Bus Services (No. 2) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Holmes of Richmond and Lord Snape

Consideration of Commons amendments and / or reasons
Monday 13th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly on these amendments; first, about safety. I bring the House’s attention to the fact that, although we had a debate in Committee on the question of safety with regard to blind and disabled people, particularly at bus stops, to speak from memory, my noble friend the Minister said that he would take away the concerns expressed in that debate and come back later. There is a particular problem—and it was debated fully in Committee—about what have been called floating bus stops, so I do not intend to go into it at any great length now. If safety is to mean anything, it must apply to those who wish to use buses as well as those actually on the vehicles.

Since that debate, my attention has been drawn to British Standard 8300-1 of 2018, headed “Design of an accessible and inclusive built environment”, and to paragraph 6.2.2 on bus stops. It was drawn up in January 2018, and the paragraph on bus stops reads:

“Bus stops should conveniently serve key facilities and services by being located within a reasonable walking distance. They should be adjacent to, but not obstructing, pedestrian routes; and pedestrians should have access to and from the bus stop without crossing cycle routes, including where these run between the pedestrian route and the vehicle carriageway”.


I draw my noble friend’s attention to the fact that concern was expressed from all quarters of the House about the design of floating bus stops and the problems that such a design causes for the blind in particular. The BS that I have just quoted was drawn to my attention only today by the National Federation of the Blind UK. I apologise for raising it at the last minute, but it is a relevant point with regard to this amendment, and I hope that my noble friend will be able to satisfy my concerns as well as those of other noble Lords on this problem.

The other point that I wish to make is about the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, although he has not said very much so far. Listening to him earlier, I felt nostalgia sweeping over me at the fact that this legislation and other legislation in the transport field was drafted at the behest of the trade union movement. He did not actually name which trade union he had in mind. A feeling of nostalgia came about because I remembered the days of “reds under the bed” that the Conservative Party was obsessed with at one time—and that has obviously returned. I wonder whether the noble Lord will tell us not only the names of the unions that have such enormous power that they draft legislation these days but those left-wing local authorities to which he referred.

As for the noble Lord’s amendment, it was originally drafted by my noble friend Lord Woodley, who unfortunately could not be present in Committee to move it, so it was never actually discussed. The fascinating thing is that, having attacked these wicked trade unions, the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, should pick up an amendment that was tabled by the former general secretary of the Transport and General Workers’ Union. It is a pleasure to see the noble Lord advocating trade union matters, although he will forgive me for thinking that it is a somewhat cynical approach on his part.

Indeed, I looked at the amendments that the noble Lord moved throughout the passage of this Bill, and most of them demanded inquiries, committees and reports to Ministers. I calculated that at least 40 or 50 new employees would be needed to draft responses to all the requests that he made. The Conservative Party would be the first to complain about the addition of bureaucrats, as it would call them, and the unnecessary recruitment of such people. But one can only describe the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, as a one-man employment bureau with regard to bureaucracy. Few of his amendments have had any relevance for bus passengers or the bus industry—and I look forward to him rising shortly to advocate the policy of a former general secretary of the Transport and General Workers’ Union.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Snape. I endorse everything that he said about British Standard 8300. We had a long and extensive debate around floating bus stops and the difficulties for accessibility and inclusion as well as for safety, as the noble Lord rightly points out, for all prospective bus users, not least the blind and sight impaired. Does the Minister believe that current floating bus stops comply with BS 8300, and does the Minister believe that they should? Does he believe that local authorities should comply with BS 8300? What does the Minister see as the role for the British Standard, which clearly sets out a key phrase—although there is much in it—about being able to access the bus without having to cross a live cycle lane.

It is the lived experience for blind, sight-impaired and indeed all prospective bus passengers, with an increasing number of these floating bus stops being tragically laid out and commissioned up and down the country, to have to cross a live cycle lane or, worse still, to stop going out, to be effectively planned out of their local communities, a public realm that was previously accessible before the laying out of these so-called floating bus stops. So, I ask the Minister, when he comes to sum up, what is his view on BS 8300? Does he believe the Government should be very supportive of the work that British Standards do and should it not be that all local authorities and, indeed, all those in planning any public realm, when it comes to bus stops should be fully compliant with this very well thought through, very clear, very comprehensive BS 8300.

Highway Code (Rule 149)

Debate between Lord Holmes of Richmond and Lord Snape

Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

The Bicycling Peer, as he now is. He was right to remark that there are a minority of cyclists who, to say the least, do not do the cycling fraternity much credit. But he also talked about how there must be some way of prosecuting them for using a mobile telephone. I refer him to the tragic case mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, in which the prosecution for “furious riding”—or whatever the phrase was—was dredged from the Victorian era and referred to hansom cabs. The fact is that there are no specific offences so far as the furious or dangerous riding of bicycles is concerned. I believe, and I think the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, would agree, that there should be. Those specific offences should also cover the use of mobile telephones.

I will close with an anecdote about the minority of cyclists who misbehave. If you stand at the corner of Parliament Square and Bridge Street, as I did waiting to cross the road only last week, you can see that, despite the facilities provided for cyclists, there are some—again, a minority, I emphasise—for whom the sight of a red light is a challenge and the sight of a pedestrian is an obstruction around which it is all-too-easy to weave. I did try to remonstrate with one such cyclist as recently as a week ago. I shudder to repeat what he said, but I have not been called such a name since I left the British Army more than 50 years ago.

So I have to say that legislation in this area is long overdue and I hope the Minister will give a sympathetic response to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, this evening.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to support my noble friend Lady McIntosh and commend the way she introduced her regret Motion. There are over 1 million privately owned e-scooters. Does my noble friend the Minister really believe that all of these e-scooters are being ridden on private land? Is it not time that the Government got serious about e-scooters and what is actually happening out there? Similarly, even in the trial areas, does the Minister really believe that e-scooters replace journeys that would otherwise have been taken by car? It is a completely different way of getting around.

Since the pandemic, the number of e-scooters and cyclists has dramatically increased, shooting through crossings and red lights. Does my noble friend the Minister not think that it would be a good idea to increase the level of vigilance and pulling people over? I know my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham is a bicycling aficionado. Perhaps he could be used in an advertising campaign to promote proper, responsible cycling on our roads.

In conclusion, can I ask my noble friend why this opportunity with the Highway Code has not been taken to address the issues around e-scooters raised by my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering? It sems an ideal opportunity and, having not addressed it in this current draft, I assume we will be looking at future action that will have to be taken. To build on what the noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate, said, e-scooters are not a catastrophe waiting to happen; it is happening right now.