Electricity and Gas (Energy Company Obligation) Order 2022

Debate between Lord Teverson and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Tuesday 12th July 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, there have been a few changes in the Government over the past week and it is excellent to see the Minister still here. I took the opportunity to look up his responsibilities, because there has been a bit of a shuffle in BEIS and I was even more delighted to see that he has responsibility specifically for energy efficiency—I think he had it before; the climate change side has moved slightly. I am delighted that energy efficiency remains with the ministerial purview of this House.

I also welcome the fact that the Government tabled an amendment on Report to the UK Infrastructure Bank Bill to include energy efficiency specifically as part of the bank’s remit in terms of its investment. I think the whole House very much welcomed that change. They could have done one or two other things, but at least we had that.

On ECO and the prior schemes, I read a report by the Energy & Climate Intelligence Unit—ECIU. I am on its advisory board and it is one of the better of these think tanks. It was interesting that the report reckoned that between 2009 and 2019 some 6 million homes had been improved to band C in energy performance. It estimated that that amounted to a 20% cut in their gas demand, which meant that on an annual basis now those households were saving £1.2 billion. Clearly, that is significant.

Those figures are from 2009 to 2019 and the ECO scheme came in in 2013, but the number of applications dived hugely over the past eight years and only now has started to tick upwards again. It was interesting to read in the Explanatory Memorandum that some 2.4 million homes had made applications to the ECO scheme, but in 2020 we still had 3.5 million homes in energy poverty. Think about that. There were applications for 2.4 million homes but at the end of that process there were still 3.5 million homes in fuel poverty—and that was before the huge price rises in energy that we are now seeing.

The Minister mentioned 450,000 applications and taking them out of fuel poverty. There is no chance of taking homes out of fuel poverty at the moment. We are going to add to that because of the energy prices that there are.

I know this from my own experience. At the beginning of this year I paid a monthly standing order to Octopus Energy of £212. This month I paid £355. That is not my only energy cost, but I admit that, for me, it is not a crisis. But, my goodness, for people outside that is an horrific increase in their energy bills.

I suppose I just want to make the same old argument again that there is so much to be gained from these programmes, as that statistic from the ECIU suggested, but at the moment they are only a pinprick—a drop in the ocean—in terms of what we actually need. Of course, it is easy to say that if we were not starting from where we are now but from before George Osborne as Chancellor of the Exchequer massacred the various energy efficiency schemes’ futures in terms of new homes and those sorts of applications, my goodness we would be in a better position than we are now. We are in a position where the Government are spending £37 billion, I think it is, on putting right the cost of living crisis, much of which is driven by energy costs, yet all of that is just to stand still, and I am not the first person to say that. If only we were managing to put that money into these sorts of schemes, my goodness those fuel poverty numbers would start to come down rather than inevitably skyrocketing, as they will. That is my comment on this. As the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, said, how can one argue that this is an improvement? As I said, it is a drop in the ocean, given what we need to do.

My question follows on from what the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, said. One of the lessons from the disaster of the green homes grant was that the bit that involved local authorities actually worked. I am interested to understand how our local authorities, which are so much better at understanding their local communities and the issue of fuel poverty, will be tied in to the way the ECO4 scheme is delivered.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, like many others, I thank the Minister for his explanation of what this order achieves: introducing the latest energy company obligation, ECO4, replacing ECO3, which came to an end in March. I start by echoing what the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, said, about the effects of the delay. Has any assessment or estimate been made of the effects of the delay between 1 April and the new regulations coming in?

As we heard, the order will place a cost-reduction obligation on gas and electricity suppliers that exceed domestic supply thresholds, requiring them to promote the installation of energy efficiency and heating measures to reduce the cost to low-income and vulnerable households. Unlike ECO1 and ECO2, which were centrally funded, I understand that this obligation to fund and finance again falls on the energy companies using their own resources, as was the case with ECO3.

If this understanding is correct, can the Minister confirm what assessment was made of the difference in impact between these two approaches, given that we now have examples of both? Given that energy suppliers will incur these costs, which will need to be recouped, we can expect them to be passed on directly to customers through energy bills. As others have asked, is this really the best approach at this time, given the energy crisis? Will any steps be taken to encourage or even obligate energy companies not to pass costs on to customers who can ill afford them at this time? In reality, if they are passed on, it will be the consumers and customers who will be paying for the upgrades of their own homes.

As the Minister outlined, the objectives of this order are to help alleviate fuel poverty, accelerate progress to meet fuel poverty targets, contribute to carbon reduction, reduce the costs of meeting the renewable energy target and encourage innovation. All of these are welcome, as is the targeting of vulnerable and low-income households. If the target we have heard about of annual bill savings of £224 million is reached, this will make a real difference.

Ecodesign for Energy-Related Products and Energy Information (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Lord Teverson and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps I will be more positive about these regulations and make the Minister feel better. I very much welcome the tone of the Explanatory Memorandum and its emphasis on the benefits of energy efficiency, which is clearly one of the least costly and most effective ways to reduce our carbon footprint. In fact, energy efficiency is one of the reasons why although energy prices have gone up, energy bills for households have gone down. This time, the irony is on not the Government but the broader British media because the famous Brussels-regulations-related vacuum cleaner efficiency scandal foisted on British citizens by the tabloids will remain. I welcome those product standards coming across.

My question are quite practical. I think that the Minister went through this, but who will police or register this matter and what will the additional cost of that be? Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, who will hold the register? Is the IT for that complete? How will what is on the European Union register get on to the UK register? That covers a series of intellectual property rights issues. We came across this with the REACH chemicals database: you cannot just copy this information across. How can we have a robust system that works in this regard? Without that, this scheme cannot work.

I understand the Minister’s point about continuing labels for a while but, more importantly, will it be legal to sell all the electric appliances covered by this SI in our home market from the point of our departure? I want to understand whether the preparation in those technical areas is right and things will work. Legislation is great but if it cannot work, even passing these regulations is not a lot of use.

[Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Lab)]

My Lords, again, I am standing in for my noble friend Lord Grantchester so I apologise to my team in the Box if I do not get the language quite right. I spent time going through the regulations. The SI is quite a tome. I feel as if it covers more than just one issue and a number of SIs have been merged together.

I start with a point about no deal because large swathes of the SI cover that scenario. I know that it also covers what will be needed if there is a deal, but the parts of the SI covering a no-deal scenario would not be needed if the Government agreed with us and ruled out a no-deal Brexit. That would save so much effort, energy, time and money.

Looking at the specifics, like the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, I have a number of questions flowing from the draft SI. I want to work through those issues, some of which are technical and some of which are a bit wider than that.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee declared the draft SI of interest to the House. I am sure that it will be scrutinised further after today. One of the big themes that came through—and one of my concerns—is about the powers that would be moved to the Secretary of State. There are a number of issues around that. The Minister said that these powers are about protecting and preserving the current standards, possibly increasing and building on them, but I do not see that in the language of the draft SI. Part of it says that the Secretary of State will,

“implement the strategy set out on page 44 of the Clean Growth Strategy which is to ‘keep step with equivalent standards [after exit]’”—

but then, “wherever possible and appropriate”. My reading of those words leads me to believe that the Secretary of State may not decide that keeping a level playing field or keeping the standards at a specific level is possible or appropriate, so those standards could dip. A bit of clarification from the Minister would be very helpful.

As has been touched on, the instrument also creates a stand-alone UK regime for third-party product verification, to be established in further detail in later SIs. Can the Minister assure us that these SIs will deal with that under the “made affirmative” procedure rather than the negative one? The text of the instrument is far longer than most, running to more than 80 pages; the five quite distinct schedules and areas contained in it could and should have been separated into separate SIs.

The Government have also chosen not to produce an impact assessment since, as they say, there will be “no imminent change”. Can the Minister clarify what this means? Are we talking about a week, a month or a year? As has been mentioned, there are financial, operational, organisational and oversight issues involved in setting up new bodies.

On page 7, paragraph (7) of proposed new Regulation 2A states:

“Where the Secretary of State removes the reference to a standard from publication, that standard is no longer a designated standard”.


Does this mean that the standard no longer exists in that area? If so, does that raise any implications or concerns?

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked how other bodies would be constituted and what consideration was given to them. I look forward to the Minister’s response to that. On page 11, paragraph (4)(a) of proposed new Regulation 22 says that the Secretary of State must,

“consider the life cycle of the product and all its significant environmental aspects, including its energy efficiency, and the feasibility of their improvement”,

and paragraph (4)(f) says that they must,

“consult on the draft implementing measure”.

I seek clarification from the Minister on which bodies and organisations would be consulted on the draft measures. This would be helpful for the future.