European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Membership of those organisations helps us not only to get things done for our people and our country, but to make progress on the issues we care about around the world.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister deserves credit for the deal he has got; I will be able to campaign for it with confidence. He is right to say that the three different leave campaigns are unable to say what leave would really look like, but given that he will have to do the negotiations in the event of an out vote, it is also incumbent on him to tell us what leave would look like. When he sets out the alternatives, will he explain specifically what leave, as well as stay, would look like?

[The Prime Minister]

We will, as a Government, set out what we believe the alternatives are. There is the Swiss model, which took nine years to negotiate, and we have discussed the Norwegian model today. The World Trade Organisation option means that we could face tariffs every time we try to sell a car into the EU. The Canada free trade deal has not yet been agreed, but it does not cover all services so we could be seriously disadvantaged. We need to go into detail on each of those and put accurate information in place so that people can see what is on offer.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I think there is good will towards Britain. As I said, many of the contributions to this debate were not just about Britain benefiting from being in Europe but about Europe benefiting from having Britain in it. People do not want us to leave, but we have to turn the good will into action. That is what the February or any subsequent Councils will be all about.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I wish the Prime Minister well in his renegotiations. I shall be campaigning for Britain to stay in the EU whether he is successful or not. He should not oversell the difference it will make to Britain whether he is successful or not. It means a lot to those of us who will be campaigning to stay in the EU that we will be able to do so on the basis of an honest and transparent case. It is therefore difficult for him to say that the changes he is campaigning for are irreversible. He knows as well as anyone that a future Prime Minister, Government or Parliament can change the terms in which we are in. Will he withdraw the allegation that the things he is campaigning for now are irreversible?

[The Prime Minister]

What I am looking for are changes that are legally binding and irreversible. Should a future British Prime Minister and the 27 other Prime Ministers and Presidents around the table decide to take Europe in a totally different direction, then that would be very concerning. But, and it is a big but, we should remember that we passed through this House the referendum lock. If any future Labour Prime Minister—or any other Prime Minister—tried to give away powers that we either have or get back there would be another referendum, so I do not think we have to worry about that.

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for what he has said. As we are not part of Schengen, we had a choice over how to design our programme. We have taken the decision that it is better to take people from the camps. That is a good and humane decision, it will help others to be able to use those camps, and it will not encourage people to make that perilous journey.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister’s statement completely fails to realise either the scale or the urgency of the humanitarian crisis that faces us. It also fails to recognise the huge well of generosity in our country at the moment. People in every one of our constituencies are desperate to help. If the Prime Minister wants a moment for his big society, this is it. Will he come back to this House tomorrow with a statement that recognises not only the scale of the catastrophe that faces the Syrian people, but the huge desire in our constituencies to help them? Let us do more to help these people and have a statement of which to be proud.

[The Prime Minister]

I think people will respond very positively to the idea of giving a warm and thorough welcome to 20,000 people coming to our country. We should now get into the business of implementing the scheme rapidly. We need to get local councils and local groups on side, and make sure that everyone works together. Let us find a warm and really good welcome for these 20,000 people.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 27th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What the previous Government did for carers was pass a landmark piece of legislation that gave them rights for the first time, as well as the people they care for, and it made sure that they had breaks from caring, because the Conservative party supports Britain’s carers.

The third set of Bills in the Queen’s Speech addresses the great challenges we face as a nation, and we are starting with our place in Europe. We have seen treaty after treaty pass through this House. The EU has changed a great deal since 1975, and it is time the British people once again had their say. We have a very clear strategy of renegotiation, reform and referendum. The Bill in this Queen’s Speech makes it clear that the referendum must take place at the latest by the end of 2017. It builds on the excellent work done by my hon. Friends the Members for Stockton South (James Wharton) and for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), who introduced similar Bills in the previous Parliament. I am delighted that the Bill now has all-party support, so I look forward to seeing it make its way through both Houses in extra quick time.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

We are told that the EU referendum Bill will be introduced after the Prime Minister has negotiated reforms. Will members of his Cabinet be allowed to vote against staying in the EU? Will they be allowed to vote no and stay in his Cabinet?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, the hon. Gentleman has the order slightly the wrong way round. We are going to introduce this Bill straight away. I want us to legislate straight away to get the Bill in place, so that everyone knows that there will be that referendum. But the Government have a very clear view, which is that we believe that the right answer is reform, renegotiation and referendum. We go into that believing that Britain will be successful. That is the view of all the Government and every Government Minister.

As well as the challenge of Europe, we will continue to work with our international partners on securing a proper replacement for the millennium development goals in September. We will confront the challenge of climate change, not least with the build-up to the vital Paris summit in December, and we will meet the challenge of combating extremism, including through a new Bill in front of this House. We want to take on the poisonous narrative of extremism—not just violent extremism, but all extremism—in a much more aggressive way, standing up for the liberal and tolerant values that make this country great.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thought it was very kind of the President of the United States to make that point about doing something right, and the IMF is absolutely clear. It said:

“The UK is leading in a very eloquent and convincing way in the European Union. A few countries, only a few, are driving growth:”.

That is what the IMF thinks about the British and American economies. Obviously that is helping in Dover where the claimant count is down by 28% since the election, but we should not be satisfied until everyone who wants a job in our country is able to get a job in our country, and until our employment rate is the best in the G7. That is what I would define as achieving what we want, which is full employment in our country.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Q7. The Prime Minister’s crisis in the national health service has its roots in general practice, and the changes the Government made to GP pensions saw a huge number of GPs retire early. In my area in Chesterfield, 40% of places for the future recruitment of GPs are left vacant. How can we expect the country to recruit the number of GPs we need when so few of them have any confidence in the Prime Minister’s running of the national health service?

[The Prime Minister]

The figures show that 1,000 more GPs are working in the NHS today than when I became Prime Minister, and in the hon. Gentleman’s area there are 25 more GPs than in 2010. I agree that we need further changes to ensure that our GP and family doctor service works really well. Four million people already have access to seven-day opening at GP surgeries, and I want that expanded to the whole country. That is a step forward after the step back taken by the last Labour Government, who took GPs out of out-of-hours care altogether.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in congratulating Chloe on starting her apprenticeship. In his constituency, nearly 4,000 people have begun an apprenticeship since 2010 and the claimant count there is down 42% since the election. The long-term youth claimant count—that should be of the greatest concern to us, because that is young people on unemployment benefit month after month—is down by 58% in the last year alone. This recovery is gathering pace and is providing jobs for people, and each one of those jobs is a chance for them to provide a better future for their families. But we must stick to the plan and a key part of the plan is getting the deficit down.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Q9. Ambulance trusts are under such pressure that they are downgrading calls from some of the sickest people in the country. In the East of England area, 57 people are believed to have died while waiting for an ambulance that never arrived. Is not the Prime Minister ashamed that this is what happens when the Tories run the NHS?

[The Prime Minister]

Clearly, what happened in East Anglia was wrong, and the change was made without the knowledge of the trust’s board. As soon as it was found out, the chief executive reversed the decision and ordered that an independent investigation be carried out by someone outside the trust. That investigation found that there had been no harm to patients, and I think it is important to put this in context. The hon. Gentleman quite rightly says that it is important that we conduct this debate in a good and civilised way. At the weekend, the Leader of the Opposition was asked seven times whether he had used the phrase that he wanted to “weaponise the NHS”. Seven times he refused to answer the question. Everybody knows that he said those words, and if he had a shred of decency in him, he would get up and explain that he should not have said those words, and apologise.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. If one saw the shocking pictures of Hamas lining people up and shooting them in a firing squad, one could see the nature of the organisation with which one is dealing. It is an important issue. I support a Palestinian state. I want the Palestinians to achieve that goal, but Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It believes in targeting innocent people and murdering them to pursue its objectives. It does not even recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist. Therefore, we have to start our discussions with a recognition of the true nature of the organisation that we are dealing with. He is right about that.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

People throughout Britain have been absolutely appalled by the scenes in Gaza, Iraq and Syria this summer. What impact have all the Foreign Office resignations and the removal of the Foreign Secretary, at an incredibly difficult time for the Foreign Office, had on the British Government’s capacity to respond?

[The Prime Minister]

The new Foreign Secretary has had a full in-tray but he has handled these issues and discussions with huge calmness and ability. People have seen that over the summer. Obviously, it is a matter of regret that Baroness Warsi decided to resign. On the other change in the Foreign Office, we have a new Minister for Africa, who I know will bring a lot to that job. Overall, we have a very strong team of Ministers who are more than capable of tackling these issues.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 4th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is very important to meet such commitments. We will set our detailed plans in our manifesto, but throughout the time for which I have been Prime Minister, we have kept—more than kept—that commitment, and it is important for us to use our record of meeting it, at a time when we have had to make difficult decisions about spending, to encourage other countries to do the same.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

May I return the Prime Minister to what he said earlier about his record on jobs? In Chesterfield, I constantly meet people who are in work but in poverty, and who use food banks because they cannot make work pay. Why has the Prime Minister done so little to support people who are working hard, but cannot make work pay under his Government?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me say first to the hon. Gentleman that it is good news that, in Chesterfield, the claimant count for unemployment benefit has fallen by 29% over the past year. He asked specifically what we had done to help people who are in work. Well, we have ensured that they can earn £10,000 before they pay any income tax, we have made it possible to have council tax frozen, we have cut fuel duty, and we have done many other things to ensure that people can keep more of the money that they earn.

We will continue to lead the way in reforming the European Union, which, as I have said, has become too big, too bossy and too interfering. We have already made a start, not least with the first ever real-terms cut in the EU budget. In this Session we shall see the first benefits of that cut, which, over time, will save British taxpayers more than £8 billion. That is proof that this House of Commons and this Government can get things done.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for what he says. It is absolutely clear that if we do not take robust, predictable and firm long-term action, we will pay the consequences for many years to come, and not just in Europe, because other countries in the world would see the resolve of the international community and of the UN as weak and would draw the conclusions. We are working well with the Germans in trying to agree a common position. So far at European Councils, we have been able to agree some robust measures.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

People remember the Prime Minister, when he was Leader of the Opposition, taking a very robust line on Russian aggression in Georgia, and they may well contrast that with the position that the EU has taken against Russian aggression in Ukraine. What does he consider to be the reasons for the different approach? Is he happy with the overall approach taken by the EU at this moment, or does he think that it should be stronger?

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for what he says. Let us be absolutely clear: this Government have not changed the long-standing British policy towards China, and China and Tibet, and we do want to have a strong and positive relationship with China, which I believe is to our mutual benefit. The Chinese Government are aware of our policy on Tibet. We recognise Tibet as part of China. We do not support Tibetan independence, and we respect China’s sovereignty, and when I spoke to Premier Li recently, we both looked forward to our countries working very closely together in the months and years ahead.

The point about this Queen’s Speech is that Britain will not seize these opportunities unless we are able to take the tough decisions needed here at home. That is what this Queen’s Speech is all about: rising to the challenge of preparing this country for the future. We are in a global race and the way we will win is by backing families who want to work hard and do the right thing. To do that, we must get the deficit down, not build up ever more debts for our children. We must restore our competitiveness so that British businesses can take on the world. We must reform welfare and pensions so it pays to work and pays to save, and we must reform our immigration system so we attract people who will benefit this country, and we clear up the mess we were left by the Labour party.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I would like to thank the Prime Minister very much for coming to Derbyshire twice during the recent elections and invite him to come back in 2015 to see whether he can repeat the magic. He will be aware that there are now 43 Labour councillors. Does he think Labour did so well in those elections in Derbyshire because of the poor record of Derbyshire county council, or was it thanks to the record of his Government?

[The Prime Minister]

The choice for people in Derbyshire at the next election will be whether they want to keep on the path of getting the deficit down, reforming welfare and controlling immigration, or whether they want to put it all at risk with the Labour party. People in Derbyshire understand that.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point that I was trying to make in response to the earlier question is that we have to respect the outcomes of elections in other countries. In Greece elections have been held. In Spain elections have been held. We may think that those countries have taken the wrong decisions with respect to the euro or whatever, but those are decisions for them to take, not for us to take. We in this country, through this House of Commons elected by the British people, should determine the right approach for Britain, but I do not think it is possible to say that we have a right in this House to decide the right approach for Greece, Spain or Italy. We may have strong views, but the idea that we can go to the European Council and just tell all those people that they are not listening properly to their own publics is incredible.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Is it not the reality that the Prime Minister has not made his long-awaited speech because he is the head of a party that is entirely ungovernable on Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

No, I completely disagree. The Conservative party’s position is absolutely in line with the position of the British public, which is that we know we need to be in the single market because we are a trading nation and our businesses benefit and our economy benefits from that, but we are not happy with every element of our membership of the European Union. Unlike the Labour party, which just caved in, gave in on common agricultural policy reform, gave in on the rebate, gave in on the bail-out, we are prepared to stand up and get what we want.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We are making some progress on this issue. I discussed it specifically with Martin Schulz, the President of the European Parliament, who wants to see more British people involved in the Commission. I do not believe that it has to do with issues about pay; as I pointed out, Commission officials are rather better paid than members of our own Foreign and Commonwealth Office. However, we are looking at all the potential barriers to make sure that Britain is punching its weight in the Commission and elsewhere.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

As the Prime Minister said goodbye to his Chief Whip, did it occur to him that he might have some difficulty persuading the rest of Europe to listen to what he was saying if he could not even convince his own Back Benchers?

[The Prime Minister]

This, obviously, was all discussed at great length at the European Council in all sorts of forums. I am delighted to welcome the new Chief Whip, who is in his place and is already doing a great job.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. If we want an example of crony politics, frankly, it is the fact that the party opposite gets £5 million from the Unite union, and when it comes to this strike, which could disrupt the Olympics, we have had absolute silence—not a word of condemnation. It is not surprising, because the Unite union does not just give the Labour party the money; it picks its leader as well.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The patient satisfaction survey results have shown the greatest reduction in patient satisfaction in the history of the national health service. What will the Prime Minister do to turn around perceptions of the failure of the NHS under his Government?

[The Prime Minister]

The King’s Fund, which carried out this survey, says:

“There is no evidence of a real decline in service quality or performance”.

That is what the King’s Fund says about its own survey. Frankly, I would put more weight on a survey of people who have actually been using the NHS. As I said, of the users of the NHS, 92% of in-patients and 95% of out-patients rated their overall experience as good, very good or excellent. I do not think that is surprising, because since the election there are 4,000 more doctors, mixed-sex accommodation is down 96%, hospital infections are at their lowest levels since surveillance began, the number of people waiting more than 18 weeks is also at its lowest since records began, and average waiting times are down as well. The health service is performing extremely well and we should praise all those who have delivered that performance.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am a bit disappointed by what the hon. Lady has said, because the green investment bank has £3 billion to spend on green investments. This is the sort of proposal that has been included in Labour manifestos, Conservative manifestos and Liberal Democrat manifestos for years. Now we are delivering it on the ground, and that will make a difference.

We should always, in this country, stand on the side of freedom, and we should remember that it is 30 years since our taskforce landed on the Falkland Islands to defend the islanders’ right to remain British. I am sure that the House will join me in paying tribute to the 255 British servicemen who gave their lives in the defence of freedom. Three decades have not dimmed our memories of their bravery, nor have they dimmed this country’s resolve. Make no mistake: for as long as the people of the Falkland Islands wish to remain British, that is exactly how it will be.

Let me say exactly what this Queen’s Speech is about. It is about a Government making the tough, long-term decisions to restore our country to strength—dealing with the deficit, rebalancing the economy, and building a society that rewards people who work hard and do the right thing.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister will be aware that the Minister for Immigration said last week, in the wake of the election results, that the Government must start to demonstrate more competence. Was the Prime Minister disappointed to discover yesterday that the Deputy Prime Minister does not understand the difference between the debt and the deficit?

[The Prime Minister]

What the Deputy Prime Minister said yesterday, and what I said yesterday, is that we inherited a deficit that was bigger than the deficits of Greece, Spain or Portugal. What we have had to do is deal with that deficit, deal with the debt, and get our country moving again. We are recovering from the mess that the hon. Gentleman’s party left.

We are reforming welfare so that it pays to have a job, but we want to do more to reward responsibility. We are lifting 2 million people out of tax, but we want to go further to help Britain’s strivers. We have introduced free schools and created more than 1,000 academies, but we want to do more to spread opportunity. That is what this Queen’s Speech is about.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. Institutional arrangements and treaty arrangements in the EU must be agreed by unanimity. If anyone is not content with what is being put forward, it is perfectly acceptable to do what I did and say, “I am not happy to go ahead with the treaty without these safeguards.”

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has heard from Members on both sides of the House about the worries of manufacturing industry. Will he say specifically which exporting firms think that his actions last week will make exports easier rather than harder—which ones have come out and supported his move?

[The Prime Minister]

Frankly, I have found huge support from the business community for what I have said—and that spans a huge number of different industries. Many industries are asking what we will do about the problem of excessive regulation. That should be dealt with through the single market, which we will continue to do.

Libya

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That is an important point. Hopefully, with a new Government in Libya, we shall be able to see how much of the agreement over weapons of mass destruction was kept. It is concerning that there are still large supplies of unweaponised mustard gas, on which the international community and, now, the NTC must keep a close eye, but, as I have said, when the new Government get their feet under the table, we may find out more.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Glapwell Contracting Services in my constituency was in the process of completing a contract with the Libyan oil industry when the uprising started. The failure of that contract to reach completion caused significant financial problems for the company, and it has taken me more than two months to get the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to respond to me. Can the Prime Minister tell me whether he will be able to secure any support for the British businesses that are in the middle of contracts with Libya, and what weight he will be able to put behind that?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. I think it will help that not only do we now have a mission in Benghazi, but our ambassador will be becoming established in Tripoli. There will be full support for that, and companies such as the one that the hon. Gentleman represents in his constituency will be able to contact the embassy, which will be able to help with the contract.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The Opposition do not like hearing about it because they know that they had people working in Downing street whose conduct was absolutely despicable. That is a contrast they cannot avoid.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister seems to be suggesting that his appointment of Andy Coulson was a huge success. In fact, Sir Paul Stephenson has made it clear that that appointment prevented him from giving information to the Prime Minister that he would otherwise have given. Is it not fundamentally obvious to everyone that the Prime Minister made a dramatic error of judgment in appointing Andy Coulson, not with the benefit of—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Questions are becoming longer and longer, and they need to get shorter.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I urge my hon. Friend to look carefully at the detail of our proposals. We want a progressive system in which people who earn more pay back more, which is why nobody pays anything until they earn £21,000, and people do not start to pay back in full until they earn £35,000. We propose that people who pay back, say, £3,000 a year in earnings should not be discouraged, because in many ways that is the right thing to do.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Q10. In opposition, the Prime Minister made it clear that Hizb ut-Tahrir should be banned, but last week he fell back on exactly the same explanations that he refused to accept when they were given to him by the previous Prime Minister. What has changed?

[The Prime Minister]

We have banned the Tehrik-e-Taliban—we have taken action. As my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor will hastily testify, it is endlessly frustrating that we are subject to so many legal requirements, but I am afraid that we have to be a Government under the law. [Interruption.]

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 21st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister should know that he has the support of the vast majority of Members of all parties for the Government’s actions and those of our troops, who are undertaking the work on our behalf. Does he agree that it is hard to see how the Libyan people will be safe from the threat of violence while Colonel Gaddafi remains in charge of that country?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman puts it absolutely correctly. We know what our job is—to enforce the UN’s will. It is for the people in Libya to decide who governs them, how they are governed and what their future is, but none of us has changed our opinion that there is no future for the people of Libya with Colonel Gaddafi in charge.

Obviously, there are those, including some in the House, who question whether Britain really needs to get involved. Some have argued that we should leave it to others because there is not sufficient British national interest at stake. I believe that argument is misplaced. If Gaddafi’s attacks on his own people succeed, Libya will become once again a pariah state, festering on Europe’s border, and a source of instability exporting terror beyond its borders. It will be a state from which literally hundreds of thousands of citizens could try to escape, putting huge pressure on us in Europe. We should also remember that Gaddafi is a dictator who has a track record of violence and support for terrorism against our country. The people of Lockerbie, for instance, know what that man is capable of. I am therefore clear that taking action in Libya with our partners is in our national interest.

NATO Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue, which is a difficult one. Not only has there been an insufficiency of Pashtuns in the security forces, but there has been an insufficiency of Pashtuns from Helmand and elsewhere in that part of the country. That means that we must make a greater effort to recruit and retain them, but I think that as they see progress on the ground they will be more likely to want to serve.

Let me make clear that we are on track to achieve the 2011 goal of 171,600 in the Afghan national army—the current force is 138,000—and to reach the October 2011 target of 134,000 in the Afghan national police, who currently number 120,000. Plainly, those are not unrealistic objectives, but the point about the ethnic make-up is important.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to say that the country has paid a tremendous debt to Afghanistan in terms of the cost to our country. He said earlier that he would send a message to our friends and allies by setting a deadline, but he also sends a message to our enemies by setting that deadline. What impact does he think the deadline will have on al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Does he think that it will make them more likely to want to negotiate?

[The Prime Minister]

The point is that the Taliban have suffered huge reverses in Helmand and southern Afghanistan, particularly over the past year, and a serious attrition in their numbers. As for what I have said, I have not been talking about 2010, as my predecessor did, or about 2011; I have been talking about 2015.

I think the Taliban know that they are losing militarily and suffering huge attrition in their numbers. They should also know that, as well as the military hammer that is hitting them, there is the option of a political process allowing them to reintegrate at a low level, and that, with the Afghan Government, there are opportunities for reconciliation at a higher level. If we look across the world at the way in which counter-insurgencies have ended, we see that they have normally ended through a combination of military might and a political process, and I believe that the same applies in this instance.

G20 Summit

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Monday 15th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do. My hon. Friend is entirely right, and that is why the Education Secretary, who was on such robust form earlier, was in China with me, signing an agreement with the Chinese Government on the teaching of English in China, but also the teaching of Mandarin in our schools. It is extremely—[Interruption.] The Education Secretary speaks perfect English; I do not know what hon. Members are talking about. However, I think that the agreement is a very important step forward.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

For much of the past decade, Ireland was held up by Conservative Members as an example of the direction in which we should have been taking our economy. Now, because Ireland has followed a strategy that largely involves having the same medicine that the Prime Minister is recommending for this country, it is seeing markets questioning its economy, interest rates rising and confidence falling. What lessons has the Prime Minister learned from the situation in Ireland?

[The Prime Minister]

I think that the biggest lesson is that the Irish followed one key new Labour policy, which was to join the euro. Fortunately, new Labour did not have the courage and bravery to follow through its own manifesto and listened very carefully to my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), who fought a very strong campaign to keep us out of the euro.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Toby Perkins

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I join my hon. Friend in congratulating his constituent. Transparency on pay is an important principle, because it is good for democracy and accountability if we know how much people in the public sector are earning. I also think that it will help us to control public spending. When people see how much people are paid in the public sector, the pressure will be on to keep top pay levels down. It would also be worth while having a maximum multiple of 20 times earnings; we are holding a review to get that done. People at the top of a public sector organisation should not earn more than 20 times what people at the bottom earn. It is that sort of progressive idea that we are looking forward to introducing.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Q7. Does the Prime Minister share the concerns of two schoolteachers from Chesterfield who came to see me this weekend, that children from areas of greater deprivation will suffer disproportionately from his plans to cut 10,000 university places?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place as the Member of Parliament for Chesterfield. We can all remember one of his predecessors in that seat, Tony Benn, who left this House saying that he wanted to spend more time doing politics.

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is that we want to help children from less well-off backgrounds by having a pupil premium. We will take money from outside the education budget to ensure that the pupil premium is well funded, so that children from the poorest homes get to go to the best schools and the money follows the pupil into those schools. As for university places, let me say this to the hon. Gentleman: we are expanding the number of university places by 10,000, compared with the legacy that we were left.