Russia: War Crimes in Ukraine

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 17th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I recognise my noble friend consistently raising the abhorrent crime of taking children from Ukraine to Russia. I know I speak for every Member of your Lordships’ House when I say that this abhorrent practice must stop immediately. We are working with key agencies, including the UN, to ensure the rapid return of these children. It is regularly raised at G7 level and bilaterally as well. On the final point, it is another appalling example of what Russia is doing not just to the Ukrainian people but to the future of Ukraine as well.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, in addition to the totality of the consequences of the aggression on Ukraine, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said, there are hundreds of thousands of individual victims who are being recorded on the Ukrainian register for damages. Does the Minister agree that the tribunal has a good opportunity of being the basis upon which repatriation and support for individual victims can be operated? Does the Minister also agree that there is nothing preventing the UK instituting a windfall tax on the asset values now, rather than seizing assets, so that we can start to provide support for individual victims, especially women who have been the victims of sexual aggression?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s final point, he will know that, as the Prime Minister’s Special Representative on Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict, I am very much seized of this and we are working with the first lady of Ukraine on the issue. The register is an important element; that is why the UK has been a strong advocate—indeed, at a previous meeting with our European partners, I signed that register on behalf of the United Kingdom. On the accountability mechanism, we are working with key partners, including the US, to ensure that we get the right mechanism to ensure that it is legally based, internationally founded and applied and ultimately provides accountability and support to the tragic victims and survivors of the crimes to which the noble Lord alludes.

Afghan Refugees

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 17th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, on supporting those who supported the British effort, the noble Lord will know that we have prioritised those in Chevening—the British Council—as well as GardaWorld, and we have made good progress. Since October 2023, the UK has completed a series of about 24 charter flights and relocated over 5,500 individuals from Pakistan under the UK’s ongoing Afghan relocation programme.

I have taken up the issue of undocumented individuals directly with the previous administration. I met with Foreign Minister Dar, and yesterday I had a call with the new Law and Human Rights Minister of Pakistan, during which these issues were discussed. There has been no formal announcement by the Government of Pakistan. I would also add that a sizeable number of those who returned to Afghanistan more recently did so voluntarily, but some people have been forced to return. On those who have qualified to come to the United Kingdom, we are working directly with the Government of Pakistan through our High Commission and ensuring through direct engagement that their position can be normalised.

I know that noble Lords have been very much seized of the issue of those who served. The noble Lord talked about the vote last night, and I am sure we will be discussing that later this afternoon. Through the ARAP scheme, we continue to support many of the people who supported our military work, and we continue to work with our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence to make sure that passports and documents can be issued as soon as possible for those who are eligible to come to the UK, and that they can be facilitated to do so.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that I respect him greatly, but he must understand that it is completely jarring to say that we are working with the UNHCR and the IOM to ensure that Pakistan adheres to its international obligations on migration, especially since those organisations themselves have singled out the United Kingdom as being in breach of those very commitments. Indeed, the Pakistan interim Prime Minister, writing in the Telegraph on 8 December last year, cited the Rwanda Bill as support for what they are doing. Can the Minister be clear and precise: what are the concerns about potential breaches of the commitments under international obligations for Pakistan that the Government consider are at risk, and how many individuals who could be eligible for support in the UK are currently in limbo and are potentially going to be repatriated to Afghanistan?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have made sizeable progress with those people who are eligible, and we have had changes in Pakistan. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we have worked across the different Governments to ensure that those who have a legitimate claim to travel to the United Kingdom and seek protection here are facilitated. On the ACRS scheme, which the noble Lord and others were seized with, we are seeing some really good progress. I get weekly updates on the progress made under those schemes, and we work very closely with the UNHCR and the IOM. As far as the United Kingdom’s standing in world goes in support of these international agencies, we remain a very strong supporter and indeed funder of the vital work they do.

India: Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

We have an excellent dialogue with the Indian Government in all sorts of ways. In fact, I spoke to Foreign Minister Jaishankar at the weekend. My noble friend Lord Ahmad visits frequently and has a very deep dialogue. I have a good relationship with Prime Minister Modi, and we discuss all these things.

In terms of meeting the sustainable development goals, the most important thing India can do is to continue to grow and lift people out of poverty. I think it is true that there are more people in India below the poverty line than in sub-Saharan Africa. The need for India to grow and pull people out of poverty is great. Obviously, one thing we will discuss at the G20 and elsewhere is how to scale up the multilateral development banks, in which India has a voice, to make sure that we have the financing available to meet those development goals.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the democratic elections in India are a positive for the whole world and are to be commended to the Indian authorities. But all too often there has been harassment and intimidation by the Indian Government when there has been reporting of human rights concerns, as well as freedom of religion concerns, including the necessity for the BBC uniquely to restructure in India so that it is no longer operating there like it operates in any other country. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that we are not offering market access to India for media, data and telecoms on an unequal basis? The freedoms that we should enjoy in this country when it comes to the BBC and open media to report human rights concerns should exist in India also. We should not give preferential market access here when we are not offered it there.

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point about the rumbustious nature of Indian democracy. India should be proud of being the biggest democracy in the world. As with all democracies, there are imperfections—as there are in our own country. We should celebrate the scale of India’s democracy.

The point the noble Lord makes about the BBC is important. My understanding is that India passed a law insisting that digital media companies had to be Indian-owned, and the BBC has had to restructure on that basis. That is not the British way—insisting that all media have to be domestically owned—although I know that some in this place and elsewhere have been tempted by those moves; I have sometimes fantasised about that when reading things that I have read. None the less, that is the reason why the BBC has restructured, together with some disagreements with India.

I will take away and look at the point that the noble Lord then made about the trade deal. My understanding of where we are with the trade deal is that good market access has been offered on both sides, but not quite enough yet to secure a deal. It is important with such trade deals, as you only really get one proper shot at it, to make sure that it is a good enough deal that will be welcomed by industry leaders here in the UK as offering real market access. On the point on media access, I will have to go away and look at that. Personally, I would say that we should open up media access on both sides to make sure we have a good plurality of media.

Council of Europe: 75th Anniversary

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 16th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I did look at the dissenting judgment, and I thought it was pretty frank and clear. We have made reforms to the European Court of Human Rights. The noble Lord, Lord Clarke, battled very hard in the coalition Government to achieve the Brighton Declaration, which was an improvement, and we have made some changes recently on Article 39, so there are changes you can make. But I think it will depend partly on the court’s attitude to how far it takes its mission beyond the actual convention rights. I am not an expert on the convention, but I do not think that it mentions climate change and, as I said, climate change or the rights that we have in terms of our health service or education are things that we should be legislating for in Parliament, by politicians accountable to their electorates, rather than depending on a court. So reform is necessary and reform is going through, but I think there also needs to be a balance about leaving to nation states those things that they should be deciding themselves.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, one of the significant committees in the Council of Europe is the Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. The Foreign Secretary will be aware that the committee raised concerns last year about UK immigration policy regarding the detention of vulnerable people who are seeking asylum, no matter how they get to the UK. The Foreign Secretary’s signature is on the Rwanda treaty, which, enabled by the Rwanda Bill, will mean that a trafficked woman who ends up in the UK against her knowledge and against her will through an irregular route will now be detained and sent to Rwanda under his policy. As the committee said, that is a reversal of the commitments given by the Prime Minister in 2016

“to introduce a clear presumption against detention of vulnerable people”.

Does the Foreign Secretary agree with me that, on the 75th anniversary of the Council of Europe, we should be strengthening our support for vulnerable trafficked people coming to the UK rather than reneging on the commitments given?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

What we should be doing is dealing with the problem of very visible illegal migration, which is a problem not just in this country but all over the world. To do that, every country has to come up with an answer on what it is going to do. As I have explained at this Dispatch Box before, it is not possible to do immediate returns to France—that is not something that is currently negotiable —and that is why we have the Rwanda judgment. I have been looking at this issue for well over a decade, and I remember the Chahal case back in the 1990s, where the court determined that you could not balance +the risk to Britain of a dangerous terrorist staying and the risk to that dangerous terrorist if they were deported; there was no balance, as the right was absolute. You can argue that that is a good thing or a bad thing, but my argument would be that that is the sort of thing that we need to debate and decide in Parliament rather than simply rely on a court.

Christians: Persecution

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I also commend the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, for bringing this debate, with particularly good timing, as she noted, given the religious holiday that is coming up. For billions of people on the planet, this will be a time to celebrate their faith, family and community, but, regrettably, as has been pointed out during this sober debate, with many dreadful statistics of the scale of the issue, too many Christians will not be able to do so in security and will be fearful of persecution.

I commend the Minister for his work on freedom of religion or belief. As he points out regularly in the Chamber, that freedom is also for those without religion or who do not practise belief. He regularly responds with sincerity and passion about the need for people to practise their own private faith, free from state persecution. I commend the FCDO for the work it has done over recent years—not only the global conferences and the convening power of UK diplomats, but also the training of our own staff to be able to identify those areas where there is likely to be persecution and the growth of extremism, because this is also an issue of security and prevention of conflict. At home, also, in recent months, we have had to debate the wholly unacceptable rise of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia; they have no place in modern Britain. They have never had a place in Britain.

My party’s constitution starts with the words:

“we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no-one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity”.

As with others in the Chamber during this debate, when we have seen persecution in China, with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Falun Gong at risk of persecution, or in Algeria with Christian groups and the Ahmadiyya Muslim community reporting difficulties, or in the Gulf, in Bahrain or Saudi Arabia, we reject the persecution and call them out. More recently, questions in this Chamber have related to concerns that exist within India and Afghanistan, where concerns about Christians, Sikhs and Hazaras have been raised.

Regrettably, the list is too long, because we have also discussed today, at length, the situations in Nigeria and in Eritrea; concerns about the growth of terrorist groups such as Boko Haram—which even has in the words of its title the forbidding of education, which is deeply chilling—and Islamic State in west Africa, which has had at its very heart the persecution of minorities; and the concerns about the impact on the Pentecostal Church and Shia Islam.

I recognise that many sovereign states have established religions. As was pointed out, the UK is no different—the world watched our Head of State being crowned in a religious ceremony, not a civil one. England, not a nation in the UK where I live, has an established Church, which has legislators among its members—we were graced with a contribution today.

There is long-standing anxiety about political Islam, and many communities over centuries have been worried about political Christianity too. We in this country need to have a degree of self-awareness that established Churches have all too often been used by repressive or reactionary political leaders to deny rights rather than to give them. The Minister and his colleagues have done excellent work in the sensitive area of working with countries—some friendly—that still retain apostasy laws, for example, and have denied rights to women and children in the name of religion, often incredibly inaccurately so, as the Minister pointed out.

When I campaigned against the death penalty in Uganda, I was told by the Anglican community there that it would support my work on the condition that I did not campaign for LGBT rights. The Anglican community in the Commonwealth is not a homogenous one. It is worth noting that too many of the examples that we have heard in this debate, and too many of the watch countries highlighted by NGOs and the FCDO, are Commonwealth nations. In too many, progressive reforms can be all too problematic.

In recent weeks and months, we have seen religious political leaders using the faith of their own followers as a political tool, such as the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Carnegie Endowment said:

“When Russia invaded Ukraine, the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) did not hesitate to throw its support behind the Kremlin’s war against a neighboring Orthodox nation. Far from wavering, that support has only grown more strident as the war progressed”.


The Anglican leader in Rwanda speaks out in favour of the UK immigration agreement, and Anglican leaders in this House speak against it. There is, of course, an element of healthy debate, which needs to be encouraged, but, perhaps now more than for many years, as the noble Lord, Lord Curry, indicated, political leaders are using belief in God as a defence and a motive for repressive actions. It is striking that most who do this are the least godly of all. It gives licence to groups to persecute minorities and for there to be impunity for it.

Of course, it is not new—it is centuries, if not millennia, old—and in some areas we struggle to reconcile the contemporary consequences of such past actions. The racist undertones of British imperial expansion reflected the “three Cs” of colonialism: civilisation, Christianity and commerce. Coming to terms with this is hard; England’s established Church recently rejected its oversight body’s finding that contributing less than 1% over 10 years of its endowment funds which were originally based on the proceeds of exploiting enslaved people was too little over too long a timeframe.

None of this historical reflection, or indeed how contemporary political leaders are abusing faith for political and corrupt ends, can defend or excuse the persecution of Christian people seeking to practise their own faith. I support their ability to do that unflinchingly.

Given the Private Member’s Bill to establish a statutory envoy, can the Minister assure the House that there will be enough time in both Houses to see this on to the statute book? Are the Government seeking amendments to widen its scope and capacity?

I close by reflecting on one point. The noble Baroness indicated that the persecution of Christians is far too underreported, and no doubt she is absolutely right, but given the context of the Middle East and what is happening in Gaza and Israel, this is a personal comment from my friend, Layla Moran, whose mother is a Christian Arab from Jerusalem and who has family members seeking shelter in the Holy Family Church in Gaza. She said:

“I am on the side of basic humanity … I am on the side of the Israeli community, the Palestinian community and the Jewish, Muslim and Christian communities”.—[Official Report, Commons, 25/10/23; col. 913.]


Protecting people’s ability to practise their faith should be an element of basic humanity.

Israel and Gaza

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that, following the 7 October attacks, we were all shocked and appalled by the allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in those attacks. Like many other countries—the US, Germany, Italy, Finland, Switzerland and the Netherlands—we suspended funding. However, the noble Lord is right to raise the importance of the reports. We have spoken repeatedly—as has my noble friend—about the important role that UNRWA has played in providing aid and services. We have continued our support through other agencies, and the Foreign Secretary and I have been advocating very strongly for the opening up of new land access points to Gaza, which is showing progress. For example, we saw 185 trucks get through the Kerem Shalom crossing.

On the two reports, I can assure the noble Lord that the UK is fully engaged, primarily through our excellent ambassador at the UN, Dame Barbara Woodward. There is a briefing for UN Security Council Permanent Representatives on the interim findings of Catherine Colonna’s report at 8.30 New York time today. We are following this very closely, but there are important measures and mitigations that need to be put in place. While we recognise the important role of UNRWA, we must ensure that any resumption of new funding to UNRWA from the United Kingdom is based on those mitigations being in place.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister is aware that I asked the Foreign Secretary last week about concerns over potential breaches of international humanitarian law. The Department for Business and Trade instigated a change of circumstances review for export licences for military equipment in December, and the significance of the concerns has only grown since then. Can the Minister confirm that this is probably the appropriate time for that review to err on the side of caution and for the UK to follow Canada in pausing the export licences for military equipment to the Government of Israel?

Secondly, given the concerns about two of the Ministers within the Netanyahu coalition—Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, against whom these Benches have called for actions to be taken—can the Minister update the House on discussions between the UK Government and the Israeli Government on a free trade agreement? Does he agree that it is probably not appropriate to continue discussions about a free trade agreement with those two Ministers at this time?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be fully aware that, as the Minister responsible, I called out the statements made by the two Ministers he named as inflammatory and not reflective of a majority of progressively minded and right-minded people and citizens of Israel across all communities who do not adhere to the statements made by those Ministers; we have rejected those words. The more substantive issue of IHL is important; we regularly review our assessment and we have previously assessed that Israel is complying with IHL. The noble Lord will have heard the words of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary about the importance of this and, while we will not give a running commentary, we have to go through specific processes in this regard, and I assure him that we are seized of this.

Hong Kong Security Legislation

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, in spite of what the Minister says about the UK saying that there is an ongoing breach, the first time a Minister of His Majesty’s Government visited Hong Kong, it was the Investment Minister, Lord Johnson. He did not raise Jimmy Lai with Hong Kong or Chinese officials; he did not raise human rights with officials; he did not raise the sanctioning of democracies; and he did not meet democracy campaigners in Hong Kong. The Minister made only one media comment saying that the British Government were concerned about human rights. In his comments today, the Foreign Secretary said that he was concerned that this would impact on investment. Is the UK so dependent on Chinese imports of goods and Hong Kong investment that we will not act when it comes to enforcement on what we believe should be human rights breaches? Why do Ministers visit Hong Kong but not raise these issues with Chinese officials?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As the noble Lord mentioned, on the visit of the last Minister, he did, according to our records, raise the issue of human rights. That is a consistent policy; I, as the Minister for human rights, ensure that they are included in briefings, wherever they are and with whatever Minister.

I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis: as I demonstrated in my response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we have consistently raised the issue of Jimmy Lai specifically. On the issue of not acting, we have. When it comes to broader issues around human rights—for example, the noble Lord will be aware of Xinjiang—the United Kingdom has been instrumental and has led action at both the UN Human Rights Council and the UN in New York.

India: Democratic Freedoms

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Thursday 14th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I would not compare India in any shape or form to Russia—we have to be very clear about that. On the specific case that the noble Lord raised, he will be aware that, following speculation on it, a thorough review undertaken by the West Midlands Police concluded that there were no suspicious circumstances. On the wider issues the noble Lord raised, the CAA, which he referred to, was a specific provision, and we have of course raised concerns related to that. But it is clear that it provides freedom of religion or belief protections and minority protections for people seeking citizenship in India from neighbouring Islamic states. We have raised concerns about minorities within the Muslim communities from those states. This amendment allows someone to get citizenship within five years, but Muslims from those states will still be allowed to get citizenship within the 11 years specified.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, further to the noble Baroness’s question on press freedom, I know this has been a focus of the Minister’s work on human rights. Across its services, the BBC provides more services to Indians than the entire population of the United Kingdom, but, as a result of harassment and intimidation, it has had to uniquely restructure its presence within India to operate from a purely private sector entity. Will the Minister reassure me that officials from the Department for Business and Trade who are negotiating an FTA with India will not provide a market-access offer for Indians to have opportunities in the UK media market while those are not reciprocal for broadcasters such as the BBC within India?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right. This Government stand up for media freedom and the protection of media. Indeed, the current Chancellor of the Exchequer initiated such a programme during his time as Foreign Secretary, and we stand by that coalition. We continue to raise those specific concerns related to the BBC with the Government of India, and I assure the noble Lord that, on the positive progress on the FTA, we want to ensure that it is an agreement that works for both countries, that is robust and that is in the interest of all communities, sectors and industries in India and the United Kingdom.

Haiti

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I am afraid that I cannot give an update on exact timings. As the noble Lord knows, the UN has given backing through a Security Council resolution to the existence of this force, so it is not a UN force but it is UN-backed, which is important. I agree about the general point that it is so important for it to be able to do its work. People who follow these things use what I think is the rather odd phrase that the state has to have a monopoly on violence, but it is true: we cannot possibly have development, progress and success when there are quite so many different armed groups in charge of different parts of that country.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Kenyan judges have indicated that the deployment of the Kenyan police forces would be illegal under Kenyan law unless there was a reciprocal agreement with the Haitian authorities. That is why the former Prime Minister of Haiti was in Nairobi. Now there is no vehicle by which to have this authorised by the Kenyan Government. What is the Foreign Secretary’s assessment about the capability of having those forces deployed, since there will be no functioning Government of Haiti with whom to have a reciprocal agreement? Given that there have been no elections for eight years, no functioning Parliament, no functioning judiciary and the warning signs last week of the violent gangs, Haiti is potentially slipping towards becoming a failed state. What technical support are we providing to those who may provide security assistance?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

The noble Lord is certainly right that the failure to hold elections is one of the contributing factors to the chaos that we now see. After the assassination of the former President, the fact that elections were not held was clearly one of the aggravating factors. The role of the Kenyan forces is a matter for Kenya to decide. I think that, with the United States providing $300 million and the backing of the UN Security Council, it will be possible to put together a mission. As I said, it is not something that Britain will contribute to in terms of personnel, but we are happy to make a small financial contribution.

Gaza: Humanitarian Aid

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

I am delighted that Mark Bryson-Richardson, who I appointed as my aid co-ordinator, has met with COGAT; that is very useful. I can say to my noble friend that, yes, of course, getting more aid into Gaza requires the work of more than just Israel taking the relevant steps. But Israel is the country that could make the greatest difference, because some of the blockages, screening problems and all the rest of it are its responsibility. One proof point of that is that 18 trucks were dispatched from Jordan and they were held for 18 days at the Allenby/King Hussein bridge crossing. That seems to me the sort of the thing we need to act on faster to get that aid into Gaza. As I said in answer to the previous question, once it is in Gaza, it needs people to distribute it. That is about visas and capabilities, and deconfliction.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

The Foreign Secretary was very eloquent in describing the unnecessary blockages that have been put in place. He will agree with me that Article 50 of the Geneva Convention, on the requirement on occupying powers for children, is that they will not

“hinder the application of … food, medical care and protection … in favour of children under fifteen years, expectant mothers and mothers of children under seven years”.

Does the Foreign Secretary agree that these hindrances and blockages are potentially a war crime under the Geneva Convention and that, if any Ministers in the Israeli Government are actively blocking the inward supply of aid, we should consider sanctioning them?

[Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)]

It is our legal position, and has been for some time, that Israel is the occupying power in Gaza; that was the case before 7 October. After the evacuation of Gaza in 2005, it was not truly freed up as an independent functioning territory, so it is true that the way that Israel behaves as the occupying power in allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza is a material consideration when it comes to looking at how it is complying with international humanitarian law. As I have said many times at this Dispatch Box already, what matters is whether it has the commitment and the capability, and whether it is complying. That is what we keep under review.