Data Protection Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Lucas and Lord Griffiths of Burry Port

Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, I entirely support my noble friend’s amendment. We have got ourselves into a complete mess in this country on insurance, and motor insurance is a pretty good example. Premiums in this country are about double what they should be. They are the highest in Europe, above even Italy, because of a level of fraud that we encourage by our legislation and by the lack of action from successive Governments to do anything about it. We can see the size of the problem that this clause will generate, if unamended, by what has happened in motor insurance. It leaves an open door to an enormous number of claims management companies, of which 500 or so were seriously active the last time I looked. It is a really big, profitable industry, and it will push into a hole like this with no difficulty at all.

We took a bit of action a while ago on whiplash injuries. Fine, whiplash injuries are down, but rocketing upwards now is, “Oh, I had this crash and now I get a buzzing in my ears”. It is wonderful—a disease which has suddenly appeared from nowhere because the claims management companies need an opportunity to push in here. We must realise what is happening. I hope we will get around to dealing with the general problem at some stage, but to open another door to these people is just foolish.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his eloquent disquisition, which made me much more aware of the issues than I was before. I have no problem in aligning myself with the two points of view that have just been expressed. I had come to the conclusion partly myself, but to be told that the wording is not in the equivalent article in the European GDPR just adds to my simple conclusion that the words “other adverse effects” add precisely nothing but open a potential cave of dark possibilities. The rain of the noble Lord’s eloquence has found a crack in my roof, and I am very happy to align myself with his remarks.

Education Bill

Debate between Lord Lucas and Lord Griffiths of Burry Port

Monday 12th September 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

Before the Minister sits down, may I probe a little further? He says that, in so far as 14 areas are currently exposed to the new method that has been applied since April 2010, most parents will not notice any difference. Of course they will not; there are only 14 areas where the trial is being implemented. The more important point is what results are coming out of that trial. From what the noble Lord, Lord Low, was telling us, there are quite important, positive and affirmative messages about the success of this new system that should, if the logic were applied, be made available to the whole country instead of just 14 areas. Certainly, proper time for evaluation is necessary before taking a draconian measure of this kind, which subverts something that has been argued for and put in place and is being accepted as a reasonable way forward—especially by a Government who tell us time and again that they want smaller government and for fewer things to happen from Whitehall rather than more.

I have one further thing to say. The Minister introduced one word in his summing up that has not been mentioned at all in the debate apart from in his speech. We have all talked about the arguments and argued the case, reason has been invoked and we have appealed to experience and the history of this problem as it moves forward, but I want the Minister to give me an assurance regarding the word that he introduced: finance. Is it for financial reasons that we are moving from one system to another? Is that the driving force that would stop something so logical, appropriate and appreciated from taking place?

[Lord Lucas]

My Lords, I was waiting to see if my noble friend wanted to take advantage of a chance to reply. He has not yet convinced me with his arguments. We have had an experiment running, and if we are to terminate it we ought at least to be allowed to see the results so far. It really ought to be up to the Government to provide them to us, and I very much hope that between now and Report we will have the chance to see a narrative, if not an evaluation, of what has been achieved so far.

These are long-standing problems, particularly when it comes to bullying, SEN and children getting into home education when they do not really want to be there. I am conscious that this has happened over a long period and in quite a high volume without any indication that the current methods, which we are to go back to, have provided an adequate answer. What was proposed by the previous Government and is now being trialled is a transfer from one set of officials who are not specialised and have limited powers to another set of officials who are specialised and have better powers. That seems to be worth trying. That is not to say that this is something that should not be done by Government; rather, it is to say that if we do it in a slightly different way, it could be done better.

I am conscious of the suffering that is caused by the current system and its inadequacies, and I do not want to go back to it. I do not mind going back to it if the system being trialled turns out to be no better and more expensive, but we ought to know what the evaluation is.