LGBT Financial Recognition Scheme

Al Carns Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Pritchard. I thank the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for securing this important debate and for her wider efforts to ensure that LGBT veterans are properly and promptly compensated for past injuries, injustices and wrongdoings.

I also thank Fighting With Pride. I came into this job nigh on a year ago, and I often say that courage is not a reaction but a decision. The ability of its members to shout when being pushed down and told to be quiet has really raised this issue over the past couple of decades and brought it to where we are today.

I am also grateful to right hon. and hon. Members who have fought valiantly on this issue, not just while I have been in post but previously. Importantly, I thank the late Lord Etherton. It is unfortunate that he is not here today; nevertheless, the foundations of the programme lie with him and he should be deeply honoured.

The hon. Member for Chichester has helped to shine a spotlight on a truly dark era in military history. When I joined the military in 1999, the ban was still in place, LGBT personnel suffered horrific mistreatment and abuse, and homophobic bullying and sexual violence were absolutely widespread. That injustice has cast a long shadow over the lives of so many. Many dedicated professionals had their ambition in life cut short by those rules and regulations. My view that it is an injustice was powerfully reflected in the late Lord Etherton’s independent review in 2023. It is an injustice that placed the Ministry of Defence on the wrong side of history. It is an injustice that the Government are determined, and have done so much, to address.

Lord Etherton’s review, with all its recommendations, was submitted to the Government in May 2023 and published in the summer of that year, so there was a year between then and our coming into government. In the time that we have been in government, we have delivered a lot, although there is more to do. After much deliberation, we launched the financial recognition scheme. Up and down, left and right—not in our Government, perhaps—individuals were concerned that the payments were not enough or would not be processed in the right manner, but this Government raised the budget to £75 million.

The scheme will be open for one year, but I want to be absolutely clear, as I have been with the previous and current heads of Fighting With Pride, and assure all LGBT veterans that, if they are eligible and apply, they will receive their payment. Even if that extends, we will live by that commitment. Importantly, if the payments exceed £75 million, those who are eligible and apply will still receive their FRS payment. We will absolutely live by that. I have taken huge pride in how fast we have got here, and we will deliver.

I met Fighting With Pride this week and heard veterans’ concerns. We are looking in detail at the financial recognition scheme, and I will say more on that after I have given a progress update. As of 30 June, the Government have completed 42 out of 49 recommendations of Lord Etherton’s review. I saw one of those recommendations the other day: the memorial that will be built, which is looking fantastic. Five more recommendations are pending ministerial approval. Some of those do not sit within our Department, but we are almost there. We will complete those as fast as we can.

I am pleased to update hon. Members on the progress of the financial recognition scheme, which acknowledges the harm inflicted by the ban and offers tangible recognition to those who were affected. The Government have been unequivocal and I have been committed to ensuring that we right the wrongs of the past. The Prime Minister, the Defence Secretary and the chiefs of services have all expressed their deep regret for the unacceptable treatment of LGBT personnel. The scheme that launched in December 2024 is a tangible demonstration of that commitment. As I said, we have raised the budget to £75 million. I hope that brings affirmation and some measure of closure to those who have waited far too long for consecutive UK Governments to address the damage of those times.

On slow payments, I must address the important issue that the hon. Member for Chichester rightly raised: the timely delivery of payment to veterans who have served the country with courage and distinction. The rate at which those deserved payments are being processed is an issue that is causing considerable concern to constituents.

I take note of the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven (Chris Ward) about an individual who may be terminally ill or elderly. I want to be clear that part of the reason the process has been quite slow is because we have focused on the terminally ill, the elderly and the most complex cases first. I made a commitment to Fighting With Pride that we would do that to ensure that no one misses out on payments due to illness or age. That has contributed, although it is not the sole reason, to the speed and delivery of payments, but I will stick by it because it has to be a No. 1 priority. We are almost through what we think are most of those claims.

I assure hon. Members that we are taking decisive action to deliver payments more swiftly and efficiently. I will mention a couple of things that we are doing. We are boosting resources and allocating extra staff and funding to ensure that claims are processed more quickly, so veterans receive the support they deserve. A key reason for delay has been problems with the automated payment system. We acknowledge that and are looking into it. We are trying to process claims as quickly as possible. The system will get faster the more claims that we process, so we think it will speed up. That will streamline the process and reduce the administrative bottleneck, which is significant.

Let us remember that a lot of the files and data are not held digitally, so it is not a case of a Google search. There are Yellow Pages-sized files sitting in hangars all over the UK, so it takes time. We are also increasing the frequency of sittings of the independent panel to two a week, hoping that the automatic system will catch up, to reduce waiting times. Although there is still work to be done, I am confident that those combined measures will speed up the system. In addition to the commitments that I made earlier, the LGBT community should be assured that no one will miss out.

The issue about front-loading some of the military records when the non-financial redress scheme kicked in was that no one had agreed to or committed to the financial redress scheme, so we did not know what was required in the first place. That was not this Government but previous Governments. We did not front-load that; a lot of the non-financial redress schemes were already completed or under way.

On the 18 weeks for information, I will get back to the hon. Member for Chichester with the statistics on how we process that. We will have an electronic copy of that, so I will be sure to write to her with the detail. On the civil servants, the only thing I would say, and I say it relatively gently, is that those civil servants with the expertise to focus on the payments are the same civil servants who are writing ministerial correspondence back to people. The more ministerial correspondence that we get, the more time they are spending on that, rather than on processing claims. I will say this: after the Ministry of Defence broke the trust of LGBT communities, please now have the trust that we will deliver on this guarantee for you.

I will provide a bit of transparency on the details of the scheme and answer some of the questions put by hon. Members. As of 7 July, we have received many applications for the scheme. Of those, 944 were submitted online and 162 were received as hard-copy applications. To break that down a bit further, there were 242 applications for the dismissed or discharged payment only; 250 applications for the impact payment only; and 614 applications for both payments.

[Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)]

The Minister may recall that in an earlier armed forces debate, I raised the case of Kate Green, a Royal Military Police veteran who felt compelled to leave the service just before the ban was lifted. Will he join me in highlighting the fact that the impact scheme makes provision for people who felt compelled to leave and that they, too, can apply for compensation?

[Al Carns]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct and I champion what he says. For anyone out there who has not made an application, please get in touch and process it as fast as possible.

I will give a couple more statistics for the record. The first payments were made just 15 weeks after the scheme’s official launch and I am pleased to report that we have now paid over £4.2 million in total in the redress scheme. There were payments to 84 applicants for the dismissed or discharged payment, with each applicant receiving over £50,000. Additionally, we have made £82,000 in impact payments to 11 applicants, ranging from £1,000 to £2,000. I see the scheme speeding up considerably in the not-so-distant future.

It is worth noting that all payments are exempt from income tax, which was one of the key issues for Fighting With Pride when we moved forward with the scheme. Furthermore, payments will not affect any means-tested benefits, such as universal credit, income support or housing benefit, which is also critical.

Now, I have a message for anyone listening to this debate, or for anyone pushing out details about it on social media. I urge all those affected by the ban while serving between 1967 and 2000 to read the guidance, and to please apply for financial recognition via the “Veterans of the LGBT Ban: Financial Recognition Scheme” page on gov.uk. They have my word and a commitment that if this process extends for longer than a year, we will keep going and we will ensure that individuals who put in a claim get it resolved as quickly as possible.

I will also say that the scheme is not necessarily just about financial recognition. It is also about acknowledging the sacrifices and indeed the injustices faced by LGBT veterans, and ensuring that their experiences are recognised and indeed valued.

[Jess Brown-Fuller]

I hear the Minister’s call loud and clear that the process will be slowed down if there is lots of ministerial correspondence to answer. Can I therefore ask him to provide a regular update from the MOD so that hon. Members on both sides of the House do not feel like they need to continually chase things up on behalf of their constituents?

[Al Carns]

That is a really valid point and I will make sure that there is a communication strategy put in place to ensure that both the individuals affected and hon. Members from all parties are kept up to date on the scheme’s progress. Again, I thank everybody for raising issues; people should keep raising them if they see them. We will change, test, adjust and move forward as fast as we can.

The Defence Secretary and I remain committed to driving this work forward until every recommendation of Lord Etherton’s review is implemented. As I said before, when I joined the armed forces, the ban on homosexuality was still in place, which is just madness if we think about it now. Of course times have changed, but the financial recognition scheme is our acknowledgment that we must move forward faster than anyone else and increase the resources available from Government, and that no matter when these events occurred, they were completely wrong and we will redress them. To all those affected by these past failings, I say—from me to you—that we hear you, we absolutely value you and we are committed to righting the wrongs of the past.

Question put and agreed to.