Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lord Laming Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 12th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sentamu (CB)]

My Lords, I too support this amendment. It asks the Secretary of State to prepare an action plan and to show how it is being implemented or otherwise, so it is not asking that which is beyond common sense.

I take your Lordships back to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, chaired by Archbishop Desmond Tutu. In front of him is a police officer who was responsible for setting alight a young man. The young man dies and the mother comes, and all that is left is just ash—the body is gone. Desmond Tutu asks, not the person who committed the crime but the mother: “What do you want to say to him?” The mother says, “I lost my son. In the light of what you have been saying to us about the need to address the maladies that have happened and to reconcile people, I say this. I have a broken heart; I lost my son. I want to take this police officer to the place where my son was burnt alive. When we have gone there and have actually touched the earth, I will adopt him as my son, because I no longer have a son.” Desmond Tutu broke down in tears. They go to the place where this had happened, and the mother takes in that police officer as her own son. That is the effect of restorative justice. It never asks the question: “Who has done this? What punishment do they deserve?” It asks the question: “Now that this rather unhappy fact has happened, what are we going to do about it?”

For nearly 20 years I have been lecturing all over the world on restorative justice. In this country, at an international conference gathered by the Bar Council, we had a great debate and discussion; but unfortunately, although we talk about restorative justice, in the light of our criminal justice system we really do not give a major role to what Desmond Tutu’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission did. Had it not been for restorative justice, a lot of people would have been revenging for what had happened. They were very angry and wanted to lock people away and throw away the key, but because of that mission and Desmond Tutu believing that, without forgiveness, there can be no peace—and that forgiveness is a consequence of restoration; it does not come out of nowhere—South Africa, where many people committed terrible, awful crimes, continued to live in peace.

I know that we will not be voting on this amendment, but somewhere, we must find words that express what the noble Baroness has put before us, because if there is no restoration of the relationships that have been fractured by a crime, you just think that that is it. After a big victory in a battle, George Washington started befriending the people fighting on the other side. Those on his side said to him, “Why do you want them to be your friends?” He said, “Well, if they don’t become my friends, they will still be protesting. The only way to overcome an enemy is to make them your friend; then, they stop protesting.”

There are so many people in our country for whom crimes have caused untold difficulty—take the Stephen Lawrence murder. It would have been good if some kind of restorative justice had happened. Neville Lawrence says, “Those five young men did a terrible thing to my son, but I have now realised that if I continue to be angry, it is me who is being destroyed.” Unfortunately, he is not being given the opportunity to go through the restorative justice process. I support the amendment.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, perhaps I may make three quick points in support of this important amendment. First, we all accept that short sentences are extremely expensive to manage and expensive to our society, and we ought to do our best to provide alternatives to them. They are also expensive in other ways because they introduce often naive offenders to much more serious crime. Secondly, short sentences are extremely disruptive to the individual concerned. They often lose whatever jobs they have and a whole range of things that are important in their life. Thirdly, restorative justice is a learning experience. Would that there were other parts of the criminal justice system that I could say with confidence were a learning experience.

Restorative justice is the opportunity for an offender to reflect carefully on what has happened as a result of their behaviour and on why it is important that they learn from that experience and change their way of life. This is an important amendment that I hope the Government will take seriously.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the House that at one stage in my police career I was the lead for the Metropolitan Police on restorative justice, working with Professor Larry Sherman. The evidence from that experience and other academic studies shows that the benefits to victims, in terms of allaying fear and victim satisfaction, and to perpetrators, in terms of engagement with the criminal justice process, and by being confronted, as the noble Lord, Lord Laming, has just said, by their offending behaviour, and in terms of reducing recidivism, are unequivocal.

The only objection to the amendment would be political, because restorative justice is wrongly perceived by those who do not understand the process as going soft on offenders; it is the opposite. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Laming, about short sentences. However, on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, it does not necessarily have to be an alternative to prison in very serious cases. The important outcomes are victim satisfaction and the offender having to confront their offending behaviour.

The Minister may argue that people get a long time in prison in which to reflect on their wrongdoing. However, a colleague of mine did some research on street robbery and went to a young offenders’ institution to interview those who had been convicted and incarcerated for that offence. Many of those he spoke to did not understand why they were in the young offenders’ institution. The process was so detached from them—they just sat at the back of the court while other people spoke and dealt with the case, without their involvement at all. They genuinely did not understand why they were in prison. That is why restorative justice is important.

The question is: are the Government going to be led by the evidence and support this amendment, or are they going to object to it, based on misconceptions?

Covid-19: Impact on the Prison System

Lord Laming Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the mental health point is critical. We continue to work with our partners in the NHS on mental health and have put in place a number of additional provisions to this effect. On videocalls with families, we have given increased PIN credit to ensure that prisoners can call their families more often, and we have also provided packs which prisoners can use in cells. There is no doubt that mental health is a problem, but one must bear in mind when considering this that many people in the prison population came into prison with mental health issues.

[Lord Laming (CB) [V]]

My Lords, following on from the noble Lord, Lord German, is the Minister aware that there is an increasing number of offenders being discharged from prison on a Friday afternoon with little money and nowhere to live? Does he accept that this is a perfect recipe for further crime and, sadly, more victims of crime? What action is being taken to put in place robust, effective, proper discharge arrangements for these offenders?

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, the position on money is that prisoners are released with a discharge grant. There can also be an extra payment to an accommodation provider, together with an appropriate travel warrant. However, accommodation is key. We are launching a new accommodation service which provides up to 12 weeks of basic temporary accommodation for prison leavers who would otherwise be homeless. We are trialling that in five of the 12 national probation regions in England and Wales. We believe it will mean that 3,000 prison leavers will be kept off the streets. Keeping people off the streets and giving them money until they can access social benefits is critical.

Probation

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 12th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulks]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord. What this transformation is achieving for the first time is the ability for offenders who have received sentences of imprisonment of less than 12 months to receive through-the-gate support for a period of 12 months and assistance before their release from prison, as opposed to being released with a mere £46 in their pocket and no support. This should be celebrated on all sides of the House and provide genuine rehabilitation, reduce reoffending and enable offenders to take their full part in society.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, because the Minister used the word “transformation”—which it really is to the probation service as it entails enormous change—it is in the interests of us all that the service is effective and does its job well. Will the noble Lord assure the House that the Government will continue to monitor carefully how these changes are implemented so that we know that they are working at the grass roots?

[Lord Faulks]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord about the importance of maintaining proper oversight in the way in which this transformation is effected. The Government are committed to doing that, and whatever the shape of the Government after May, I am sure that that commitment will be maintained.

Lords Spiritual (Women) Bill

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 12th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, it is a very great pleasure to contribute to this Second Reading debate on this important and very welcome Bill. Like others, I take this opportunity to offer the Bill my support unreservedly. That being so, my observations will be brief and confined to four simple points.

First, the Bill seems to have been a very long time in coming to us, given that women have been ordained in the priesthood, I think, since 1994, and what a remarkable contribution they make. It might have been expected that a Bill along these lines would have come to the House rather earlier, but that comment does not have even a hint of criticism in it. On the contrary, many of us have just a little understanding of the variety and seriousness of the issues that have had to be settled. The time taken to get this Bill before us makes it all the more welcome. I take the opportunity to offer the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury, his fellow bishops and the General Synod my warmest and heartfelt congratulations on their achievements. Together they deserve our grateful thanks.

My second point, although I admit it is not directly related to the Bill but I am comforted that the most reverend Primate referred to it, is that while many of us understand the point about gracious restraint in the consecration of female bishops, it is to be hoped that sooner, rather than later, that will no longer be necessary so the church can continue its search for equality of opportunity.

Mention of graciousness brings me to my third point which is simply to record that graciousness is so well demonstrated in the generosity of the Bishop of Lincoln, the right reverend Christopher Lowson, in overcoming any frustration and disappointment he may have felt for the diocese of Lincoln. He has been mindful of the greater good of the church, Parliament and us all in ensuring that we do not have to wait even beyond the next Parliament before we have the benefit of women Bishops in this House. This House provides daily a clear demonstration of the enormous contributions made by hugely capable women, except sadly on the Bishops’ Benches, and we look forward to that being rectified as soon as possible.

Finally, this Bill achieved the support of the other place in almost record time—perhaps completely in record time so far as I can recall. We may not match that, but I hope nothing will be done to create any delay. Rather, let us wholeheartedly welcome the Bill and, to coin a phrase, wish it godspeed.

Offenders: Rehabilitation

Lord Laming Excerpts

Thursday 27th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulks]

The noble Lord makes a number of allegations about the unsatisfactory nature of our prisons. There are different reports for different prisons. I cannot possibly deal with all prisons at the Dispatch Box. I do not share his gloomy view of the state of our prisons, having visited a number of them. The work done in our prisons is of a very high standard and we have a dedicated body of prison officers who take great satisfaction in their work. I do not accept his description.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister agree that the size of the prison population has reached an almost all-time record and that that is a cause for concern, particularly given the difficulties there are now for courts in finding alternatives to prison for relatively minor offenders and those who have serious problems, such as drug or alcohol abuse? Would it not be worth while thinking again about the status of the probation service in this country?

[Lord Faulks]

The number of offenders who are in prison depends, of course, on what judges decide is appropriate and on the number of offences committed. I accept that the prison population is high at the moment; I do not accept that there is overcrowding within conventional definitions. However, I entirely accept what the noble Lord—who has great experience in this field—says: we should be looking, in so far as possible, for alternatives to prison, particularly to combat difficulties with drugs, alcohol or other matters that predispose people towards offending.

Prisons: Child Suicides

Lord Laming Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

Would the Minister agree that, no matter how serious the offences committed, or alleged to have been committed, by these young people, they are also often vulnerable young people who are confused and capable of serious self-destruction? Can the Minister expand on his earlier Answer to say what steps are taken to ensure that the assessment of risk is as strong as possible? Is he satisfied that prevention plays a key part in dealing with these young people?

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, first, we are talking about six deaths over 10 years; that is six too many, I readily acknowledge. We also now have an all-time low of young people in custody, for which both Administrations and those working in the youth justice system should take credit; there are fewer than 1,400 in custody, including only a handful of girls. However, the noble Lord is absolutely right that we are dealing with young people who, as well as often having a great capacity for violence against other people and self-harm, are extremely vulnerable and quite often exhibit mentally unstable behaviour. We are bringing in both initial and ongoing assessments to try to make sure that we can identify those who are at risk of either self-harm or, ultimately, of killing themselves. Looking at the briefing on this, an awful lot of hard work and deep study is going on, with the realisation of exactly the problem that the noble Lord highlights: these are vulnerable young people, who are difficult to manage and need a great deal of care and attention.

Crime: Victims

Lord Laming Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Laming]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of responses to their consultation, Getting it right for victims and witnesses, what assessment they have made of the contribution of the central office of Victim Support to supporting victims of crime.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord McNally)]

My Lords, we are still consulting on this matter and hope to report the outcome of the consultation as soon as possible.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. However, although many of us support the general thrust of the consultation document, especially the point that local services should be shaped to meet the needs of the communities they serve, does the Minister agree that these local services would be more efficient and more effective if they were supported by a strong organisation at the centre that could provide them with advice, help and support? In particular, will Victim Support continue to maintain its services for witnesses and the relatives of victims of homicide?

[Lord McNally]

Part of the purpose of the consultation is to work out where it is best to keep responsibilities centrally—the noble Lord referred to one such responsibility in the case of homicide—and where they could be devolved locally. I assure him that the Government fully appreciate that Victim Support provides a valuable service. We would be surprised if it did not continue to have an important role, as we have proposed moving to a mixed model of national and local commissioning.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Lord Laming Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords—

[Lord McNally]

No, I am not giving way. I am not giving way.

[Noble Lords]

Sit down. You have finished.

[Lord Laming]

The House will realise that I rarely intervene in matters of this kind. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this is the first time that I have intervened. I hope that the noble Lord the Minister, for whom I have the highest regard, will withdraw any suggestion that if members of the Cross-Bench group go through the Lobby supporting these amendments, they are behaving irresponsibly.

[Lord McNally]

Cross-Benchers are individuals who make up their own minds. I am entirely right to say that decisions that we have taken in the context of this Bill relate to public expenditure and the need to bring this economy under control. I will also say this, because we have had enough examples in Europe in the past year: if you lose control of your economy you go into another round of public expenditure cuts. Part of the reason why we have been able to have this debate today is the success of the Government in stabilising the economy.

What we have never heard—and I hope that the Cross-Benchers will also put this into their minds when they make their decision—is that members of the party opposite were committed to making a similar round of public expenditure cuts. That is their right in opposition, but they did not have to spell out where or how or when. That is very comfortable in opposition, but I am proud that we in the Government have taken those decisions. I hope that those who are willing to accept that we have taken tough decisions will give us their support in the Lobby tonight.

Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims (Amendment) Bill

Lord Laming Excerpts

Friday 27th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Laming]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims (Amendment) Bill may be a slight document, but I hope the House will agree that it is one of the utmost importance in holding to account those who cause or allow a child or vulnerable adult to suffer awful deliberate harm.

Many Members of this House contributed most ably during the passage of the 2004 Act of the same title. Therefore, the House will recall that Section 5 of that Act introduced changes in the safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults that have proved to be enormously effective. That Act of 2004 provides that members of a household who have frequent contact with a child or vulnerable adult will be guilty if they cause the death of that child or vulnerable adult if three conditions are met. The conditions are: first, they were aware, or ought to have been aware, that the victim was at significant risk of serious physical harm from a member of the household; secondly, they failed to take reasonable steps to prevent that person coming to harm; and, thirdly, the person subsequently died from the unlawful act of a member of the household in circumstances that the defendant foresaw, or ought to have foreseen. In my lay terms, this meant that adults in the household could no longer avoid prosecution either by blaming each other or by remaining silent.

It is encouraging that there is now a body of evidence that demonstrates both the wisdom and utility of that legislation. Indeed, its success was so well illustrated by the outcome of the prosecution of the defendants in the dreadful case known as Baby P. The case of Baby P rightly caused widespread distress across the nation. Without the 2004 Act, those responsible would not have been held to account for the awful suffering and terrible death of that defenceless child. Indeed, they were successfully found guilty of causing or allowing the death of Baby Peter and they were given the maximum sentence. During the passage through Parliament of the 2004 Act, careful consideration was given to whether the offence should include serious physical harm. At the time it was well understood that there was much to be said for doing this, not least because there was already clear evidence that some children had managed to survive despite being victims of deliberate harm. Sadly, some of these children have remained damaged for life. Indeed, in some cases it was a matter of chance that the authorities had been able to intervene just in time to save the life of the victim. Understandably, saving the life of the child was rightly the urgent priority but, sad to say, it often meant that the adults of the household could not be prosecuted unless they co-operated with the authorities.

After a great deal of thought, the then Minister in the other place said that,

“examples are compelling, which is why I do not rule out extending the offence at some time in the future. It is important, first, to put in place the new offence. Let us get that right first and see how the provision operates. If appropriate, we may return to the problem at a later date”.—[Official Report, Commons, 27/10/04; col. 1473.]

We are now at that stage. Moreover, we now have the benefit of a body of evidence that indicates even more clearly that there is a real need for this legislation to include serious physical harm. Because of that, I am glad to say that there is widespread support for this Bill across government and throughout the front-line services. It comes to us having successfully completed its passage through the Commons.

I will spare the House details of individual cases as they are so awful, but I hope that it will help the House if I refer briefly to information from the Crown Prosecution Service. This is based on a survey undertaken by the chief prosecutors in six police areas: Sussex, Northumbria, Merseyside, Norfolk, Hertfordshire and Thames Valley, so it was a good cross-section of the country. The prosecutors were asked to identify the number of cases in 2010 in which they had been unable to prosecute for grievous bodily harm or cruelty to a child or vulnerable adult because there was insufficient evidence as to which of the members of the household was responsible for the injury. Those prosecutors identified a total of 20 cases involving children and three involving vulnerable adults that could not be prosecuted under existing legislation, and which they believed could be prosecuted under the changes proposed in the Bill. The areas surveyed account for 15 per cent of the Crown Prosecution Service’s business. If extrapolated, those figures produce national figures of no less than 133 children and 20 vulnerable adults. I am therefore sure that noble Lords will agree that this indicates as clearly as possible that there is now an urgent need for this Bill.

It is against that background that I hope the House will agree that this brief introduction will suffice. I know from my time in this House that we all attach immense importance to the protection of children and vulnerable adults. Our aim is to protect them from serious neglect and deliberate harm. This Bill affords the opportunity to hold to account members of a household who cause or allow such awful suffering to these vulnerable people. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his helpful and encouraging comments. I also thank government Ministers in other departments for warmly supporting the Bill and for their generosity in allowing us to have the benefit of the help of their officials.

We have been treated today to one of the great merits of your Lordships’ House—outstanding and well-informed contributions from all sides of the House in favour of our principal concern of safeguarding children and vulnerable adults. Such is the distinction of the contributions and the Members who made them that it would be presumptuous of me to even comment on the wisdom of what they have said.

As the House knows, the Bill was ably steered through the other place by Sir Paul Beresford. That being so, I felt distinctly apprehensive this morning about taking on that responsibility in your Lordships’ House. I am therefore particularly grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken so helpfully and constructively. It is clear that my anxiety was misplaced.

There are, of course, still hurdles to be overcome and some way to go before the Bill reaches the statute book. At this stage, I thank all noble Lords most warmly for the contributions that they have made and the support they have given. I invite the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Social Mobility Strategy

Lord Laming Excerpts

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will acknowledge that a number of Sure Start centres are being closed. That being so, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that the centres that remain are made available to the children of families in the greatest need?

[Lord McNally]

That is certainly the Government’s intention. The initiative on Sure Start is still at local authority level but the intention is that it should remain a targeted benefit for those in greatest need, as the noble Lord said.