Global Combat Air Programme Treaty

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his points. He is right that having a sixth-generation aircraft in our fleet will ensure that we keep ahead. He will know that Typhoons are at four and a half, and the F-35B is a very capable fifth-generation aircraft. Our current plan is to have 48 by 2025, and another 27 after that. For 2035, it is not possible right now to provide an exact number of a sixth-generation aircraft that is yet to be designed and built. As my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) pointed out, we do not know quite what the shape of air war will be at the time, particularly with drones, swarms and many other developments. We do know that air combat will continue to be vital in future, and that we will have the best form of air combat available through GCAP.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, delivered in his usual “never knowingly undersold” style. I welcome the treaty, but does he agree that if GCAP is to be successful, he must ensure that we have a vibrant manufacturing base in the UK? I do not know if he is aware or whether his officials have briefed him, but following the completion of the Qatari order at BAE Systems at Warton, there is no more manufacturing taking place at that site. What will he do to fill the gap between delivering the development phase of GCAP and the final aircraft?

[Grant Shapps]

It is worth pointing out that the Tempest programme, the UK side of GCAP, already employs 3,000 people in this country—I mentioned that £2 billion has been spent so far—and the right hon. Gentleman will be interested to hear that 1,000 of those are apprentices. He asks about a factory run by what is essentially a private business, or rather not Government, in BAE—

[Mr Kevan Jones]

No, it’s not!

[Grant Shapps]

It is factually true to say that it is a private business. I was going to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s question by saying that he will perhaps be aware that there is further interest in Typhoon around the world. I cannot go into specifics, but I very much hope that it is successful in winning that. As a Government, we will certainly be fully behind that.

LGBT Veterans Independent Review

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

My hon. Friend will know full well that we cannot write a blank cheque. It is just not possible to do that. Lord Etherton came up with £50 million, which is a significant amount of money. He will have been mindful of other schemes, albeit not directly comparable, in this country and overseas. That is why, I believe, the figure of £50 million was arrived at.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. Recommendation 16 of the report references pensions. In his statement, he said that people can apply for pension that had been accrued, but some individuals will have expected a pension for longer service but been dismissed before they could accrue it. Will that be taken into account, and will next of kin be able to access those pension benefits?

On the £50 million compensation, which is recommendation 28 of the report, I am a little lost to understand how that will be distributed. If the Minister is going to come up with a scheme, I suggest that he looks at the Post Office Horizon compensation scheme, of which I have been on the advisory board for the last year, helping to develop it. We are going to have to look at what elements are taken into account before we get to an accrued sum. Setting up an advisory board or some steering group to work up the scheme would be a good idea—and let me say that I do not think £50 million will even touch the sides.

[Dr Murrison]

There is precedent for such a scheme, as I say—I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be aware of the Canadian scheme—so we are not starting with a blank sheet of paper, and neither was Lord Etherton.

On pensions, it is important that those who thought they did not have an entitlement to pensions look again, because accrued pensions are accrued pensions and were not forfeit. I take the right hon. Gentleman’s point about pensions that might have been accrued after the point at which individuals left the service. There is no way of restoring those pensions, and I hope he will understand that. It would be incredibly difficult to do that, so I am not going to give him any encouragement that that will form any part of our deliberations in relation to the financial award.

Former Afghan Special Forces: Deportation

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

My hon. Friend is right to ask whether it is possible for countries that have relocation schemes to club together to share the burden of any particular grouping. The difficulty is that, without the employment records, there is no way of knowing the entirety of those who served in that grouping. Thus, as I said previously, members of the Triples or other units—the National Directorate of Security, for example—tend to be granted category 4 because there is a member of the UK armed forces or UK intelligence community, or veterans, who can personally vouch for the role they played in the conflict. That will be the same for the Australians, the Canadians, the Americans, the Danes and whoever else. It would be impossible to say that an entire taskforce—CF333 or ATF444—could all come without knowing the totality of the employment record, because there would be simply no way to determine who did or did not serve with those units.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. I have a constituent who was a member of the special forces in Afghanistan—I will not name him—and who approached me several months ago about his family stuck in Pakistan. The bureaucracy and disconnection between different parts of Government are astounding. Finally, we have relocated his family to the UK, but it was not an easy process. It took a long time for me to wade through the treacle of the various Government Departments. Who is in charge of that? We have just spent £200 million on the Rwanda resettlement scheme. Surely, putting some money and effort behind the scheme would solve the problem.

[James Heappey]

A number of policy decisions and realities around wider immigration in this country have meant that ARAP has moved at a variable pace. Ultimately, ARAP sits under the MOD and, thus, me. ACRS sits elsewhere. Since the Pakistanis made it clear that they would start to deport those without documents, we have been able to accelerate movement both from Afghanistan to Pakistan and from Pakistan to the UK. I regret that it comes on the back of a number of months of relatively little movement, but we are now moving with an urgency that I feel much more comfortable standing in the House and talking about.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)]

I am well aware of my right hon. Friend’s concerns. I am happy to meet him and discuss them further.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

T9.   Has the MOD made any further payments in addition to the £480 million it paid to General Dynamics in March of this year? I understand that subcontractors on the programme are not being paid, or are not being paid the amounts they expected. Is there any reason why General Dynamics should not be paying its subcontractors on this programme?

[James Cartlidge]

The right hon. Gentleman is very knowledgeable on these matters, and I am more than happy for him to write to me about them. The Ajax contract is a firm price contract, and I am very pleased to say that we are getting very positive feedback from the Household Cavalry about that platform’s capability, its sensors and its cannon. I do not know the answer to the right hon. Gentleman’s specific question about payments to subcontractors, so he is more than welcome to write to me.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 11th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

I certainly can, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

What liaising does the Minister do with the Home Office? I have an Afghan special forces interpreter who came here having done valiant work during Operation Pitting. His mother, father and siblings left Afghanistan and ended up in Ukraine of all places, and they moved to the UK last year. The Home Office gave them temporary leave to remain, only for them to receive a letter in the past couple of months saying that they would have to be deported back to either Afghanistan, Ukraine or Rwanda. In that case I interceded and the Minister’s office helped, but what is going on between his Department and the Home Office?

[James Heappey]

From the question, I can see all sorts of ways in which that might present quite a confusing case to colleagues in the Home Office, especially if those in Ukraine proceeded to the UK under a mechanism other than the Afghan relocations and assistance policy. May I look at the detail of the case and come back to the right hon. Gentleman, rather than speculate?

Veterans Update

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. If the truth be known, I do not think I ever got an A in anything. Maybe I am finishing this job without being found out.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I warmly welcome the report and pay tribute to the campaigners. Recommendation 16 refers to pensions, and the issue has already been raised as to whether survivors will be beneficiaries. Can I stress that that needs looking at? Recommendation 28 relates to financial compensation. The MOD set the Committee a maximum of £50 million as a cap on what could be paid in compensation. I urge the Secretary of State not to use that as a way of keeping compensation payments down to keep the Treasury happy. Could he also clarify—I know that the Veterans Minister is not here today for the announcement—who will implement the recommendations?

[Mr Wallace]

I am happy to write to the right hon. Gentleman to clarify the pathway to the pension, which is important.

First and foremost, we recognise that there should be a financial award. Secondly, as I said, it is important that we work with people like Fighting With Pride on how we can do that. The Minister for Veterans’ Affairs is sitting right above the right hon. Gentleman, and the implementation will predominantly be done by the Ministry of Defence, but some recommendations are cross-Government. No doubt the right hon. Gentleman and I, from the Back Benches, will write to the Treasury.

Defence Command Paper Refresh

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

We can argue about size, but we have to make sure that whatever we put in the field is properly equipped and enabled, and is effectively 360°. That is really important. We therefore have to be honest about the size of our defence budget envelope. There is no point pretending that we can have huge numbers without a defence budget to match. I have been determined throughout my tenure that this is not purely a numbers game, and I know my hon. Friend gets that. Many of his suggestions were incorporated into this Command Paper, because the lessons of Ukraine show that, yes, we need infantry and tanks, but also that we can sometimes dominate the ground without even being there.

The proliferation of cheap drones and the use of highly accurate artillery allow fewer people to cover or dominate more area. I went to see a frontline corps commander in Ukraine, and he had nearly 1,000 cheap unmanned aircraft systems at his disposal every day. At any one time, he might have 80 or 90 up in the air, which gives him the ability to dominate ground without necessarily having mass. I get that, ultimately, the ground has to be taken, but let us make sure the people who take the ground are properly protected and equipped so they can hold it, otherwise Russian forces will take the ground and kill them.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

May I first thank the Secretary of State for his service? We have known each other for 20-plus years, and he has always been a strong advocate for defence. He said in his statement that in 2019 he got a 10% increase for the defence budget. He failed to tell the House that one of the problems he faces is the 16% cut, from 2010 to 2019, in the defence budget. The Command Paper says that the first priority is homeland defence and our NATO commitments. It also announces a new global response force. How can we commit to doing both well without substantially increasing the defence budget?

[Mr Wallace]

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s comments. We both went to Washington in 2006 to lobby for a waiver from the International Traffic in Arms Regulations and we are very close to getting it. That is my point, if you think this Department is quick and easy. I had hair back then. If we get the ITAR waiver over the line, it will be one of the things I will be proud of.

It is possible to have a global response force and to dedicate it to NATO. We allocate our NATO forces by giving them to the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, but those forces are able to be used elsewhere, unless he calls on them. That is often how we do it, so it is perfectly possible to have a global response force, with elements of it elsewhere if it is not called upon by the Supreme Allied Commander Europe. Of course, if NATO calls on the force under article 5 or something else, that will be the priority. Our forces, more often than not, are absolutely dedicated to NATO and the security of Europe.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

I am delighted that NATO will host its new Maritime Centre for the Security of Critical Undersea Infrastructure in the UK. The centre is part of NATO’s long-term plan to better secure our undersea infrastructure. Bringing together allies and industry, the centre will result in greater situational awareness and sharing of intelligence, expertise and innovation. It will also complement the latest Royal Navy ship, RFA Proteus, whose job is to go out and monitor critical supply lines and cyber cables.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

NATO was created to protect democracy and safeguard the values that underpin it. A year ago, the NATO Parliamentary Assembly passed a resolution, under the presidency of Congressman Gerry Connolly, to create a democracy resilience centre within NATO. I understand that this has been agreed by all nations bar one. I wonder whether at the upcoming summit the Secretary of State can put some effort behind persuading that one member to agree to this initiative.

[Mr Wallace]

I think it is best if I write to the right hon. Member about the details of that. I will look at it and am happy to discuss with him what he thinks needs to progress. We will get to the bottom of it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Monday 15th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

Building complicated machines such as submarines has the benefit of a long and broad supply chain. The AUKUS model will be truly collaborative: while based on a UK submersible ship nuclear replacement, I expect it over time to be built by Australian hands and with United States skills and supply chains, which will provide opportunities to both countries, alongside ourselves. That is good news for British industry, for skills in places such as Barrow-in-Furness, and for our alliances with Australia and the United States.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his response to that question. I visited Australia last year and saw the great work that the Australians are undertaking on AUKUS; it is a great national endeavour. Is he confident that in the UK the Department for Business and Trade and others realise that if we are to get the benefit of this exciting project, we need that national endeavour here, especially on skills and technology across Government?

[Mr Wallace]

The right hon. Gentleman will know that getting sign-off on a project such as this involves engagement across Government, including getting the Treasury’s buy-in. Once that has been locked in, we can progress. I am confident that the whole of Government stand behind the project, which is important not just to regenerate places such as Cumbria and the north-west but to lock in the skills base that we need for our future. This is a very exciting project. It will be building long after the right hon. Gentleman and I have probably left this House, in many decades to come. Britain has been at this game—nuclear submarines—for 70 years, and it is not something that one commits to and then backs out of. We expect Australia, alongside the United States and ourselves, to be doing this for a very long time to the benefit of British jobs.

Top Secret Document Leaks

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: these leaks, as unfortunate as they are, only benefit one group of people, and that is our competitors and adversaries in the world who mean us harm. Whatever heroic intentions those responsible for these leaks may think they have, they are wrong. They risk the safety of our armed forces, and they compromise the work that we and our allies are doing around the world to stand up to the challenge to the rules-based international order that we so strongly believe in.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I concur with his views about the close relationship that we rely on with not just the United States but our other Five Eyes partners. The Intelligence and Security Committee has not yet met to discuss this issue, and it is the only Committee of Parliament that will be able to look at the classification of material that is covered. It is right not to make any pre-emptive statements about what has been in the press, but if we do decide that we wish to look at this—and there is a good chance that we will—can he confirm that we will get full co-operation from not only Defence Intelligence but other intelligence agencies in pursuing the rightful questions that we, uniquely, can ask in the closed environment in which we meet?

[James Heappey]

In the interests of not only expectation management but accuracy, I will say to the right hon. Gentleman that I will ensure we do all that we are allowed to do and that the Committee is serviced with whatever is releasable, accepting, of course, that the content that has been leaked is US content, which might mean that that is very difficult for us to do.