House on Monday—is that the risks are changing. We still face the biggest risk from the Afghanistan-Pakistan area, but the proportion of the risks that we face from that area has declined, so we are able to use resources as we draw down in Afghanistan to cope with the other risks that we face.

The overall point is absolutely that, yes, we are going to have a smaller regular Army, although the extra reserves will mean that the overall level of our Army hardly changes size. But they will be better equipped, more capable, more mobile and more capable of dealing with the modern threats that we face.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend asks an important question, which reminds me that I did not answer the former Chancellor’s question about the Spanish banks. There will be opportunities to deal with that, but in the light of the way in which this is being structured, further progress will need to be made under the banking union proposals before the sorting out of Spanish banks can take place. Many in the eurozone would argue that all those delays are damaging to the future of the eurozone. On bank recapitalisation, stress tests have been carried out in Europe, although some people argue about their robustness, but that was not the focus of discussion on this occasion. This was not so much about banking capital as about the process of a banking union.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I ask the Prime Minister to expand a little on his view of the process towards a democratic, inclusive Syria, given that, although probably 70% of Syrians are wholly opposed to the Assad regime, about 30%—Christians, Alawites and others—are still committed to it? What further efforts are being made with the Russians to try to secure international agreement, however difficult that might be, given that Russia’s compliance and consent will be crucial to an overall settlement?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about this. As I explained in my statement, there are two ways in which transition can take place in Syria. One would involve revolution from below, if you like, while the other—which could be faster if everything went according to plan—would involve a transition from the top, and for that, we need the Russians to engage. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has met and spoken to them regularly, and I have discussed the issue with President Putin. There was a report on Thursday, while we were in the European Council, that the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister had made some interesting remarks about Syria, so we will read those with care. Clearly, everything we can do at the UN and with countries such as Russia to put pressure on the Assad regime is worth while.

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The report goes into enormous detail about the history and ownership of the press. Part of one of the volumes goes into immense detail, which my right hon. Friend can study, and perhaps that is the best answer to him. This point was raised by the Leader of the Opposition. Lord Justice Leveson does address concerns about plurality and media ownership and does say we need to make sure there is more plurality than would otherwise be guaranteed simply by competition policy. That is important, because we want to have not just a vigorous press, but a press that is in different—in wide—ownership as well.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister not, however, appreciate that the argument made by Lord Leveson is not, as he says, for statutory regulation, which is not there, but to enforce and give backing to the proposals of the press? The fundamental flaw with the proposals of the press, as Lord Leveson clearly sets out, is not their intention, which I acknowledge is now an honourable one, but that it is impossible to deliver the independence proposed by the press themselves and the enforcement—for example, not least on penalties on legal costs—without some overarching form of statutory backing? It is not regulation—it is statutory backing. I plead with the Prime Minister to recognise the force of the argument, not that I am making, but that Lord Leveson makes.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman failed to answer the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, just a moment ago, in which he asked the Prime Minister to recognise that the pressure for deregulation and a very light touch in the City was coming very strongly from him and—[Interruption.] Oh yes it was. So if there is to be truth and reconciliation, will there be some acceptance by the Prime Minister and the Chancellor that they got it woefully wrong in putting the pressure on us?

[The Prime Minister]

Everyone will have to account for what they have said and all the rest of it, but I have to ask: who was in charge for the last 13 years? Who was the City Minister who carried out this action? If the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) wants to go into the interstices of who said what and did what, I can tell him that the Conservative party—I do not think I was in Parliament at the time—actually voted against the tripartite arrangement that has so badly failed.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will give way in a moment, but I want to make one point about the Leader of the Opposition’s response. They have had two years to work out what their answer is. What is their answer to too much borrowing, too much spending and too much debt? Their answer is more borrowing, more spending and more debt. Because the right hon. Gentleman did not mention his alternative Queen’s Speech, let me go straight to its centrepiece. The centrepiece of the alternative Queen’s Speech is, I believe, a bonus tax to pay for a jobs fund. Never mind that the last Chancellor in the Labour Government said that a bonus tax would not work; let us look at the detail. The deputy leader of the Labour party was asked in a big set-piece interview how much money that would raise, and this was her response:

“I haven’t got quite the, er, er, I know that we have worked out that figure. I’ll have to get back to you on that.”

She went on to say:

“I haven’t got that actual figure to hand but I can absolutely assure you that Ed Balls has”.

Ah—[Interruption.] The plot thickens. The shadow Chancellor was interviewed this weekend—I know, I need to get out more—and he said that he was sorry, but

“I have not costed the whole programme”.

So there we have it. We have a deputy leader who does not have a clue and a shadow Chancellor who does not have the figures, and I can tell the House why: they have spent their bonus tax 10 times over. They have used it to reverse the VAT increase, to reverse the child benefit change, to reverse the tax credits change, to boost the regional growth fund, to boost capital spending and even to turn empty shops into community centres. They have no idea whatsoever about how to deal with this deficit. They give in to every single interest group—it is the bank tax that likes to say yes from the Front Benchers who cannot say no.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I take the Prime Minister back to what he said about reform of the House of Lords? As someone who spent four years working very co-operatively with his colleagues and the Liberal Democrats to find a solution, I say to him that it is palpable that each party is divided on the issue and work between the Front Benchers will not resolve it. It is right in principle that the British people should decide, and that would also avoid a train wreck in the business of this House. Will the Prime Minister look carefully and positively at the idea of having a pre-legislative referendum on reform of the Lords?

[The Prime Minister]

I very much respect the work—often painstaking, careful and difficult—that the right hon. Gentleman did in a range of different roles to try to move House of Lords reform on. He is absolutely right that all parties are divided on this matter—we should be frank about that—so we will only achieve reform if people work together. I do not believe that a pre-legislative referendum is a good move. On the whole, that is a weapon that has been used by slightly unsavoury regimes over the years. On the question of a referendum more generally, I will merely say that every political party went into the election with a pledge to reform the House of Lords so I do not personally see a referendum as having much to recommend it. The House of Commons can discuss this matter and the House of Commons must decide. If we are going to achieve reform, we will have to work together across the parties to try to deliver what I think will be progress for our constitution—a reformed and smaller House of Lords.

Ministerial Code (Culture Secretary)

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that assurance. I agree with him. Having seen some of the Leveson inquiry on television, I know that it is immensely powerful that people are questioned under oath, that all the documentation is carefully gone through and that questions on that documentation are properly followed up. As I say, that is far more robust than anything the independent adviser or the civil service could provide. As my hon. Friend says, I am not waiting for Leveson to complete his investigations. If at any stage information comes out that shows that anyone has breached the ministerial code, of course I will act. That is the right approach and I think people should respect the integrity of the fact-finding mission in which Leveson is engaged. It does not remove from me the necessity to police the ministerial code; that is my job and I will fulfil it properly.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

One of the clear duties on any Secretary of State, for which they in turn are responsible to the Prime Minister and not to Lord Leveson, concerns the conduct of their special advisers. Given what the Prime Minister knows already about the palpable dereliction of duty by the Secretary of State in supervising that adviser, does he not believe that there are matters under the ministerial code that now merit investigation by the independent adviser? No one understands why he is seeking to shelter behind the smokescreen of Lord Leveson’s inquiry when the duty to have this investigation is on him.

[The Prime Minister]

I respect hugely the right hon. Gentleman and his experience in government and I think he would know that I consulted the Cabinet Secretary, asking the question, “What is the right process to follow to ensure we get to the truth and we deal with this issue?” The right process to follow is to allow Lord Leveson to find the facts of the case and if at any stage there is a question of the ministerial code being broken I can act. The ministerial code in respect of special advisers is absolutely clear: Ministers are responsible and they have to take responsibility, and that is what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State did when he came to the House.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is entirely right. We must ask a simple question: what is in the interests of the UK? It is in our interests to let the eurozone get on with the job of sorting out its problems, and to ensure that this new treaty is restricted to the issues of fiscal union. It is therefore in our interests to use leverage over the institutions and the legal issues to keep them focused on fiscal union. That is the approach we have taken and it is entirely right.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Every single article bar one of the treaty, which I have read, refers to institutions of the European Union, including the Commission and the Court of Justice. Leaving aside its form, how can the Prime Minister possibly say that, in substance, the treaty is not equivalent to a European Union treaty? Given the provisions of article 12—it provides for non-euro contracting parties to participate in discussions on competitiveness, but not those outside the treaty—what has been achieved by his veto except that we are outside the door?

[The Prime Minister]

It is not an EU treaty, because it does not amend EU law; it is not a treaty within all of the treaties of the EU, and that is very important, because it would have been wrong to sign up for that without the safeguards for the single market, financial services and the other things that I set out. Let me just explain how important article 2 is in this agreement of the other countries. Let me read it in full:

“The provisions of this Treaty shall apply insofar as they are compatible with the Treaties on which the Union is founded and with European Union law. They shall not encroach upon the competences of the Union to act in the area of the economic union”—

that is, this treaty is outside EU law. Why is it outside EU law? It is because I made it outside EU law.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly agree with my right hon. Friend on the balance of effort that has been given, on the one hand, to new treaty powers and changes, and, on the other, to actually looking at what needs to be done, particularly in the short term, in terms of the firewall, bank recapitalisation and action by the ECB. More needs to be focused on those things rather than on the medium-term power changes in the EU, which I do not think are being hovered over by the markets, which are working out whether countries can pay their debts. In that regard, my right hon. Friend is right.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

There was no draft treaty before the European Council last Thursday and Friday; there was a set of draft conclusions. Will the Prime Minister set out the paragraph numbers that he thinks would have damaged Britain’s interests had we agreed to them? Will he also confirm that we had a veto on a financial transactions tax before the Council and that we still have one; and that financial services regulation was subject to qualified majority voting before last Thursday and still is?

[The Prime Minister]

As I said in my statement, the eurozone members wanted to create a new treaty within the EU, which has all sorts of dangers. If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the letter that Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy sent, he will see that they specifically wanted the 17 to look at issues such as financial services and the market within that treaty. Without safeguards, a treaty within a treaty would have been far more dangerous than a treaty outside the EU.

Let me repeat this point: a treaty outside the EU cannot do anything that cuts across European treaties or European legislation. Of course, that is not without its dangers, but my judgment was that without safeguards, an EU treaty was more dangerous.

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That is absolutely right. It is very important that when people are looking at the humanitarian plan, the reconstruction plan and the plan for political progress in Libya, we recognise that this is something that the Libyans are doing themselves. We are there to help and to assist, but it is their plan, not our plan. Humility on this occasion is right.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I endorse the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) in praising the leadership that the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and other Ministers have shown during the whole of this period. There is no doubt that that was decisive in securing international co-operation and in following it through.

On the allegations that have been made overnight, as Foreign Secretary at the time, may I say two things? First, as the Prime Minister knows, it was the consistent policy of the previous Government, as it is of his, to be wholly opposed to any complicity in torture, ill treatment or unlawful rendition. Secondly, given the serious nature of the allegations, it is entirely right that they should be examined in every detail by the inquiry under Sir Peter Gibson.

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he says about me, the Foreign Secretary and others. On the issue that he raises, it is right that Sir Peter Gibson can look at the whole area. It is important that nobody rushes to judgment. We have to remember that in 2003, two years after 9/11, there was a Libyan terrorist group that was allied to al-Qaeda. At all times our security services and intelligence services are trying to work for the good of the country to keep us safe, so it is important to remember the circumstances at the time. Nobody should rush to judgment, but it is the right hon. Gentleman’s view, my view and the view of the entire House that Britain should never be complicit in torture or in extraordinary rendition, and it is very important that we make sure that that is the case.

Public Disorder

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly do that, and I was impressed, in the control room of the West Midlands police and emergency services yesterday, by how amateur photographers have been sending in footage to help the police to arrest those who are guilty. As has been said today, everyone has a responsibility. Media organisations, too, have a responsibility, and I hope that they will act on it.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

No one disputes for a second the Prime Minister’s determination to meet what he describes as the first duty of Government to keep the streets safe, but does he not understand that his repetition of what amount to Treasury lines about police numbers and police budgets, and about prison numbers, sounds very complacent? I beg of him to recognise not only the reality that those cuts will lead to fewer police on the streets, but that he must reverse the softer sentencing plans of his Justice Secretary and stop the ludicrous plan that the Justice Secretary has to close prisons when there is patently now an urgent need for more prison places.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not accept what the right hon. Gentleman says about police numbers, and indeed neither do many chief constables. The chief constable of Thames Valley police said that

“what I haven’t done at all is reduce the number of officers who do the patrol functions, so the officers you see in vehicles, on foot, in uniform, on bicycles. We haven’t cut those numbers at all.”

Let me make this additional point to the right hon. Gentleman. One thing the past three days have demonstrated is that the Met, where we have 32,000 officers, actually could take the action to surge from 3,000 on the streets to 16,000 on the streets. I think that is a demonstration of using what you have to maximum effect.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, I accept the point that the right hon. Gentleman makes about transparency, and what I have set out is not just meetings that were, if you like, business meetings—official meetings with media executives and proprietors—but private meetings as well.

In relation to the meeting I held with Rupert Murdoch, the question is not whether he came in through the back door or front door but whether it was declared in the proper way, and yes, it was. In the old days, the only way we found out whether someone had met Rupert Murdoch was by waiting for Alastair Campbell’s diaries. In our case we have been very transparent about it. The information goes all the way back to the election and includes both private and official meetings, whether they were at Chequers or No. 10 Downing street. I think we need to go further in that regard, and I think that should be the new standard. I say to the Leader of the Opposition, who has published the information back to when he became leader of the Labour party: why cannot we see it right back to the general election?

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

When the Prime Minister read of the extensive investigation in The New York Times on 1 September last year, what was his reaction, and what did he do?

[The Prime Minister]

The question I ask myself all the way through is, “Is there new information that Andy Coulson knew about hacking at the News of the World?” I could not be clearer about this: if it turns out that he knew about that hacking, he will have lied to a Select Committee, he will have lied to the police, he will have lied to a court of law and he will have lied to me. I made the decision to employ him in good faith, because of the assurances he gave me. There was no information in that article that would lead me to change my mind about those assurances, but if it turns out—[Interruption.] As I said, I could not be clearer. If it turns out that he knew about the hacking, that will be a matter of huge regret and a matter for great apology, and it will be not only a disgrace that he worked in government but, vitally, something that would be subject to criminal prosecutions.

Phone Hacking

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

To be fair to my right hon. Friend, the issue of the Information Commissioner’s reports—particularly the two reports he mentions—really is a rebuke not just to the previous Government but to the then Opposition. We too should have made more of those reports, which included some very important detail about what was going wrong in data handling, data theft and the rest of it. We must ensure that the inquiry asks the question, “Why were they ignored, and what are we going to do about it now?”

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

May I commend the Prime Minister on the appointment of Lord Justice Leveson, who, as I am sure the Justice Secretary will confirm, is a man of the highest intelligence and integrity, and extremely well equipped to take on the job? On the future regulation of the press, I urge the Prime Minister not to fall into the trap that some in the press are setting, by asserting that any degree of statutory regulation is bound to lead to an end of self-regulation. Given that Express Newspapers has withdrawn from the Press Complaints Commission, as it did in January, will he acknowledge that some measures may have to be imposed by statute so that there is a stronger system of self-regulation?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman speaks some very wise words. There are ways of setting up a regulatory system that is effectively independent, that is non-statutory, that does not have the Government’s fingertips all over it, as it were, and that can do a good and trusted job, as we see in the case of advertising standards. In any case, this matter will not now be for us, but for the inquiry, and it is important that the inquiry should look into it carefully.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises an important point, which is that the last Government did not tell it straight to people about what was happening on immigration and that it has fallen to this Government to take the steps to get the numbers under control. Indeed, Lord Glasman said something that I have said many times, which is that under the last Government there was

“very hard rhetoric combined with a very loose policy”

and that was the worst approach of all.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister share my profound anxiety about the recommendation of the advocate-general to the European Court of Justice for a European-wide ban on the patenting of stem cell research based on human embryos? Does he agree that were such a ban to be confirmed by the ECJ, it would have profoundly damaging effects on our science base and our pharmaceutical industries? Is he able to say what contingency plans the Government are putting in place to minimise the effect of any such ban?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I thank him for giving me some notice of this issue. The point I would make is that this House and the House of Lords have had extensive debates to arrive at the policy that we have. I believe that it is right to try to maintain the UK as a world leader in stem cell research. Under European law, uses of human embryos for industrial or commercial purposes are exempted from patent protection. As I understand it, the legal opinion of the advocate-general at the ECJ on the scope of this exemption is advisory and does not bind the Court. As such, the opinion currently has no impact on British researchers, but we should keep this position under review.

Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is entirely right. Clearly, this was a painstaking operation—if you like, a painstaking piece of detective work—that went on for many, many months. I can tell from speaking to President Obama that this was not some chance opportunity that came up but a piece of very careful work put in place over months and an operation clearly carried out with great professionalism and skill.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister rightly talks about three strands of a strategy to deal with the continuing problem of al-Qaeda. May I suggest that there is an additional strand, to pick up his point about the pernicious ideology of al-Qaeda, which in many ways remains the most enduring threat posed by al-Qaeda, notwithstanding the demise of its leader? Although there is no silver bullet, so far as here at home is concerned we need to continue programmes to deal with underachievement by some—not all—Asian heritage groups in schools and underemployment of them at work in order to reduce the opportunities for their minds to be taken over by this ideology.

Japan and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend made a strong and persuasive argument in his newspaper article this morning. I make three points. First, on the issue of mercenaries, what is happening is unacceptable. We should be sending the clearest possible message to those in Mali, Chad and elsewhere who are thinking of volunteering as mercenaries, and we should put into the next UN resolution the strongest possible language about mercenaries. Secondly, the same should apply to policing the arms embargo against the Gaddafi regime, because there are signs that he is seeking additional armaments right now. Thirdly, I hear clearly the argument —it is an ingenious argument that only a lawyer of my right hon. and learned Friend’s brilliance could make—about the specific way the arms embargo was termed towards the country that Gaddafi effectively renamed, but I am not sure it is an opinion that is shared by all other lawyers.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I was going to ask the Prime Minister about the nature of the duties on the Security Council. Five years ago, a high level working group established by the then Secretary-General, Kofi Annan, recommended that the responsibilities—the duties—of the Security Council should be broadened from protecting international peace and security to a “responsibility to protect” populations from internal humanitarian disaster, even where that did not directly pose a threat across the borders of those countries. Does the Prime Minister agree that as well as the commendable action that the British Government are taking to push the international community to deal with the immediate problem of Libya, we need to use this terrible example to press our partners internationally to broaden the remit of the Security Council so that we never get another Bosnia or Rwanda or, maybe tragically, another Libya?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman has considerable expertise on this issue. The responsibility to protect has been pushed forward and debated, and I remember asking questions in opposition, at the time of problems in Burma and elsewhere, on whether it should be invoked. What the lawyers will advise, quite rightly, is that things have moved on and changed since Bosnia. It seems to me that one of the things we are trying to do here is learn the lessons of Iraq and the lessons of Bosnia, where the international community was neither fast enough, nor indeed decisive enough in responding.

Libya and the Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 28th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do think that there are lessons to learn from the deal in the desert. The previous Government were correct to encourage the giving up of weapons of mass destruction, but more parameters should have been put on the relationship, particularly— I have made the point before—regarding the release of al-Megrahi. It should not have been the British Government’s position to try to facilitate that. Lessons need to be learned more broadly about that, and I am sure that there will be an opportunity to do so.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I echo the commendations of our forces and diplomatic and other staff who have worked hard to provide an adequate service for British citizens and others stranded in Libya. I commend the other actions that the Government are now taking, but may I ask the Prime Minister to expand on the point he made in his statement about what he described as greater redundancy for responding to future crises, by which I assume he meant greater resilience and greater resources. Does he accept that cutting Foreign Office staff by 450 to save £30 million at a time when its budgets are flat cannot do other than significantly undermine its ability to respond adequately and promptly when the next crisis occurs?

[The Prime Minister]

I obviously listen to the right hon. Gentleman, given his experience. The cuts to the Foreign Office are much less severe than cuts to other Departments, so I do not think that that has had a material impact. As for the issue of redundancy, clearly in the case of Egypt, the combination of scheduled flights and adding in charter flights meant that we led the pack in getting people out. In Libya, the situation was different and more difficult, and we need to learn the lessons about what extra capacity we need to put in place. As I have said, it is not as simple as some people think, because if capacity is added too quickly, scheduled flights collapse—bmi and BA both fly to Libya—and you land yourself with a bigger problem. The lessons should be learned. The only point that I would make now is that, as we stand today, Britain is doing a huge amount to help other countries out of Libya, and is helping more than 32 nationalities.

EU Council and North Africa

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Jack Straw

Monday 7th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As ever, my right hon. and learned Friend brings a mixture of experience and precision to this issue. We were told by the previous Government what they did not want, which was the death of al-Megrahi in a Scottish prison, but we were not told by the previous Government what they did want, which was the facilitation of his release. That comes over, time and again. The most powerful point that my right hon. and learned Friend makes is this: in the end, that man was convicted of the largest mass murder in British history, which should have been the thought coursing through ministerial veins and brains when Ministers wrote those memos and made those speeches.

[Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)]

I fully understand the Prime Minister’s concern and that of colleagues on both sides of the House about the timing and circumstances of the release of Mr Megrahi. However, having read the Cabinet Secretary’s report in full, which I have here, may I say that it was wrong of the Prime Minister to elide quotations from the Cabinet Secretary’s conclusions with his own gloss, implying that those were indeed the conclusions? As my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has spelt out, and contrary to the implication that the Prime Minister has given to the House, the Cabinet Secretary concluded that nothing in the material that he reviewed contradicts anything that my right hon. Friend the former Foreign Secretary told this House on 12 October in a detailed statement or anything that my right hon. Friend the former Prime Minister has said at any time on this issue. The conclusions back up the continued assertion made by the former Prime Minister, the former Foreign Secretary and me, as the Prime Minister has finally admitted through gritted teeth, that there was no pressure from BP on the Scottish Government, that we acted properly at all times and, moreover, that at no stage did we ever suggest to the Scottish Government what decision they should take.

On so-called facilitation, let me read to the House the very next sentence. It

“amounted to: proceeding with ratification of the PTA”,

which was in hand anyway,

“explaining to Libya in factual terms the process for application for transfer under a PTA…and informing the Scottish Government that there was no legal barrier to transfer under the PTA”.

That was all known before and does not contradict what my right hon. Friend the former Foreign Secretary said at the time.

[The Prime Minister]

Let me make two points gently to the right hon. Gentleman. First, although the Cabinet Secretary rightly, in my view, finds that nothing in this report contradicts what the then Foreign Secretary did say, my point is purely this: this is about what was not in that statement. That is because when we look at what is in the report, we find that it is very clear that there were all sorts of things—facilitations and game plans—that we were not made aware of.

I do not want, in any way, to misquote what Gus O’Donnell has done in a very good report. The conclusions in paragraph 34 state:

“Policy was therefore progressively developed that HMG should do all it could, whilst respecting devolved competences, to facilitate an appeal by the Libyans to the Scottish Government for Mr Megrahi’s transfer under the PTA or release on compassionate grounds… as the best outcome for managing the risks faced by the UK.”

All right hon. and hon. Members will be able to make up their mind whether what we were told by the previous Government was a full and complete picture. Everyone can make up their mind and I am pretty sure what a reasonable person will come to.