Plug-in Vehicles

Andrew Selous Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I called for a debate on ultra-low emission vehicles on 10 May 2011, and we had an interesting hour-and-a-half Westminster Hall debate at that time—to which the Minister who is here today replied—so it is good to be back here discussing this really important issue, to see what progress has been made, and to encourage the Government to keep on going in the direction in which they have started out.

There are four powerful reasons why the issue is tremendously important. The Chair of the Transport Committee, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), has already mentioned the first: the need to tackle climate change. If we are to have green electricity, ultra-low emission vehicles and electric cars in particular have a significant role to play in addressing climate change. Secondly, the economic potential is huge. Having the new apprentices, the young men and women who will have to learn to build the cars, service them and keep them on the road, and maintain the infrastructure and spread it out, gives the possibility of hundreds of thousands of extra jobs for our constituents across the country.

Thirdly, producing our own green electricity helps us deal with energy security, which is a big issue that this country faces. Lastly, and probably the reason that our constituents would most support, is the genuine potential for lowering the cost of motoring. We must recognise that owning a car and putting diesel or petrol in it is becoming a rich woman or man’s game. I am distinctly uneasy about that because for many people a car is a means to earn a living, take their children to school and get to hospitals and doctors, because public transport is not always available as and when they want it. This issue matters enormously.

We have made a good start and, to be fair to the Opposition, I think that a good start was made under the previous Government. I am reassured by the commitment I have seen from the Department for Transport, from this Minister, from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and also from the Treasury, given what we heard in this year’s Budget. I think that we have cross-party consensus, which is good because we are talking about something that requires long-term investment, and the people who will be putting the money in need to know that, whatever happens with the future government of our country, both sides of the House share a commitment to take the matter forward.

Nevertheless, I ask the Minister: are we being ambitious enough for Britain? If we look back through our economic history, there are many instances when things have been invented and created in this country and then the commercial exploitation has gone overseas. There is a worry that that might happen, with other European countries and certainly with the far east. It is quite possible that a country such as China could decide to invest significantly in ultra-low emission vehicles, seeing it as an economic game changer. I want the components, the vehicles and the batteries to be made in this country to a significant degree; I do not just want to be importing them from overseas.

We have heard about production in Sunderland, and I was a little concerned by what the Chair of the Select Committee said about recent reports of slightly lower numbers of the Nissan Leaf being made in the factory there. I have driven the Leaf around my constituency. It is a very nice car. It is a good size—I think that both you and I, Mr Robertson, could get into it, which is reassuring. I want to see many more Leaf cars on our roads. I have also driven the Vauxhall Ampera. It was brought here, to New Palace Yard, and I and several Members who are keen on the subject drove it over Westminster bridge and Lambeth bridge and back to the Palace of Westminster—without crashing it, I am pleased to say. That car drives extremely nicely, too, with very good acceleration. It looks nice on the road; it is a desirable car. We are not talking about antiquated technology or cars for geeks; these are cars that we all, I think, would be proud to have on our driveways.

The USA is investing some $2.4 billion in supporting the next generation of electric vehicles, and in China a company called BYD—which I think stands for “build your dreams”—is investing significantly in new battery technology. Interestingly, or perhaps ominously as far as the UK is concerned, Warren Buffett has apparently taken a 10% stake in the company, so if his past investment record is anything to go by, it will be a great success. Elsewhere around the world, Israel plans to have a transport sector that is completely oil-free by 2020—the Chair of the Select Committee probably takes a particular interest in that—and Denmark is very advanced and intends to move forward significantly in this area.

The hon. Lady mentioned the price of electric vehicles, which is a significant issue because, to be honest, they are not cheap at the moment. She mentioned a figure of £20,000 or so, even after the Government’s generous £5,000 discount. That is a lot of money—I have never spent £20,000 on a car—and of course there is no second-hand market for electric vehicles. I bought the car I currently drive for £6,000 second hand, but people cannot buy a second-hand electric vehicle for that amount of money.

My question to the Minister—if he answers only one of my questions, I would appreciate it if it was this one—is: when does he believe it will become an economically rational decision for a motorist watching the pennies to buy an electric vehicle? I believe that moment will come, because although petrol and diesel prices are now dipping a bit, in the longer term they will sadly go only one way, which is up. There will come a point at which it is economically rational to decide to buy and run an electric car, because it will be cheaper to do so, despite the up-front investment of buying it and the cost of keeping it on the road. When that moment comes, there will be a large change, because hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of people will say, “Right, for my next car I want an electric vehicle. I want cheaper, cleaner motoring.” Above all, I want us to be ready for that moment, and not importing foreign components and cars when it comes.

My constituency of South West Bedfordshire had no electric charging points in May 2011. The Minister may remember that I pursued him about that. We were due to have some, but we had a few teething problems getting them. Since our last debate on this subject, I have unveiled electric charging points in Leighton Buzzard and Dunstable in my constituency. To be honest—we must always be as honest as possible in this place—great use has not yet been made of them. I am not surprised about that, because there are still very few electric vehicles on the road. There is a Nissan garage in Dunstable, which will sell more and more Leafs, and Vauxhall is extremely strong in my area, with a factory in neighbouring Luton, and I hope that local Vauxhall showrooms will try to sell the Ampera. I can see that there will be increased usage, and I hope that such electric charging points will be used. We of course need more of them, but some are being rolled out. The Government are doing the right things: there are increasing numbers of them in car parks at visitor attractions and motorway service stations.

Not many people realise that an 80% recharge is possible in about half an hour. People think that going somewhere means that they will have to wait for hours and hours to recharge their car, which will not be worth it. The average family might easily stop at a motorway service station for 20 minutes—by the time they go in, use the facilities, buy a cup of coffee and get everyone back in the car—so being there for only another 10 minutes to get an 80% recharge in order to continue their journey will transform what electric vehicles can do. People will be able to make longer journeys without having inconveniently long pauses.

In conclusion, it is good to have the Minister here, but I just want to hold his feet to the fire, in a sense, by saying that I really think that the issue matters for our country, constituents and economy in respect of climate change. As I have said, we have missed great economic opportunities in the past, so I urge him, after his good start, to keep on pushing the policy very hard. It has support right at the top of Government, as we saw in the recent Budget. The opportunities are huge: people have spoken of a $2 trillion market, and the United Kingdom’s share of that market really matters for the well-being and prosperity of this country. That is why I think that the issue is important and why I am here this afternoon. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Robertson.

It is also a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour, the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), who gave a very good introduction to the need for the decarbonisation of transport for environmental, energy, security and economic reasons. I will not try to better his explanation, but I have some concerns about how we can best deliver that in the context of electric vehicles. There is certainly a role for an electric vehicle market, but I am not sure that it will evolve in the way that the Government or other parties—there is some consensus across parties—hope, and I trust that hon. Members will bear with me while I set out my rationale for that view.

The first obstacle to the significant extension of electric car ownership is the high cost, as has been mentioned. Even with the generous discount available, the capital sum involved is still large. Currently, a like-for-like comparison between an electric car and a petrol or diesel one is a no-brainer, unless people happen to be wealthy enough to afford the premium. The usual trend is that a new technological product is initially extremely expensive and then, as the technology improves and more people take it up, the price drops. When plasma screen televisions were first introduced, the cost ran into thousands of pounds, but the price has now come right down and they are available for most people to buy.

I am not as certain as my hon. Friend that we will easily reach a tipping point at which the cost of electric vehicles will come down and make them a rational purchase choice for many consumers. My concerns about why we will not get there are largely technical, but are also from the point of view of convenience. At the moment, the range of an electric car is about 100 miles maximum, but that can be significantly reduced by use of the air conditioning, the radio and all the other gadgets that we increasingly take for granted in cars. Apart from in a very domestic market, that is a big inhibitor: people will not have the confidence to buy such a car for regular journeys to other parts of the country for business or holidays. Even half an hour, for an 80% recharge, is a significant addition of time to a business journey. That is one reason why there will be a difficulty—I am not saying that it is impossible—in getting consumer certainty and confidence.

[Andrew Selous]

I accept what my hon. Friend is saying. He is making some fair points, but does he accept that there might well be significant improvements in battery technology—for example, with the use of graphene—that would transform those issues?

[Iain Stewart]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I hope that we reach that point, but I am not yet convinced that the technology is there to deliver that step change. It may come. I am in no way an expert on these matters, but from all my discussions with manufacturers—the Nissan Leaf was developed at Cranfield, which is close to both our constituencies—I did not get a sense that there would be a radical shift in range immediately. It may come, and I hope it does.

My other concern relates to the domestic consumer and their confidence in running an electric car. Not everyone can plan their daily journeys with great confidence. We might have our regular commute from home to work and back again, and that is within the range of the car, but then we have to pick up kids from sports activities or do an extra shop. We can suddenly add to our daily journey in all sorts of ways. Until we get to the point where the recharging of an electric car is as convenient as going into a petrol station to fill up, in terms of time and availability, we will not get that step change in consumer demand.

We have lots of charging points in Milton Keynes, but drivers can never be certain that those spaces will be free. They could be left stranded if they are not near a plug-in point to be able to recharge their car. If consumer confidence does not improve, I fear that we will not get the sort of demand that will reduce the unit cost of the car. We might be locked into that difficult cycle, which is why I fear that we will not get a huge increase in numbers in privately owned electric cars.

[Andrew Selous]

I take my hon. Friend’s point about the length of time that it can take to charge a battery, although perhaps not having to shell out £85 might compensate for that in quite some significant way. May I ask him about the technology developed by Better Place, which can literally swap over batteries in less than a minute? At least that is quick and would perhaps answer the issue that my hon. Friend quite properly raises.

[Iain Stewart]

If that could be delivered, I would be absolutely delighted, but I have not seen any evidence that that is a practical solution. If my hon. Friend has evidence to the contrary, I would be interested to see it. I have outlined what I fear the barriers are; they are not insurmountable but a challenge none the less.

I see a better future for electric cars in the fleet and hire market. My initial thoughts on that came from our Rail 2020 Select Committee inquiry. On a European visit, we met with Dutch state railways, which gave us a presentation on an integrated transport system with smart ticketing technology that involved rail, bus and increasingly hire of electric vehicles in city centres, and it is now heavily promoting that. We have a real opportunity in this country for the development of electric cars. They are not cars that people will personally own, but they could be hired on a very short-term basis for 30 minutes or an hour or for a day or a couple of days. By shifting the responsibility for recharging from the individual driver and user to the fleet company or hire company, we would be able to remove much of the uncertainty, which I fear will prohibit people from purchasing the cars themselves. It would also help in the siting of charging points. Local authorities could work with the hire companies and whoever owns the fleet to strategically position points so that the cars are dealt with in an efficient way. It would also address the fear that was mentioned by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) about the potential overload on the electricity system if the pattern was that people come home from work and plug in their car.

Mr Robertson, you might recall that at about this time last year, you and I attended a conference in Copenhagen with European transport and environment committees. One concern expressed was that the demand from electric cars might be so great that the only way to spread the load would be to introduce price limits and controls to discourage people from charging their vehicles at particular times, which defeats the whole object of the system.

By having more of the recharging done by fleet or hire companies, we would be able to stagger the recharging of cars in a more uniform way and avoid the overload that could potentially happen if the consumer pattern was to start charging at 6.30 in the evening. It would also help with the planning of some of the issues of standardisation that the Select Committee has identified.

A better rate of decarbonisation in privately owned cars will be achieved through the development of hybrid car technology. The body weights of motor vehicles are increasingly coming down: a number of manufacturers that I have talked to have high ambitions of delivering carbon savings by developing not wholly electric cars but hybrid and lighter vehicles. That, I feel, is the biggest potential saving, but there is a role for electric cars as well.

Before the Government commit too much money in going down one route of providing plug-in places and all the other infrastructure, I urge them to take a step back and assess whether there are other ways in which we can more effectively see an increase in electric vehicles.

Finally, let me make one separate point, which the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside briefly mentioned, and it neatly bridges in to the second debate on road safety. Having very quiet or near silent cars on the roads poses a potential danger for pedestrians, especially for blind and partially sighted people. The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association is running an effective campaign on that, and wants a noise gadget to be introduced so that electric cars can be heard by visually impaired people.

As part of the Select Committee’s inquiry into disabled access to transport, with Guide Dogs for the Blind I took a bus journey blindfolded. Losing the power of sight is an incredibly scary experience. The purpose of the ride was to investigate audio announcements on buses, but when I was at the side of the road, I became very dependent on hearing cars. If they become so quiet that they cannot be properly heard, it could cause a real danger.

There is perhaps a market in creating different noises for cars. One could buy a little run-about car that sounds like an Aston Martin. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire talked about developing new technologies; I have just suggested one, and as Aston Martin is a very good employer in Milton Keynes, I heartily recommend it. Perhaps we could return to that issue of road safety in the second debate. I urge the Government to consider the matter.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chair of the Transport Committee, on securing this debate and on the way that she presented her case. I will do my best to respond to the points that have been made, but without causing those interested in road safety to be here for a fruitless exercise.

I also thank other Members who have contributed to the debate, especially my hon. Friends the Members for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) and for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart). The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire in particular has been a strong advocate of electric vehicles ever since I have been a Minister and no doubt for a long time before that.

Let me be quite clear that the Government is fully behind the drive towards low-carbon vehicles, both because it is environmentally sensible—in terms of cutting our carbon emissions—and because it represents a significant opportunity for British industry and British jobs to get ahead. I assure all Members that we are focused on that drive. There is close work between the Department for Transport, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Treasury. The Chair of the Select Committee rightly referred to the measures taken in the recent Budget, which are a good example of how Departments work together for a common purpose, and send long-term signals that this is where we want to go in terms of our transport objectives. As always, I will say at this point that creating growth and cutting carbon are two sides of the same coin; the commitment that we have made as a Government to the roll-out of electric and low-carbon vehicles is a precise example of that.

We are making significant progress. The 2011 Carbon Plan laid out how the Government intends to tackle rising greenhouse gas emissions, and new car emissions are outperforming the progress that was expected. We are on track to meet the 2020 indicator target of 95 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre. As Members will know, there is also a 2020 target in place for vans, which is 147 grams of CO₂ per kilometre. I am reasonably confident that that target will also be met.

Stricter emissions targets are stimulating the shift to ultra-low emission vehicles, as well as improving the performance of standard, traditional or normal—if we can call them “normal”—vehicles. We are determined to create the right conditions and infrastructure for the development of an early market for ULEVs. We have committed £400 million so far in this Parliament to that end. This has resulted in the provision of more than 4,000 charge points nationwide, through the eight plugged-in places, with 70% of those being publicly accessible. I am delighted that the private sector has responded with its own charge points. We are now seeing a huge increase in the numbers available to the public at large.

[Andrew Selous]

I was surprised to hear the contribution from the Opposition Benches just now about there being no charging points in Manchester, one of our great northern cities. Will the Minister say whether that is because of the Government or because of Manchester, or are there plans to change that?

[Norman Baker]

That information is incorrect. There are 29 charge points installed to date in Manchester and 58 are to be installed later this year. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to put that correction on the record.

As has been mentioned, the plug-in car grant was launched in 2011 and extended to vans in 2012. To the end of March, we have received almost 4,000 claims for these grants. We hear some doom-mongers in the press in particular, and one or two in Parliament, who suggest that this is somehow a terrible result. It is not. A graph can be plotted for any new product, for example, a DVD—or, in the past, video—recorder, showing what happens when a new product is put on the market. There is naturally a slow upturn, leading to a sharp increase. We are perfectly content that the roll-out of electric vehicles is not dissimilar to that of any other innovative product launched in the past.

I agree that we need to do what we can to encourage the market for such vehicles. I agree with the Chair of the Committee that it is important to identify the potential for fleet buyers. We are doing that, not least through our work with the Energy Saving Trust, with which, as Minister, I agree a programme of work each year. One of its clear targets is to encourage the take-up by fleet purchasers of low-carbon vehicles. That is one way in which we will stimulate the market. Doing that will bring down the unit cost and will help, generally, to increase the number of cars that are sold.

[Andrew Selous]

Some of my constituents work in the Luton van factory, making the excellent, award-winning Vauxhall Vivaro van. I have often spoken to Vauxhall about whether it has any plans to bring in an electric vehicle. Will the Minister update us on what recent conversations he has had with UK commercial vehicle manufacturers about the potential for making electric commercial vehicles here in the UK?

[Norman Baker]

I am happy to provide my hon. Friend with details about that. We are in regular contact with manufacturers in the country to encourage them to pursue that matter further. In respect of that particular manufacturer, I will exercise my brain cells to find out whether anything comes to me during this part of the debate, to enable him to have a fuller answer.

It was suggested that these are merely second cars for rich people, but that is not so. Some 73% of the so-called second cars have taken up the grant for business use, so business is embracing low-carbon cars. That is the predominant purchasing market at present.

We are in the process of updating the “Making the connection” infrastructure strategy and looking to restate the rationale for policy in this area, and this debate helps, as does the Committee’s thoughtful report. As this strategy develops, I will be limited in what I can say about what it will contain. However, we are aiming to publish it in early summer and hope to be able to provide an in-depth analysis of our programmes to date and use this, and robust evidence from other key stakeholders, to set out a pathway to the mass adoption of ULEVs in the UK.

We are currently talking—we always do; it will not be a surprise—to automotive manufacturers, infrastructure providers and energy providers, because there is an issue about the grid. We are also talking to our colleagues at the Department of Energy and Climate Change, trade associations representing the motorcycle sector, other Departments, and so on. That is not an exhaustive list, but I hope it gives hon. Members confidence that we are engaging cross-departmentally and across industry, with all relevant parties, to ensure that we are getting the best possible future for ULEVs.

I think we are getting the policy right. The start of Nissan Leaf production in Sunderland is proof of this. Of course, it is not just that. The BMW 8 engine is to be produced in the UK; the batteries are now being produced, helped by the significant investment in research and development, which the Government has brought forward.

We have the potential to achieve—I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire—and we must be ambitious for Britain in this area. We must ensure that we become the focal point for the development of ULEVs. We are on the way to doing that, certainly as far as the European dimension is concerned, by getting in early, with clear direction from Government. Industry has said to the Government that it welcomes the clear, direct steer from us, giving long-term certainty about the direction of travel. To be fair to the Opposition, all three parties have embraced this agenda, giving certainty to industry beyond particular Parliaments. It is important that that stays as it is. We want more auto manufacturers.

Another point about the number of vehicles sold is that there is a limited number of vehicles on the market at the moment. That will change rapidly, with a new range of vehicles coming along shortly, giving far more choice to the consumer and the business user as to which vehicle they purchase for their particular needs. That, as much as anything else, will lead to an upturn in sales.

I will now try to answer questions asked by hon. Members. The national charge point registry was mentioned by the Committee Chair in her opening contribution. It is a requirement under both plugged-in places and the new national grant scheme that all publicly accessible charge points funded by the Government must be registered with the national charge point registry. Good progress has been made in adding data to the NCR. There are currently 3,085 points on the register.