Situation in Russia and Ukraine Recovery Conference

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Statement and for including the previous Statement on the recovery conference. As my right honourable friend David Lammy said this afternoon in the other place, we should reiterate to Ukraine that all sides in Parliament are in for the long haul and that the UK will always support it in its fight for democracy over tyranny.

I commend the Foreign Secretary for hosting the Ukraine Recovery Conference in London last week, as a vital part of that process of the fight for democracy. In the Common’s debate on the recovery conference Statement, my honourable friend Stephen Doughty referred to the extra funding for British International Investment, and noted that neither the BII nor its predecessor, the CDC, has had any recent experience of working in Ukraine. Can the Minister tell us exactly what the BII’s role will be in Ukraine and when it will be expected to begin operations? What additional support and guidance will it be given in this vital work?

Since at least last October, the Government have indicated that they are in principle supportive of seizing Russian state assets to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction. However, in the months since, no specific proposals have been forthcoming. Tomorrow, Labour will be strongly urging the Government to use the Summer Recess to draft legislation to repurpose sanctioned Russian state assets for Ukraine’s reconstruction. Across the world, Governments are coming forward with legal proposals to use Russian state assets for this reconstruction. Last week, EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said the proceeds from the over €200 billion belonging to the central bank of Russia frozen in the EU will be used to pay for Ukraine’s reconstruction, with a proposal arriving before the summer break. We have seen similar action in the US, with a bipartisan group of senators launching a Bill to seize and transfer Russian assets to Ukraine. I know that the Minister will not give a clear commitment, but I hope he can say that the statements made before will be followed up with action and that we will be following our allies in this regard.

The conference Statement also referred to the support of businesses that have contributed monetarily to Ukraine’s recovery and reconstructions. These donations are significant, but it is equally important that these businesses continue to operate and support the economy of Ukraine now. What steps are the Government taking with our allies to encourage global businesses to invest in Ukraine now? I hope the noble Lord can respond on that.

Turning to the events over the weekend and the Statement, we know that Prigozhin has been a long-time and close ally of Putin. His military company, the Wagner Group, started becoming involved in eastern Ukraine in 2014, and this weekend’s developments will have ramifications beyond Ukraine in conflicts around the world where its militia army has been active. Is the FCDO actively monitoring whether there has been any significant change in the activity or location of Wagner militias? As the Minister knows, Labour has long called for its proscription as a terrorist organisation. Again, I know that he will not wish to make any determination tonight, but I hope that the department is very actively engaged in looking at this—again working with our allies.

The Opposition agree that it is not helpful to speculate about where all this will end up in the long term. Events are constantly shifting in size and shape. As Secretary Blinken has said, last February Russian forces were approaching Kyiv thinking that they would be able to capture the capital in just a few days; one year and four months on, Russia has had to defend Moscow from internal rebellion. As the Foreign Secretary said, what happens in Russia is a matter for Russia, but one thing remains completely certain: the security of our continent depends on Ukraine winning the war. I hope that, following discussions with Foreign Ministers, he is confident that Ukraine will get the military, economic, diplomatic and humanitarian support it needs in the coming months. I hope the noble Lord the Minister will also be able to reassure us that we will be reaching out beyond our current allies to ensure that all nations join us in the fight for this democracy and ensure that those who have maintained a neutral stance will see that recent events should change their mind. We must maintain the depth of support for Ukraine from the UK and its allies so that the Ukrainian people get the freedom and justice they deserve.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, from these Benches I also thank the Minister and the Foreign Secretary for the Statement he gave in the House of Commons. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, the people of Ukraine will know that there is unanimity across all corners of the Chambers in our Parliament in our continuing support for their steadfastness. I also associate myself with the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked regarding the reconstruction and recovery conference.

Notwithstanding the reports that the West’s intelligence services may have known for a number of weeks that a move from the Wagner Group was imminent, or indeed that Russian intelligence services either knew about it and did not tell Putin or did not know about it themselves—we shall no doubt learn—the weekend’s events were extraordinary to observe. As the Minister rightly said, they are at the very least a very significant counternarrative to the Putin regime’s suggested reasons as to why the illegal invasion of Ukraine took place.

Secretary Blinken said yesterday that US officials spoke to their Russian counterparts at the weekend concerning the safety of US nationals. I am glad that the Statement referred to the fact that COBRA had been convened, but will the Minister inform us whether there has been direct communication with Russian officials by British officials to stress the need for the safety of British nationals within Russia? On a number of occasions the Minister has called for awareness by all British nationals within Russia for their own safety and security, but when there is chaos and internal division on the scale that we saw at the weekend this must heighten concern for all those British nationals who are living in Russia.

A strong Putin has clearly been a menace to UK interests; a weakened one is a real danger. Whatever the motive of the terrorist Prigozhin’s actions, Putin’s sovereignty as leader of his country is now doubted and his position is unquestionably weakened. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has highlighted, the jarring juxtaposition of his calculation that Ukraine would fall within 48 hours and his now having to operate defences for his own capital draws a stark contrast between the resilience of the Ukrainian people and the weakness of Putin’s regime.

Given Putin’s positioning on Belarus and the use of President Lukashenko as what an opposition leader has called a postman between him and Prigozhin, and the belligerent language on the position of nuclear weapons, it is even more important to ensure that dialogue restarts on the nuclear states and the posture that they all have.

Can the Minister reassure me that the UK will continue to seek dialogue from all nuclear powers? If a state with such a nuclear arsenal as Russia can be shaken by an internal mutiny of this scale, it must concern the entire world. I agree that there is little to be gained in speculation on what comes next, but as Ed Lucas said on Radio 4 yesterday in a very powerful interview, we must accelerate discussions on what may be a post-Putin scenario, because, as some observers have said, the situation would not necessarily be better. As obvious cracks exist in his leadership, and how deep and far they will go we do not yet know, one thing for certain is that things will not be the same. Prigozhin and Putin consider themselves masters of the dark arts, but they have both miscalculated, which could be a danger not only to Europe but to the wider international community.

I shall repeat what I have done every month since last February—to call for the proscription of the Wagner Group—but in the context of what seems to be now a clear approach to absorb Wagner into the Russian military, this is inevitably going to be much harder. What is the Government’s assessment of the Wagner Group, whether it is now formally part of the Russian state and how it will operate in Africa? The Russian Foreign Minister said today, in perhaps classic threatening terms, that it will continue its role in Africa as “instructors”. Can the Minister give an update with regards to our assessment from working with other partners in Africa on the likely implications of the impact of the Wagner Group?

Finally, I commend the Minister for his work, and that of Foreign Office officials working with our partners, in continuing discussions on the full-scale recovery and reconstruction of Ukraine, which will be necessary for the long term. Can he reassure the House that oversight, accountability and scrutiny in respect of some of the eye-watering sums that will be required for reconstruction are necessary, and that the Ukrainian Parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, representing its people, will be at the centre of ensuring that this reconstruction will be delivered in an accountable, transparent and efficient manner? If anything is clear, it is the unity of the Ukrainian people, led now by an increasingly transparent and efficient Government. That cannot be put at risk, because it is the clearest contrast with the instability and lack of consistency in the Russian forces. I hope that that is a lesson that we can learn from the conference, to ensure that the reconstruction is done in a clear and accountable way.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, once again, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, for their strong support of the Government’s position. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, this is not something we share just from the Dispatch Box. My right honourable friend and I myself when I have represented the UK Government in our meetings—specifically on reconstruction in the Council of Europe as well as in associate meetings with the European Union—have made it clear in any public demonstration of support for Ukraine that it is across the board, across both Houses and all parties, and we stand as one. That message has been very clearly and warmly received by our Ukrainian allies and partners.

In thanking noble Lords, I shall pick up on some of the key issues and areas that have been raised by them. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised the important issue of transparency and ensuring that parliamentarians in Ukraine are also involved. It is right to have that kind of scrutiny that any Parliament should give to the Executive. In the case of President Zelensky, that was in his mandate. It seems a long time ago now, in 2019, when he took on the mandate as president, and that was one of his key priorities. I am sure that, as the war effort continues and as Ukraine sustains and strengthens its position, and ultimately as we look towards reconstruction, that will be a very valid role for the Ukrainian Parliament.

On the Ukrainian recovery conference, I thank both noble Lords for their strong support of the Government’s efforts. There were more than 1,000 attendees—a mixture of private sector, where the aim was, but also countries at government and Foreign Minister level, and others. There was a broad level of attendance. Both noble Lords often ask me about the importance of civil society, and that was also present. Overall, there was a large sum. Although it was not a pledging conference, once you tot up all the commitments, there was about £60 billion in terms of support. There is the immediate shortfall, which was required. I pay tribute to our colleagues, including those in the European Union. Commissioner von der Leyen made it clear how that gap would be plugged—but that was just for the next 12 months. That shows the immediate need and, of course, the importance of ensuring that we are in it for the medium and long term. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that that is exactly the message that we are delivering to our Ukrainian friends.

On asset seizures, again, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and I have talked about this very clearly and consistently. Of course, we are monitoring and working with our partners to ensure that those responsible, which is the Russian Government against the people of Ukraine, are held accountable. It is estimated that currently, because of the various seizures that we have had, circa £18 billion is held just under UK territorial control. We are looking at key options, since it is an important but complex area, to see how those assets can also be utilised—and, of course, we are working with our key partners. There has been new legislation enabling sanctions on Russia to be maintained until Moscow pays compensation to Ukraine. We are looking at the development of a route to allow sanctioned individuals to donate frozen funds to Ukrainian reconstruction and, under the Russia financial sanctions regime, new requirements for sanctioned individuals and entities to disclose assets that they hold in the UK, as well as new requirements for those holding assets in the UK on behalf of the Russian Central Bank, the Russian Ministry of Finance or, indeed, the Russian National Wealth Fund, to disclose them to the Treasury. These are all steps being taken forward to ensure a full assessment of the money that we hold so that that money can also be utilised towards the recovery.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked a specific question about BII and its predecessor. First, I assure him that the level of investment in BII’s core markets, which include Africa, south Asia, south-east Asia and the Caribbean, will not be affected by the Ukrainian mandate. That is important to recognise. However, the BII is working with key partners to ensure that its expertise in investing can also focus on Ukraine as well. BII has recently also signed an MoU with the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development to create the EBRD-G7 DFI-EDFI Ukraine investment platform, which will act as a basis for how we work through the BII.

On the issue of full support for the fight for democracy, noble Lords alluded to the widening of the alliance and ensuring that all the countries beyond the partners are involved. It is encouraging that, well beyond a year into the conflict, we have seen votes at the UN consistent with key countries across north Africa and, indeed, the Middle East, changing their position in support of Ukraine. We very much welcomed from the Middle East the first visit to Kyiv of Foreign Minister Prince Faisal, who also pledged one of the largest donations by any country in humanitarian relief. We will continue, as I did recently through my visit to the UAE, to strengthen and broaden the alliance, ensuring that we are in it for the long term, not just from the United Kingdom, US and European perspective but across the piece.

Undoubtedly, there are challenges being felt. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, also raised the issue of Africa, which is an important partner. We are talking to them as to how the events over the weekend impacted their operations. We are of course monitoring very closely, and all agencies are on this. Of course, there is a limit to what I can share, but it is notable that, when African leaders were in Kyiv, even then Russia threw a missile at Kyiv. What was that supposed to achieve? The African leaders, including the president of South Africa, saw for themselves what was happening.

Finally, in the closing seconds of responding to Front-Bench contributions, I can say that I spoke to my noble friend Lady Goldie today, and we will look to arrange an appropriate briefing for key Peers from your Lordships’ House. We regard highly the valuable insights that noble Lords bring to this debate.

Sudan

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is active on all the fronts I have already described but, in addition, we are heavily invested in Sudan. Over the last five years we have invested about a quarter of a billion pounds’ worth of aid, and in May this year the Minister for Development and Africa announced a further £21.7 million for Sudan, which is part of a broader £143 million package of humanitarian aid for east Africa. We are heavily invested in the region and will continue to be so.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I am actively involved in supporting the co-ordination of the civilian voice of the Sudanese and will be returning to the region the week after next to carry out some of this work. The Minister painted the very bleak picture of the humanitarian need of the people of Sudan. Does he agree that civilians—especially the young people and women, who were so remarkably resilient against the previous dictatorship and now have been resilient in this war—are an enormous resource for the co-ordination of humanitarian assistance? Can he outline the work of His Majesty’s Government in supporting the AU’s intergovernmental authority development in the Horn of Africa to ensure that civilians are at the forefront of the co-ordination of this work?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to work with international partners to bring about a permanent cessation of hostilities and that includes through a new African Union-led core group to ensure inclusive regional and international action to secure a viable peace process. It is our view, as it is the noble Lord’s, that a transition to civilian rule is the best and probably only way to deliver peace and prosperity.

China: High-level Talks

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, when Xi Jinping visited this Parliament in 2015, the Conservative Prime Minister hailed the UK as the “best partner” in the West for China. Four Conservative Prime Ministers later, it has been quite hard to find out what that consistent position is, and, as the House of Lords International Relations and Defence Committee has identified, we now have a strategic void with regard to our position on China. Is it still the case, as David Cameron called for in 2015, that

“we should increase our financial and economic co-operation, with the UK as the partner of choice for China in the West”?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I refer back to the suggestion that was put to me earlier, that our policy should be one of building resilience. That means in our supply chains and in terms of inward investment into the UK. It never makes sense for the UK to be overly dependent on any one country, especially if it is as large, powerful and increasingly assertive as China is.

Colombia: National Liberation Army

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is. We continue to work closely with the Government and with communities to bolster protection for human rights defenders who, as the noble Baroness will know, have faced particular problems and casualties in recent years in Colombia, more so than in many other countries. Through this work, but also through our international climate finance, we are ramping up support for indigenous communities both in Colombia and the wider region, having secured a pledge from other donors of nearly $1.5 billion for the same. Securing land rights, for example, is a major part of what we are trying to do with indigenous people, as well as bolstering support for human rights defenders and supporting the transition of justice mechanisms that are being trialled and rolled out across Colombia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, to go back to the noble Baroness’s question, in November, with an Inter-Parliamentary Union delegation, I met for the first time indigenous community representatives in the Colombian Senate in Parliament, and her point is well made. Can the Minister reassure me that transitional justice support is a key element of the work that the UK is doing and co-ordinating and facilitating with Norway and Mexico. Those indigenous community MPs were optimistic but the next stage for transitional justice is going to be critical for community buy-in, especially on land rights issues. The Bar Human Rights Committee supported this work. Are we continuing to support it?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The answer is yes. The UK has contributed over £26 million towards transitional justice mechanisms and for victims of the conflict in Colombia since 2016. That included supporting the Truth Commission’s work to gather testimony from Colombians, both in Colombia and abroad, as well as enhancing the investigatory capacity of the Special Jurisdiction for Peace, Colombia’s post-conflict special court. This issue was raised by the UK’s global ambassador for human rights, Rita French, who met the Special Jurisdiction for Peace recently to discuss our ongoing support.

Ugandan School Attack

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, this was an horrific and cowardly attack on a secondary school in Mpondwe. I echo the noble Lord in saying that my heart and the thoughts of all members of the Government go out to the families involved.

As a brief update, the Government of Uganda have confirmed that 42 people were killed and that 37 of them were students at the school. Six people were injured and there were reports of a further five to seven people, which we think includes children from the school, being abducted. The authorities in Uganda believe that the perpetrators are from the Islamic State-affiliated armed group the Allied Democratic Forces, which operates in the DRC. The Ugandan military is pursuing the attackers and those responsible of course must be brought to justice.

The noble Lord asked two specific questions. The first related to the joint analysis that was raised by our colleague in the other place, the Minister for Africa. The Government have commissioned analysis for the Horn of Africa. We are not yet in a position to set out timelines. However, we are in regular contact with partners in the region to identify the drivers of conflict and how to react to them. On illicit finance, it is worth pointing out that the ADF is already under UK and UN sanctions. In addition, we are working with a number of African Governments to address loopholes in existing legislation that enable this type of money to be laundered in support of groups such as the ADF.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, from these Benches I associate myself with the condolences offered by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, to the families of those affected by this truly horrific terror incident. Because the attacks were on young people, this trauma will live with them for the rest of their lives.

The United States State Department two days ago issued a statement on the final report by the UN group of experts on the DRC, which covered many of the aspects the Minister has referred to. The State Department condemned Rwanda for its support of the M23 group, which has committed multiple violations of international humanitarian law and human rights abuses, including rapes and summary executions of civilians. Specifically with regard to the Allied Democratic Forces, also known as ISIS-DRC—which, as the Minister says, the Ugandan authorities believe are responsible for this horrific attack—the State Department said that the US designated that as a terrorist organisation in 2021

“and urges our partners to do the same”.

I can see no reference to the UK proscribing ISIS-DRC, the Allied Democratic Forces, as a terrorist organisation. Is this the case? If it is, why have we not?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK does not speculate and therefore I cannot speculate on future sanctions and designations or on organisations that may or may not be proscribed.

The noble Lord is right to raise broader issues around the DRC. Of course, as discussed before in this House, we are very concerned by continuing violence and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the eastern DRC. We are monitoring the situation closely. We very strongly condemn the continuing advance of the UN-sanctioned M23 illegal armed group across that province. The resumption of violence has caused huge human suffering. We believe there are now 1.5 million people displaced as a direct consequence of the M23 crisis. We are supporting a range of diplomatic efforts, including the Nairobi and Rwanda processes, which aim to bring this conflict to an end.

UK Food Aid: Ethiopia

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 14th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we understand why the World Food Programme has taken the decision to temporarily halt food assistance to Ethiopia. It is worth adding that nutritional support and other programmes will continue. The demands placed by USAID and the World Food Programme are reasonable: they want independent investigations that target the people behind the aid diversion schemes, independent rather than government-managed targeting of humanitarian food assistance and independent—again, not government-managed—warehousing and distribution of food assistance. That is what they are demanding, and we understand why. As it happens, we have not yet found any diversion of UK aid, and we hope that does not change with the emergence of new evidence.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that this region is suffering from the worst famine and hunger crisis for 30 years, but the UK support has been slashed from £861 million in 2017-18 to just £221 million last year. Notwithstanding that, we are still contributing a large amount of support for the people of this region. It is recognised that if combatants attack food supplies, it is considered a war crime. Is it the position of His Majesty’s Government that direct and deliberate food diversion away from civilians as part of a conflict will also be considered by the UK as a potential war crime?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I will have to put that specific question to the Minister for Africa. In principle we do not question the basis for the definition that the noble Lord has put forward, but it has always been our view across the board that determination of things such as genocide or war crimes should be made by a competent court rather than by the UK Government or a non-judicial body.

Nova Kakhovka Dam

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Further to the noble and gallant Lord’s question, it is very welcome that London is hosting the second Ukraine Recovery Conference jointly with Ukraine, but if that is to be successful for the state’s future, proper scrutiny, oversight and accountability of any private sector reconstruction work for Ukraine will be necessary. The Ukrainian Parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, is not included in the agenda for the recovery forum. Does the Minister agree with me that Parliaments and their scrutiny are very important for effective, sustainable recovery after any conflict? Will he ensure that there is always an eye on proper parliamentary involvement in these fora?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my understanding is that parliamentarians are also attending that conference. As the noble Lord will be aware, it is primarily aimed at the private sector and focused on reconstruction, but I note what he said.

Kosovo and the Western Balkans Region

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one thing is very clear in Kosovo and, as my noble friend said, in Bosnia-Herzegovina. When you visit on the ground, as I did last year in Sarajevo, you can feel and see the growing assertiveness of Russian influence in these key areas, which is very much in evidence. While we call for Russia to respect the sovereignty of these key nations, it is evident that those leading some of the Serb causes, such as Mr Dodik in the so-called Republika Srpska, are becoming ever more assertive. That is why the United Kingdom took steps to sanction such individuals.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the replenishment of KFOR is regrettably necessary, and I welcome the fact that the UK has announced that it is going to replenish the 80 personnel there. I commend the Minister on his commitment to peacekeeping forces, as demonstrated just before Recess at the event where he, I and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, met peacekeepers of the UK contributions. Just two years ago, the contribution from the UK was over 400 personnel but, according to the UN Association, the UK is now 50th in the world for our contribution to global peacekeeping forces. Will he please tell his colleagues in the MoD that now is the time to increase the number of UK personnel able to be deployed for peacekeeping forces around the world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we take considered decisions on the deployment of UK forces for international missions in terms of our support for both NATO and the United Nations. I am proud of the fact that we have consistently been strong supporters of troop-contributing countries in the UN system—we are one of the largest contributors. We have troops who serve through various UN mandates as well. We look at the particular mandate to see what is required. The other thing to note is the strong technical and training support that the MoD and UK troops provide to many nations across the world, which is very much valued.

Overseas Territories: Illegal Immigration

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 27th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Of course, Haiti is not an overseas territory, but it has a big impact on neighbouring overseas territories, as we have been discussing. We are obviously very concerned. We used our platform in the UN Security Council to support the UN sanctions back in October. We continue to engage in Security Council discussions, including considering Haitian requests for security assistance, and we want stability and security as soon as possible in Haiti. We are supporting it through contributions to the UN and other international agencies that have a strong presence on the ground, including the World Bank, and we are working with the UN office in Haiti and the international community to support a peaceful, democratic and Haitian-led solution for the Haitian people.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that the OTs operate their own visa regime, which is separate from that of the United Kingdom. Given the violence and climate crises in that near neighbourhood, there are no safe and legal routes for seeking asylum. Are the OTs fully covered by the proposals in the Government’s Illegal Migration Bill, which means that they will now have to detain and then remove to Rwanda any of those individuals? What are the mechanisms for providing support for detention facilities within the OTs and supporting the cost of flights to Rwanda that the Government are now going to insist the OTs carry out? What was their response? I assume the Government and FCDO consulted them. What was the response to the consultation?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Different OTs have different challenges and problems. We began the conversation about TCI, where the migration problem is on a scale that is incomparable. If it was translated into UK conditions, it would be like 4 million or 5 million people crossing the channel every year, and clearly that is a major problem for a small island with a small population. What we are helping to do in TCI is helping the country return those refugees to Haiti where possible. Similarly, we have a problem in Cayman, where large numbers of people are fleeing from Cuba. The answer there is to return people wherever possible to Cuba. The only issue that seems to be of interest to Parliament at the moment relates to the British Indian Ocean Territory, where we have a particular problem with refugees, mostly from Sri Lanka, who are inhabiting an area that is effectively uninhabitable. There we have particular issues and it is in those circumstances where the Rwanda option may be the best one.

Sudan

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by paying tribute to the bravery and professionalism of our Armed Forces, who have been involved in the operation, first, to evacuate our British diplomats and, now, to start to evacuate British citizens from Sudan. In supporting our nationals in escaping the violence, we should remember that this conflict is not of the Sudanese people’s making. The responsibility for it lies squarely with a few generals, who are putting personal interests and ambition above the lives of fellow citizens. In those circumstances, it is important that the international community, including our partners, sends a clear and united message that the generals cannot secure any future through the continuation of violence. They need to understand the importance of stopping—and stopping now.

I have a number of questions for the Minister. I appreciate that, tomorrow, there will be an update report presented to the other place, and I hope that next week we will have an opportunity to review that. In the meantime, I ask what support is being offered to the African Union mediators—has the AU made any specific requests to us? How are UN efforts towards a ceasefire being collated and joined up so as to facilitate progress on the African Union IGAD plan for mediation? It is vital that we focus on that.

There are issues around the numbers evacuated, the numbers remaining and the timescales for the remainder of evacuation flights. In particular, is there a time when the Government expect that control over Wadi Seidna airbase will end? Certainly, working with other partners is their responsibility. Will the responsibility be transferred to other nations that seek to evacuate their own citizens? If the ceasefire deteriorates, how will we prevent people being left behind who are so desperate to escape?

After reading the reports on the ground and listening to the radio, it would be good to hear from the Minister what we are able to do to support the British nationals who remain there at the moment. Are there any reports of British nationals being attacked on their way to the airport following the escape routes recommended to the FCDO? What is the most up-to-date number of those registered with the FCDO as British nationals and dependents? We heard in the Statement originally that the minimum number was 2,000 but, from my informal discussions with the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, it looks as if the number could be more than 4,000. At the rate so far of eight flights with 75 people per flight —so 600 people per day—it would take two more full days to get 2,000 out. If the number is 4,000, it means a much more extended period.

Does the department recognise that any errors have been made in its communication over the last few days? We have seen reports of people hearing the message with no concrete plan for further evacuations on Monday and then making their own plans for the dangerous and very lengthy journeys to Port Sudan or the Egyptian border. It seems now that, with the clear plan for flights, that might be resolved, but it would be good to hear the Minister’s assessment.

There have been reports in the media of sexual violence. What steps are we taking to support survivors and, in particular, to support evidence gathering by specialists to make sure that the accountability that is so necessary is maintained? We are also having to think about the humanitarian response and what will be possible. Water, food and all the basic essentials for the people of Sudan are being affected—and they were badly affected before. This will add huge pressure. I hope that we are thinking about how, working with our partners, we can address this.

I conclude with a couple of points about external players’ involvement in the conflict. As I mentioned in a previous debate on this, we have had reports of the Wagner brigade being involved in facilitating RSF activities, which have been increasing. When I raised this matter before, I asked what we were doing to step up investigations into corrupt and illegal activity around arms smuggling and, particularly, illicit finance resulting from gold mining, which may well have fuelled the conflict and helped with the supply of arms. Are the Government actively considering any potential use of sanctions, perhaps on mid-level figures linked to atrocities or illegal activity in the run-up to the conflict? The UK’s role as a penholder makes our engagement in working with others on this question very important. I appreciate that there will be updates tomorrow, and I hope we can have further discussions when we return next week.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I reiterate my entry in the register of interests and declare my interest, in having visited Sudan on a number of occasions, most recently during the Easter Recess and in March, when I met Generals Burhan and Hemedti separately. I thank officials and the UK special envoy to Sudan and South Sudan for being open to engaging with me and responding in a personal way. I also commend the officials and staff, as well as our military and Armed Forces, who have worked very hard to ensure the safety of British nationals, as well as of our diplomatic staff, who are now re-establishing diplomatic channels from outside Sudan.

What is the Government’s estimate of the capacity of the current means by which we are evacuating British nationals? Are we both sharing other countries’ resources and co-ordinating that? There has been a number of differing figures from partnering countries as to how many nationals have been evacuated for seeking refuge. How are we co-ordinating that number? Having been to Sudan on a number of occasions, and having asked our embassy during previous visits how many nationals and joint nationals there are in Sudan, I understand the complexity. It has been, in a way, a positive in the past that we have never counted people in and out. I have a degree of understanding of the complexity of the operations, but what is the estimate, and for how long do we anticipate the ability to have evacuations? I will return to the need for expanding the 72-hour temporary cessation of hostilities to a longer term in a moment.

Will the Minister provide the House with an update on British Council staff? British Council staff had to shelter in place within the British Council offices. Are all British Council staff accounted for? What is the status of local Sudanese staff who worked in our embassy and in the British Council? What is the status of the local staff who supported the work of the UK Government there, who also require our support and assistance? What is the Minister’s assessment of where they are?

The need to extend the 72-hour cessation is now of paramount importance. I endorse the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, with regards to IGAD and those working for it. I know the IGAD representative, the former Foreign Minister of Somaliland, who had been doing good work there. I believe that there is an opportunity to try to refocus some of the work, if we can secure a further humanitarian window. What is now the Government’s primary aim with regards to securing the extension of the 72 hours which has been brokered by the United States and the Saudis? I believe it is now vital that the 72 hours becomes a further 72 hours, and that we focus not only on bringing people out but on getting humanitarian assistance in. There is little point in sending empty planes to Sudan to bring out foreign nationals if we have an opportunity to get medical assistance in. That means that any extension of the ceasefire should be monitorable, and that there should be warnings that there is no impunity for those who would break such a humanitarian corridor, should it be established.

I believe very strongly that such an extension would aid the worry for British nationals; if there is no reliable safe route to the area from which they might be evacuated, they have to take their own risk to get there. What is the UK doing with our partners to ensure a whole network of safe routes that can become reliable and trustworthy? There is real fear from people in Omdurman and Khartoum who have contacted me just today that the two combating forces are reassessing their strength and waiting until the end of a humanitarian window in order to recommence work. We must prevent this happening. If the Minister can update us on initiatives for that, I would be very grateful.

Can the Minister say what advice and support we are providing to the immediate relatives of British nationals, as well as to those who have sought access to the UK through existing visa applications? Are we working with the UN on humanitarian papers and access for those categories of people?

What is the Government’s advice to those in the UK, both from the diaspora community and elsewhere, who wish to donate or provide medicine or other equipment? How can they do that and get it to the people who need it? Equally, we need to ensure that the warring parties cannot replenish their munitions and supplies, so what work are we doing with our international partners to ensure that those forces, whether governmental or non-governmental, that have offered assistance for replenishment of arms are warned in the strongest possible terms that they may be contributing to war crimes?

Finally, I am travelling to Nairobi tomorrow, where I will engage with former Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok to try to scope where there may be an opportunity for some form of civilian dialogue that can offer reassurance or hope for the people of Sudan that, in the medium and long term, there will be a civilian and then democratic Administration in that country. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that this is not the Sudanese people’s war, nor their fault. Some hope should be provided at this time of great horror. I am grateful for the Government’s support for that initiative. If the Minister can respond to my other points, it would provide some reassurance to people to whom we owe a great debt of support.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for this opportunity to respond to questions and provide an update on the increasingly troubling situation in Sudan.

Ten days ago, fierce fighting broke out in Khartoum. It has since spread to Omdurman, Darfur and other Sudanese cities. As noble Lords will know, a violent power struggle is ongoing between the Sudanese army and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces. The UK unequivocally condemns that violence and welcomes the 72-hour ceasefire agreed on Monday. Like the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and everyone else in this Chamber, we would welcome an extension of it, but it would be risky to base our plans on the assumption that those discussions would succeed. We call on the Sudanese armed forces and the Rapid Support Forces to ensure that this ceasefire holds—the previous one did not.

The situation is grave. More than 427 people have been killed, including five aid workers, and over 3,700 people have been injured. Before this violence began, the humanitarian situation in Sudan was already deteriorating. We now estimate that approximately 15.6 million people—a third of the Sudanese population —are in need of humanitarian assistance. These numbers, I am sorry to say, will continue to rise.

Given the rapidly deteriorating security situation, the Government took the difficult decision to evacuate all British embassy staff and their dependants to fulfil our duty as their employer to protect our staff. This highly complex operation was completed on Sunday. It involved more than 1,200 personnel from 16 Air Assault Brigade, the Royal Marines and the RAF. I am sure noble Lords will join me, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, did earlier, in commending the brilliant work of our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and the bravery of our service men and women in completing the operation successfully, in enormously complex and dangerous circumstances. I also pay tribute to our international partners for their ongoing co-operation in aligning our rescue responses and to the crisis centre in the FCDO, where more than 200 officials are working tirelessly and seamlessly across government to co-ordinate the UK response.

The safety and security of British nationals continues to be our utmost priority. We began supported departures on Monday, prioritising British passport holders and their families. Our support for British nationals has not been impacted by the relocation of British embassy staff, who continue to operate around the clock from a neighbouring country alongside staff here in London working 24/7 to support British nationals and promote a peaceful resolution. We are asking all British nationals in Sudan to register their presence with us. In response to a question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I say that our latest figures are that 2,500 people are already registered and now receiving at least daily updates by text and email. That helps enable us to remain in contact and monitor their well-being while we find a safe passage from Sudan in highly complex circumstances.

Despite the ceasefire, the situation remains highly volatile, and movement around the capital is extremely dangerous. No evacuation options come without risk to life and, in most cases, serious risk to life. Khartoum Airport is out of action, energy supplies are disrupted, food and water are becoming increasingly scarce, and internet and telephone networks are becoming difficult to access, with levels of 2% in some parts. We continue to advise all British nationals in Sudan who do not have departure plans to remain indoors where possible. We recognise that circumstances will vary in different locations, so we are asking people to exercise their own judgment about whether to relocate as we initiate an evacuation plan during this unpredictable ceasefire.

We are following closely reports of independent convoys departing Khartoum for Port Sudan. The British embassy has no involvement in those convoys so I emphasise that joining them would be at British nationals’ own risk. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked how many British nationals, other than those working for the Government, had been evacuated; as of 6 am today, that number was 231.

Ending the violence is the single most important thing we can do to guarantee the safety of British nationals and, of course, everyone in Sudan. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State for Defence have all been in continuous contact with international allies and key regional partners since this outbreak of violence, to agree a joint approach to both evacuation and de-escalation of violence. Over the weekend, the Prime Minister spoke to his counterparts, including Egypt’s President Sisi. The Foreign Secretary was in contact with the Kenyan President, the US Secretary of State, the Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Sweden, Turkey and Cyprus, and the EU high representative for foreign and security policy. The Defence Secretary has engaged with counterparts in Djibouti, as well as in the US, France and Egypt. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that the Minister of State for Africa has spoken to the African Union and the Prime Minister in exile of Sudan, upon whom so many hopes had rested. Further escalation of this conflict, particularly if it spills into neighbouring countries, would clearly be disastrous. As we continue to make clear, this must a be a genuine and lasting ceasefire.

To conclude, the Government are working round the clock to ensure the safety of our nationals, and to support and encourage all parties to maintain this current ceasefire. A peaceful political transition to democracy and civilian governance is still possible in Sudan, but while the fighting continues, we expect those casualty numbers that I cited earlier to rise. Government departments and military personnel are working hand in glove to initiate a safe evacuation for our nationals in incredibly complex and challenging circumstances. The Government undertake to keep the House informed and, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned, there will be an update tomorrow.