Pubs Code and the Adjudicator

Debate between Lord Jackson of Peterborough and Adrian Bailey

Thursday 14th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Bailey]

It is very helpful to have that on the record. I am sure that the Minister will understand, as I do, that often in politics perception can become reality, and if these rumours are going round, obviously that has considerable significance and could underlie or even reinforce the level of suspicion that exists about the proposed impartiality—

[Mr Jackson]

In an effort to be helpful and for the avoidance of doubt, let me point out that the Minister said on 10 March that Mr Newby had

“already started work. He has been very helpful to my officials in making sure that we have the pub code up and running, and ready to come before this House.”—[Official Report, 10 March 2016; Vol. 607, c. 425.]

Therefore, with all due respect to the Minister, there was some room for ambiguity and I am pleased that she has clarified that matter now.

[Mr Bailey]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which demonstrates the source of the ambiguity. That is certainly something that needed to be clarified, because if there is any suspicion that the arbitrator is involved in the drafting of the code, that calls into question the future impartiality of its interpretation. His intervention also demonstrates how easy it is, in this rather long-standing antagonistic set of relationships, to set things going that could perhaps be remedied with a slightly different approach.

What is undeniable is the lack of trust from the tenants’ side on the appointment of Mr Newby. I do not like to prejudge that appointment. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) mentioned having some kind of pre-appointment hearing for the adjudicator. That had crossed my mind as being something that, if the Minister is to go ahead and make this appointment, might go some way to satisfying everybody. I am in a slightly difficult position, because I am not on the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee—as its former Chair, I do not feel that it is my job to start recommending what it should be doing now—but it would certainly fall within the Minister’s remit to perhaps gently suggest that it would be helpful for the Department to have such a hearing. I know that often there are informal channels of communication between Departments and Select Committees, and their roles can be reinforced if those channels are used properly. I gently suggest that the Minister could look, if not at a BIS Committee pre-appointment hearing, then at some form of parliamentary scrutiny that would enable an adequate response to the questions that are circulating.

In conclusion, I reinforce this point. The legislation has been a long time coming and people have devoted so much work to it. A successful outcome is so important. Given its long gestation, we do not want the legislation to be damaged at birth. I stress the need for the Minister to listen to the comments that have been made today. She should take them on board and provide mechanisms and responses that will not only enable the wider participants—the tenants, the community pubs and the beer-drinking community—to be satisfied, but Parliament, too. Every opportunity should be given for scrutiny to deliver that satisfaction. The importance of the industry to the individuals within it, the communities they represent and the economy as a whole is so great, and we want to get the legislation right. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I ask the Minister to listen to everyone to ensure that we get it right.