Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill

Debate between Lord Wigley and Lord Redwood

Report stage
Wednesday 8th July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Redwood (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Fox, for reminding us of the importance of contingent liabilities and the need for the Government to complete due diligence before any acquisition. He rightly says that in a hypothetical case—not British Steel Scunthorpe—it might be necessary to move quickly, and then there will have to be some trade-offs. But if we are talking about British Steel Scunthorpe, there is obviously no need to move quickly. The Government moved very quickly many months ago, and there can still be proper analysis. I would hope, indeed, that as Ministers and their chosen executives are now responsible for British Steel, while they do not own the assets, they would have done a lot of this very important preparatory work on discovering the contingent liabilities.

Where in Amendment 11, the contingent liabilities are mentioned by category, there is an omission which could be extremely important: liabilities to employees for past problems with safety and health, and—God forbid that this does not happen—for any liabilities that might follow now that the business is under the operation or control of Ministers and their chosen executives, if some safety or other health problem arose. Where people are running these very large, industrial businesses, with the obvious threats of a very powerful fire in the furnace and the dangers of extremely hot liquid steel being moved around, it is crucial that Ministers and their chosen executives have taken all the right decisions on making sure people have the right protective clothing, there are the right protocols, and there is an absolute segregation for the employees from the risks. There also needs to be an understanding of whether there have been any longer-term health risks from the atmosphere around the blast furnace or the intense heat of some working conditions.

If Ministers have not already done so, they need to take this very seriously. Whenever I was responsible for a big plant, my main nightmare was that something would go wrong on safety, and that would be unforgivable. I am not expecting the Government to give ground on these amendments, but it would reassure the House and the wider public if the Minister could tell us more about where they have got to, at least in general terms, with exposing the contingent liabilities on pensions, safety and employee health, as well as with the other financial matters mentioned clearly in these amendments.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I am delighted to support the amendment put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and I agree with his earlier analysis. As it happens, I agree with a lot of what the noble Lord, Lord Redwood, said on this as well. Whereas there may be certain safeguards in Scunthorpe, there is considerable worry in somewhere like Port Talbot arising from some of the experiences we have had, which I referred to in Committee. I hope the Minister will be able to give some assurances on this.

Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill

Debate between Lord Wigley and Lord Redwood

Committee stage
Wednesday 1st July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Redwood (Con)]

My Lords, these are indeed important amendments. It is a tragedy what has been happening to our steel industry in this country. It suffered considerable decline under the last Government thanks to very high energy prices and decarbonisation, which turned out to be disruptive. In the last full year of the Conservatives, we were down to 5.6 million tonnes of manufactured steel—around half our requirement.

There has now been a further very big collapse, such that our output last year was, I think, around half of that in 2023—around 2.5 million tonnes—and we are heading for an even smaller output this year unless the business plan is provided, kicks in and starts to do something to help the ailing Scunthorpe business that we are talking about. I think we are united in our belief that this is not what we want from our steel industry. It means that we have a chronic dependence—in the last year, 7.1 million tonnes—on imported steel and we are heading to a position where we import practically all our steel. I fear we will discover that, unless we do something about electricity prices, even when electric arc production starts to kick in on a bit of a bigger scale, it will be very difficult to sell that steel at a profit because the electricity costs are unrealistic and uncompetitive, as well as the general carbon taxes and carbon costs, which have been adversely affecting the blast furnaces.

Given our common interest in saving jobs and having a better steel sector, I again urge the Government to provide that plan and that thought-through work, which should be shared without commercial secrets with the wider public and both Houses of Parliament. This would give us some confidence that there is a way out of this very deep tunnel that we are going down to producing less and less steel of our own.

The Government have clearly introduced very penal tariffs on importing steel from non-EU sources, with the 50% increase in tariff. They hope that that will change the situation but, because they have relaxed the quotas for the EU, I suspect that we are still extremely vulnerable to EU import competition at a time when our industry is not properly competitive. They will find that the tariffs will not protect the diminishing British steel industry, but that the much bigger and somewhat stronger steel-using industries in the United Kingdom will be very gravely affected, because more than half our imported steel may well have to come from sources that attract tariffs. That will be very penal and, therefore, will reduce the amount of steel-using activity that we can undertake.

I urge the Government to take some of these points seriously. I am glad that two sensible amendments have been put forward to concentrate this debate.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I am glad to have the opportunity to support Amendment 23, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, concerning a jobs and industrial transition strategy, which is very much in in line with the comments I made in our previous debate. The question of protecting skilled employment, in particular, and the need to reskill and deliver the tangible economic renewal, support and resilience in the local communities is very close to my heart. It is also very close to the minds of those in places such as Port Talbot who have faced insecurity in these matters. I hope that the Government, if they are not able to accept this amendment, will at least underline their agreement with its approach. I would be very surprised if it was not the Government’s approach, in fact.

When it comes to Amendment 21—I address this to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, who moved the amendment —if a duty is placed to find a private sector purchaser as soon as possible then surely that has to be constrained very much more than in the amendment. What would the situation be if an overseas company in the private sector was to make a bid? As I see it, the whole logic behind the nationalisation that we have here is to defend the United Kingdom’s strategic interests as well as its economic interests. If an important part of the steel industry was to fall into overseas hands—perhaps a perfectly reputable company but an overseas company outside the control of anybody within the United Kingdom—would that not raise serious questions? These are issues that I put to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, rather than to the Minister. I regard them as a serious weakening of the Bill’s strategic objectives, which I generally support.

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[Lord Redwood (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the intent behind Amendment 22. We should not be careless about the interests of the steel-using industries. Many years ago, I was responsible for Darlington & Simpson Rolling Mills. In those days, that was a profitable and successful business, but the price of raw material was critical to that type of operation. I was very interested to learn from noble Lord, Lord Fox, that he thinks that there are 10 times as many people involved; that may well be an underestimate. When I was trying to do some research on this, I identified a number of sectors where steel use is an important part of cost, and I came up with about £200 billion of business activity in those areas, excluding construction, which is obviously the main steel user in the country. That was many times the amount of turnover we are talking about in trying to protect maybe 2 million tonnes of steel production in this country from our own resources. Both in setting the tariffs and in setting the plans, and in the details of any future nationalisation, we need to have fuller recognition than we have had so far of the legitimate interests and concerns of the steel-using industries.

I hope that Ministers will see that we are also interested in a report and audit on where we are at already. Although we have not nationalised British Steel and do not own the assets, we are otherwise completely responsible for the people who do those jobs and their families, for the safety and success of the production processes of those two ageing blast furnaces, and for that part of what remains of the British steel industry, so I think we are probably owed a bit more consultation and plan already.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I am delighted to support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and to be following the noble Lord, Lord Redwood. I am sorry the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is not in his place at the moment, but both he and the noble Lord, Lord Redwood, will be very familiar with a project that took place in north-west Wales 40 to 50 years ago now—the construction of the pumped-storage scheme at Llanberis by the CEGB. The reason that is relevant is that, in the very early days of that project, the CEGB was wise enough to pull together trade union leadership and the local authorities in a regular meeting to review issues that were arising. Over the 10-year period of the construction of that exciting project, only about a week was lost due to industrial difficulties. The company, the CEGB, was working with the workforce and the local community, and problems were sorted before they boiled up to triggering strikes and all the rest. It is motivated self-interest to have such an approach to bring in these forces: with good leadership coming from the company involved and, yes, from central government but also from local government and from the trade unions within the company involved, so many problems can be overcome before they cause difficulties and boil up to something that they do not need to be. I believe such an approach should appeal to the Government, and I am very glad to support the amendment.

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[Lord Redwood (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, has raised this; it was also something that I mentioned in our previous debates. In my experience of old industrial sites, the land under and around the plant is often heavily polluted and may contain toxic substances. Clearly, the Government need a report on that and would need to consider it not only when considering any possible compensation to a previous owner but as part of the costings of the whole project. Sooner or later, that land will have to be cleaned and if there is any current risk to water courses, it might be sooner rather than later that action would need to be taken. I trust that will all be properly investigated and has been properly investigated where we have already taken operational and financial responsibility for the plant in the case of Scunthorpe.

On other liabilities which can occur in these situations, which probably should be mentioned for the sake of completeness, it is a good idea to find out about current and retired staff to see whether any long-term health issues have arisen which can be attributed in any way to the processes they have been handling and the working conditions they have been in. Those, too, need sensitive treatment and can, if something has gone wrong, amount to significant sums of money.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I want to speak briefly to Amendment 28, which deals with pension liabilities of the undertaking that has gone into state ownership. Some noble Lords will remember in our pensions Bill debates that we had the example of Allied Steel and Wire, where employees, who had been given all sorts of promises that they would be safeguarded, feel that they have been very badly let down. If the shadow of Allied Steel and Wire is to find its way to Scunthorpe, or any of the other locations where these questions may arise, the failure to safeguard the interests of those pensioners will militate against employees wanting to accept the course being taken by the Government unless provisions are written into the Bill of the sort provided by Amendment 28. There may be other ways of doing it, but certainly these assurances need to be given.