Kashmir

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Bob Blackman

Thursday 11th September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Griffiths]

No. I think I have heard enough from the hon. Gentleman. I have a short amount of time, so I should like to move on.

It is sad that this debate started off in such aggressive tones, because we should not forget that it is not about lines on a map or territory, but about humans and humanity. That must be central in all discussions that take place on this issue.

We have heard some fantastic speeches. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) for leading the first debate on Kashmir on the Floor of the House, in which he spoke eloquently and was very informed. I had the pleasure of visiting Pakistan and Kashmir with my friend the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk), and talking to people who had been affected by this issue. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) also made a fantastic speech.

I want to talk about the impact of this situation on the people of Kashmir. We need to talk about human rights. The hon. Lady mentioned the report compiled by Amnesty International, “India: A ‘Lawless Law’”, which considered the operations of the 500,000 Indian troops stationed in this area—just think about that figure for a second. We heard earlier that, of course, the elections had taken place and that it was all fine: nobody had raised the issue of separatism in the elections. I say gently that there are 500,000 troops with guns pointed at people in this area, so it is slightly difficult to accept that an election can take place under those circumstances.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) says, “Well, this is a minority in Indian-administered Kashmir who want a plebiscite and their right to self-determination.” If that is so and he genuinely thinks that only a small minority of people in Indian-administered Kashmir are in favour of independence, then let them have the vote. What is there to worry about? What have the Indian Government got to worry about?

[Bob Blackman]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Andrew Griffiths]

I will carry on, if I may. I have only a few minutes, as my hon. Friend will understand.

There is a serious issue here in relation to human rights. Amnesty International clearly identifies instances of people being abducted and disappearing and talks of torture and rape. We have well documented evidence of mass graves and mass killings. We are talking about the fact that 100,000 have died as a result of what has gone on in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Lots of people in the Kashmiri diaspora in the UK get hugely frustrated that this is the forgotten crisis. How on earth can we forget—how can we ignore—the fact that 100,000 people, or more, have lost their lives, that there are mass graves and that rape is being used by the Indian army? These cases are well documented by recognised non-governmental organisations. It is essential that we address this matter here.

Many hon. Members have said today that we should keep our nose out and that the British Government have no reason for involvement in this matter, but of course they do. We have an obligation because it is well documented that the British drew a line on the map. We chose where the borders were. It was a British decision and we have a responsibility to do what we can to assist. It is not for us to come in like some grand colonial power, telling India and Pakistan what they should do. However, we have an obligation to try to facilitate and foster a resolution. We should use our influence to get the Indian and Pakistan Governments around a table, discussing this issue in a calm, civilised way.

There are three sets of people who must take part in these discussions: the Indian Government, the Pakistan Government and the people of Kashmir. That absolutely must happen, and until it happens it will continue to be a stain on India. I am a great fan of India—I have great respect for the country—but this is a question mark that hangs over it and it is in everybody’s interests that it finds a solution to the problem.

The hon. Member for Bradford East is pessimistic and I understand his pessimism, but there is some opportunity for us to move things forward. Although we have had some setbacks with Mr Modi, he has the power and the desire to find some solution here.

There are other things we can do. We must keep in the forefront of our minds the effect that the situation has on the people of Kashmir and try to do what we can to improve the lives of those people—including, as we have heard, allowing trade across the borders and allowing movement. It is unthinkable that, because of the line of control, people have never been able to see their grandchildren or visit the graves of their parents. That is barbaric and we must do what we can to solve that problem.

We should try to demilitarise the area. I understand the concerns about the line of control, but how can it be necessary to have 500,000 troops to defend that? We must try to take the gun out of this situation as much as possible.

We have seen the devastating impact this situation has had on the people of Kashmir. I hope that there is a change in approach from this Government and that we can be proactive in trying to encourage a solution. The British and American Governments have a role to play in facilitating that dialogue and improving the lives of the people of Kashmir. There must be an improvement in those people’s quality of life. Yes, I would love to see the people of Kashmir having the right to self-determination, but it is critical that Kashmiris’ lives improve, and improve as soon as possible.