Grenfell Tower: Bureau Veritas

Debate between Lord Rooker and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Rooker for continuing to probe on this important matter. The Grenfell Tower Inquiry thoroughly and independently examined the cause of the fire and the roles of various actors. While it was referenced in the final report, the inquiry did not criticise Bureau Veritas for its role in lift inspections at Grenfell or cladding testing. Any legal or investigative matters now sit with the appropriate authorities.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that, but is she aware that Bureau Veritas staff were inside flat 16 with the London Fire Brigade, as a contractor, before 1 am on the night of the fire, and that Bureau Veritas’s contract to inspect the lifts was out of time during the fire? On the final point, is the Minister aware that the firm that issued the quality management ISO 9001 certification for the cladding on Grenfell, made by Arconic, was Bureau Veritas in Philadelphia? I have looked at all the sites and I have not found anywhere any declarations of possible conflict of interest on all these points—that one firm was involved in so many aspects. I have only used three; there are other aspects that I could have used.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

To respond to my noble friend’s important points, the Grenfell Tower Inquiry thoroughly and independently examined the cause of the fire and the roles of various actors and set out its findings publicly. Although referenced within the final report, the inquiry did not criticise Bureau Veritas for its role in lift inspection or cladding testing. The ISO 9001 certification and cladding assessment certification are two different things, and it is important that we do not confuse them. ISO 9001 is an international standard widely used to assess a company’s quality management system; it is not specific to a product. Bureau Veritas certified Arconic to ISO 9001 standards, but the product certification for the cladding that was used on Grenfell Towers was issued by the British Board of Agrément. The inquiry finding suggests that Arconic concealed test data from the British Board of Agrément. Any legal or investigative matters relating to this now rightly sit with the appropriate authorities.

Renters’ Rights Bill

Debate between Lord Rooker and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 1st July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I have not personally discussed the issue with Defra, but I am sure that officials in MHCLG will have done so, and—

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

If my noble friend the Minister does discuss it with Defra, she will find that Defra has nothing like the numbers of people with experience of farming that it had 10 years ago. It has been completely denuded and she would not find the answer to the question asked by the noble Baroness opposite.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I was about to say, before the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, intervened, that I am always happy to discuss these important issues further with noble Lords and to refer back to colleagues in Defra and elsewhere. Nevertheless, I ask the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, to withdraw his amendment.

Local Government: Electoral Quotas

Debate between Lord Rooker and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 11th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

It is very important that people do not lose their sense of place as this devolution programme goes forward, and they will not. The places will still exist. I have been talking to the associations that reflect the views of local councils—town and parish councils. We will support them in local areas, so they will definitely have a voice in this new system. The electorate will of course be able to decide at election times whether they are being properly represented.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Does my noble friend recall the point about not having national equality for local government? Whereas the average ward in London had 6,000 electors, the average ward in Leeds had 15,000 electors and the average ward in Birmingham had 20,000 electors. You cannot run a national system when you have such a variety of issues. Surely it must suit the locality.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

The boundary commission is focused on making sure that the structure of the electoral wards and divisions meets the needs of the council concerned; that is, in respect of the types of decisions being taken, the need for strategic leadership in those areas to enable the appropriate scrutiny of decisions and making sure that councillors can meet their community responsibilities. It has been doing this for decades, and I am sure it will continue to do so.

Council Tax

Debate between Lord Rooker and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rooker]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to make council tax more progressive.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)]

My Lords, there are currently no plans to reform council tax. I suppose I should sit down now. It is a widely understood tax with a high collection rate and contains a range of discounts and exemptions to reflect personal circumstances. Local authorities are also required to run local council tax support schemes to provide reductions to those on low incomes.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend, but how is it that a £12 million penthouse in Islington pays £1,000 less in council tax than a £1.5 million manor house in Hartlepool? It is eight times the value, yet it pays £1,000 less. This is why council tax is so regressive, and no tough decisions have been taken for 34 years. When people no longer know what a tax is for or how it is fixed, and they see this unfairness, that risks bringing the whole system into disrepute. It is a major political and social risk. Why are we taking it?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, we all know that there are problems caused by outdated valuations and the regressive nature of council tax. However, a widescale reform of the system would be time-consuming and complex, and we are committed to keeping tax on working people as low as possible. The Government will carefully consider the impact on councils and taxpayers before taking any further decisions on council tax.

Cladding Remediation

Debate between Lord Rooker and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising that point. I will have another look at it, but that guidance is very clear. They are industry-accepted standards, so they should be adhered to.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Why do the Government not arrange for the blocks of flats that still have dangerous cladding to be fitted with equipment to prevent neutral current diversions causing a fire in the first place? The fear of fire has got to be a serious issue. Given that the most expensive three blocks of flats in London are fitted with such equipment, I do not see why it should not be fitted to all those flats where people are living in fear and still with dangerous cladding.