Live Debate: Commons Chamber

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This summer we all felt the impact of climate change, whether in our homes, workplaces or in our schools. The Warm Homes Plan will ensure that cooling, as well as heating measures, are available for the most vulnerable homes. And additionally, in England and Wales, all eligible households can benefit from the expanded Boiler Upgrade Scheme, which now includes air to air heat pumps, which are able to heat and cool homes.

11:48

Olly Glover MP (Didcot and Wantage, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government's commitment to improving the energy efficiency of our homes is welcome and is a stark contrast to the Conservatives apparent embrace of a Fred Flintstone home standard. This year saw the hottest summer on record, and climate change science indicates these temperatures are going to become the norm. So can the Minister assure the House that the standards that he that he mentions will take full account of those trends and the need to efficiently call our buildings?

11:49

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can give him that assurance, and he will also know that we are currently reviewing part O of the building Regulations on overheating in order to ensure that buildings in the future are well prepared for the temperatures that we may face and be able to adapt to climate change.

11:49

Alistair Strathern MP (Hitchin, Labour)

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Alistair Strathern thank you, Mr. Speaker. here and now. It's vital we support households to adapt to this new reality. As well as tackling the effects of climate change at source, the inclusion of air to air heat pumps, which provide clean cooling as well as heating tech, is very welcome. But despite this announcement, the the delay so far in accreditation mean that uptake has been incredibly slow. I convened over 50 MPs over summer to push the accreditors to get a move on and ensure more homes can benefit from this.

However, Ministers holding these accreditation agencies to account for more households in my constituency can benefit from this cooling tech. cooling tech.

11:49

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to praise my hon. Friend for the work that he has been doing and working collaboratively with us to put some gentle pressure on the accreditation bodies to ensure that we see progress in this. I will be meeting with the relevant bodies soon, and we hope to be able to unlock this at pace.

11:50

Pippa Heylings MP (South Cambridgeshire, Liberal Democrat)

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Pippa Heylings Liberal Democrat spokesperson. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The new norms of extreme weather that we're seeing now caused by climate change mean that, as my hon. Friend has said, we've got to think about not only warming our homes, but cooling them. And thousands of families are dipping into hard earned savings to install heat pumps and to cut emissions. In my constituency of South Cambridgeshire, we are 25th in the country for heat pump uptake and I'm really proud of that. And that's as a result of heat pump subsidies, which is why I'm really worried, Mr.

Speaker, that we've heard rumours that the government is considering deep cuts to the Warm Homes Plan. So would the Secretary of State agree with me that failing to electrify at scale keeps us needlessly change to overseas gas and volatile petrostates, and to rob energy security to fund defence is a fool's errand. Yeah.

11:51

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the hon. Lady for her question. We the hon. Lady for her question. We fully support the Warm Homes Plan and the Boiler Upgrade Scheme. We have had a record breaking year this year on the Boiler Upgrade Scheme over 8000 applications in July, which is more than double what we saw in the previous year, not least because of those homes that were off grid deciding to adopt a heat pump. I'm sure many of them are in her constituency, and we continue to support the Boiler Upgrade Scheme, and I am sure we will see continued uptake of it over the coming months.

11:51

Q4. What recent progress she has made on improving the UK's resilience to the impacts of climate change. (901412)

Tom Rutland question number four, Mr. Speaker. will answer question number four and ten. Together. My colleagues raised an excellent point. In June

11:51

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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of this year, I, alongside the Cabinet Office, launched a Climate and Nature Security Task Force to and Nature Security Task Force to assess our resilience, the first meeting of which will take place next week with external experts to next week with external experts to challenge our preparedness. Sadly, this task force became even more this task force became even more relevant after the extremes of this summer and allowed us to feel what scientists have been telling us for

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many years. The Prime Minister has also confirmed that he will host a wildfire summit this month. Bob Blackman thank.

11:52

Tom Rutland MP (East Worthing and Shoreham, Labour)

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You, Mr. Speaker. Over the summer, my constituents in East Worthing and Shoreham, like many across the country, endured unrelenting and scorching heat for many years. We focussed on cold homes in winter and now we need to turn our attention to hot homes in the summer. And it was good to hear in an earlier answer, some of what the government has been doing. What steps is the Department taking to help people adapt homes and public buildings to our increasingly hot summers?

11:52

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank my hon. Friend for raising thank my hon. Friend for raising this. We are indeed living through the extremes of climate change and feeling it so intensely this summer. feeling it so intensely this summer. It should encourage us all to accelerate our efforts to mitigate, but also to expand those opportunities to adapt the Boiler Upgrade Scheme, as my hon. Friend has already allowed for air to air heat pumps, which are both able to heat and cool our homes at the same time.

But we want to go further, and that's why the Warm Homes Plan set out our intention to introduce passive cooling measures into our capital funded schemes, including solar shading shutters, reflective window cooling coatings and cooler building materials.

11:53

Anna Dixon MP (Shipley, Labour)

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Anna Dixon thank you, Mr. Speaker. As colleagues have said, we endured one of the hottest

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summers on record, with ten days reaching 35 degrees. That's double reaching 35 degrees. That's double the previous record. And together with that, we saw deaths from extreme heat. When we think about insulating homes, we think about keeping ourselves warm. But home insulation is just as critical in protecting against extreme heat. So can the Minister say a little bit more to the House about what steps the government is taking to ensure the government is taking to ensure new homes that we're building are designed to protect people against extreme heat?

11:53

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend for raising this, and she's been a long standing champion on retrofitting. But as one new build this side of the House, we are proud of the future. Building standards, which requires all new homes, must be zero carbon ready to ensure they are adapted to and can mitigate to the impacts of climate change. Within the building regulations, it states. New homes must be designed to reduce overheating risk, prioritising passive measures such as limiting exposure to heat from the sun and openable windows to remove excess heat.

But a full technical review is underway to ensure those regulations remain effective and fit for the future.

11:54

Patrick Spencer MP (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich, Conservative)

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Patrick Spencer Mr Speaker. >> Patrick Spencer Mr Speaker. >> The Eastern Leigh Ingham solar farm application in my constituency has finally been forced to get an environmental impact assessment. Considering the vast size of the proposed development, over 200 acres across fertile farmland, it was a complete waste of time to think that it would ever get through planning without one. So can the Minister make a commitment to consider forcing all solar developments on rural land to get an environmental impact assessment?

11:54

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Colleague for this question. I'm a little unsure how it totally relates, but in terms of, I think we are looking at how to make sure we align the. The. I think I'm speaking from the Dispatch Box, but thank you. In terms of, I think in terms of you were talking about the environmental assessments of the solar farms, we we do obviously want to make sure that our policies are in line with DEFRA policies.

At the same time, we've worked very closely with DEFRA. We continue to do so in terms of the land use framework and make sure that we are delivering on our clean power at the same time as improving our nature restoration at the same time. And it was great over the recess to talk to solar providers who looked at biodiversity increase from solar farms. Sarah Mr.

11:55

Sarah Dyke MP (Glastonbury and Somerton, Liberal Democrat)

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Speaker, British food security >> Speaker, British food security is in real jeopardy. Extreme weather is becoming more severe, more frequent and more unpredictable, and the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit warns that in 2026 could be the worst UK harvest on record. So what discussions has the Minister had with DEFRA colleagues to strengthen British farmers resilience to extreme weather?

11:56

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Yeovil I thank my hon. Friend >> Yeovil I thank my hon. Friend for her very important question. It's one of the reasons why we launched the Climate and Nature Security Task Force before this summer. As I said in my previous answer, sadly, it's become even more relevant after the summer. The impacts that we have had been having on farming and on food security. We're working hand in glove with DEFRA to make sure that these things are considered at the same time, and those cascading climate and nature impacts on food security will be considered.

That will be a core part of our Climate and nature Security Task force.

11:56

Q5. What discussions she has had with the Scottish Borders Council on the Cross Border Connection. (901413)

John Lamont thank. Speaker. National Grid Electricity Transmission has.

11:56

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Concluded its first consultation on the English section of the Cross Border Connection, with further consultation expected next year. The Scottish section is being developed by SP Energy Networks with consenting decisions on that portion. The responsibility of Scottish Ministers is for the developers to progress their proposals and seek the necessary consents.

11:57

John Lamont MP (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Conservative)

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John Lamont Mr. Speaker, the mega pylons comprising the Cross Border Connection will have a major impact on residents in the Scottish Borders and we now have data centres, wind farms, solar farms, substations and battery storage plants which will follow in the wake of the pylons. But local councillors and local residents feel powerless to influence these developments. So will the Minister agree to meet me and local Scottish Borders councillors to discuss their concerns? And will the government support my Electricity and Digital Infrastructure Infrastructure Planning Bill, which will provide certainty to local communities and the Council as to how these developments should be considered?

11:57

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, I have met in the past and I'm very happy to meet again the hon. Gentleman to discuss these issues, but I would just reiterate issues, but I would just reiterate the point that the decisions on those applications are not for me. They're for the Scottish Government, as all planning matters are in Scotland. He can shake his head, but it nevertheless is true. It is important that we bring communities with us on this. That is critical in the planning process. It is also why we announced that communities that host this infrastructure right across the UK should benefit from bill discounts directly, but also community benefits in communities like his Julie Minns.

proposed. Connection. Connection.

11:58

Ms Julie Minns MP (Carlisle, Labour)

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Will cut a swathe across the North Cumbria section of my Carlisle constituency and pass through or close to four sites of Special Scientific Interest. I recognise the importance of the project. However, will the Minister please urge National Grid to maximise undergrounding on this section of the project?

11:58

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, as I. projects to go through the planning process and to develop their projects, but we do as a government, as the previous government in fact had exactly the same position, have a preference for pylons rather than undergrounding, not least because there are 4 or 5 times more expensive than its consumers across the country that pay that additional cost. We are very clear that building the grid is absolutely critical for how we get clean, cheaper power to people's homes and businesses.

It is the job the previous government never did, and that upgrade is now absolutely critical.

11:59

Blair McDougall MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Business, Innovation, Science and Trade) (Jointly with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Renfrewshire, Labour)

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Patrick Hurley thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. >> Question number six. >> Please, Minister. >> Mr. speaker, we recognise that energy costs remain a challenge for businesses across the country. Our British Industrial Competitiveness Scheme, which is now open, will support over 10,000 businesses cutting electricity costs by up to £40 per megawatt hour. Alongside the British industry, superchargers enhanced support for our most electricity intensive firms. We know that this is not enough and we are working across both of my departments to explore further options.

11:59

Patrick Hurley MP (Southport, Labour)

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Patrick Hurley thank.

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I've recently been. Investigating the. Extraordinary regional. Differences between different

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Differences between different parts of the country when it comes to domestic electricity standing charges, but I am increasingly charges, but I am increasingly concerned that the same underlying network charging system may also be imposing substantially higher fixed costs on businesses in Merseyside and North Wales. So will the and North Wales. So will the Minister ask Ofgem to investigate the impact of regional network charging on business competitiveness, as well as household bills?

12:00

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Well, Mr. Speaker, as ever, he is a champion for business and industry in Southport. The short answer is yes. I will be writing to Ofgem about this matter and will share the response with the hon. Member. In the meantime, I reassure him that Ofgem's cost Allocation and recovery review is considering how costs should be recovered from consumers, which includes costs.

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Kim Leadbeater thank. >> Kim Leadbeater thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. In terms of business costs, I agree entirely with the comments made already, but the. It also applies across the public sector. Local authorities,

12:00

Graham Leadbitter MP (Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey, Scottish National Party)

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NHS trusts and boards all pay substantial amounts for their energy, particularly organisations like leisure trusts who have like leisure trusts who have swimming pools and and ice rinks and provide a great deal of community wellbeing. Will the Minister commit to addressing those issues in. At the same time for public authorities? As for businesses? Well, he makes a. One

12:01

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businesses? Well, he makes a. One of the many really good arguments for acting at pace to get towards a cleaner energy, not just is it good for business, not just is it good for household consumers, but as he says, it saves a considerable amount of money for the public sector too, which is exactly why we are investing in, for example, rooftop solar across the public sector. And we will certainly work with the Scottish Government on that. As Secretary of State.

12:01

Andrew Bowie MP (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, Conservative)

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Andrew Murrison thank you very >> Andrew Murrison thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. speaker, businesses are being crushed by the weight of energy costs in this country and is leading to the deindustrialisation of Great Britain. From the ceramics industry in Stoke to the chemicals industry in Grangemouth. Labour's policies are making Britain poorer, more vulnerable and leading to thousands of job losses. Does the Minister think that? That is why Gary Smith of the GMB has described government energy policy is, and I quote batshit and.

And the department as the Department for P45S yes.

12:02

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Well, Mr. Speaker, as has >> Well, Mr. Speaker, as has happened so often at the despatch box, we find ourselves rising to answer questions from the frontbench about why we have not been quick enough at fixing the mess that they left us. By all means, criticise the speed and the scale of ambition that we have. We are certainly a ambitious for going quicker down that. But when his proposal is to return and to regress to the very policy of reliance on fossil fuels that got us into this mess in the first time, it just does not bear any scrutiny.

Chris Webb.

12:02

Q8. What recent progress she has made on the implementation of the Warm Homes Plan. (901418)

Minister. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Warm Homes Plan is already delivering in communities across our country. And last month, the Secretary of State announced the devolution of the Warm Homes Plan, giving power to local leaders and communities to make decisions about the areas that make decisions about the areas that they know best is essential to upgrading homes at the scale and pace that we need, and it is key to pace that we need, and it is key to bringing down bills, reducing fuel poverty and creating skilled jobs.

Speaker. Speaker.

12:03

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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In Blackpool, too many families still live in cold and poorly insulated homes and face disproportionately higher energy costs. So could the Minister tell me how the Warm Homes Plan is benefiting households in Blackpool, and what more the government is doing to secure, for my constituents cheaper energy bills constituents cheaper energy bills to support that they're entitled to and how they can access it?

12:03

Chris Webb MP (Blackpool South, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want

12:03

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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to start just by paying tribute to my hon. Friend for all the work he is doing to champion his is doing to champion his constituents in Blackpool South, around 600 households in his constituency received home upgrades constituency received home upgrades under government schemes in 2020 526. I encourage any of his constituents who want advice on how constituents who want advice on how to upgrade their homes now to go on to gov.uk and search for energy grants, and they'll be able to find grants, and they'll be able to find information there, and will also soon be launching a new tool to make it even easier for people to find support.

12:04

Claire Young MP (Thornbury and Yate, Liberal Democrat)

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Claire Young thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of my constituents in Thornbury and Yate are off gas and Thornbury and Yate are off gas and rely on heating oil, and they are once again rising to be about rising costs with no price cap to protect them. The best way to cut their bills is to move to low carbon forms of heating. So can the Minister confirm that the uplift in grant for off grid properties will not be a victim of Budget cuts? Yeah.

12:04

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've guaranteed that the grant will be guaranteed that the grant will be there until March of next year. And obviously, decisions for the future of that scheme and that uplift will be ones for the Chancellor to take later in the Budget. What I would say about that uplift is that it has seen a significant increase in the number of heat pump applications and applications through the Boiler Upgrade Scheme over 8000 in July alone. So we can see the success that it's having and the support that it's providing to off grid homes.

12:05

Dr Luke Evans MP (Hinckley and Bosworth, Conservative)

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The Minister, Doctor Luke Evans. January this year, the former energy secretary stood at the despatch box and with great fanfare announced 15 billion for the Warm Homes Plan. So I have a very simple question to the side opposite. Can the Minister confirm today and guarantee that every penny of that commitment remains intact, yes or no? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

12:05

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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I'd like to welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place and to his new position. He wouldn't expect me to stand here and make commitments that will be made by the Chancellor that will be made by the Chancellor in the Budget, and obviously they will be made at the end of this month. But what I would say is this is coming from a party that is trying to make us more dependent on fossil fuels, that is trying to turn back the clock on the future Homes standard, which would leave people across the country tens of thousands of pounds worse off.

12:05

Q9. What assessment she has made of the potential impact of approval of the Rosebank oil and gas field on the UK's ability to meet its climate change targets. (901419)

Fleur Anderson question number nine. Please, Mr. Speaker. >> Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given our regulatory process is under way, I cannot comment on particular projects. However, we have been very clear that any consenting decisions for new oil and gas must be compatible with our climate be compatible with our climate obligations, and we set that out at every stage of the process. Since we inherited the court judgements on the previous government's on the previous government's handling of those consent decisions.

12:06

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Fleur Anderson thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've had many of my constituents in Putney writing to me about this. They're very concerned about the Rosebank

12:06

Fleur Anderson MP (Putney, Labour)

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lifetime emissions equivalent being 254,000,000 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent this summer. As has been equivalent this summer. As has been mentioned by many colleagues, we've seen extreme weather. London Ambulance Service say they had more call outs this summer because of call outs this summer because of the heatwave than they did during Covid. So with this background, does the Minister can the Minister does the Minister can the Minister tell me whether approving Rosebank is compatible with the UK climate targets and obligations under the

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targets and obligations under the Paris Agreement? Yeah. Well, firstly, Mr. Speaker, let me just reiterate that I can't comment on particular projects that are currently being considered for decisions. But on the more general

12:06

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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point that she rightly raises, it is absolutely imperative that we look at the impact that climate change is having. We have all lived change is having. We have all lived through the summer that we have just had and seen the evidence of that. Up close. It is important that any decisions we make are compatible with our climate obligations. And even as the opposition has now accepted that, opposition has now accepted that, it is worth remembering that any new projects in the North Sea will not take a penny off bills.

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not take a penny off bills. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Producing our own oil and gas means we will import less dirtier hydrocarbons. So it's common sense that we use our own resources. Yes, but while Labour dither on a proven Rosebank and jackdaw, thousands of my constituents in Aberdeen South my constituents in Aberdeen South are losing their jobs. So will the Minister set out a timetable for deciding if Rosebank and jackdaw deciding if Rosebank and jackdaw can proceed? Well.

12:07

Douglas Lumsden MP (Aberdeen South, Conservative)

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As I've said in a number of occasions, we are considering the

12:07

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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evidence that has been submitted on these particular projects. We have had to pick up a process that was left behind by the previous left behind by the previous government, and we have done that as quickly as possible. We will make decisions in due course, but I make decisions in due course, but I would just make this point, he says, about common sense. There are thousands of his constituents who are also reliant on jobs in are also reliant on jobs in renewables and carbon capture and in hydrogen, and he stands here time after time and opposes the time after time and opposes the investment in that.

If he is in favour of jobs in his constituency, them.

12:08

Mr Speaker

I know he is a new member, but behaviour counts on him as well as everybody else. Bill Esterson chair of the Select Committee.

12:08

Bill Esterson MP (Sefton Central, Labour)

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Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In Canada, Prime Minister Carney has taken a more pragmatic approach to the energy transition than his predecessor, notably by designating the West Coast oil pipeline as a project of national interest in this country. The Prime Minister says that drilling in the North Sea is something he is pragmatic about. So can the Minister tell us how, whether he agrees with continued drilling in the North Sea, but also in return, whether he sees a similar approach to that taken in Canada being applied in securing agreement for emission reductions in return for such drilling.

12:09

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, it's always useful to hear >> Well, it's always useful to hear from from the chair of the Select Committee, and I will look into the example that he gives. But I will just say on the on the issue of pragmatism, we have been very clear that we want to see a pragmatic future for the North Sea. That does mean continued oil and gas for many, many decades, but it also means investing in what comes next in the North Sea so that there is a fair and prosperous transition.

The North Sea remains an absolutely vital asset for the country, supporting jobs, supporting growth and supporting our energy security. We are determined to make sure that there is a strong pathway for the communities and for jobs. Oil and gas will be important, but it is also critical that we build up the other industries that come next.

12:09

Dr Ellie Chowns MP (North Herefordshire, Green Party)

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Doctor Ellie Chowns. has said that to have any shot at meeting our climate change targets, and I quote, we can't have any new oil and gas. She's also said that new fossil fuel development is, and I quote, irresponsible and short sighted. There is nothing pragmatic about pouring more fuel on the fire of the climate crisis. So I'd like to know, does the Secretary of State still agree with herself? And if so, why will the government not rule out Rosebank and jackdaw?

12:10

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well. >> Well. >> I think first of all, I would say it is pragmatic to say that oil and gas will continue to be a critical part of our energy mix for decades to come, and the North Sea remains an important part of that. We are not about switching off the taps in the North Sea, and we said that in our manifesto, and we will deliver on that. But we are about building clean energy in the future. I would just say to the Green Party who come here and pontificate about a lot of these issues, but then oppose the very infrastructure that would actually get us off fossil ways.

12:11

Harriet Cross MP (Gordon and Buchan, Conservative)

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Harriet Cross Shadow Minister. in a global energy crisis. Oil shipments remain stuck. A fifth of global LNG supplies have been disrupted by the war in Iran and across Europe. Gas reserves are at record lows heading into winter. But good news, Mr. Speaker. Jackdaw and Rosebank could be producing oil and gas this winter. The bad news is that we have a government either too scared of their green lobby or too naive to the supply risks we face to act. So now that the Holborn and St Pancras by election is over, and before we get too close to cop, when is the government finally going to take our energy security seriously and permit jackdaw and Rosebank?

12:11

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, firstly, Mr. Speaker, and I welcome the hon. Lady to her new role as Shadow Secretary of State role as Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland, as well as clearly staying in the energy brief as well, and congratulate her on that. She she actually very eloquently outlines in her question exactly the problem at the heart of the Conservative Party's policy. On this. She says very clearly that the issues in the Middle East leave us exposed to an energy crisis. But the very plan that that party has, Mr.

Speaker, is to increase that exposure, to have even more gas in our energy mix. It is simply not credible. And their own plan has already been ridiculed for the fact that the figures were wrong when they published it, and were based on a gas price that isn't based in reality. Given everything that's going on in the Middle East, we will make pragmatic decisions on the future of the North Sea, but we will also be all about our energy security long into the future, when they remain stuck to the very exposure that is driving up everyone's bills.

12:12

Q11. What assessment she has made of the potential impact of constructing energy infrastructure on peatland on the climate. (901421)

Josh Fenton-Glynn number 11. Please, Mr. Speaker.

12:12

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And can I pay tribute to my hon. Friend who has been a champion for for Yorkshire and for both the issues on climate change mitigation and adaptation. We recognise our peatlands are vital habitats for biodiversity, storing carbon and water, and we have strong protections in national planning policy which guide developers to avoid peatland and, where not possible, to mitigate. We are working with Defra to strengthen and collaborate on both climate and nature policies.

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Josh Fenton-Glynn MP (Calder Valley, Labour)

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Josh Fenton-Glynn thank you, Mr. Speaker. We can't strengthen one part of our climate response by part of our climate response by weakening another. Peatland stores 50% of the country's soil carbon. That's 3 billion tonnes of the That's 3 billion tonnes of the stuff. It's the equivalent of all the carbon stored by forests in the UK, Germany and France combined, building on peatland releases. That carbon, which is why there are rules against it. If you're doing it for development or farming. Would the Minister please look at bringing some consistency in cases where it's something like a wind farm or another energy project? On, on, on, on that peatland so that there's consistency across the board.

12:13

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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And my hon. Friend is right to highlight the hugely valuable role of peat in storing carbon, water of peat in storing carbon, water and biodiversity. And it's why this government announced £47 million to restore our peatlands in June. As I said, there is national policy guidance, but we are working with Defra and Natural England to improve that interaction and will follow up with the Department to ensure we are reviewing policy options to deliver clean energy in tandem with protecting our natural environment, and I'm very happy to keep him in the loop on.

12:14

Rt Hon Sir Roger Gale MP (Herne Bay and Sandwich, Conservative)

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This, sir. >> Roger Gale yeah. >> Mr. Speaker, we don't have an abundance of peatland in East Kent, but we do have acres of wonderful marshland and sites of scientific interest on that land.

12:14

Mr Speaker

And he's shaking his head very badly at me. Sir Roger, one of us, badly at me. Sir Roger, one of us, please. Just it might be helpful. There is some peatlands in Kent. So there is a link to the question, so I don't need any help. You shake your head so violently won't change sir Roger's question, sir. Roger.

12:14

Rt Hon Sir Roger Gale MP (Herne Bay and Sandwich, Conservative)

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Yeah. don't we don't have acres. Of strength, but we do have acres of wonderful marshland and sites of scientific interest on that marshland. National grid is proposing to build a 90 foot high converter station the size of five football pitches, floated on two metres deep of concrete. The Secretary of State is due to determine the planning application in short order. When the Secretary of State takes that decision, could I ask for an assurance that she will take into account the irreparable environmental damage that this ill conceived project will do to the environment?

12:15

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Is going to be pushed off the people? people? >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the clarification, and I thank my hon. Member for all of his for his question. Everything we do has an environmental impact, but clearly we want to make sure we minimise the environmental impact of any infrastructure that we build. I cannot comment on any individual planning applications, as he will well know, but I do take his wider point that we will look to minimise, at all places the environmental impacts of any of our clean energy infrastructure.

12:16

Q12. Whether her Department is taking steps to implement a cold homes plan. (901423)

Sonia Kumar question. >> Minister. >> We all felt the impacts of

12:16

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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climate change this summer, whether it was in our schools, our homes or it was in our schools, our homes or in classrooms, the Warm Homes Plan and the measures within it to ensure cooling as well as heating measures, are available for the measures, are available for the most vulnerable homes in England and Wales. All eligible households can benefit from the expanded boiler upgrade scheme, which now includes air to air heat pumps, which are able to heat and cool our homes.

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homes. Sonia Kumar thank you, Mr. Speaker. This summer, extreme heat was responsible for. Thousands of excess deaths

12:16

Sonia Kumar MP (Dudley, Labour)

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across the United Kingdom. Well, I commend the department's mission to tackle climate change and the root causes of extreme heat. But. But does the Minister recognise that we must go faster and further in adapting and supporting households, adapting and supporting households, especially vulnerable households, from extreme heat? And does she recognise that we need a comb recognise that we need a comb clawed homes plan for across the country?

12:17

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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country? >> I thank my hon. Friend for her excellent question. Look, as we've mentioned a few times today, the Warm Homes Plan also has already announced the intention to introduce some passive cooling measures, whether that's shading shutters, reflective windows or cooler building materials and the delivery plan of the Warm Homes Plan that's been devolved to to mayors and local government and communities, presents a real opportunity to shape that in the most locally appropriate ways. But of course, we want to go faster.

And I would to make sure that new homes are built to resilient standards. That's why we're committed as well to the net zero standards. And we're reviewing the overheating building regulations to ensure our homes are fit for the future. I would like to make sure that we build together heating and cooling options. So we're thinking about the integration of both climate mitigation and adaptation at the same time.

12:18

Tim Farron MP (Westmorland and Lonsdale, Liberal Democrat)

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Tim Farron Mr Speaker. >> The properties. >> In my constituency were built before 1900. They are very. >> Hard to retrofit.

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They are solid wall properties. And it's. Therefore very important that there should be a bespoke scheme to ensure that homes, particularly ensure that homes, particularly rural communities like mine that are so hard to retrofit, are able to be made cooler or warmer in

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to be made cooler or warmer in these more extreme temperature times. I thank the hon. Member for that

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I thank the hon. Member for that question. He's absolutely right that some of our properties are more challenging to retrofit. It's why we are working with many

12:18

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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why we are working with many heritage organisations to see about the best way to do that, and we are learning at all times to make sure that that mitigation and adaptation at the same time, and I'm very happy to keep him in the loop on progress on that.

12:18

Q13. What recent progress she has made on reforming electricity grid connections. (901424)

Darren Paffey question. >> Darren Paffey question. >> 13 please, Mr. Speaker. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. Our electricity

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Mr. Speaker. Our electricity grid is one of the most important pieces of infrastructure in the country, but it was allowed to get into a complete mess by

12:18

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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underinvestment and a failure to tackle the grid connection, which got to over 700GW under the got to over 700GW under the previous government. We have grappled with that legacy head on, reducing the queue by 300GW and reducing the queue by 300GW and ensuring that accurate connection offers are issued. We have made progress on this, but there is much more to do to ensure that the grid works for the people of this country, and that is why we are injecting public control back into

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injecting public control back into the system by launching Great British Grid. Darren Paffey thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for

12:19

Darren Paffey MP (Southampton Itchen, Labour)

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his answer. Southampton's port electrification and decarbonisation projects are ready to go, but we still can't get the national grid upgrades that we need for at least another decade. The Prime Minister himself has said that this drives himself has said that this drives costs up, it drags growth down and it holds Britain back. So I really welcome the announcements around welcome the announcements around Great British Grid. Will the Minister say, when GB grid will be able to start filling those gaps able to start filling those gaps that exist at the moment? And will you meet with me in Southampton's businesses so that we can find a way forward and get good green growth in Southampton's postcodes?

12:20

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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I thank my hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight the absolutely right to highlight the point that the Prime Minister made about how critical fixing the fundamental problems with connecting to the grid is. That is connecting to the grid is. That is why we have announced we have set up Great British Grid as part of of Great British Energy. We have made substantial progress on reforming the queue, but we do have to build the grid after decades of underinvestment. And I am very happy to meet my hon.

Friend to discuss this issue, and I am fairly confident that we can make sure that National Grid is part of that conversation as well.

12:20

Helen Morgan MP (North Shropshire, Liberal Democrat)

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Helen Morgan very much, Mr. Speaker. Bute Energy is building a Speaker. Bute Energy is building a big wind farm or is planning to build a big wind farm in mid-Wales, and it's going to connect that wind farm over 47km of pylons, into a substation in North Shropshire that doesn't exist yet. And I found out on Nyssa's website that that substation is likely to be a 20 4x4 hundred kilovolt substation in a place where there are no substantial roads and a very good amount of substantial and useful farmland.

Will the Minister meet with me to discuss the appropriateness of the site? Because I think it could go elsewhere, and I think it would be it would require a shorter run of pylons for Bute Energy, and I think it would. There are more appropriate places to build it than Lower Frankton.

12:21

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, look, I'm very, very happy >> Well, look, I'm very, very happy to meet the hon. Lady, as I always am, to meet members across the House to discuss it. I will just say that it is not for me as a Minister to decide the exact locations of substations, but I am very happy to engage with her and to raise the issue with the relevant transmission owner.

12:21

Topical questions: Energy Security and Net Zero

Come to topical Jerome Mayhew, Windsor, Secretary of State. >> Mr. speaker, we are clear that energy is an everyday essential

12:21

Rt Hon Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Peckham, Labour )

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that everyone should have access to affordable prices. We're also clear that for too many people, energy is that for too many people, energy is simply too expensive. That is why lowering bills for households and businesses is at the very heart of businesses is at the very heart of our agenda. Cutting VAT on electricity bills and removing £150 of costs to give people breathing space whilst we deliver the big changes that will get bills down changes that will get bills down for good, clean Home-grown power to break our dependence on global fossil fuel markets.

We don't control devolving warm homes, so we can upgrade millions of homes to get bills down, and putting the public back in control of an energy system that they lost control over simply will be at the key of how we do this great British energy, giving our communities a stake in the energy we produce. Great British energy, nuclear, putting the public at the very heart of nuclear generation. Great British Grid, accelerating the build out of grid infrastructure and connections. Mr. speaker, we have a plan to get our energy system to work for our community again, and we are absolutely committed at running at that plan.

12:22

Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)

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Fuel prices are through. >> Speaker, because. >> The Prime Minister. >> Says that. >> He gets it. He's tweeted. I won't accept that. There's nothing I can do to help. And he's proved it by pointing to a four court price comparison app. But what he didn't mention, Mr. Speaker, is that his government is adding VAT on top of those price increases. That's a windfall of 2 to £3 billion. So if the Prime Minister gets it, why is he adding 20% to the misery of motorists?

12:23

Ms Polly Billington MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Thanet, Labour)

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He Minister. >> He Minister. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the honourable. Gentleman for his question. In fact, if you'll find question. In fact, if you'll find it is a good way of making sure that people are able to see the transparency that is required in the market for it to really work. The Competition and Markets Authority has found that, fundamentally, the market works competitively. But and therefore, if anybody does find that anything is they see they see anything that's suspected to be price gouging, they should report that exactly to the Competition and Markets Authority.

I would also like to point out that we have frozen fuel duty so that therefore diesel, for example, is £11 cheaper than it would have been under the previous government. So I think it is important to recognise under the previous government before 2024. So I think it is important for the for the members opposite to remember that we are doing what we can in order to be able to bear down on the cost for the motorist, and indeed, to make sure that the market works as transparently as possible.

12:24

Jim Dickson MP (Dartford, Labour)

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Jim Dickson thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Wat Tyler is a Speaker. The Wat Tyler is a historic 15th century pub in Dartford town centre. Recently, Dartford town centre. Recently, Jamal Akass, the owner, contacted me to because he wants to get his energy bills down and to increase the energy efficiency of the building. I wonder if the Minister can help me to help him by outlining what support might be available to Jamal and the Wat Tyler to do just that.

12:24

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me pay tribute to my hon. Friend. He pay tribute to my hon. Friend. He has managed to combine two things that are two of my favourite things in one question energy efficiency and the pub. And I'd encourage the Wat Tyler to access the UK Business Climate Hub, which provides advice to businesses on how to reduce energy costs, and they may also be eligible for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme, which would offer them a grant of up to 7500 pounds to replace their fossil fuel boiler with a heat pump or other clean technology.

12:25

Andrew Bowie MP (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, Conservative)

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We come to Shadow Secretary Andrew Brown. >> Thank you very much. >> Mr. Speaker. I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate and welcome the Secretary of State to her new post. I look forward to working collaboratively with her on issues where we agree. I'm sure we'll find some at some point in the last 20 minutes. Mr. speaker, the Daily Telegraph is reporting that, in an act of extreme irony, the former Secretary of State for energy has signed off on drilling for new oil in the South Atlantic off the Falkland Islands.

Why is drilling for new oil and gas OK in the South Atlantic, but not in the North Sea?

12:25

Rt Hon Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Peckham, Labour )

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Mr. speaker, the Falkland Islands is an independent, self-governing. It's not a matter for us, but. But, Mr. Speaker, let me answer. Let me answer the specific question. We are. And we have been very clear that oil and gas are part of our energy mix for years to come. We we have also been very clear that we will manage existing fields, and that is what we're committed to doing. But I can't reiterate this enough. If we care about getting bills down, if we care about energy security, we must diversify our mix.

And that does mean clean power, and that does mean renewables this side of the House. We are pragmatic because at the very heart of it are consumers that are under pressure that side of the House. One minute they're in support of renewables. I think I have a quote from the hon. Member himself. The next minute they're against it. We have a plan. They have no plan.

12:26

Andrew Bowie MP (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, Conservative)

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Andrew Bowie Mr Speaker oil and gas workers in Scotland will be gas workers in Scotland will be feeling cold fury this afternoon. The Labour Party creating jobs in oil and gas in Port Stanley was killing them in Aberdeen. Now why is the pragmatism, the unusual pragmatism we have seen in evidence from the former Secretary of State for energy apply in the South Atlantic? Why does that same pragmatism not apply to the North Sea oil and gas industry?

12:27

Rt Hon Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Peckham, Labour )

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Mr. speaker, I would ask the hon. Member to show some humility because under his watch, under his watch from 2016 to 2024, 75,000 oil and gas jobs were lost, 75,000 oil and gas jobs were lost because they had no plan. So candidly, Mr. Speaker, I will not take lectures from the party opposite. We are very clear. We are very clear that there will be a plan for oil and gas workers in this country, because we do not do what the Tories do, which is industrial transition that absolutely denudes our communities and cuts them out.

That is not the Labour way. We will have a plan. They have no grounds to stand on.

12:27

Deirdre Costigan MP (Ealing Southall, Labour)

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Deirdre Costigan thank you, Mr. Speaker. Saint Ann School, Grove House Nursery and North Primary School in Ealing Southall are all getting new solar panels because of this government's investment in great British energy. Does the Minister agree with me that the work he is doing to bring down energy bills for schools will allow more money to be spent where it matters? On teaching and learning.

12:28

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, can I congratulate Saint >> Well, can I congratulate Saint Anne's Grove House and. >> North Primary School on solar panels going on the rooftops? I've visited schools that have had solar installed, and it is fantastic to see the young people learning about renewable energy at the same time as bills going down in the school, and more money being invested in front line teaching, which is exactly what we want to see delivered by Great British Energy.

12:28

Joe Robertson MP (Isle of Wight East, Conservative)

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Joe Robertson thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. Families on the Isle of Wight were interested to hear the Prime Minister wanting to do his little bit to help by telling us where we could buy cheaper fuel at the forecourt via a fuel finder app. Our interest waned somewhat when we discovered the cheaper fuel was available in Portsmouth, involving a two hour round trip on a ferry. Does the Minister accept that this is a city focussed Prime Minister leading a cities focussed government that doesn't understand the realities of life in rural and coastal communities, including when facing high energy costs?

12:29

Ms Polly Billington MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Thanet, Labour)

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Yes. >> I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and as a as a fellow coastal MP, I would absolutely rebut his idea that this is a government that doesn't understand coastal or rural communities. Indeed not. I accept the the challenges around the fuel finder that he found on in terms of the Isle of Wight. And we do need to make sure that that full transparency also extends to making sure that there is the cheapest fuel available possible in all communities. I'd like to point out, however, that many of his.

His residents will be benefiting from the announcement that we made today on the regulation of heating oil, because off grid heating oil has currently has up until now not benefited from regulation. And now it will do.

12:29

David Burton-Sampson MP (Southend West and Leigh, Labour)

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David Burton-Sampson thank you, Mr. Speaker. This summer has seen the first hosepipe ban imposed by Essex and Suffolk Water on my Essex and Suffolk Water on my constituency of Southend, western Leigh, since 1997. However, some members on the benches opposite would deny that the results we are seeing are as a result of climate change. So does the Minister agree with me that the weather we saw this summer is evidence enough that the work towards net zero must continue as a priority for this government?

12:30

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Yes. >> Yes. >> I thank my hon. Friend, the science has been very clear for years, but this summer, for the first time, it allowed many people first time, it allowed many people to really feel it in the UK for the first time. He is absolutely correct that net zero remains the goal of this government. I understand that some people want to try and weaponise this, but ultimately, if we want to tackle the climate crisis, then at some point we have to stop the polluting gases into the atmosphere.

If we want to protect the people and the places we love. Speaker.

12:31

Blake Stephenson MP (Mid Bedfordshire, Conservative)

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All of our constituents are paying a high price for energy. It's impacting households, and we It's impacting households, and we all know it's impacting small businesses. And earlier, the Secretary of State said that she would take any action necessary to get bills down. Does that include reducing green taxes and taxes and levies to reduce gas bills?

12:31

Rt Hon Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Peckham, Labour )

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Mr. speaker, we have already >> Mr. speaker, we have already taken action to reduce the cost of bills £150 that was done earlier, but I come back, I come back to the but I come back, I come back to the point we will do whatever we can to give households breathing space as we drive the big change. But part we drive the big change. But part of the big change is diversifying our energy mix. And that does mean more renewables. That means more nuclear so that we are not as exposed as we are to global fossil fuel markets.

His constituents, Mr. Speaker, can see that. They can see what is driving up bills. We have a plan to tackle that. The party opposite doesn't.

12:31

Dame Meg Hillier MP (Hackney South and Shoreditch, Labour )

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Meg Hillier thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. speaker, the government entered government with a target to decarbonise the grid by 2030. The Public Accounts Committee looked at the previous government's plans to do that by 2035, which itself was overoptimistic with the new Secretary of State, and I welcome her to a position, reassure us that she's going into detail into that project. And when will she announce to the House what the real date will be?

12:32

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Look, when we came into government, we set this incredibly ambitious target to decarbonise the power system, which went 90, 95% of power system, which went 90, 95% of our electricity coming from clean sources. And we've done everything possible to move towards that. And we are closer than we've ever been. But it's worth just saying, every single solar farm we switch on and wind farm that we switch on helps us get off gas. And just in the past few months since, what has been happening in the Middle East has taken course, we've been saving £5 million a day in displacing gas from the system because of the Clean Power mission.

So we're making huge progress and we will continue pushing towards it.

12:32

Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)

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Wera Hobhouse thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. Ministers have repeatedly stated their intention to establish local trading to unleash the full potential of community energy, but details have still not been forthcoming. Will the Minister set out a timeline to give community energy projects the clarity they have so long been waiting for?

12:33

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, can I, can I, as I always >> Well, can I, can I, as I always do, recognise the hon. Lady's championing of this sector. We on these benches agree with her about how important this is, and she

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how important this is, and she won't have to wait very long. Jessica Toale thank you. Mr. Speaker. My constituent, Chris Harris, has developed enviro Ship, a battery based solution for transporting excess renewable transporting excess renewable energy via repurposed LNG ship to areas of high usage around the UK. Will the Minister meet with him to discuss the role that this solution can play in meeting our energy demand and net zero goals? demand and net zero goals?

12:33

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I will meet with my hon. Friend who is a brilliant champion and her constituent. constituent.

12:33

Katie White MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Leeds North West, Labour)

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Sir, going back over two David Mundell. Secretary of State assure me that those people who are prevalent in my constituency, who are off grid, are at the heart of the government's thinking in terms of energy support? And whilst I

12:34

Rt Hon David Mundell MP (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, Conservative)

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welcome regulation in relation to heating oil, which has spiralled in heating oil, which has spiralled in price, those it is not clear that that regulation alone will bring down prices. And therefore, if the Chancellor is to support a. Give Chancellor is to support a. Give energy support, can off grid be part of that?

12:34

Ms Polly Billington MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Thanet, Labour)

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>> I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I appreciate that he actually represents one of the most rural parts of the of the country, and therefore, the importance of us having allocated £53 million across the UK to help the most vulnerable people is very important. Five £4.6 million has been given to the Scottish Government, and it is important that they get that money out of the door in order to be able to help the most vulnerable people in his Scotland.

12:34

Alex Mayer thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recently met Paul Hughes, who proudly showed me his AI enabled heat battery boiler. I'm delighted that the government has made that tech eligible in the Boiler Upgrade Scheme. Would the Minister also consider speaking to Treasury colleagues about having this technology, a part of the Energy Savings Materials VAT relief framework?

12:35

Martin McCluskey MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank my hon. Friend for her question. As my hon. Friend for her question. As you know, decisions on tax are a matter for the Chancellor. But what I can say is that my Department announced our intention to make heat batteries eligible for a 2500 pounds grant under the boiler upgrade scheme, and a committee of this House will be considering legislation for this on Thursday.

12:35

Rt Hon Dame Karen Bradley MP (Staffordshire Moorlands, Conservative)

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Dame Karen Bradley. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. There is a great deal of concern in Staffordshire Moorlands about the >> Cluster. >> Proposal.

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Which is a proposed project. To take. Carbon from. Four cement plants in the Peak District and pipe it into Morecambe Bay. And whilst I'm not opposed to carbon capture, many residents are extraordinarily concerned about the extraordinarily concerned about the impact this will have on them. So can I ask the Secretary of State to look carefully at this project and look carefully at this project and see whether there are alternatives to that? We can keep our cement industry in the United Kingdom without perhaps destroying our

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without perhaps destroying our environment in the Peak District. Can I thank her first of all, what she said about carbon capture more generally, and we are absolutely looking at those alternatives around decarbonising those hard to abate sectors. The peak cluster is not a government peak cluster is not a government backed project. It is for them to do all of the community engagement. And I have heard from a lot of members across this House that that hasn't been as good as it should be.

I encourage them to make sure that I encourage them to make sure that that is as strong as it can be, and it will be subject to a planning application when it comes forward.

12:36

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Scott Arthur thank you, Mr.

12:36

Dr Scott Arthur MP (Edinburgh South West, Labour)

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Speaker. I want to return to Jackdaw and Rosebank. Last week, Jess from my office organised a showing of the National Emergency showing of the National Emergency briefing, and it was very well attended and afterwards I do not think anybody I spoke to thought that Jackdaw Rosebank should go that Jackdaw Rosebank should go ahead and I know the Secretary of State won't be drawn on this for legal reasons, but it would be good to hear her acknowledging the deep concerns that many people have about this issue.

And one person did ask that if it does go ahead, did ask that if it does go ahead, could every single penny of the money raised by the government be invested in the transition? Thank you, Mr.

12:37

Rt Hon Miatta Fahnbulleh MP, The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Peckham, Labour )

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Mr Speaker. I obviously can't go into the specifics of consenting into the specifics of consenting decisions that are quasi judicial. What I would say to the House is that we are trying to make those decisions at pace. The other thing I'll be very clear about is any decision I make will be compatible with our climate commitments. That is the first responsibility I have as Secretary of State, and that will be absolutely clear, and I think my hon. Friend and his constituents should hear that loud and clear.

12:37

Rt Hon Alistair Carmichael MP (Orkney and Shetland, Liberal Democrat)

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Alistair Carmichael thank you, >> Alistair Carmichael thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I also welcome the announcement today about the government's intention to regulate the market in heating oil for communities like mine, completely off the gas grid with the highest levels of fuel poverty in the country, this could be a significant moment. What my constituents would like to know, however, is when they might see this proposal become implemented. Reality.

12:37

Ms Polly Billington MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Thanet, Labour)

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I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I think it is his question. I think it is important to make it quite clear what kind of proposals we are considering taking forward, working with the regulators and industries to make sure we have a proportionate regulatory regime, stronger protections for consumers, so that we develop a robust and evidence based framework. We will work with the industry to strengthen consumer protections in the code of conduct, and we will review industry practices, which currently set minimum order volumes at 500l for some customers, will raise the awareness of payment plans to make sure customers have the right options available to them.

We want to get this right, Mr. Speaker, and that is why we will work with the industry and with consumer organisations to ensure that that regulatory framework really makes a difference for consumers in the. And the hon. Gentleman's constituency and across the country.

12:38

Afzal Khan MP (Manchester Rusholme, Labour)

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Afzal Khan thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. I'm proud to stand behind the government who is taking climate action seriously. However, we are already However, we are already overshooting critical limits, and climate change will only get worse if we do not stop burning fossil fuels. So can I ask my right hon. Friend whether a full, direct climate impact of Rosebank and implications of the international community's efforts, transition away from fossil fuels will be considered in making this decision?

12:39

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well. >> Well. >> Look, as as I've said in a number of answers, I can't comment on particular projects, but just on on particular projects, but just on the general point, the very reason we're in this situation with these consents is because we have to take into account, because of the court judgement, the scope three emissions of these, which does mean there will be a full environmental assessment. And we have been very clear that that environmental assessment is critical in the consenting decisions that we will make in due course.

12:39

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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Alicia Kearns thank. >> Alicia Kearns thank. >> You, Mr. Speaker. As the state says, the Falkland Islands are independent, but she seemed to gloss over the fact that the gloss over the fact that the Foreign Secretary still has to give approval to oil drilling. Now, will she therefore give her full throated support to the decision today and support the Falkland Islands in this important venture, and also tell us when she was consulted on the decision?

12:39

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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I can, I can I just can I can I just say to the opposition party, just say to the opposition party, this is quite a change in foreign policy of the party opposite. If their position is now that we should interfere in the day to day decisions of the Falkland Islands government, that has. That has not been the position of that government. That has not been the position of the party opposite, and government.

12:40

Kerry McCarthy MP (Bristol East, Labour)

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Kerry McCarthy. talking to many small businesses in my constituency. The Minister might be particularly interested to know that includes 12 independent breweries. They're really struggling with their energy bills. What representations have been made to the Chancellor about the need to support them?

12:40

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm the >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm the one who can organise something in a brewery, apparently, and we hear lots of representations from hon. Members in support of small businesses and their energy costs, and we recognise the challenges that they face. Obviously, eligible small businesses are already benefiting from the VAT cut on top of that. We will see measures coming forward to deal with third party intermediaries, who are often ripping off small businesses. But as I said in my earlier answer, we are keen to go further and I'm working across both of my departments towards that end.

Mr. Murray?

12:41

Susan Murray MP (Mid Dunbartonshire, Liberal Democrat)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When Torness closes in 2030, Scotland will be left without a nuclear will be left without a nuclear power station for the first time since the 1950s. That steady, low carbon power will still have to come from somewhere, and the SNP government still refuses to block nuclear. What discussions has the Minister had with the Scottish Government about keeping Scotland's lights on once Torness closes?

12:41

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, can I thank the hon. Lady for her question? I know she has a debate on this subject as well and I completely agree with her. Torness nuclear power station has been keeping the lights on in Scotland every single day of the week, and it is a disgrace that the Scottish Government is refusing to accept the critical role that that firm power plays on Scotland's system. Scotland has absolute potential for new nuclear, for good jobs in every part of that country. They are missing out on thousands of jobs because of the anti-science ideological position of the Scottish Government.

I take every opportunity I can to persuade them of the error of their ways, but since they do not even bother to turn up in this house, I am afraid I will have to continue having that debate with Scottish Ministers. you.

12:42

Markus Campbell-Savours MP (Penrith and Solway, Labour)

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Mr. Speaker. Last year, some of >> Mr. Speaker. Last year, some of us warned that distributing heating oil support through local authorities carried risks, with some councils imposing strict means tests that help too few and other councils setting limited criteria, meaning nearly all applicants were successful, got very little and then blamed the government for insufficient support in Cumbria. That's exactly what happened. What more can the Secretary of State do to ensure the right people receive the right level of support?

12:42

Ms Polly Billington MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (East Thanet, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I appreciate the question from my my hon. Friend. He's right that local authorities in England, in particular, are the ones who are making decisions about how they use their Crisis and Resilience Fund money that has been allocated to them in order to be able to support heating oil households. However, I will say here at this Dispatch Box that they should be on notice from us if they have been allocated money to their Crisis and Resilience Fund in order to be able to support vulnerable homes, vulnerable households who are using heating oil, they should be creating criteria in order for them to be able to access it because.

12:43

Martin Vickers MP (Brigg and Immingham, Conservative)

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Thank you. >> Lindsey oil. >> Refinery in my constituency seized ceased production, creating both job losses. And it also means a greater proportion of our diesel products have to be imported at greater cost. Does the Minister now regret not giving additional support to the continuation of production at Lindsay Hoyle?

12:43

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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Well, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate >> Well, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's engagement. As we were going through that process, the House will remember that it was an insolvency driven by decisions that the directors of of the Pam Cox Lindsay Hoyle refinery had made at the time. That investigation continues into their actions. We did try to seek everything we could do to find a buyer, and I am glad that 66 next door has taken over those assets so that we can continue to make use of that site and to do everything we can to support the workers who do an incredibly important job.

12:44

Brian Leishman MP (Alloa and Grangemouth, Labour)

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Final question, Brian Leishman. >> Much, Mr. Speaker. >> £15,000 in 1991 is certainly not £15,000 now. So will the Secretary £15,000 now. So will the Secretary of State meet with me to discuss amending the outdated schedule four of the Coal Mining Subsidence Act of 1991 to raise the £15,000 statutory cap on the home loss payment so that my constituents can receive fair compensation as they face dealing with demolishing their homes. Mr. speaker, can I firstly pay. Tribute to my hon.

Friend, for

12:44

Michael Shanks MP, Minister of State (Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) (Rutherglen, Labour)

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all the work he has done with the community and coalsnaughton? I visited there recently and met with householders. It is a hellish situation that they are going situation that they are going through, none of their own making. The Mining Remediation Authority is working on a case by case basis working on a case by case basis with individual households to make sure that there is a process in place that works for individual households. We are limited by the households. We are limited by the legislation, but the UK government has been very clear that we will meet all the costs for those householders, and I am very happy

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householders, and I am very happy further. Point of order, Mr. Speaker. Point of order. Alicia Kearns thank you, Mr.

12:45

Points of Order

Speaker. I am sure the Minister did not mean to, but he seemed keen to misrepresent. One might say the relationship between the Falkland

12:45

Alicia Kearns MP (Rutland and Stamford, Conservative)

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relationship between the Falkland Islands and the UK government. The Falkland Islands are independent, but the Foreign Secretary has a but the Foreign Secretary has a responsibility to sign off any such decision on oil drilling, which is not what the Minister said. It was also surprised that such a state, also surprised that such a state, when directly asked my question, shows that she did not want to give her support and directly answer the question how might I get the Minister to make sure they actually represent the relationship between ourselves?

12:45

Mr Speaker

Let me just say something. We can't continue the debate, and I know that the hon. Lady will find many other ways in which you can many other ways in which you can seek that answer, but I think we'll leave it at that for now. Right. Right. Right. We come to the next urgent question.

12:46

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Nick Timothy thank you, Mr. Speaker. To ask the. Speaker. To ask the. >> Justice Secretary to make a scheme. >> Minister.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government inherited a prison system on the brink of collapse. In July 2024, men's prisons were July 2024, men's prisons were operating at 99% capacity. At one point, there were fewer than 100 places available across the male estate. Without intervention, we risk running out of prison places, leaving courts unable to sentence offenders and police unable to make arrests. This government has acted to increase capacity and to reform sentencing. We have committed to delivering 14,000 prison places by 2031 and have already delivered 3200.

The last government added just 500 places in their time in office. We've also accelerated the removal of foreign national offenders, returning around 11,700 to their countries of origin. It is within this context, Mr. Speaker, that we launched the Independent Sentencing Review in October 2024 and subsequently passed the Sentencing Act earlier this year to place the prison system on a more sustainable footing and ensure there is always space available for the most dangerous offenders. The act also aimed to avoid the chaotic emergency release schemes carried out, with little scrutiny or warning by the Conservatives, but we know that aspects of these changes cause concern and are determined to do the right thing for victims.

That is why the government listened to the concerns raised, paused implementation of the progression model and conducted an urgent review. As the Lord Chancellor confirmed in this House on the 1st of September. In addition to the 18,000 dangerous offenders already ineligible for the progression model, this government has excluded rape and serious child sex offences from eligibility for changes to release dates under the Sentencing Act, unlawful killings, including manslaughter, causing or allowing the death of a child and death by dangerous driving are also excluded, as well as indecent assault, ensuring more historic child sex offences prosecuted under older laws are treated consistently with equivalent offences.

Today. This means hundreds more dangerous criminals will be staying behind bars for longer, including those who killed PC Andrew Harper in the line of duty. The first releases on the progression model took place on the 1st of October. Mr. speaker, with His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service working closely with operational partners to ensure eligible offenders were released safely into the community. As the second tranche of releases begins today on the 13th of October, robust arrangements remain in place to manage releases, support probation practitioners and supervising offenders and ensure that those subject to electronic monitoring requirements are fitted with a tag as part of the supervision of offenders released into the community, Hmpps will maintain rigorous oversight of those on licence, with measures in place to recall those who are non-compliant.

We recognise, Mr. Speaker, the significant effect that changes to release dates can have on victims. We will ensure those in the Victim Contact Scheme that are affected by these new exclusions are informed. If there are any changes to the release date of the offender in their case. I have also instructed my officials to attempt to contact victims not in that scheme, to provide information should they wish for that to happen. We have launched the Victim Support Offenders Release Helpline with nearly £19 million worth of additional funding.

This will provide victims with emotional support, practical advice such as safety planning and general information about the sentencing changes. Mr. speaker, it's important to add that the Ministers for prison, probation and reducing reoffending is unable to be here herself today because she is currently speaking with governors about early release and how implementation of the progression model is going.

12:49

So. Justice Secretary Nick Timothy. Timothy. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two weeks ago, 700 prisoners were released from prison across the released from prison across the country, and today a further 650 will be released, most after serving just one third of their sentence. The Justice secretary told the country that proper safeguards would be put in place with a presumption that all released prisoners would be tagged. He called it the toughest tagging regime in history, but that was nonsense. Four days after the first release, the justice secretary admitted he had no idea how many had been tagged, and he protested it was unreasonable to expect him to know how many had been tagged so soon into the scheme.

Mr. speaker, I have some advice for him and his Ministers. It is better to work out how to implement your policy before it starts, not after we know a majority of prisoners are not being

12:50

Nick Timothy MP (West Suffolk, Conservative)

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tagged before release, and we know reoffending is off the charts already. The met says there have already. The met says there have been 100 tag breaches in London each day since Labour's first early release scheme began, while 2 or 3 release scheme began, while 2 or 3 prisoners released early are being rearrested every week. Mr. speaker, I don't want to hear the same old I don't want to hear the same old lines from the Minister, although I note he has changed his tune since the Prime Minister took office in the Prime Minister took office in July.

I don't want to hear the same old lines about prison buildings. Since the election, not a single new prison development has been planned or approved. Those were his words in a written answer. The only new prison open started under the last government and. And prison places are unused because officer numbers are down under Labour. So can the Minister tell us very clearly the answers to the following three questions. How many prisoners released so far have and have not been tagged? How many tag breaches have there been by released prisoners? And if he doesn't know the answer, when will the Justice Secretary and his team find out and tell the House of Commons?

12:51

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> I'm grateful for the hon. Member's questions. I noticed over the conference recess that the the conference recess that the Member for Harborough, who I think is the Conservatives policy chief, did apologise for the lack of investment and action on criminal justice over 14 years of conservative government. It would be welcome to hear that from the Dispatch Box today, but alas, we will still have to wait for that apology. In terms of the questions asked, we have set out the numbers of prisoners that will be released in each tranche, and that's publicly available on the government website.

We will be setting out data in relation to prison releases, as we always do, and the next batch of data will be released in January of next year. This is a new sentencing regime. It's a new sentencing regime, and it's right that we release the data in the appropriate way, as we have always done.

12:52

Catherine Atkinson MP (Derby North, Labour)

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Catherine Atkinson chair of the Select Committee. >> Mr. Speaker. >> Tagging could be a way to provide real reassurance. >> To communities.

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And victims, but only if tags are fitted promptly and offenders are fitted promptly and offenders monitored. In April of last year, the Justice Select Committee raised concerns in writing about the time concerns in writing about the time being taken to fit tags, and the Institute for government found between January and April of this year that more than 5000 people who should have been monitored were not should have been monitored were not tagged. That equates to 15% of all people with an electronic tagging order and almost 1600 people wearing a tag were wearing a tag that didn't send a signal due to technical faults or the device not being charged.

So can the Minister tell us if anything has changed since April? Specifically, what percentage of GPS tags are now being fitted on time? What is the longest time an offender can wait before monitoring begins, and when will offenders be tagged on day one? As victims and the public should be able to expect.

12:53

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well, she's right to raise the importance of not just having a importance of not just having a tagging regime which works, that makes sure that it's robustly monitored and scrutinised. There have been improvements by Serco, the company that's operating the tagging regime, since March of this year. We've she would have seen no doubt the National Audit Office report and will be responding to that in full detail as and when the full report is published later this month.

12:54

Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)

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Jess Brown-Fuller Liberal Democrat spokesperson. Democrat spokesperson. >> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The prison capacity crisis that the Conservatives left behind is unforgivable. But the situation we find ourselves in two years later is a national emergency waiting to happen. The entire criminal justice system is in freefall. Victims have been left looking over their shoulders for their released perpetrators. More than a third of the places that were freed up with the last wave of releases were filled again within a week.

And the very probation officers that are overseeing these releases will decide in the coming weeks whether to take strike action. The government has never had a grip on this. Everyone who comes into contact with the criminal justice system is being failed, and tinkering around the edges won't fix it. So will the Minister commit to tagging prisoners immediately upon release at the gates, ensuring that perpetrators are not allowed to evade being tagged or are left unmonitored for days, as called for by the victims Commissioner? And will the Minister commit to a Royal Commission on the entirety of the criminal justice system, so we can finally get to grips with the deep rooted issues caused by successive governments complacency and mismanagement?

12:55

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Mr. >> Mr. >> Well, I thank the hon. Member for her question. In terms of the tagging, of course, we want to ensure and have a situation that prisoners, when they are released and it's necessary for them to be tagged. And there's a presumption for those that will be released to be tagged will be at source as soon as possible. Of course, those operational decisions are matters for the probation service. In regards to her suggestions to a royal Commission, in the first two years, we've managed to stabilise the criminal justice system.

We've begun to get some stability in terms of prison capacity. It was necessary to pass the new Sentencing Act and implement a new sentencing regime, and over the course of the following years, we'll make progress in terms of the Crown court backlog, which we're debating later today, and tackling reoffending, which is at the heart of the criminal justice system crisis that we face.

12:56

Jess Phillips MP (Birmingham Yardley, Labour)

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Jess Phillips. >> It has historically always, whether people were released at the right time or not early, under various different schemes and various different governments been rubbish for victims of domestic abuse. They're often not informed. The proper safeguards aren't put in place. And so I hear the Minister saying that now there's better talking to them. There's helplines. I have to say we have to be better than what? The opposite the opposite party did. There needs to be a proper systematic approach for victims of domestic abuse to make sure that every single possible safeguarding opportunity has been taken in every single case.

And I'm afraid to say, I feel as if the department doesn't know what's going on in in the world, because I'm meeting women every week who have not been informed and have not had any safeguards provided. Can he assure me that there is vital work Minister?

12:57

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well, I thank her for her question. Of course, she's a long campaigner on these issues, and she's right that for too long the criminal justice system has failed domestic abuse victims. The victims Minister is working at pace with the prisons and probation Minister, alongside the victims Commissioner, to ensure that everything is done to try and support victims during this period. We have invested more money, but it's not just money. It needs to then work. And of course, I'll make sure that the victims Minister and indeed the Prisons and Probation Minister reach out to the hon.

Member to get the details of any cases that she has.

12:57

Rt Hon Sir Julian Lewis MP (New Forest East, Conservative)

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So. Julian Lewis yeah. >> So. Julian Lewis yeah. >> If I understand it correctly, the Minister said earlier that past the Minister said earlier that past victims and therefore presumably potential future victims are being informed and supported. Does that not imply that if they need this sort of information and support, the people who are being released pose a threat to them? What sort of category of person is being released? Is it a dangerous person? And if it isn't, why do the victims need the support which the Minister describes?

12:58

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well. >> Well. >> Mr. Speaker, in terms of the cohorts of those that are subject to the new regime, we've debated that at length in this place, both as the passing of the Sentencing Act and the changes that were made over the summer, and we return to this place. And the Justice Secretary quite rightly came to Dispatch Box on the 1st of September to update them. Going to the heart, we released 4500 prisoners every month in this country. We have done for the last 30 years.

Of course, there is an assessment as to what measures should be in place and what notification should be made to any victims. That is undertaken by brilliant probation staff every single day. Brilliant probation staff which were gutted by the last conservative government. So we are investing in our probation service to undertake that difficult work that they do week in, week out to keep our country safe.

12:59

Damien Egan MP (Bristol North East, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Getting prisoner numbers back down to manageable levels depends in part on an effective and well-managed probation service. As I've heard from probation staff in my own Bristol constituency, after years of cuts to service, they simply overwhelmed. Can I therefore ask what steps are being taken to support the ability of the Probation Service to manage the specific challenges posed by early release, as well as the strains facing the service more broadly?

12:59

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister? >> Well, he's absolutely right. Probation and probation service don't get enough attention in this place or indeed in public debate. More generally, we've implemented a £750 million investment into probation service. That's the biggest investment in the probation service for a generation, and we can compare that to what happened under the last government, where they were gutted. The failed privatisation experiment by Chris Grayling. Absolute disaster. One of the most acute disasters of the last 14 years, in my mind.

So it's right that we invest in them. We appreciate there are more challenges to come and we are working at pace with the probation service. Indeed, that's where the prisons Minister is today. Speaking with probation colleagues this morning.

13:00

David Chadwick MP (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, Liberal Democrat)

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David Chadwick thank you, Mr. Speaker. >> Kaitlin Hipsley, who grew up in Astragalus, was just 13 years old when he was killed tragically by a driver under the influence of drugs and alcohol in February 2024, the Court of Appeal increased his killers sentence to nine years, with at least six years to be served in custody before being considered for early release. Yet Caitlyn's family have now been informed that his killer has been transferred to an open prison after serving barely two years, and will soon be out on day release.

Can the Minister explain how this has been allowed to happen, and what assurances can be given to Caitlyn's family that the sentences imposed by the courts for offences like this will actually be upheld?

13:00

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Mr. >> Mr. >> Well, I thank the hon. Member for raising that clearly tragic case. I'm not able to comment on the details of the case, as I'm

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the details of the case, as I'm sure he'll appreciate, and I'll make sure the relevant Minister writes to him about that. Janet Daby Mr. Speaker.

13:01

Janet Daby MP (Lewisham East, Labour)

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And I thank the Minister for his response. I'm sure the Minister will very much be aware that care leavers represent some of the most vulnerable children and young people in our society, but yet they are overrepresented in our prisons. And indeed, there was a pilot conducted by catch 22 that worked across 135 local authorities, really supporting and working care leavers that find themselves in the criminal justice system, but in particular those leaving prison itself. Would the Minister agree to look at the outcomes of this pilot in his efforts to work towards releasing people from prison?

13:01

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister? that the disproportionate proportion of the prison estate is taken up by those that have been in taken up by those that have been in care, and this goes to the heart of this debate, Mr. Speaker, which is about how do we confront reoffending? We know that reoffending makes up such a large degree of the criminality that we see on our streets. So when people do come into contact with criminal justice system too often or not, they leave it more likely to commit crimes.

We've got to tackle that. That is an issue of capacity. It's also an issue of investment in probation. And in fact, just earlier today, the Leader of the Opposition has said that she wants to support dealing with reoffending, which is a sensible grown up intervention from the leader of opposition. I was quite surprised to read it. I look forward to working with her on those issues in the months ahead.

13:02

Simon Hoare MP (North Dorset, Conservative)

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Simon Hoare. Thank you. >> I have guys. >> Marsh prison. >> In my constituency. It provides the. >> Prison officers.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Who work there. The Minister will know that all of these policies flow from the pressure on policies flow from the pressure on the spaces in our prison estate. Not that long ago, government had crown prerogative powers to bring forward new prisons or extend prisons without going through a lengthy planning process that would lengthy planning process that would solve the problem at a stroke. Why will the Minister not investigate that in order to speed up an expansion in prison spaces?

13:03

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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The hon. Member has raised this >> The hon. Member has raised this point on a number of occasions when we've had the opportunity to debate this issue. He's right. We need to look at how we can fast track planning infrastructure projects of real national importance, such as prisons. And I know that the prisons Minister, indeed, the Justice Secretary is taking a close eye on that. I would just gently push back to the hon. Member that some of his colleagues on on that side of the chamber spend a lot of their time in their constituencies opposing the building of prisons.

The Member for Market Harborough, who's apologised for the Conservatives record on criminal justice, spends a lot of time opposing the prison that we're building in his constituency.

13:03

Connor Naismith MP (Crewe and Nantwich, Labour)

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Thank you. >> The reality is that there. >> Would not be an early release scheme if the party opposite had not presided over a record where they left our prisons at 99% capacity, having built a staggeringly low 500 places in their 14 years in government. But my constituents are angry about the situation that we find ourselves in. So I wonder if the Minister can set out what steps the government is taking to reassure victims, and also to ensure that we never end up in this situation again?

13:04

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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My hon. Friend is right, and I can tell. Mr. speaker, I can set can tell. Mr. speaker, I can set out very clearly what we're doing by the end of this Parliament. There'll be more criminals behind bars than ever before under a Labour government. And that's that's, Mr. Speaker, and that's due to the fact that this government is spending three times, three times more on prison building than the Conservatives ever did the prison the conservative government closed 23 prisons. We're building 14 thousands.

That's the difference between a Labour government and a conservative government.

13:04

Richard Tice MP (Boston and Skegness, Reform UK)

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Richard Tice thank you, Mr. >> Richard Tice thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sad truth is that dangerous sexual predators are dangerous sexual predators are being released early under this scheme. The sister of a friend of mine was told by police just a few weeks ago that her heinous assailant was being released in a few months time. There was nothing they could do. She resigned her job and she has fled the country in terror. This is where things have got to.

I would say to the Minister, there are some 4000 cells empty requiring maintenance and refurbishment. There are 10,000 cells occupied by overseas nationals. Will the government use those places in order to stop dangerous offenders from being released early?

13:05

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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In terms of the case that the hon. Member raises, I'm very happy to ensure that he has the appropriate information needed and will be able to look into that case individually in terms of capacity. More generally, this is still a challenge. The prison capacity, although there may be 4000 places available today. Obviously there are different categories of prisons. There's a geographical need. It's not quite as simple as simply a numbers game. It's a bit more of a complicated picture than that. And just in terms of the foreign national offenders, I'm proud that this government has increased the deportation of foreign national offenders by 40%, and we will continue to deport more foreign national offenders when the new ERS scheme comes into effect early next year.

And I look forward to members from across the House supporting the government in its efforts.

13:06

Belinda. >> The prisoner early. >> Release scheme is here simply because of the failings of the previous conservative government, and that is absolutely clear. But as the Minister has already acknowledged, what we do not want is those prisoners to end up back in prison within a short time after being released. So what is being done to stop those prisoners from reoffending, particularly as regards their re-employment and resettlement? Minister? Well.

13:06

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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He's right again, coming to the >> He's right again, coming to the heart of this issue. This debate is how we can confront re-offending. It's why we're working with local employers, and we've got regional councils to try and ensure that people have opportunities for work and housing. It is a challenge. It's been a challenge for decades that ex offenders, when they leave prison, often don't have the right support. Now it's why we're investing in the probation service. It's why we're working with local authorities at pace to ensure that ex-offenders, when they leave prison, are given the opportunities to build a stake in society and not commit offences again.

13:07

Rt Hon Liz Saville Roberts MP (Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Plaid Cymru)

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Liz Saville-Roberts and I refer members to my register of interests members to my register of interests and my role as the chair of the Justice Unions APPG. This second tranche of early release is coming tranche of early release is coming so soon after the first probation staff are just in despair at the level of their workloads, and though there was a workload measurement tool and it was used to help balance workloads, but it was switched off from the 25th of September this year.

So workload pressures and insufficient pay is why probation union Napo is holding a formal ballot on industrial action next Monday. Does he recognise, therefore, that the probation system is on the brink of collapse?

13:07

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well, I don't accept that the probation service is characterised as she is. She does so. There are as she is. She does so. There are great challenges, though, and the prisons Minister, prisons probation Minister is today at a conference with probation colleagues, meeting them, listening to them, working with them because we need a probation service to work with us on the challenges we face ahead. I would gently say that this government has invested, as I said before, £750 million in probation, the biggest investment in probation for a generation.

We've introduced new technology, Justice Transcribe, an app which helps probation officers save a huge amount of time with paperwork building into their capacity. But we accept there are challenges ahead, Mr. Speaker, but we are meeting with colleagues and we'll work with them to meet those challenges. Well.

13:08

Chris Webb MP (Blackpool South, Labour)

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Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister confirm to my constituents in Blackpool South that the most dangerous offenders, including rapists, are excluded from the progression model? And what steps is his department taking to repair the prison estate left on the brink of collapse by the party opposite, and ensure we never reach this crisis point again?

13:08

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well. >> My hon. Friend. My hon. Friend is right, and I can confirm, Mr. Speaker, as as the Prime Minister has and indeed the Justice Secretary has at this Dispatch Box, that rapists are not going to be subject to the new regime. And he's also right that constituents like his, like mine, expect us to meet this challenge by building more prison places. That's why we are investing in 14,000 new prison places. By 2031, there'll be more criminals behind bars at the end of this parliament.

Under a Labour government.

13:09

Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)

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Ashley Fox Mr. Speaker, the >> Ashley Fox Mr. Speaker, the Minister will know that the 3000 new prison places that have come online since the election were all online since the election were all started by the last conservative government. So will he tell the House why this government has not planned nor approved any new prison spaces since it came to office?

13:09

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Mr. speaker, we hear this a lot conservative MPs saying, well, we conservative MPs saying, well, we didn't do anything for 14 years. We didn't spend much money. And then in the final few months we thought, gosh, we've got a prison capacity crisis. We better start planning. And then we called an election. It's absolutely hopeless. What we are doing is the biggest prison building programme since the Victorian era, 14,000 places by 2031. Now, the policy chief for the Conservatives apologised for their record.

The Leader of the Opposition has apologised for their record on criminal justice. Will he Tristan Osborne?

13:10

Tristan Osborne MP (Chatham and Aylesford, Labour)

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Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Can I thank the Minister for that? Can I thank the Minister for that? And of course, the legacy of the Inherit is the inheritance of the failure of the previous government that didn't build enough prison places and left it until the last minute to to sanction new places. I appreciate the clarity from the Minister around the new prison places. This government is investing in 14,000 in the future. Can I also ask about recruitment of prison officers staff to ensure that we have those personnel in place to support that expansion, so that we do not have to resort to early release in the future?

13:10

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister? >> Minister? >> Well, he's absolutely right that there's a challenge alongside our prison building programme, which we again, the biggest the biggest prison building programme since the Victorian era. We do need to recruit staff to staff those prisons. It's why, again, we are implementing a new range of recruitment initiatives to ensure that we have the prison officers in place to make those prisons safe and workable.

13:10

Vikki Slade MP (Mid Dorset and North Poole, Liberal Democrat)

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Vikki Slade thank you. >> Mr. Speaker. I have several. >> Constituents who've been in touch with me who are victims of domestic abuse and desperately need to move. Emotional support and to move. Emotional support and safety planning is cold comfort when their offenders are cutting off their tags, when they're making threats to kill, and when the victim's address is being disclosed to them. And still, these vulnerable families are coming 12th, 15th, 18th on the list for being moved for new social housing.

So what is the Ministry of Justice doing with local authorities to ensure these families are properly prioritised, sir?

13:11

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well, Mr. Speaker, I absolutely shouldn't be the case and I'll ensure that the right Minister appropriate Minister meets with her appropriate Minister meets with her and discusses those individual cases. That's very worrying. As I've said, we've invested in community safeguarding measures with another £18 million for victim support as well. But I appreciate entirely, Mr. Speaker, the victims want reassurances to their safety, not just warm words. And that's what this government is committed to doing.

13:11

Tom Hayes MP (Bournemouth East, Labour)

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Residents and I are deeply concerned about the possible return of a convicted child sex offender to Townsend. Following his planned release on Saturday. I held a community meeting which was joined by the Police and Crime Commissioner, as well as Dorset Police, and it's clear that people are concerned about this man not just being a cause of concern in his own right, but being a magnet for violent and anti-social behaviour to himself and to the wider community.

Will the Minister arrange for a meeting with the probation Minister and myself and local residents? Because the last thing we want is to see Townsend going through this sort of ordeal.

13:12

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister. >> Minister. >> My hon. Friend has raised this particular issue and indeed this issue more generally with me on numerous occasions, and I will, to the extent that I'm allowed to make these promises at Dispatch Box will ensure that he has the right Minister.

13:12

Charlie Dewhirst MP (Bridlington and The Wolds, Conservative)

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Thank you. government was too slow to react. HMP Mills in my constituency, was given planning approval in September 2019, but it took six years to build that prison. According to the latest figures, Mr Speaker still has 344 empty cells. So shouldn't the Minister be moving heaven and earth to ensure we fill every available cell, rather than releasing dangerous criminals back onto our streets?

13:13

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Yeah, Minister. >> Right. Well, Mr. Speaker, as I've said, the Leader of the Opposition has apologised for their record, but some of them haven't got the message in terms of using the space. He's absolutely right that we need to maximise the prison estates. The Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary at this Dispatch Box made it very clear that he was looking at how we can maximise all parts of the prison estate. As I've said before. Answering a question earlier in the session, Mr.

Speaker, it's not quite as straightforward as just a numbers game because there are different categories of prisons, there's different geographical demands. 1 in 7 of the prison population are on record, many are on remand, so need to be near there, the appropriate courts. It's not quite as straightforward as the hon. Member would like to suggest, but of course we are determined to use every single space that we can. Chris Vince thank you, Mr.

13:13

Chris Vince MP (Harlow, Labour )

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Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

We saw the. Failure of the privatisation experiment done by the previous government and the impact that had on probation staff impact that had on probation staff and those people that were using the probation service. So I welcome those comments. Like the member opposite, I'm really concerned opposite, I'm really concerned about those that are using tags and cutting those tags off. And I've spoken to victims of domestic violence in my constituency, Harlow, violence in my constituency, Harlow, who have raised that directly to me.

So what reassurance can he give me that that won't be allowed to

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happen? If it does happen, those people that are on tagged and take severely. Minister my friend is right that

13:14

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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any attempt to interfere with tagging is very serious and will be treated with with in the toughest treated with with in the toughest possible way. There have been concerns raised about the tagging regime by the Nao and others, and the government will be responding the government will be responding in due course. Performance has improved since the interim report was published a few months ago. But he is also absolutely right that at he is also absolutely right that at the heart of this is how we tackle reoffending and how we bolster our probation service.

We have invested probation service. We have invested in probation service. There are challenges that have been raised that we accept, but I will not Mr Speaker take lessons on the probation service from the party opposite after the failed privatisation that they implemented on the probation service under now Lord Grayling. Lord Grayling, one of the biggest failed experiments in public service reform in the last 40 years.

13:15

Wera Hobhouse MP (Bath, Liberal Democrat)

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Will have us. domestic abuse organisations in Bath and there was fear, Mr. Speaker. I mean real fear about those from those organisations who represent survivors and victims, about the number of early releases. Avon and Somerset Police was at the meeting at the Round Table and tried to reassure the group that they had the capacity and could manage the situation. But how will the government actually make sure, assess and review that Avon and Somerset does have the capacity to support victims and survivors? How do we assess that? When will there be a review?

13:15

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister the hon. Member is right and this government understands there are concerns, understands there are concerns, understandable concerns from victims groups and victims themselves. The Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary was at this Dispatch Box and accepted that, and we've invested more into our victims liaison work to ensure that we are doing a better job at reaching out to victims, ensuring that they are heard, and also listening to them to make sure that we are able to put into effect safety measures that will help them.

We are regularly talking with the police and investing in the police as well, to ensure that, as much as possible, we keep communities safe during this period.

13:16

Clive Efford MP (Eltham and Chislehurst, Labour)

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Clive Efford thank you, Mr. briefly for duties elsewhere in the House, 650 people being released House, 650 people being released today. We know they're coming. We can anticipate the fact that we need to release 650 people. Now, I googled, what's the reason we can't tag people on release? And it says it's the lack of capacity of the companies that have got the contracts for, for, for actually attaching these tags. Now, that seems to me that they're not fulfilling the contract.

It can't be beyond the technological ability to, to tag people on release. So what are these companies going to do about Minister?

13:17

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Well, Minister. performance of these companies who undertake the contracts. We are working closely with Serco to see that has seen an improvement in the implementation of the tagging since March earlier this year. I would also suggest, although there is a presumption for every person to be released to be tagged, ultimately this is an operational decision and a decision for the probation service as as is the case for the 4500 prisoners who are released every month as per normal.

13:17

Jim Shannon MP (Strangford, Democratic Unionist Party)

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We'll let the Frontbenches change over after Jim Shannon. >> Thank the Minister very much for his answers. >> Can I say to the Minister the. I'm sure he watched the TV this morning with the Met Commissioner. Sir Mark Rowley was on saying he's arresting 2 or 3 early release offenders per week. If that is the case, and it seems that it is so. Any given example of the person who was arrested last week was released last week for for theft from shops, and he lasted a whole few days and he was back in again for the very same thing.

But more worryingly, they met the commissioner said this morning, those who have been convicted of of criminal armed, of firearms offences have been released. Surely Minister it's time to ensure that gun toting criminals aren't allowed to back out on the streets again.

13:18

Jake Richards MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Rother Valley, Labour)

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Minister.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thought that there was going to be a session without a question from the hon. Member, so it's reassuring to have the question reassuring to have the question that there is a. The point here is that we know that, for example, 1 in 7 of the prison population are in 7 of the prison population are in prison on recall. Already there are recall provisions in in, in, in are recall provisions in in, in, in operation. And that's right. If people are released from prisons and they break their licence conditions or indeed commit a further offence, they should be further offence, they should be brought back to prison.

Now that is the system working. We want to bring down that number because we want to tackle reoffending and make sure when people do leave prison, they don't turn to crime again. And that's a lot of the work we're

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doing with the probation service and local authorities, right? That let the front bench change We We now We now come We now come to We now come to next We now come to next Urgent Question show. Secretary of State. Tom Tugendhat.

13:19

Urgent question: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if he will make a statement on the threats posed by Iran to British interests

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm grateful. This is the first time you've granted me an urgent question. In this role. I have a fear that it won't be the last, but I am. I am grateful for you doing so. To ask the Foreign Secretary if he will make a statement on the threats posed by Iran to British interests.

13:19

Stephen Doughty MP, Minister of State (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Cardiff South and Penarth, Labour )

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Minister well, thank you. urgent question. And can I, Mr. Speaker, also welcome him to his role? He's always been a good colleague and friend, and indeed thank him for his service to this country, not only as a former Minister but also in his past career. Mr. speaker, the government takes the threats posed by Iran to British interests extremely seriously. We have acted robustly in response to them and we will continue to do so. Iran's hostile activity, both directly and through its proxies and networks, continues to pose a significant threat to the United Kingdom, to our partners and allies, and to the rules based international system.

And we know the threats posed by Iran, and whether that is directly or whether it's through partners like the Houthis or indeed militias in Iraq or indeed Lebanese Hezbollah, many, many other groups that he is more than aware of. We will act. And protecting the British public and defending our national security is the government's first duty. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the government sanctioned two Iranian IRGC officers for their role in state threats, state threats, activity and we have sanctioned nearly 240 individuals and entities in relation to Iran, whose actions threaten our people and security.

And we will continue to keep all those tools under review and will not hesitate to take further action where appropriate. Yesterday, Mr.

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