Bus Services (No. 2) Bill [HL]

Lord Moynihan Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments and / or reasons
Monday 13th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Snape. I endorse everything that he said about British Standard 8300. We had a long and extensive debate around floating bus stops and the difficulties for accessibility and inclusion as well as for safety, as the noble Lord rightly points out, for all prospective bus users, not least the blind and sight impaired. Does the Minister believe that current floating bus stops comply with BS 8300, and does the Minister believe that they should? Does he believe that local authorities should comply with BS 8300? What does the Minister see as the role for the British Standard, which clearly sets out a key phrase—although there is much in it—about being able to access the bus without having to cross a live cycle lane.

It is the lived experience for blind, sight-impaired and indeed all prospective bus passengers, with an increasing number of these floating bus stops being tragically laid out and commissioned up and down the country, to have to cross a live cycle lane or, worse still, to stop going out, to be effectively planned out of their local communities, a public realm that was previously accessible before the laying out of these so-called floating bus stops. So, I ask the Minister, when he comes to sum up, what is his view on BS 8300? Does he believe the Government should be very supportive of the work that British Standards do and should it not be that all local authorities and, indeed, all those in planning any public realm, when it comes to bus stops should be fully compliant with this very well thought through, very clear, very comprehensive BS 8300.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Motion 31A and declare my interest as chair of Amey, which works with councils to identify and capture data on road defects. My motion this evening, however, is on a completely separate issue. If I may respond to the noble Lord, Lord Snape, as much as I could see that all the praise he was lauding on my noble friend Lord Moylan with regard to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, was wholly appreciated on the Front Bench here, it was me who raised the subject when we were last engaged on it and I would say that, as the noble Lord, Lord Snape, knows, when it comes to safety in any aspect of life, praise where praise is due and collaboration where collaboration is needed, across party lines. I had no hesitation whatever in praising the unions for their response to the Piper Alpha disaster when I was Minister for Energy, and that has been a characteristic throughout all my political work.

Tonight, however, I am focusing on the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, because I thank him and indeed the unions who supported him for first introducing this amendment. I think it is an important amendment, and I have to say that it beggars belief that Labour Party MPs in another place should be voting down the considered and well-argued wishes of the unions on this subject. The noble Lord, Lord Snape, asked me to name the union. I understand that the RMT did a lot of good work in drafting the original amendment.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

The fact is that the amendment was never actually debated in Committee because the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, could not be present. The fact is that it has now been adopted by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, who I suspect—I hope I can say this without upsetting him too much—is doing it more for political purposes than concern about women and children. The fact is that when men, women or children are assaulted on public transport, those assaults are recorded by the police, so there is no need for that particular amendment, which was never moved in the first place.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

I have to say to the noble Lord, Lord Snape, that this was never mentioned by my noble friend Lord Moylan. He did not even respond to it, if memory serves me correctly, when we did debate it, and, as he knows, it is perfectly proper and in order for anybody to move an amendment in Committee and people do so. I was intending to speak on it in any event, but, in his absence, the opportunity arose for me to move it because, sadly, the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, was not here for what I think was an extremely important issue.

We heard earlier this evening about the number of people who are on buses, as opposed to trains, and the safety of people on buses, particularly the vulnerable—not just the women and girls. I appreciate what the Minister said about the initiative that he is taking for women and girls, but it is also about the vulnerable, the disabled and the children. Many people face abuse and even violence in incidents late at night, in particular on buses, which I think should be a matter of concern to the Committee, which is why I raised it in the first place and why I believe that the unions were right to demand stronger sanctions. Late-night shifts expose drivers and staff to higher risks of violence, abuse and anti-social behaviour. Existing protections were seen by the unions, by the Cross-Benchers and indeed by the Liberal Democrats and the Conservative Party as being inadequate. They all called—and I hope the noble Lord, Lord Snape, would as well—for increased action against the night-time risk; against underreporting and poor follow-up; against the lack of a legal mandate. There is a need for accountability and, above all, for protection for vulnerable passengers.

The Minister in another place argued that the clause duplicates work done by the Home Office, and again the Minister this evening highlighted that point. However, I do not think that that bears comparison with what happens in the world of rail. The Railway Accident Investigation Branch, the RAIB, which does very good work, was introduced in order to recognise and to fill the void that existed in terms of what normally happens with police reporting. We needed to go further on the rail, and I believe we need to go further, as I am sure the unions did in helping with this amendment, when it comes to buses. According to the Unite survey last year, 93% of UK bus drivers experienced abuse, with 79% saying that there had been an increase over the previous year and many reporting an inadequate employer response to assaults. I think it is time for action and I think that this modest amendment can go at least one step in the right direction.

The Liberal Democrats were very supportive in another place as well. I will quote Steff Aquarone, who said:

“Here lies the point: at present, too many of those incidents go unrecorded, or are not handled consistently across different operators and regions. Clause 40 would put a stop to that, creating a clear and consistent duty that, if an operator is contracted to run services, it must record this data and share it with the local authority. That is the very least the public expect. Furthermore, the inclusion of a duty on a local transport authority to consult with relevant trade unions regarding issues of staff safety arising from the data collected is a good step. It will ensure that the data is used in practice and could lead to increased safety for staff and passengers”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/7/25; col. 231.]

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Moynihan]

Leave out “agree” and insert “disagree”.