Defence: UK Territorial Waters

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Tuesday 24th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am sure my noble friend will appreciate that for reasons of national security I cannot discuss the detail of such events, as to do so could allow conclusions to be drawn on the UK’s capabilities. However, I can reassure the noble Lord, Lord West, and my noble friend that we take the security of our maritime boundaries very seriously.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate the sensitivity of this, but can the noble Lord go a bit further and tell us whether we have an estimate of activity around the waters of Scotland and whether the Scottish Government are aware of any problems of this nature? Although it is not a matter for them, it is a matter of interest to the people of Scotland.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, again, I am sorry to disappoint the noble Lord; I cannot discuss this issue, but I can tell him that defence is a reserved issue and is not the business of the Scottish Government. We will not compromise on the defence of the United Kingdom.

Russia: Armed Forces

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the Russian ambassador committed to giving a full explanation in writing of that long-range bomber activity.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, is not the problem for Russia and the former Soviet Union that there is now growing instability? As the Minister said, this is clearly a matter for NATO and the UK, but it is also for the European Union to have some sort of strategy towards Mr Putin’s policy, which is in acute danger of causing either another cold war or something worse.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord has made a very good point, and these are all issues which will be discussed at the NATO Defence Ministers meeting being held in Brussels today.

Al-Sweady Inquiry Report

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Wednesday 17th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, yes. I am well aware of the point my noble friend makes.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

As a country that promotes the rule of law, I think we can be proud of this report in the face of such serious allegations. It does us a great service overseas when people can see our open and free system of justice. I do not wish to repeat the many points that have been made, the vast bulk of which I agree with, but I want to make a suggestion to the noble Lord. Over the past 20 years or so, and not just in military cases, I have noticed a tendency in the legal profession when handling high-profile cases to make statements to the media in which they often do not make it clear that there must be a presumption of innocence, not a presumption of guilt. I wonder if the noble Lord would consider putting it to the Attorney-General that he needs to engage in discussions with the professional bodies representing the legal profession to make sure that when statements are made, lawyers, barristers, solicitors and anyone else should always make it absolutely clear that there must be a presumption of innocence, even in the most difficult of cases.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

I very much agree with the noble Lord that any statement to the press should point out the presumption of innocence. I know that the noble Lord takes a great interest in this subject, and indeed I think I sat next to him on a C17 going out to Afghanistan a few years ago.

Ministry of Defence: Use of Biofuels

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Monday 7th July 2014 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Soley, for giving us the opportunity to debate what is an important issue, as he said. I have listened carefully to his speech and I will, of course, do my very best to address the points that he has raised. I may not have jotted down all his questions, but I have got one or two and I shall certainly write to him with the answers and make sure that I include all other noble Lords who have taken part in the debate.

Before I start, it would be helpful if I placed the issue of biofuels in its wider context. In 2011, the MoD published its sustainable development strategy, which provides direction on what defence must do to become increasingly sustainable during the period 2011 to 2030. The strategy recognised that sustainable development offered a number of benefits to defence, including one that is particularly pertinent to this debate. To quote directly from the strategy:

“Less reliance on fossil fuels in theatre will reduce the amount of fuel that has to be transported to the front line; a costly, risky and logistically resource-intensive activity that can undermine operational continuity”.

I think that the noble Lord made that point. In seeking to attain this benefit, the MoD has set the Armed Forces a target to reduce fossil fuel consumption for equipment and operations by 18% by 2020. I am sure that the noble Lord will welcome this, but I want to be clear that we will look to use the most appropriate opportunities to meet this reduction and that the use of biofuels may be only one option to meet that target. It would be short-sighted to concentrate our resources on only one possible energy solution.

As I have frequently said in this House, the Ministry of Defence already uses biofuels. They are used for road transport where EU legislation obliges manufacturers to include a percentage of biofuels in the fuel they produce. I think that was my original Answer to the noble Lord’s Oral Question. I add that the Defence Infrastructure Organisation is also looking at the application of biofuels in heating systems. Biofuels for marine and aviation use is a more complicated issue and is governed by the requirements and approvals of the Ministry of Defence’s equipment manufacturers.

The noble Lord has today and previously given a number of examples of what other countries are reported to be doing to increase the use of biofuels in both ships and aircraft. The results of the performance of these fuels are shared through equipment manufacturers and international forums such as the Air and Space Interoperability Council. The Ministry of Defence’s Defence Equipment and Support fuel team ensures that it stays up to date with this research, and I am not sure that the position in other countries, as described by the noble Lord, is quite as positive as he suggests. The use of algae-based fuel by the United States Air Force, for instance, is proving to be more difficult than originally envisaged, particularly with regard to quality control and the consequent risk to airworthiness. For this reason the USAF is proceeding with caution with the use of biofuels. Moreover, I understand that the USAF is now focusing its attention on synthetic fuel as the alternative fuel of choice.

The noble Lord mentioned an Italian ship. I will look into that as I am very interested in what he said, and I will write to him on that. There are also other well documented problems in using biofuels, such as the impact of biofuel production on agriculture and forestry, although I acknowledge that what have been termed “advanced biofuels”, such as those based on algae, do not compete with those activities.

The introduction of a new technology is never an easy ride; there will always be problems to overcome, and I do not want to give the impression that the MoD is dismissive or complacent about the potential benefits of biofuels: far from it. The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, on behalf of the MoD, has a resilience research programme that is actively researching alternative fuels—that is, fuels derived partly or wholly from traditional or non-traditional sources—for use across the whole of the MoD, including ships, aircraft, generators and fuel depots.

This activity underlines our commitment to a sustainable development strategy in order to achieve a number of benefits for defence: utilising a varied energy supply base; reducing exposure to price instabilities; increasing operational freedom; and reducing defence’s impact on the natural environment. The potential use of biofuels is a part of this research programme. The noble Lord mentioned Admiral Morisetti’s visit to the United States and his recommendations. Again, I will look into that and write to the noble Lord.

Furthermore, I am pleased to report that in September this year we will create an MoD strategic fuel authority, which will be responsible for a fully co-ordinated approach to fuels assurance, governance, capability management, supply chain and requirements. It will provide a technical authority for defence fuels and engage with other government departments, industry, NATO and key allies. It will also identify research and development activities to support the extended use of alternative fuels by the MoD. I hope the noble Lord is happy to hear that. I can, of course, supply him with further information about what we are planning. I am sure that the Committee will welcome this initiative. I hope I have demonstrated the MoD’s clear commitment to researching the application of alternative fuels in the defence environment. The potential benefits are huge. It is crucial that the MoD stays at the forefront of these developments, and I am confident that it will.

I mentioned the noble Lord’s questions and undertook to answer them. My noble friend Lord Palmer asked whether the MoD had any contact with Defra or any interested body about whether the use of biofuels affects food crops. He asked if the use of biofuels increases the cost of food. I am aware of the concerns about using biofuels and the impact on food production. The MoD does not consult directly with Defra on this issue, but there are cross-government discussions on the use of biofuels and sustainability in general. The MoD engages with the Department of Energy and Climate Change on increasing renewables on the defence estate.

My noble friend asked whether the MoD uses biofuels other than for road transport. The MoD uses biofuels for road transport where EU regulations oblige fuel manufacturers to include them—and only for that. However, the Defence Equipment and Support fuel team regularly engages with manufacturers to understand the latest research and how it may apply to the MoD. The new defence strategic fuel authority will also identify research and development activities to support the extended use of alternative fuels by the Ministry of Defence.

My noble friend asked about the use of biofuels by the Joint Strike Fighter and in the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. There are no current plans to use biofuels in the Joint Strike Fighter or the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. Further research is being undertaken for their use in aircraft, learning from the US lead in this area and obtaining gearing from international collaboration via NATO working groups. The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, in partnership with the DE&S defence airworthiness team and the Royal Navy’s 1710 Naval Air Squadron, is conducting materiels compatibility testing using synthetic fuel kindly supplied by the United States.

[Lord Soley]

The aircraft carriers will be with us for many decades. Is it not incumbent on us at this stage to do what other countries are doing and make them biofuel-capable or mixed fuel-capable? We are building two brand new aircraft carriers, so why are we not doing that?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

This is one of the areas that the organisation I mentioned will look into. Clearly the noble Lord raises a good point. It would be very unwise for us not to consider it down the road. The Armed Forces have a target to reduce fossil fuel consumption in equipment and operations by 18% by 2020.

My noble friend also asked if I can comment on studies showing that using land for energy crops is detrimental to food production and forestry. I am aware of the concerns about the use of biofuels on agriculture and forests but, as my noble friend said, this is really the responsibility of Defra. I shall need to consult government colleagues and will ensure that my noble friend receives a letter on this point. I will copy other noble Lords in on that.

My noble friend asked if the EU missed an opportunity in 2013 by failing to agree a cap on the use of biofuels. I shall again need to consult government colleagues and will ensure that my noble friend receives a letter on that point, too.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked several questions. I will have to write to him. One question was on what we are doing beyond road transport, but I cannot read the writing here. The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory has a resilience research programme that is actively researching alternative fuels for use across the whole of the MoD—in ships, aircraft, generators and fuel depots. I hope I have answered some of the questions I was asked. I look forward to writing and answering all the questions in full.

Armed Forces: Biofuels

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Monday 31st March 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con)]

My Lords, the Ministry of Defence uses biofuels for road transport where EU legislation obliges manufacturers to include a percentage of biofuels in the fuel they produce. The use of biofuels for marine and aviation use is governed by the requirements and approvals of the department’s equipment manufacturers. The Ministry of Defence is encouraging these manufacturers to work towards adopting biofuels in the future.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

Will the Minister put this on his agenda and take it forward? Is he aware that by 2020 the United States navy will be using ships and aircraft that use some 50% biofuels? These are not from farm produce; they are from algae and other fuels. The US air force is flying F18 high-performance jets on 50% biofuels. The Italians and the Dutch are using it, so will he—particularly on this day, bearing in mind the United Nations report—go back to his department and say, “We ought to be up there with them using biofuels in ships, planes and ground transport”? Will he also take that matter to NATO and, preferably, keep the House informed of his progress?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we are aware that the United States and the other countries mentioned by the noble Lord are experimenting with biofuels in their naval vessels and aircraft. The results of the performance of the fuels are being shared through equipment manufacturers and international forums such as the Air and Space Interoperability Council. The defence equipment and support fuel team regularly engages with manufacturers to understand the most recent research and how this might apply to the MoD’s fuel requirements in the future. Biofuels, however, are not the only answer, and the MoD will use the most appropriate solution available to reduce fossil fuel consumption, whether that is through using alternative technology or equipment, reducing activity levels, using alternative fuels or interoperability with our allies.

Defence: Type 26 Global Combat Ship

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Monday 2nd December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the build location will be confirmed after the main investment decision point. The UK Government are not planning for independence. Should Scotland decide to separate from the UK, it would no longer be eligible to bid for those contracts that are subject to exemptions from EU procurement rules to protect essential national security interests and are therefore placed or competed for within the UK. All the UK’s new complex warships are being built in UK shipyards, and we remain committed to using UK industry in this area.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

The Minister has just described the Type 26 as the backbone of the Royal Navy. The problem is that there are only 13 of them, and there does not seem to be any planning beyond that. I think that most of us are concerned about the long-term view of the Royal Navy for us as a maritime power, as was indicated in the first Question. Thirteen is not the backbone of a major maritime power.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord. The First Sea Lord has some very exciting plans for the future of the Royal Navy. The Type 26s we are planning, the three OPVs and, of course, the Type 45s which my noble friend mentioned, are all part of those exciting plans.

European Defence Agency

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the EDA has seen significant success in a number of capability areas; for example, as my noble friend said, helicopter training which has directly increased the number of pilots available for operations in Afghanistan. By enhancing the capabilities of smaller member states, we receive an indirect benefit through better burden-sharing in operations. I understand that 114 crews—that is 1,300 personnel—have been trained, of which 63 have been deployed to Afghanistan. My noble friend mentioned the air-to-air refuelling initiative. As part of pooling and sharing, the EDA is taking a lead in facilitating European capability development in this area. This has not yet delivered results but the initiative is at an early stage. This issue was highlighted in operations over Libya where the US provided the vast majority of air-to-air refuelling capability. If I may, I will write to my noble friend on the other achievements—European military air-worthiness, the requirements initiative, industry and markets, and the capability development plan.

[Lord Soley]

Are the Government looking at sharing with the French the facilities recently opened at RAF Waddington for the control of UAVs?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I went up to RAF Waddington a couple of weeks ago and saw for myself what the noble Lord has talked about. I cannot answer from the Dispatch Box whether the French will be involved in that. As I have said previously from the Dispatch Box on many occasions, I welcome as much co-operation with the French as possible. We are working with them in a lot of areas. Noble Lords may have seen in the Daily Telegraph today the photograph of our Royal Marines training off Corsica with the French marines.

Armed Forces: Overstretch

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I can confirm that. The Treasury has agreed to meet these costs from the reserves and, as the Chief of the Defence Staff has said, we can sustain this operation as long as we choose. On that I am absolutely clear.

[Lord Soley]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that it is a very widely held view in the Armed Forces and elsewhere—and I know him to be a thoughtful Minister on this—that we cannot go on with the assumption that there is no need to review the White Paper on defence? Frankly, both foreign policy and defence issues have changed so much in recent times that not to revisit it would be a disservice to our Armed Forces.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the SDSR was based on a thorough, realistic assessment of the threats we face now and could face in the future. It ensures that we can continue to conduct operations today while preparing our future force. Our rapid and highly effective contribution to the NATO mission to protect the Libyan people is testament to the flexibility and professionalism of our Armed Forces and proof that the UK has the capability to project power and influence at very short notice.

Libya

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Tuesday 24th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for acknowledging that we are right to review the options and reaffirming the need to get rid of Gaddafi. There is always a risk in using attack helicopters—although, as I have said, we have not made any decision on them. I am afraid that I must disappoint the noble Lord by saying that we have no plans to look again at the use of the Harriers.

[Lord Soley]

The Minister keeps many of us informed, for which I am grateful. He will know from discussions on Afghanistan that there is a difference between using the Apache there and using it in some of the urban areas in Libya. Are reports correct that one of the reasons that the French and British are looking at the possibility of deploying it is that Gaddafi’s army has discarded uniforms and is using civilian trucks and clothes? Is that the reason for the close attack?

We have a squadron of UAVs, or drones as they are popularly known. Are we considering using them in Libya, or they committed totally to Afghanistan?

Armed Forces Covenant

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Monday 16th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

I thank my noble friend for that question. Again, the issue is covered in one of these publications. We are giving a lot of thought to it and I will write to her on that issue.

[Lord Soley]

My Lords, I very much welcome the decision to have this covenant. However, is the noble Lord aware how complex this is going to get? I will give an example that has been touched on already. One of the main problems is service personnel who have been in the services for a long time, who have seen armed conflict and who come out and find it very difficult to settle. It is a question not just of housing. Consequent rates of suicide, attempted suicide, hospital admissions and prison admissions are all extraordinarily high, as the Minister knows. We ought to discuss—perhaps when we get into the detail of the Bill—whether there is not a more sophisticated role for Armed Forces charities, which could have some of the work outsourced to them. Ex-service personnel will often relate better to them than to local or national government institutions.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point. We always work very closely with service charities. One area that was raised by the noble and gallant Lord was that of veterans and mental health, where we work very closely with the charity Combat Stress, and with the NHS, to explore and develop appropriate models of care and support. We recently launched a 24-hour mental health helpline, run by the charity Rethink on behalf of Combat Stress, which is funded through the NHS.

Armed Forces: Redundancy

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I cannot add anything to my earlier answer. We in the department consider that these amounts are fair and generous to our Armed Forces.

[Lord Soley]

With respect, that is not really satisfactory. Could the Minister, who is very thoughtful on these matters, give the matter some thought and maybe put it in writing in a letter to the House? That would enable us to make a comparison. The point that has been brought up by the noble and gallant Lord is a very fair and important one. To have the rumour running around that this is meaner but fairer, or something of that nature, just plays into a demoralisation argument. Please do not go there.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord and the noble and gallant Lord raise a very important point. I am happy to put this in writing to the noble Lord, Lord Soley, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce. I will certainly deposit copies of those letters in the Library to clarify this issue.

Defence: Treaties with France

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Inglewood]

My Lords—

[Lord Soley]

I think that it is the turn of this side—my patience is being rewarded. I welcome the Statement and the two agreements, but I really do not like the spin on this and I should like the Minister to address that. The Statement goes on about our national interests and it is all put decoratively. However, the reality is that we are giving up some of our national individuality and we know it. If we look at this matter in the context of what has been happening in recent times, with far greater co-operation and involvement between British forces and European Union states, and indeed with the deployment for the first time this week of the armed European security police force on the borders of the European Union with full British support, there is an indication that we are moving, however slowly—perhaps over 10, 20 or 30 years—towards a European security defence movement. That is what is happening. This is just like the Tory party of the past when it said that the Single European Act and so on were nothing to do with European emergence. Will the Minister kindly drop the spin and recognise that that is the direction in which he is taking us?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I do not accept the premise that the noble Lord makes and I did not feel that I was putting any spin on the matter. I was simply trying to point out the reality of the situation.

Afghanistan

Debate between Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Soley

Wednesday 7th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble and gallant Lord for his question. I asked officials the same question, but I was told that I could not say more than “temporary”. I assure the noble and gallant Lord that it will be temporary. I add that there is still a company of our Armed Forces in Cyprus, so there will still be soldiers in reserve out there. They will be supported by a number of additional support troops, but I do not think they will be supported by aircraft.

[Lord Soley]

I am also in favour of briefings, and I welcome that offer. What plans do the Government have to combat the assumption that is already creeping into some aspects of the British media that British troops have had to leave the area because of casualties and so on? The barely hidden implication is that these casualties have been in vain because we have had to leave. This has happened before. We need a powerful media strategy to convey to the British media that when these military changes take place, there are good, rational reasons for them and they are not about being driven out, having to move out, giving in to the Americans or whatever. We need to get that message over. It may be one of the things the Minister ought to consider in his offer of briefings.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point. As the Secretary of State said in his speech in the other place, he is inviting the editors of all the national newspapers and other media to his office to give them a briefing in the hope that they will take a more positive line on the responsibilities we have out there. I look forward to seeing the noble Lord at some of the briefings that I am looking forward to having. I remember the happy times we had together in Afghanistan last year.