Armed Forces (Service Court Rules) (Amendment) (No. 2) Rules 2022

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

My Lords, I presume that prior to the very welcome rules female board members were never present. Was that the case? I am looking at Rule 3A(1). How often do these boards sit? One presumes it is as events dictate, but how many are there in the average year? What number are we dealing with? This issue is central to the rules and some numbers might help. Finally, can the Minister furnish an example of gender representation—a woman/she/they—on a given present board? Is an example available?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not wish simply to make things up. I have very little to say on this. However, the amendments to the rules that the Government have brought forward are important. I agree with the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and my noble friend Lord Jones.

From the various reports we have seen, there seems to be a real problem of confidence in some of the service justice system. To be fair to the Government, it is good to see them coming forward to adopt the recommendations of the review that they set up to look at this. These days, being commended is probably something the Government would welcome, but this is an important step forward in this case.

I sometimes wonder about overriding objectives. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, is right: this is not a sarcastic remark, but it is quite astounding that we have to say that a court must deal with people fairly—“justly”, according to the law—and that that needs to be written down in law. Having said that, I understand that it is something put down by Judge Lyons—fair enough.

I want to tease the Minister a bit politically here. I do not know whether she has passed this by all sections of the Government but I am absolutely delighted to see them recognising the rights of defendants, particularly under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights. It is absolutely wonderful that the Ministry of Defence is defending the convention and using it as a way of ensuring that courts operate—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Beith) (LD)]

There is a Division in the House. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I was in the process of welcoming the Armed Forces (Service Court Rules) (Amendment) (No. 2) Rules 2022, in particular their adoption of the recommendations of His Honour Shaun Lyons—we are pleased about that.

I was also congratulating the Minister on the MoD’s including the European Convention on Human Rights. I was excited to see it mentioned on page 2, but my excitement reached a crescendo when I saw it also mentioned on page 3. Then I turned over, and with just a scant look through I saw it mentioned again on page 5. That is before we get to the Explanatory Memorandum, which talks about the importance of the European Convention on Human Rights. Leo Docherty has said that the instrument is consistent with it.

It is important that the Minister outlines for the Committee how important she and the Ministry of Defence think retaining Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights is to the maintenance of the instrument before us. The Committee needs an explanation of that. She will be aware that many members of her own Government seem to think that the European Convention on Human Rights is not important, but I am pleased to see that the Minister and the Ministry of Defence have laid this instrument before us, which makes it clear through repetition that the European Convention on Human Rights is absolutely fundamental to this SI. Will the Minister ensure that all parts of the Government are aware of the importance the MoD attaches to the convention? Looking around the room, I am sure that a number of Committee Members are certainly well able to defend the Minister and help her in that respect, should she need it.

I think we would all welcome the addition of lay members to the court martial panel, and the gender balance. Can the Minister explain what a lay member is? I was speaking to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, about this. Our understanding is that a lay member is not a member of the public, so who is a lay member who becomes a member of the court martial board?

Given that the whole purpose of the change in new rule 34A is to try to ensure that initially, there are more effective procedures with respect to sexual offending, I think we are all pleased to see that the Government have now extended that to all offending. Can the Minister say how that will be monitored, and what we mean by lay members?

With those few comments, we welcome the instrument before us. It will be an improvement, and will hopefully lead to greater confidence in the service justice system.

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[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

That is what I am saying. Indeed, I add to that by observing that it would be profoundly undesirable if the Secretary of State, as a government Minister, were getting involved in the discharge of justice under what should be an independent criminal justice system, albeit within the services justice environment. It would be most undesirable for the Secretary of State to get involved. The Judge Advocate-General alone will decide what should or should not be done to take account of the need to maintain operational effectiveness.

I think I have dealt with the commentary of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, about why this is phrased as it is. It is not some cosy set of aspirations; it really is intended to deliver what has been working well in the civilian criminal justice system and to try to ensure that our services criminal justice system benefits from that. I thank her for her observation about the absence of her colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, who is, of course, always a welcome presence in these debates where legal issues arise. I am sure that he would have had some pithy observations to make on the technical content of the Sis, but I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for confining her remarks to general observations.

The noble Lord, Lord Jones, asked some specific questions, including how often the board sits. Court martial boards sit in assizes of two weeks with 24 periods in any year; that is, 48 weeks a year. The noble Lord also asked whether the measure of extending female representation on the court martial board should be extended to the judge advocates. There is a mix of men and women judge advocates now; we have both men and women. The role is being introduced to align better with juries where women are represented in civilian courts, but there has been under-representation in the analogous role within the services justice system.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, for his kind remarks about the SIs and where we have got to in delivering improvements for Armed Forces personnel. I particularly noted his phrase, “commend the Government”. It is certainly not something I have been hearing very regularly in recent times, and I thank him for that. On his reference to Article 6 of the ECHR, the MoD has consistently shown a desire to comply with human rights legislation and conventions, and the convention is an important part of the framework within which we operate; hence the various references to Article 6 throughout the SIs.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, also asked about the composition of a court martial board in general; I think that his question related to lay personnel. This measure will have an impact only on women in the Armed Forces at ranks of OR7 and above. To help your Lordships, I asked for clarification on this. In the Royal Navy, the rank of OR7 is chief petty officer; for the Royal Marines, it is colour sergeant; for the Army, it is staff colour sergeant; and, for the Royal Air Force, it is flight sergeant/chief technician. Service persons below that rank are not eligible to sit as lay members. Eligibility is currently set at OR8 personnel but from January next year it will be OR7. We are broadening the scope in the hope that this will facilitate the presence of more women. Also, as I said, there will be a 12-month exemption for women who have already sat. That is important, because it is a sizeable chunk out of otherwise operational time. If any woman has sat on a court martial board for more than five working days, this provision will prevent them repeatedly sitting on boards.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

This is a really important point, which, as I said, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and I were discussing. If somebody outside this Committee read our proceedings and saw the word “lay” they would assume that these people are members of the public, even though the instrument deals with non-service personnel and the military courts. The Minister putting this on the record is quite helpful for those who read our proceedings to understand exactly what we are talking about.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. We are sometimes guilty of using vocabulary in the environment with which we are all familiar. These are lay members who are not legally qualified; they sit as a presence roughly comparable to a jury. The noble Lord is right that they are “lay” not in the sense of any members of the public coming in but in the sense that they are in the Armed Forces and not legally qualified.

I have tried to address the points that were raised; I hope that I have managed to do so. I thank your Lordships for your contributions. This instrument takes us another step forward in making our service justice system stronger, better and fairer.

Armed Forces: LGBT Veterans

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

In fact, we do not have the numbers. That is one of the difficulties. As the noble Lord is probably aware, in the early 2000s, the MoD settled a number of claims from former members of the Armed Forces who had been dismissed for being LGBT. The compensation awarded to claimants consisted of damages for loss of earnings, loss of pension and injury to feelings.

We must not pre-empt what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, is undertaking. We should leave him as an independent reviewer to carry out his full scope of inquiry, analyse the responses, come to conclusions and decide what recommendations are important for the Government to look at. There is a need for consistency in how we seek to redress these issues.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has told us that the report by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, is due in May next year. At the moment, it is a stain on our country that thousands of LGBT servicepeople were discharged from service prior to 2000. Can she confirm that, when that report is published next May, the Government will respond to it quickly, take account of whatever the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, comes up with, and that we right this wrong?

Ukraine

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I stress once again our full support for the Government’s actions to support Ukraine against Russia’s illegal invasion. Yesterday, the Secretary-General of NATO made it clear that the recent missile attacks on many Ukrainian cities, including Kyiv, killing and injuring many innocent civilians, including children in their playgrounds, represent a significant escalation of the conflict. Can the Minister update the Chamber on the further provision of more anti-missile and anti-air capability, as requested by the Ukrainians? Can she also say how quickly that can be provided to enable the Ukrainians to deal with more attacks of this nature?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the tenor of his remarks, which is greatly appreciated. I think we all agree that what we witnessed from Russia in Ukraine was absolutely barbaric; it was brutalism, it was unforgivable, it was completely unacceptable, and indeed it constitutes a condition of war crimes. As the noble Lord will be aware, the UK has been very supportive and selective in the equipment that it has been offering. For example, we have found that artillery has played a huge part in this conflict, and we have supplied that. As he identified, air defence systems are extremely important. Monday’s attack shows that we were absolutely right to make bolstering Ukraine’s air defences a priority for UK military support. We are liaising on a daily basis with the Ukrainian Government, and we continue to respond to the requests to supply more defence and military equipment. I will be crystal clear to your Lordships: the MoD is utterly resolved to continue that support.

Defence: Type 45 Destroyers

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The response given at the time was a reflection of both industry and the department doing their best to advance the correction of the propulsion defects. As I have indicated to the Chamber, progress has certainly been made with “Dauntless” and is being made with “Daring” and “Dragon”. We are looking at the options as best we can to accelerate the programme and complete this as early as possible before 2028. However, as I said earlier, that must be balanced against the Royal Navy’s current and future operational commitments.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the question asked by my noble friend Lord Browne, that means that until 2028 we will not have a full complement of our Type 45 destroyers. Just a month or so ago, all six were in dry dock. Building on the question asked by my noble friend Lord West, does this not highlight once again that the Royal Navy is now too small? Waiting until 2028 for all six Type 45 destroyers to be fully available to the British Navy concerns us, particularly at a time of international crisis.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

Of course, implicit in my answer is that before 2028 we hope to have the ships returning to full working order. As the noble Lord is aware, “Defender” is currently conducting operations and defence engagement in the Mediterranean. We very much hope that the drumbeat of progress on restoring the propulsion system will continue. As the noble and gallant Lord said, these are very important ships. They are hugely capable and much admired across the world, and this improvement of the propulsion system is making them more resilient, adding to their admirable capability.

Royal Navy: F35B

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As my noble friend will be aware, the integrated review absolutely and sharply identified the principal threat as far as the UK is concerned as being Russia. That has now manifested itself in an ugly and defined shape. He will be aware that the spending review accorded to the Ministry of Defence a record-busting extra £24 billion over the course of this Parliament. That is indicative of the Government’s commitment to defence. Obviously, with the new Prime Minister and, I have to say, a very determined Secretary of State for Defence, I am sure that the future significance—as my noble friend has indicated—of our defence capability will be constantly highlighted.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister can see from the number of questions that people are really concerned to hear from the Government a firm commitment that we will have a sufficient number of aircraft for our aircraft carriers. That is why she has been pressed, and some of the reassurance she has given to the House today is good. On the use of the aircraft carriers, can she say a bit more about the trials that are going on, about UAVs being used off the carriers and where that has got to? What are the Government’s objectives and plans with respect to that? Will it impact on the numbers of F35Bs that are to be ordered? Also, more worryingly, what will it mean for the way the aircraft carriers are configured and will any changes be needed to accommodate that?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Lord will be aware, the F35 is a state-of-the-art aircraft and we are very pleased to have them. We are very pleased to be adding to our fleet and we look forward to these additions. They are already armed with very sophisticated weaponry, but the Royal Air Force intends to continue upgrading them with the wider programme and to equip them with UK weapons, which will include the UK-developed SPEAR Cap 3 and Meteor. To augment their strike capability and to complement and, perhaps, potentially replace some of the roles delivered by its crewed helicopters, the Royal Navy is exploring options for a range of uncrewed air systems.

Ukraine

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Coaker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the current military situation in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Goldie) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom remains very concerned by Russia’s illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and is tracking it very closely. We are liaising closely with Ukraine to understand its evolving priorities as we continue to support it in its fight. To date, we have committed £2.3 billion of military support, including lethal and non-lethal materiel, and to delivering training to thousands of armed forces of Ukraine personnel.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I start by saying that it is good to see the current Defence Secretary still in place. I also welcome the Prime Minister’s early call to the Ukrainian President. I ask specifically, following the helpful update that the Minister has just given us, about the forthcoming conference in Germany on Thursday. The Defence Secretary, in his Statement, told the other place that at that conference he hoped that money for the new international fund for Ukraine, currently at €420 million, would be added to. He also hoped that a number of measures, including ammunition supply, would be agreed to, to support a longer-term strategy for our support for Ukraine. What specifically are our objectives now for this conference and for the longer term? In particular, can the Minister reassure us around the crucial maintenance of European and NATO unity with respect to their policy and Ukraine?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks about the Secretary of State. I think the value of that continuity at this critical time is obvious to all, and I will relay those good wishes to him. As the noble Lord indicated, the meeting tomorrow at Ramstein is important. The Secretary of State will meet counterparts from literally dozens of like-minded partner nations to discuss our ongoing support for Ukraine. We are approaching autumn, which will be followed by winter; we anticipate that demands may slightly change in character and want to make sure that we are suitably positioned in the United Kingdom and with our partner nations to respond to them. I reassure the noble Lord that the aim of the conference is to cohere and co-ordinate the international effort to support Ukraine, and to send a clear message that the international community is united politically and practically and continues to devote itself with resolution, resolve and tenacity to this task of supporting Ukraine. We are also ensuring, with our partner nations, that we work with industry to sustain and maintain support to Ukraine.

Ukraine Update

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement from the Government today on the situation in Ukraine. It gives us the opportunity to restate, as my right honourable friend the shadow Defence Secretary did earlier in the other place, our united and continued support for the government effort to help Ukraine stand up to Russian aggression. It is a fundamental principle that we are standing for together with Ukraine—namely, that aggressors cannot be allowed to redraw international boundaries or borders by force.

On behalf of Her Majesty’s Opposition, I reiterate that we stand ready to work—again, as my right honourable friend the shadow Defence Secretary said in the other place—with the new Prime Minister and the Defence Secretary. We hope he keeps his post, and that the noble Baroness the Minister does so too. We will do all we can together to support Ukraine, because its fight is our fight.

The Statement today says that a network of training camps has been established across the UK with the aim of training 10,000 Ukrainians, which we support. Can the Minister say what the timeframe for this training is? Do the Government plan to increase the numbers we can and will train? Will the training be extended beyond the basic soldiering skills which are currently covered?

We welcome the continued military aid being given to Ukraine in terms of equipment, in particular the extra-long-range missiles and unmanned air systems. Are we able to meet the demand for these weapons with our NATO allies? Are we also able to replenish the domestic stockpiles that we have, and has the replacement of the NLAWs now started? Further, is the provision of this equipment designed to help the Ukrainians hold current ground or take back territory from the Russians? In other words, what strategy underpins our provision of this military equipment?

Western and NATO unity is essential in the face of Russian aggression. Critical to the maintenance of this unity is the ability of Governments to communicate the threat to their populations effectively given the difficulties their country faces. How do the Government intend to do this? Does the Minister agree that we are entering a critical new stage, with the conflict potentially at a new point? With Ukraine hitting ammunition dumps, airfields in Russian territory and command posts, Putin appears to be under increasing military pressure, and there are reports that he may well step up efforts to persuade the West to lean on Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire and to negotiations. What will we do to counter such activities, and can the Minister give us an update on NATO, European and western unity in the face of this?

What are the Government doing to explain that the energy crisis and supply chain disruption that we have seen are not a result of Russia’s war but an essential part of it? What will we do to help people through this cost of living crisis, and is the MoD talking to the Home Secretary about the continuation of the Homes for Ukraine scheme? How successful have we been with Turkey in ensuring that the additional 100 ships that the Minister mentioned which are waiting to leave Ukraine and ports in the Baltic Sea can leave? Can the Minister give us any update on when that might occur?

The Defence Secretary now appears to be using arguments that we have been making, saying at the end of the Tory leadership campaign that there are plans to update the integrated defence review, reconsider the shape of the Armed Forces and increase defence spending as a result of events in Europe. In the light of that and the lessons of the Ukraine conflict, when can we expect the stopping of the cuts to Army numbers of 10,000? That would be a great start to any independent review. Can the Minister give us any insight into when the update of the integrated review may take place?

Finally, notwithstanding the points and questions that I and others have made, we all want Ukraine with our support to succeed. It is testament to its determination, heroic bravery and determination that, with the help of the UK and our allies, it has withstood Russian aggression for over six months. Russia needs to know that we too are in this for the long haul if necessary, and together we will not waver from standing beside Ukraine in defence of the principles of freedom and democracy.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement.

Since we rose for the Summer Recess, the Ukrainian army has had some very significant successes and appears to be making extremely good use of the resources which we and our allies are providing it with.

We on these Benches, like the Opposition, remain supportive of the stance which the Government have taken in supporting the Ukrainian Government, and we welcome the initiatives that the Secretary of State has outlined in the Statement. I have just a few questions.

First, on Zaporizhzhia, the UN is quoted in the Statement as being concerned about the dangerous situation which still obtains there. In the light of that—presumably the UK Government agree with that assessment—what scenario planning has been undertaken to look at the potential fallout, literally, of a major nuclear release at Zaporizhzhia, which is by no means impossible?

On the gifting of military equipment, there will come a point—in some areas, we have probably reached it—when we have gifted all the equipment we have or cannot gift any more without our own capabilities being too far eroded. Can the Minister confirm that new orders are being placed to replace donated stock and/or produce new equipment which we can then simply gift directly from the factory to the Ukrainian army?

Training is one of the most commendable aspects of the work we have done, not least because we have been able to add a considerable amount of capacity at a very modest cost. I echo the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, on the future plans for this scheme in terms of both the number of soldiers involved and its scope. Is any training involving the Ukrainian air force and navy currently being undertaken or planned?

I want to ask about the scope of the international support fund. Is it limited, as I suspect it is, to arms and military supplies or does it extend to the concept of a broader Marshall plan for the reconstruction of Ukraine? We are going to need that at some point; I just wonder whether this initiative will form the nucleus of such a broader scheme.

It was reported in the FT today that the EU is to hold a summit of European states next month to build regional co-operation in the face of Russian aggression, and that the UK has been invited to participate. Can the Minister tell us whether the UK has indeed received such an invitation and, if so, whether it has responded to it? If the answer to the latter part of the question is no, I ask the Minister to urge her colleagues—not least the new Prime Minister—that it is crucial that the UK is represented at any such event so that we can both demonstrate the maximum degree of European unity on the issue and ensure that the UK exercises the maximum influence on the co-ordinated European response.

Finally, I want to ask a couple of questions about refugees. I accept that they may be beyond the Minister’s immediate remit but perhaps she could write to me if she cannot answer them. First, what is the Government’s plan for further support for Ukrainian refugees here once we have passed the six-month point? Secondly, how long do the Government envisage the scheme being open? At what point do they envisage themselves saying that the situation in Ukraine is stable enough for the scheme to end? Thirdly, what plans do the Government have to expand the support that British universities are giving to students from Ukraine, particularly in technical subjects such as medicine where, again, as with the basic military training, a small amount of expenditure could yield significant results for Ukraine’s future prospects?

Afghanistan: British Special Forces

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer and the tone in which she gave it. I think that will be welcomed by all of us. I welcome the point she made in her remarks about nobody being above the law and join with her in saluting the bravery of our Special Forces.

It is essential that we maintain the confidence that we all have in our Special Forces. I welcome again the statement by the Minister that, unless I have misunderstood—and this is very important—the Government have asked “Panorama” for any new evidence to be given to the Royal Military Police. Can the Minister confirm that any such new evidence, if handed over to the Royal Military Police, will be fully investigated in an independent way, maybe in a similar way to which the Australian inquiry took place? Is it actively pursuing again and again with the BBC for this new evidence to be given to it? When new evidence is given, the Royal Military Police can look at it and then we can move forward in ensuring that these very serious allegations of dropped weapons and suspicious deaths can be looked into and it can be determined by a proper independent inquiry whether anything further needs to be done.

Defence Spending Priorities: NATO Summit

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My noble friend refers to an important issue: how we transport that grain, if possible. Discussions are taking place among the different partner countries as to what solutions there might be. There are no Royal Navy craft in the Black Sea. My noble friend will be aware that the Montreux convention governs maritime activity there, and that has been deployed by Turkey.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, was not the most welcome outcome of the Madrid summit NATO’s agreement to admit Finland and Sweden? Far from weakening NATO, Putin’s actions have strengthened it. Alongside that, is it not clear that we need to review the cuts to tank numbers, cuts to C130 transport planes and cuts of 10,000 troops? Is the chair of the Defence Select Committee not right when he says that 2.5% of GDP on defence spending by the end of the decade is too little, too late?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

As the noble Lord is aware, people will have varying views on the appropriate percentage of GDP to spend on defence. We have laid down a clearly structured plan based on the integrated review and the defence Command Paper, and we regularly make available progress reports—for example, our annual review of the equipment plan—on where we are in the delivery of all that. We constantly assess need and identify and assess threat. We try to make sure that the two are aligned and that we meet the one with the other, and that is a sensible way to proceed.

Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2022

Lord Coaker Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2022 Lords Chamber

I hope your Lordships will support and approve this draft continuation order, which will provide the sound legal basis for our Armed Forces to continue to afford us their vital protection, which is more needed than ever in Europe’s new reality. I beg to move.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, we of course fully support this SI so that the Armed Forces Act 2006 can remain in force. It gives us a chance once again to offer the Armed Forces our full support and acknowledge all that they do, as the Minister said. The order is essential for the Armed Forces to be maintained as disciplined bodies. Indeed, it is as a result of this discipline that our Armed Forces are so successful in the discharge of their duties, whether at home or abroad, which she outlined for us. The need for our Armed Forces has been brought into sharp focus by events in Ukraine following Russia’s illegal invasion.

We are all proud of the way in which our country has supported Ukraine, and we need to ensure that it goes on as long as necessary. I ask the Government continually to explain to the British public the importance of our efforts and that we are defending democracy and freedom in eastern Europe, and for the rest of Europe and ourselves. Their fight is our fight. There will be other occasions to discuss this more broadly as well as the recent NATO summit in Madrid, the new strategy that emerged from it, defence spending and the future of our Armed Forces, including the mistake, as we see it, of reducing our Army by 10,000 troops, a decision which needs to be reviewed.

I have one specific question relating to the order. It is about Article 1(2), which states:

“This Order extends to England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the British overseas territories”.


I understand that, but can the Minister explain why it continues:

“(except Gibraltar) and the Channel Islands”?

We have a base in Gibraltar and our Armed Forces serve there, and I assume that there are some Armed Forces activities in and around the Channel Islands, and I wonder why they are not included.

I thank the Minister for her comments. As she said, we are rightly proud of our Armed Forces, whether they are supporting local communities, delivering aid or defending human rights, democracy and freedom in Europe and beyond. We will never take them for granted. They are respected across this Parliament and across the world, and for that we are humbled and grateful.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

From these Benches I echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, and the Minister in supporting the Armed Forces and recognising the huge debt that we as a country owe them every day of every year.

When I realised there was yet another Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order, I began to think that perhaps I was getting so old that time was running away from me, because it did not feel like a year since we last debated the continuation of the Armed Forces Act. Then I looked and realised that Her Majesty gave Royal Assent only in December 2021, so it is not quite that we have gone a year without discussing the Armed Forces.

In some ways, this legislation ought to be the most important parliamentary business that we conduct. Having our Armed Forces is vital. We often talk about the security of the realm being the most important duty of government, but at the moment we do not see very many people on the Government Benches. It may be that noble Lords are busy trying to work out whether there is indeed a Government who are going to ensure that the Armed Forces provide the security of the realm at the moment. I hope that the Secretary of State for Defence will remain in his role for a little while longer, because we clearly need to ensure that defence is a top priority.

This is a very simple piece of legislation, but it is very important. As the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, said, it matters because of discipline. The Minister mentioned that statutory instruments will be coming forward in future. I looked to see whether my noble friend Lord Thomas was here because I normally rely on him to deal with the legal aspect of forces discipline and those aspects of Armed Forces legislation.

This order gives us the opportunity not just to pay tribute to our Armed Forces but to ask Her Majesty’s Government what they are doing not just to ensure that there can be service discipline and that our Armed Forces are loyal to the Queen, but that as a country and a Parliament we are ensuring that our Armed Forces have the resources they require in terms of procurement, that the equipment they work with is adequate and does not cause health issues, that they have adequate accommodation, that their morale is ensured, and that we look again at forces numbers because having legislation that simply says “We have Armed Forces” is not sufficient. We need to ensure that our Armed Forces are fit for the 21st century and for the many tasks that are asked of them. I hope that in her reply the Minister will be able to go a little broader than the legislation in front of us today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord and apologise for failing to pick up on his question first time round. I have good news to share. The Henriques report was, frankly, excellent, and pivotal to redirecting how the MoD should conduct activity within the service justice system. I remind your Lordships that Henriques found that that system was, in its own respect, robust, professional and capable. Importantly, the Defence Serious Crime Unit has been set up, and a provost marshal has been appointed to run it. There are to be improvements to Military Police investigations, but the Military Police are now benefitting from additional training which they share with their civilian counterparts. That is a very important aspect of how we assist our Military Police in dealing with investigations. There have been other improvements in how we expect witnesses to give evidence and the protections we can afford to them when they give evidence, including victims, so that that much more replicates the safeguards we find in the civilian criminal justice system.

What might be helpful to the noble Lord is for me to go back and task my official who is preparing a little précis of the progress that has been made—progress has been constant and it has been important—and undertake to write to the noble Lord with that. I will put the letter in the Library so that that information is more broadly available.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that very helpful reply about the Henriques review and the progress being made with it. Given that she said that this order does not apply to Gibraltar, and has outlined the way in which discipline will be progressed through the Henriques review and other regulations as they come forward, does that mean that none of the regulations as they relate to discipline and apply with respect to this order will apply to Gibraltar? The Minister may not be able to answer, but she gave a very helpful answer about the Henriques review, which deals with service discipline and service justice, and outlined the progress made with respect to its implementation. But given that this order does not apply to Gibraltar—if I understood it right, the Gibraltar Government have their own rules—what does that mean for regulations such as the Henriques review with respect to Gibraltar?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

It is probably important to distinguish between discipline, which is one of the tenets of our UK Armed Forces, and operating according to a code of behaviour and under a chain of command. That is what the Armed Forces Act embraces and what the annual renewal order refreshes every year. That is entirely to do with United Kingdom forces and how they are constituted. Gibraltar and the Channel Islands are outwith that.

On the question of how we run our service justice system, I may be wrong but I think that the service justice system is distinct from Gibraltar because Gibraltar has its own administrative and legislative processes. I will inquire on that, and undertake to write in greater detail to the noble Lord.