Hauliers

Lord Empey Excerpts
Thursday 4th March 2021

(3 years, 2 months ago)

Grand Committee
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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP) [V]
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My Lords, in opening this debate, the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, said that easing friction is in everybody’s interests. I believe that everybody in this Committee would agree with that. However, as other speakers have said, we have exacerbated friction between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, almost to the point at which it is utterly ridiculous. A small piece of earth on the tyre of a vehicle can cause it to be prevented from entering Northern Ireland because it is contaminated with soil from Great Britain.

Groupage issues will be a nightmare for hauliers because, as everybody knows, people build up loads and try to ensure that they can be delivered in small parcels to different people. The paperwork for a pallet on a groupage lorry will be dramatic. Even the Irish Republic is suffering. It can send lorries directly to Europe without crossing Great Britain, but it costs between €600 and €800 extra per lorry. This results in hugely increased costs and empty lorries coming back. It is unacceptable.

Operation of Air Services (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Empey Excerpts
Tuesday 26th January 2021

(3 years, 3 months ago)

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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP) [V]
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My Lords, the Minister in her opening remarks referred to safety. Obviously, when airlines are not flying at normal levels and get in financial difficulty, sometimes safety is short-circuited and maintenance is put off to save money. Perhaps the Minister could tell us how safety is being maintained given these circumstances.

Secondly, I wanted to ask about the difference between what are called “foreign carriers” and “British carriers”. Airlines are owned internationally these days; they are not normally owned by a particular country, and what is a principal place of business is a matter often in the eye of the beholder. I am not quite clear how these arrangements are entered into. The other important point is that they should be reciprocal. How is that going to be rolled out over future years?

My third point, on the PSO, has already been referred to. The Minister will be aware that there are a number in the UK—in Cornwall, I believe, and I know there are others. We certainly have at least one in Northern Ireland. Given that Northern Ireland is still subject to state aid rules, how will the application of PSOs be looked at in terms of the agreement with the European Union? People could argue that unfair advantages are being given if PSOs are designated in particular areas; and of course, there is also our concern for the social and economic development of more remote regions. Perhaps the Minister could tell us how these issues will be judged. In Northern Ireland we at least have one operational PSO and are still subject to state aid; where is the interface between that and potential PSO rules in Great Britain?

Airports Slot Allocation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021

Lord Empey Excerpts
Tuesday 19th January 2021

(3 years, 3 months ago)

Grand Committee
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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP) [V]
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My Lords, I thank the Minister and her officials for arranging a briefing yesterday, which was most helpful. I agree with a lot of the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett. I also support in broad terms the relief from the 80:20 rule, because the last thing we want, for a whole variety of reasons, is to have the sight of airlines undertaking ghost flights to hold on to routes even if they have no current passengers.

A couple of years ago—in fact, on two occasions—I introduced a Private Member’s Bill, which passed the House, to give the Government powers on slot allocation in the UK. Of course, it was governed by European competence at that stage. Slots are not only big business; they have huge implications for connectivity. While this measure does not apply to Northern Ireland airports, because they have capacity, at the end of the day a flight cannot take off unless it has somewhere to land. My anxiety has for years been about the risk from the absence of connectivity between the regions and the principal airports—what are called co-ordinated airports —such as Heathrow and Gatwick. I will return to that, although it is not necessary for this SI, but the principle is clear: if you do not ensure that regions have access to major airports with connectivity, that has economic, social and other implications. I ask my noble friend to bear that in mind.

I also doubt very much that airlines could manage even 20% of the flights on a lot of their slots at present. We had a briefing from one of our colleagues—the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, the chairman of Heathrow —where he pointed out that, in a number of months last year, its passenger flow had dropped by 95%. It is quite obvious that there needs to be as much flexibility as possible. As I understand it—I hope I am right in saying this—these measures will be available to apply in the summer season this year, but further secondary legislation or an approval Motion would have to come through to deal with subsequent seasons if the need arose, and there needs to be data on which to base that judgment. I think I have got that right; perhaps the Minister can correct me if I am wrong.

I broadly support the regulations. We need maximum flexibility at the moment. We need data but, looking forward, we need to bear in mind that it is essential for the key airports to have slot allocations. My anxiety is that when this crisis is over there could be a sudden surge in those airlines—international operators, perhaps —that have resources buying up a lot of the slots from weakened UK airlines and other slot holders. This could have a negative impact on the regions, so I ask my noble friend the Minister to also bear that in mind.

Baroness Garden of Frognal Portrait The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)
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The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, has withdrawn so I call the noble Lord, Lord Naseby. We do not seem to have the noble Lord.

Freight Industry: Delays

Lord Empey Excerpts
Thursday 17th December 2020

(3 years, 4 months ago)

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Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
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Very briefly on the port infrastructure fund, 41 ports will be getting support. There were bids totalling £450 million and the pot was only £200 million, so some places were disappointed, but Ministers and officials stand by to address concerns.

The Sevington site will open as planned on 1 January to manage traffic, should there be disruption. As always, you would expect the Government to have a plan B, and that is why customs checks will take place at Ashford Waterbrook and transfer to Sevington in due course.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP)
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Will my noble friend tell the House what arrangements have been made in ports on the west coast of Scotland and England for the examination of some goods travelling to Northern Ireland? Secondly, given that the infrastructure in Northern Ireland ports for these inspections is not yet complete, what interim arrangements have been made to avoid long delays?

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
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My Lords, as I said, the port infrastructure fund provided funding to 41 ports, and they will be able to put various things in place. Work is ongoing with the devolved Administrations for ports in Wales, and conversations are ongoing with the Northern Ireland Executive to make sure goods travelling across the Irish Sea can do so successfully.

Public Transport: Face Coverings

Lord Empey Excerpts
Thursday 25th June 2020

(3 years, 10 months ago)

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Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]
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I think the noble Lord will understand that at present, all Ministers have a close ongoing relationship with transport operators and unions. We are continually having conversations about the sort of measures that may come in in the future. We spoke to the unions about face coverings; indeed, it was the unions that did not want the use of face coverings by transport workers made mandatory. We listened and worked with them to make that the case. Transport operators such as bus drivers often have to turn people away, for example, because of poor behaviour, in which case they might then go on to call the police. It is the same in the case of face coverings; if people create a fuss because they are denied boarding, transport operators will get the police involved. Of course, we speak frequently to the British Transport Police about this matter as well.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP) [V]
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My noble friend will be aware that we are negotiating with other countries over air bridges for air transport to and from the United Kingdom. Given that the rules on the wearing of face coverings differ in the various parts of the United Kingdom, how is that matter being reconciled in the negotiations to create air bridges, which I fully support?

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]
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The noble Lord raises an interesting point. It is obviously a consequence of devolution that the devolved Administrations can make their own rules in this area. However, I am pleased to say that the wearing of face coverings is mandatory in Scotland as well, so there is less confusion there, and their use is advisory in Wales and Northern Ireland. Of course, the wearing of face coverings on aircraft and the reciprocal arrangements with other countries will be an important consideration as discussions on international air bridges continue.

Air Traffic Management (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Empey Excerpts
Wednesday 17th June 2020

(3 years, 11 months ago)

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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP) [V]
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My Lords, I thank the Minister for contacting Members about the specific issues they wished to raise today. I understand the rationale for having to ensure that a body of law exists with our departure from the European Union and the replacement within national law of what is currently EU law, but Members will be well aware that an aircraft taking off from Heathrow is barely in the air before it transfers into European airspace. Therefore, the concept of having individual regimes is very difficult. On charges, what will these measures actually cost and how will these additional costs be recovered?

In the Explanatory Memorandum, at paragraph 6.3, reference is made to the devolved Administrations in the United Kingdom and the role that they might play in secondary legislation. Given that aviation is an excepted or reserved matter in the United Kingdom, what role does the Minister envisage these Administrations would play under these circumstances?

We have now got a very complicated arrangement based on different pieces of legislation, including the 2000 Act and incorporating existing EU regulations into UK law. Is her department contemplating bringing together a single piece of legislation with a clear guideline and a clear reference as to what the legal position is, rather than having all these disparate elements, some of which have been absorbed from the EU and others of which have not?

If we are proposing to do something differently—which I have no problem with in principle—can she assure the House that that will not create difficulties for our airline sector, struggling as it is under massive pressure? If there was to be a different regime, would that have implications for cost? Would it have implications for our European colleagues and, indeed, more internationally? Because, just like climate, which is a global issue, aviation is a global issue and there are no red lines in the sky. I would therefore like her to tell the House what the status of the current negotiations with the European Union is and whether she believes we will continue to have free and open access to each other’s skies as we move forward in the next few months.

Flybe

Lord Empey Excerpts
Thursday 5th March 2020

(4 years, 2 months ago)

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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP)
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My Lords—

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
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My Lords, there will be plenty of time for Back-Bench questions, and I urge noble Lords to keep them short.

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Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton
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My noble friend raises an interesting point, because there is a lot of misconception around what happened in January and what public funds were or were not made available. The conversation in January focused on a number of commitments from the Government, which included a review of air passenger duty, the review of regional services and a time-to-pay agreement, which any business can enter into with HMRC to get through a short-term cash-flow difficulty. Not a single penny of taxpayers’ money was given to Flybe. In return for looking at those things, the share- holders put in additional cash to get Flybe through its operational difficulties. It is those same shareholders who have now concluded that Flybe has no long-term future.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey
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My Lords, if the normal public service obligation process is used, it will take a long time. Will the Minister consider a short-term use of a PSO to keep some of the critical routes open while negotiations to get long-term operators continue? We have a perfect storm whereby all airlines are suffering because of the virus and because this is a very difficult time of year for them. As has been pointed out, in Belfast between 80% and 90% of the flights are Flybe. There are some critical routes, and we have no alternatives. I appeal to the Minister to bring in a special type of PSO in the short term to keep some of these key routes going while negotiations continue, because many of them will profitable. Also, would she be prepared to meet with me and my colleagues as soon as possible to discuss this?

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton
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The noble Lord raises an interesting point about PSOs. The Government are looking at all options to restore as many routes as possible. We must also be mindful that wherever we restore routes, we must do so within the law as it stands regarding PSOs.

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Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton
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Aviation services are part of the market economy and we would expect the profitable routes to be taken up by other airlines. As I have mentioned, we have had proactive input from a number of airlines looking to service those routes. I can say no more about PSOs. The Government are looking at both the profitable routes and those that may need support, and at all possible options to get them up and running.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey
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My Lords, the issue of air passenger duty has been raised. I ask the Minister to consult with her Treasury colleagues about it because, in the event of it being devolved to, say, the Northern Ireland Assembly, the difference in revenue created by the reduction in air passenger duty would automatically come out of the Northern Ireland block grant. As the new Executive are at least £600 million short, that would be a huge challenge. Will she consult with her colleagues in the Treasury, pre-Budget, to make that point? It could be a way of opening things up but it would cost the Northern Ireland Executive an awful lot of money that they do not have at their disposal at the present time.

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Portrait Baroness Vere of Norbiton
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I thank the noble Lord for his comments. I will certainly make sure that the Treasury sees them.

Southern Rail

Lord Empey Excerpts
Monday 12th December 2016

(7 years, 5 months ago)

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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
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As my noble friend knows, the Government have been taking serious regard of all the concerns that have been raised. My honourable friend the Rail Minister meets with GTR weekly. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has appointed Chris Gibb to look at the issues which arise between Network Rail and GTR, and his report will come through at the end of this year—at the end of this month. As I said, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has now written directly to both RMT and ASLEF, asking them to meet with Southern at ACAS, where we hope this issue can be resolved. I agree with my noble friend and with all noble Lords; many in this House and beyond have rightly raised this issue because they are exasperated. That is probably a reflection of the sentiment the Government feel. We are taking major steps to resolve this issue, and I implore all parties, particularly those involved with the dispute, to come forward so that we can tackle the dispute and then the long-standing issues which impact negatively on this line and on many people in the south-east of England.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP)
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My Lords, will the Minister consider whether the operators of this service are still fit persons to operate it at all, and will that be taken into account when the franchise comes up for renewal?

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
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The noble Lord raises the specific issue of the contract. I assure him that when we have directly raised issues about the failures of this line, as noble Lords will be aware, GTR has raised the issue of force majeure. We have now gone further and are looking at each case of force majeure, which impacts on 10,000 separate train lines, and which it raised between April and June of this year, to see whether they stack up. The DfT is currently looking at that report to ensure that, every time that is claimed on that contract, it is looked at extensively and we can respond accordingly. Until we have completed that exercise, we cannot hold GTR in breach, because we have to establish whether the basis for it claiming force majeure is valid.

Airport Capacity

Lord Empey Excerpts
Tuesday 25th October 2016

(7 years, 6 months ago)

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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
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On the second practical point, the Government are clear that we have now taken a decision that is focused on the additional runway at Heathrow. The consultation will be focused specifically on ensuring that the challenges, and that runway, can be delivered. On his other point, I thank the noble Lord for his support. Of course I will convey his sentiments to my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey (UUP)
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My Lords, the Minister said in his Statement that he is strengthening connectivity for passengers right across the UK. It does not matter how many runways are built. The question is: are there slots for the regions to get access to them? The Minister will know that my Airports (Amendment) Bill, which I introduced some time ago, was designed to guarantee slots. He said that he could not guarantee them because of European Union legislation—but now that we are leaving the European Union, will he, with the vigour, robustness and determination that only he can deliver, take my Bill, which was well ahead of its time, strongly support it, and implement the legislation to guarantee the slots for regions?

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
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I have always regarded the noble Lord as a forward-looking Peer in your Lordships’ House, and he and I have spoken extensively about the importance of regional connectivity. Today’s decision delivers that very regional connectivity. Indeed, Northern Ireland will benefit from the extra availability of slots and connectivity; it will be one of the six regions to benefit directly from this decision. On the issue of PSOs, which he has previously raised, he knows that there are decisions that we have taken—most recently to protect particular routes connecting to London to ensure the continued growth and prosperity of different regions, including Northern Ireland.

Airports (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Empey Excerpts
Friday 9th November 2012

(11 years, 6 months ago)

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Moved by
Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey
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That the Bill be read a second time.

Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey
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My Lords, as noble Lords will recall, I raised this issue last March, in the previous Session, and we then discussed the issues surrounding regional access to hub airports. Since then, we have had the introduction of the Civil Aviation Bill, and there were further discussions when that Bill was before the House. Indeed, this week, the noble Lord, Lord Stephen, proposed an amendment to that Bill which sought to do something similar to what I am trying to do with my Bill.

The purpose is basically to ensure that the Government have power to intervene if necessary in the event that there was a failure to connect the regions of the United Kingdom to our principal hub airport at Heathrow. I do not believe in over-involvement of government in regulation or intervention if it is at all possible to steer away from it, but the reality is that there is an economic imperative for regions to have connectivity to the centre. It is a basic principle of regionalism which has operated in this country for many decades. It is a principle that is widely recognised in the European Union—we often talk of a Europe of the regions—and European regional development policy and UK regional development policy have all directed funds specifically to regions. That is to ensure meaningful economic activity in those areas.

People may say, “At present, most regions of the United Kingdom are fairly well connected”. That may or may not be true. For people in the south-west or other areas—we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Stephen, this week, that some air services from the north-east of Scotland had been cut back—it is constantly in our minds. The airline sector is one of the most volatile sectors before us today. Changes are taking place almost as we speak. In my region of Northern Ireland, we currently have good connections not only to Heathrow but the wider world. Generally speaking, we are currently content.

However, the connections are only as good as the airlines that provide them. It is perfectly obvious that there can be substantial swings from profits to loss, and then there can be takeovers. One of the providers of air services to Heathrow from Belfast is Aer Lingus. A few months ago, Etihad Airways bought 3% of it. It is now trying to buy the Irish Government’s 25% stake in that airline, and Mr O’Leary, of Ryanair fame, is trying to buy the airline as well. Does that send the message that there is a meaningful commitment to maintaining regional links to the hub airport at Heathrow, or do the airlines see greater profit in having access to the landing slots at Heathrow, which are where the money is? Frequently, the money is not in regional air traffic. The amount of regional air traffic, the number of passengers involved, is diminishing in the United Kingdom—largely because there is a move to rail. Rail is becoming ever more competitive and, in some areas, even Birmingham, the railways have effectively eliminated the airlines from the race.

Of course, in Northern Ireland, those options are not open to us. You cannot drive or take a train; the only meaningful connection is air. My principal objective is to protect our access to Heathrow.

The Government have frequently pointed out to me that this is not a matter for the UK alone; I fully understand that. They have pointed out that there is a significant European dimension; and I fully understand that. By coincidence, the European Union currently has a substantial document before the European Parliament. It is a regulation by the European Parliament and the Council on common rules for the allocation of slots at European Union airports and related matters. It is pure coincidence that this Bill and the activity in Europe are taking place at the same time.

However, that provides an opportunity. I have been to Brussels on a number of occasions this year and through a colleague in the European Parliament—Jim Nicholson MEP, formerly of the other place—a number of amendments were put down in the European Parliament’s transport committee. Those amendments were voted on earlier this week and the committee accepted a number of them. Those amendments will now go before the European Parliament next month. Perhaps I may give your Lordships an example of what those amendments included. One states:

“In addition it is important that access to hub airports from regional airports should be maintained where such routes are essential to the economy of that region”.

That is precisely the point that I want to make with this Bill. As the European Parliament’s transport committee has accepted the point, a legislative report will, in response, go before the European Parliament in December. If that report is accepted it will form the co-decision position of the European Parliament—as both the Commission and the Parliament will have to agree. It will then go to negotiation at the Council of Ministers. However, if the European Parliament as a whole accepts this amendment then the core point that I have been trying to make will be adopted.

On Tuesday a second amendment was also accepted which referred to the co-ordinator of airports, who we may be familiar with. This amendment added:

“This procedure shall be without prejudice to regional airports connectivity to hub airports. If such connectivity is undermined Member States shall be permitted to intervene”.

It is precisely because the UK Government have no power to intervene, as they would be in contradiction of European Union regulations, that we have been pursuing this matter in the European Parliament.

A second report—an own opinion report—came before the European Parliament earlier this year. The difference between a legislative report and an own opinion report is that the latter is a bit like a take-note debate in Parliament—it has no legislative edge to it, whereas the legislative report that will be going to the Parliament next month does. Nevertheless, it gives some flavour of the opinion that is there. The report was prepared by Philip Bradbourn MEP, who represents the Birmingham area. It was drawn up in April this year and, I believe, was passed by the European Parliament in May. The report,

“considers it essential for regional airports to have access to hubs”.

Again, that is exactly the point that I have been trying to make.

The Minister has correctly pointed out to me on a number of occasions that the only way to overcome the conflict between European law and what I am trying to do in this Bill is to bring the two sets of legislation together. By coincidence, the European Parliament and the European Commission are doing precisely that at the moment. I have been there a number of times and talked to members of the committee and to the cabinet of the relevant commissioner. They all understand the regional issues because many of them represent remote regions of the European Union and know what it is like to be isolated.

I also understand that there is a risk of conflict because if you intervene in the marketplace you can distort competition. At the end of the day, however, there are certain essential facts. One fact is that the state cannot be isolated or left powerless when an emergency arises. I hope that that will never happen but it is of fundamental importance for the state to ensure that its regions have adequate connectivity to the hub. It is a relatively simple point. I understand, of course, that the Minister cannot say that he supports this proposal, because the law has not changed. The question, however, is whether the Government will be prepared to support and argue for appropriate changes in Brussels when the proposals come to negotiation at the Council of Ministers, and whether they will accept that they currently do not have the powers but would like changes to take place. I would be interested to know if the Minister is able to say that to us.

The Irish Government will be holding the presidency of the European Council from January of next year and I expect that that is the point at which the negotiations will take place. I have made it my business to be in touch with them. I have spoken to a number of their MEPs and, I have to say, I have met with universal acceptance of the ideas that we are putting forward. They know what it is like to be in a remote region as they have remote regions in their own state. All that I am asking the Government to do at this stage is to indicate that they would support proposals for change in Brussels, provided that these would not lead to over-upsetting the normal commercial processes. It cannot be that you cannot upset them. Quite rightly, states and Governments throughout Europe reserve powers to interfere in the normal marketplace.

Regional policy is itself a distortion of the market. If you say that each region can be left to swing by its own tail and we will not intervene, businesses and industries might move from one region to another—and they do. But this country has maintained a regional policy since the Second World War. It has put a lot of resources into this policy, as has the European Union. I hope that Her Majesty’s Government will at least indicate that, in the forthcoming negotiations in Brussels, they will undertake to encourage the European Union to make the changes that would allow them to have powers to intervene should the necessity arise. I beg to move.

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Lord Empey Portrait Lord Empey
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I am grateful to the noble Earl and to other noble Lords who contributed to the debate. His final remark is of no surprise to me, but of course my principal point is that I am trying to remove those obstacles. I welcome the fact that he said that he would look carefully at the activities in the European Parliament. I cannot expect him to do more at this stage.

The noble Earl pointed out the wishes and interests of consumers. Consumers are important. I have here a document from the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland, which urges support for my colleague Mr Nicholson's amendments in the European Parliament. Indeed, it circulated a list supporting those amendments, which were subsequently accepted. The Consumer Council has been a stalwart in support of our proposals throughout this entire process. Indeed, the Minister in Northern Ireland, the regional development committee in Stormont, the CBI, IOD and other organisations have all given their support.

As the Minister said, it is not because there is any immediate threat. I do not detect an immediate threat. But that is not always the point of legislation. The point is to anticipate something that may or may not happen. Because of the coincidence with the activities in the European Parliament, the logical time to make changes seemed to be now, when the issues are running in parallel. If we let this opportunity pass and in a year or two something happens in the airline sector that we have not anticipated—and in view of the volatile nature of that sector who can tell what is around the corner—we would be left completely flat-footed in this country, with no power to intervene.

The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, made a point about the PSO obligation existing in law. That is correct. It is Regulation 95/93, which allows a Government to consider an application for a PSO. If there is inadequate connectivity or connections between regions, a PSO could be funded. That is not the point. The Bradbourn report calls for Regulation 95/93 to be amended because, under that regulation, an airport cannot be specified, only a region.

Despite what the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, said, the reality is that there is one major hub airport in the United Kingdom, whether we like it or not. Other airports are aspiring to be hubs and to improve their international connections, and that is entirely understandable, but in reality, looking at it from a business point of view, trying to sell the advantages of a region around the world, business people are simply not going to go round in circles when they get to a country. As things stand in this country, Heathrow is the only significant hub airport, but it is full. As the noble Lord, Lord Davies, said, the whole driver of the current argument about air capacity in the south-east is that Heathrow is full. Many of our European partners do not suffer from that problem. They have an easy solution; they can add a slot or two, use up some spare capacity and overcome the regional disconnect in that way. We are not so lucky in this country. So, while things may change in the future, it is currently a one-horse town as far as connectivity is concerned.

I hope that this will progress. I thank my noble friend Lord Lexden for his unswerving and stalwart support, particularly of Northern Ireland’s interests in this House. I very much appreciate it, but this is not a regional, Northern Ireland Bill, it is a national Bill aimed at all regions. I ask the Minister, we talked about flights to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen; what would happen if they became international flights attracting grossly inflated APD levies? I wonder whether some of those advocating independence have thought that through. International flights, of course, attract a huge increase in duty; those who are advocating independence need to think very carefully about what they are suggesting, because that is the implication on air services if one travels on an international flight. A lot of these questions have not been thought through by those who seek independence.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, tried in vain to winkle out of the Minister some response on the broader aviation issues. I am sure he will keep trying; whether he succeeds or not is entirely another matter. Stonewall Jackson would have been proud of the noble Earl’s performance today. I thank noble Lords for remaining at this late stage on a Friday. I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.