Ben Wallace
Main Page: Ben Wallace (Conservative - Wyre and Preston North)Department Debates - View all Ben Wallace's debates with the Ministry of Defence
(10 months ago)
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Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The Government have injected more than £29 billion of additional funding into defence since 2020, investing in Army modernisation, major platforms such as Type 26, Type 31, Challenger 3 and F-35, and restocking of ammunition to ensure that we reversed the hollowing out of our armed forces that has occurred under successive Governments for the past 30 years.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
I thank the Secretary of State for that response, but only recently the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe said that Britain is “just holding on” to its status as one of NATO’s leading members and that our Army is “too small”. A former Chief of the Defence Staff said that all of our armed forces are too small, with the Army having “significant capability deficiencies”. The Government are failing our forces, are they not?
Mr Wallace
It is interesting, because of course it was Labour that cut 19 battalions from the Army when I was serving under the hon. Member’s Government. What is important is not just that the Army is the right size but that it is an Army that is properly equipped and able to do its job. Having just numbers and non-equipment leads to the place where we had Snatch Land Rovers in Afghanistan under her Government.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
I endorse the words of my Defence Committee colleague, the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck). The Secretary of State himself has used the words
“the hollowing out of our Armed Forces”.
Today, the Head of the Army said at the Royal United Services Institute’s land warfare conference that our world is heading back into the 1930s with growing threats. Does the Secretary of State agree that the Treasury’s argument for increasing Defence spending to 2.5% of GDP when the economics improve is not only naive but illogical, because our economy and our national security are one and the same thing? We need to invest in our Army, Air Force and Navy now, not when Britain’s economy improves.
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend makes an important point about levels of Defence spending. First, spend on the Army is 20% higher since I started as Defence Secretary, and I have made sure that a greater proportion of that spend is on catching up and modernising the armed forces, which had been neglected all the way back to Afghanistan and Iraq, where we were spending money on urgent operational requirements rather than the core budget to modernise that equipment.
On my right hon. Friend’s point about the Treasury, it has accepted—the Chancellor did so at the Dispatch Box—that Defence will require a greater share of public spending. Part of the big challenge is recognition across Government and in Whitehall that the culture has changed, with Defence requiring a greater proportion of spend if it is to defend these shores and indeed our people. That is how it used to be. I am confident that the Prime Minister’s support for 2.5% and the Chancellor’s position puts us on the right path, and of course that could not be needed quicker.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
In January, the Defence Secretary admitted that his Government have “hollowed out and underfunded” our armed forces and, in the past week, a string of senior military figures have agreed. NATO’s second-in-command said that the British Army is “too small”, a former Chief of the Defence Staff said
“The Army is now too weak”,
and another ex-CDS said:
“The hollowing out of warfighting resilience within the Armed Forces has been the single most obvious shortfall…since 2010”.
Will the Defence Secretary halt this hollowing out in his new Defence Command Paper? Will it be published this month, as he has promised?
Mr Wallace
Time and again the right hon. Gentleman comes to this House knowing full well that my statements on hollowing out are not about this Government but about successive Governments for the past 30 years. Mr Speaker, I ask you to look at that statement, because it verges on misleading the House. The right hon. Gentleman knows that is a fact; I have consistently pointed out that that is not the case, but he continues to use it in this House.
We have started to reverse through an increase of £29 billion in the core funding of the armed forces. Whatever I have done with that new money, I have made sure that it is there to properly equip and support all the people of the armed forces. There is no point playing a numbers game when men and women could be sent to the frontline without the right equipment. All we see from the Opposition is a numbers game with no money attached.
John Healey
I have the Secretary of State’s exact words here. After inviting me to get Labour’s shortcomings off my chest, he said:
“I am happy to say that we have hollowed out and underfunded.”—[Official Report, 30 January 2023; Vol. 727, c. 18.]
He boasts about being the longest serving Tory Defence Secretary, but in four years he has failed to halt that hollowing out; he has failed to fix the broken procurement system; he has failed to win fresh funding this year, even to cover inflation; and he has failed to stop service morale reaching record lows. Does he not find it a national embarrassment for Britain to go to next month’s NATO summit as one of only five NATO nations that has not rebooted defence plans since President Putin invaded Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
On that quote, I asked if he would admit that Labour had hollowed out during its term of office. How convenient it is to forget that the whole point is that, in the 30 years following the cold war, successive Governments pushed defence to the side and not to the centre. He talks about my defence record; let us look at defence procurement, since he is fond of coming to the Dispatch Box about that. In 2009 under Labour, 15% of armed forces projects were over cost and the average delay was 28%. Now, 4% are over cost and 15% of each project is delayed. We cut the bureaucracy in Defence Equipment and Support from over 27,000 to 11,400. That is value for money. At the same time, we have a real increase in the defence budget and we have injected £29 billion of additional funding.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The UK continues to be recognised as a leading nation providing military support to Ukraine, training more than 17,000 recruits and providing £2.3 billion-worth of support last year and this year. We have sent hundreds of thousands of rounds of artillery ammunition, thousands of missiles and hundreds of armoured vehicles. We have led the world on gifting vital capabilities such as multiple launch rocket systems, Challenger 2 and Storm Shadow missiles.
Jason McCartney
As well as contributing through the international fund for Ukraine and the Ukraine defence contact group, I really welcome that the UK has contributed an additional £60 million to NATO’s comprehensive assistance package for Ukraine, which focuses on capacity building in key areas such as cyber and logistics. What is my right hon. Friend’s assessment of whether Ukraine is receiving the right kind of assistance from NATO to support its longer-term ambitions for NATO membership?
Mr Wallace
NATO’s comprehensive assistance package for Ukraine is providing urgent non-lethal assistance to enable the defence of Ukraine. The CAP also focuses on meeting Ukraine’s longer-term needs, including reconstruction and transition to NATO standards, which are essential for countries wishing to join the alliance. Since February 2022, the UK has contributed £82 million to the CAP.
Vicky Ford
In the past few days there have been deeply alarming reports in our press that Russian forces may have placed highly destructive mines at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the risk of a major nuclear incident?
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend asks a very important question about the risk posed by Russian activity not only within its own borders, but in Ukraine and at the nuclear power station of Zaporizhzhia. Sadly, Russia has shown no restraint in using munitions against civilian structures, critical national infrastructure, hospitals, surgeries and so on, which add to the long list of war crimes that it has clearly been engaged in. We monitor it very closely. We work with the international community to ensure that everything that can be done is done to protect the nuclear power station, and to remind Russia, not only through us but through third countries, of its obligations to protect the civilian population.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I fully support the provision of all the munitions that we have been able to give to Ukraine. I hope we will be able to continue to do that for the foreseeable future, and certainly until Putin loses. It seems that quite often different allies of Ukraine are giving different kinds of bits and pieces of armament and munitions, and that that does not necessarily add up to more than the sum of its parts. Would it not be better if we now looked to the future by commissioning jointly, so that we get more matériel at cost directly through to Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman makes a really important point. To better co-ordinate the gifting, at the beginning we set up the International Donor Co-ordination Centre, with about 80 British personnel in the lead, alongside the United States, to ensure that what Ukraine is asking for is what it gets and that it is co-ordinated across the international community, because we all have different armouries. In recognition of his very important point about how we develop and encourage a sustainable supply chain to Ukraine, Britain alongside Denmark set up the international fund for Ukraine. We committed £250 million last year and another £250 million this year, and it is topping up towards €1 billion-plus of funding. One specific task is to commission effectively from supply chains and manufacturing plants, so that there is a long-term solution to the need and munition is rolling off production lines. We all have finite stocks, which is why we will use the cash in the fund to start commissioning, which we have already done.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
The Liberal Democrats support the Secretary of State on the supply of arms and equipment to Ukraine for its sovereign defence. Has he assessed what effect the Storm Shadow missile has had on operations? Will he tell us whether other allies, such as the United States, also intend to provide long-range precision guided missiles?
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. My understanding is that the Storm Shadow missile has had a significant impact on the battlefield. Its accuracy and ability to deliver successfully the payload, as sent and designed by the Ukrainians, has been almost without fault. That is an extraordinary achievement in terms of both the engineering that went into it, and the Ukrainians deploying it and using it as it needs to. It has had an effect on the Russian army, mainly around its logistics and command and control. That shows the importance of deep fires. We absolutely urge other international partners to come forward with their deep fires that are required. When HIMARS was put in on the M270s, which have a range of 80 km, that had a similar effect and the Russians moved many of its C2 nodes out of range, which is why deep fires became important. The key is to recognise that if the Russians move out of range, we must work together internationally to provide the equipment to ensure they are back in range.
Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con)
Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
I regularly engage with NATO allies, including most recently at the NATO Defence Ministers’ meeting on 15 and 16 June, at which we demonstrated our continued solidarity with Ukraine and preparations for the upcoming Vilnius leaders’ summit. We lobbied hard and successfully for Finnish NATO membership, resulting in Finland’s historic accession, and we hope to achieve the same for Sweden before long.
Tom Randall
I welcome the announcement at the NATO Defence Ministers’ conference that NATO has agreed a new UK-based maritime centre to support the security of undersea infrastructure. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that this new centre is part of a long-term plan for the alliance to secure better critical undersea infrastructure? Can he provide any further details on the role of this new unit?
Mr Wallace
I am delighted that NATO will host its new Maritime Centre for the Security of Critical Undersea Infrastructure in the UK. The centre is part of NATO’s long-term plan to better secure our undersea infrastructure. Bringing together allies and industry, the centre will result in greater situational awareness and sharing of intelligence, expertise and innovation. It will also complement the latest Royal Navy ship, RFA Proteus, whose job is to go out and monitor critical supply lines and cyber cables.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
NATO was created to protect democracy and safeguard the values that underpin it. A year ago, the NATO Parliamentary Assembly passed a resolution, under the presidency of Congressman Gerry Connolly, to create a democracy resilience centre within NATO. I understand that this has been agreed by all nations bar one. I wonder whether at the upcoming summit the Secretary of State can put some effort behind persuading that one member to agree to this initiative.
Mr Wallace
I think it is best if I write to the right hon. Member about the details of that. I will look at it and am happy to discuss with him what he thinks needs to progress. We will get to the bottom of it.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Ind)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
As part of its summer campaign to reclaim illegally occupied territory, Ukraine has already recaptured approximately 300 sq km. That is more territory than Russia has seized in its whole winter offensive. Ukraine continues to make gradual but steady tactical progress, undertaking major offensive operations on three main axes in the south and eastern Ukraine. In Rohan, Russian forces have made their own significant effort to launch an attack on the Serebrianka forest near Kreminna. Russia has had some small gains, but Ukrainian forces have prevented a breakthrough. In Donetsk oblast, Ukraine has gained impetus in its assaults around Bakhmut. In multiple brigade operations, Ukrainian forces have made progress on both the north and southern flanks of the town. Russia does not appear to have the uncommitted ground forces needed to counter the multiple threats that it is now facing from Ukraine, which extends over 200 km from the Bakhmut to the eastern bank of the Dnieper river.
Scott Benton
What discussions are the Government having with other NATO members to ensure that every member of the alliance meets the 2% spending targets?
Mr Wallace
As the Vilnius summit approaches, it is very important that we recommit, and get other nations to recommit, to the targets and to make sure that 2% is viewed as a floor, not a ceiling. It is regrettable that only seven to eight nations in NATO are reaching that target. Britain is, of course, above the 2%. This is very important, because freedom is not free; we have to pay for it in the end.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
The Prime Minister told last week’s Ukraine recovery conference that
“we will maintain our support for Ukraine’s defence and for the counter offensive”.
With the developments in recent days, surely now is the time to accelerate, not just maintain, our military support for Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
Our support for Ukraine is made up of £2.3 billion, not all of which is committed. We continue to make sure that whatever Ukraine needs, we can try to give it or, if we do not have it, to use our network around the world to access it on their behalf. It is also important to ensure that we all focus on this offensive and give Ukraine what it needs for the offensive. The key test will be getting through all those defensive lines and ensuring that Russia is pushed back and is challenged from going into effectively a frozen conflict, which of course Russia would like. While it is easy for us to say that from the comfort of London, it is important to note that there are Ukrainian men and women going through minefields and horrendous obstacle crossings and facing an army that commits war crimes every single day.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Mr Wallace
I would say that I am optimistic. In my phone call with my new Turkish counterpart last week, that was one of the first subjects I raised. I have also spoken consistently and on many occasions with Türkiye and its leadership. I am confident that we will get there in the end. Sweden has made significant strides in its counter-terrorism legislation to deal with some of the issues that Türkiye has raised, and I think Türkiye now recognises that as a strong effort.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab)
Mr Wallace
A whole range of agencies, including the 77th Brigade, will study media platforms that deliver social media to our citizens in this country. If that comes from a foreign state trying to manipulate our young people, it is obviously a concern. As a former Security Minister I saw the radicalisation, exploitation and sexual exploitation of people through those platforms, and we should all be grateful that those systems are monitored.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend asks an important question about the Vilnius summit, which comes at an important moment for NATO and on the heels of war in Europe and the invasion of Ukraine. The summit will also be an important transition where NATO allies build on the commitments they made at the Madrid summit and go further and faster to bolster Euro-Atlantic security. The UK remains committed to supporting Ukraine for as long as it takes. The most powerful deterrent is our commitment to article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty, backed up by modern, credible forces, and that continues to hold firm.
Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point about the role of Belarus. First, we should recognise that, so far in this illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia, Belarus has simply supported through the use of its bases, but has itself committed no forces, and the international community would very clearly warn Belarus that it should not do so and join Russia in the folly it is engaged in. It is, of course, a deep concern when we see Russia trying to use Belarus as a sort of satellite state or, indeed, a place to put its nuclear weapons. We keep that under constant review, and we make sure, in the strongest possible terms, that Belarus is aware of the international concerns about its behaviour.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
The war in Ukraine will have given us some insight into Russia’s war tactics. The defence Command Paper will soon be published, and it will look at investment decisions for the British Army and the armed forces in general from the 2030s and beyond. What lessons have been learned from the war in Ukraine? Can the Secretary of State give us some insight into what sort of investment will be undertaken?
Mr Wallace
The defence Command Paper will be published before recess—I hope that it will be published sooner rather than later; it is currently in the write-round process with the rest of Government—and we will make sure that we recognise what has happened in Ukraine. One of the biggest lessons of Ukraine is that, whatever army we commit, we must make sure that it is protected 360° with air defence, electronic warfare, signals intelligence and the ability to reach at range.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
Forty years ago, Sir Galahad was struck during the Falklands crisis, and many Welsh Guardsmen lost their lives and burned to death. I have just attended a meeting of the widows and children, and some of the veterans, who have been desperate to get to the bottom of exactly why that happened but have been blocked through “no releases”. I beg my right hon. Friend to allow colleagues from across the House to come and see him about the release of that information.
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend might like to know that former colleagues of mine from the Household Division—from the Welsh Guards and others—have also been in contact with me. I have asked to see the papers that have not been released. I am not sure what powers I have to overrule decisions that were made earlier, but I think that that is important for closure and for relatives to get to the bottom of their questions.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)
I accept that we will hear a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office statement in due course, but given the events over the weekend, what assessment has the MOD made of Ukraine’s ability to win in Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
The United Kingdom has always been confident that, given the right international support, leadership and investment, Ukraine can defend its nation and see off this aggressive, illegal Russian invasion.
Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)
The armed forces continuous attitude survey results have just been published. They show that less than a third of personnel believe that their basic pay is adequate, and nearly a quarter are looking to leave the forces. Will the Secretary of State admit that it is high time that he increased basic pay across the public service, but especially for those in uniform?
Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)
Nowhere does events as well as my Southport constituency. This weekend’s Armed Forces Day was truly testament to that fact, so would my right hon. Friend welcome and support an application from Southport to host the national Armed Forces Day in 2025?
Mr Wallace
May I place on record our gratitude to Cornwall Council and Falmouth, and all the organisers of the national Armed Forces Day this year—the town laid on an extraordinary event, which was a great tribute to the men and women of the armed forces—as well as all the other local authorities that laid on events up and down the country? Of course I would welcome a bid from Southport; I will also welcome bids from all over the country, and I look forward to this becoming a growing competition to recognise the men and women of our armed forces.
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
On 24 October 2021, the former Defence Minister, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Jeremy Quin), wrote to my predecessor and confirmed that a badly injured veteran in my constituency would receive adaptations to his home. Delays ensued, and last week I had a meeting with someone from the Defence Infrastructure Organisation, in which he declined to turn his camera on and said that the work had not been signed off by a person with the right authority. Will the Minister confirm whether the former Minister had the authority, and will he honour that commitment?
Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
As we have already heard, we were lucky enough to welcome the national armed forces family to Falmouth on Saturday for the national Armed Forces Day. From cadets to veterans, and those involved in their air display and all the national armed forces personnel, will the Secretary of State join me in thanking everybody for their efforts, and does he agree that this was the best Armed Forces Day we have ever experienced?
Mr Wallace
My hon. Friend is certainly the best MP for Falmouth. She has been very good at lobbying and making the case for Falmouth, which put on an excellent event, although I am not going to risk insulting all the previous locations, which all did a fantastic job as well.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
With the MOD estate an outlier in allowing trail hunting on its land, and with the memorandum of understanding to allow hunt monitoring access having been torn up—something determined personally by the Defence Secretary—will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that his delayed statutory response in terminating the MOU will be answered, and will he instruct an independent review of hunting on the MOD estate and the activities of the Royal Artillery Hunt? Or has he something to hide?
Mr Wallace
Nothing to hide. To hunt on my Department’s land, an organisation must have a recognised governing body. All persons participating in a hunt must be members of such an organisation, and that organisation must also hold an MOD-issued licence, the terms of which clearly state that only trail hunting carried out in accordance with the provisions of the Hunting Act 2004 are permitted. I withdrew the MOU—which had never been announced to Parliament under the hon. Lady’s party’s previous Government—because the only people who should be masked and camouflaged on MOD land are soldiers in training, not hunt saboteurs.