Strategic Defence Review 2025

Debate between Lord Coaker and Lord Robertson of Port Ellen

Monday 8th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is working hard to finalise the defence investment plan by the end of the year. The discussions that we are having with the Treasury have been successful up to now and we will continue those. Importantly, as well as the point that he made about the Treasury, the noble Lord referred to the national conversation. It is crucial that, across government, whatever Government it is, we start that national conversation with the people of our country so that they recognise the threats that they face, not necessarily from traditional warfare but from “greyfare”, the threats to underwater cables, cyber attacks and all those sorts of things. We face a very real threat from that now, and the question is how we take that national conversation forward quickly and urgently.

[Lord Robertson of Port Ellen (Lab)]

My Lords, I first declare an interest as a senior counsellor with the Cohen Group. Does my noble friend agree that the importance of the strategic defence review, which needs to get through to the wider public, is that Britain is under attack, both at home and from abroad, and that the transformation of defence, which is what the strategic defence review is all about, is essential for the nation’s safety? In the light of the stunningly depressing national security review published by the Americans last Friday, even more needs to be done to warn our public about the risks that we now face, and which we might now have to face without the United States of America?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I totally agree with the comments that my noble friend has made. I read the strategic defence review again over the weekend in preparing for the Question, so I know that it is chapter 6. The important part was the challenge that it makes—not only to the public but to us as politicians and to Parliament—to reflect on how we engage. Too often, when we talk about national conversations, we talk about having a village hall meeting here or a village hall meeting there. That is not sufficient. This requires a whole-government approach, involving all government departments, the devolved Governments, local authorities, civil society, financial society and industry. All those together need to wake up to the very real threat. As my noble friend says, we are facing a threat now, not in a year’s time or five years’ time. That threat is upon us, and we need to wake up to it.

Strategic Defence Review

Debate between Lord Coaker and Lord Robertson of Port Ellen

Tuesday 3rd June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

Can I apologise? I always forget this, and if the standards people come after me, I am really sorry; I should have mentioned that my son-in-law is in the reserves. I apologise to the House for not stating again that my son-in-law is an active member of the reserves.

On the ability to produce the number of submarines the noble Baroness mentioned, she will know there has been huge investment in Barrow in order to be able to deliver. There is now dual-line production, which will mean the ability to produce more submarines at speed will be possible. That sort of adaption and need for investment shows the fact that, over a period of time, we have allowed the sovereign manufacturing capability of this country to develop the defence equipment it needs perhaps to not have the priority it deserves. One of the things my noble friend Lord Robertson’s report says is that we need to ensure we have a sovereign capability to produce the equipment and munitions we need. Submarines will be part of that.

[Lord Robertson of Port Ellen (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to make a contribution and ask a question. I have spent 10 months answering questions, so there is a slight difficulty involved in that. I ask my noble friend the Minister whether in future, to this House and the public outside, he will emphasise the fact that this was not a Labour defence review? It was designed specifically to be a strategic review that would incorporate other elements of the country. Not only did we consult as many people as we could—we got 8,000 submissions through our invitation—but I asked a former distinguished Conservative Minister for defence procurement, Sir Jeremy Quin, to be part of our team. Throughout the whole of that, he was of invaluable assistance.

This report is not simply about warships and missiles. It is about reforming the whole way in which we deliver defence. After all, defence expenditure is the premium we spend for an insurance policy, not only for the current generation but for generations to come. I hope that is something Ministers will be making clear to the outside world.

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I think my noble friend has just demonstrated why the report has been such a success. There may be things that divide people in this Chamber. There may be debates to be had, and quite genuine disagreements. I have always said, and I have always tried to reflect as a Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, that that is a real privilege. It is predicated on the basis that I do not believe that anyone in this House wishes to undermine the defence and security of our nation. We all have that at the front of our minds. My noble friend is right to point out that the public should understand that. We believe that we have the interests of our country and of our alliances—of our friends and allies—at the forefront of our minds.

My noble friend’s remark about the fact that the right honourable Sir Jeremy Quin has been involved in the review is a good example of that cross-party support. I also know that, in my time in this office, the noble Earl, Lord Minto, the noble Baronesses, Lady Goldie and Lady Smith, and many others, including the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, through his responsibility as chair of the International Relations and Defence Committee, have contributed, along with many of my noble friends who have experience. That brings together a wealth of experience and talent that can only make any report better.

On the noble Lord’s last point, an important point needs to be made. It is not only about the amount of money that we spend; we have to be clearer about what we spend it on in order to meet the threats of the future. That is an important point that the report makes as well.