Terrorism: Domestic Extremism

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, a Jehovah’s Witness may or may not be an extremist depending on their activity. Extremists seek to justify behaviour that contradicts and undermines our shared values. If that is left unchallenged, those values that bind our society together start to fall apart: women’s rights are eroded, intolerance and bigotry become normalised, minorities are targeted and communities become separated from the mainstream. That sort of behaviour cannot go uncontested.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, can extremism ever really be legally defined?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It will be legally defined when it is defined in law.

Policing and Crime Bill

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Report: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 12th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I was just about to say—I do not know whether the noble Lord will be satisfied by it—that the College of Policing is currently developing authorised professional practice on media relations, and its guidance makes it clear that decisions should be made only on a case-by-case basis when it comes to the releasing of names. I am not sure that I have satisfied noble Lords but I have tried to explain how we have tried to achieve balance in the protection of anonymity for persons who are accused pre-charge.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

I wonder whether the Minister is going to deal with this difficult issue with its complicated argument by referring it to the Law Commission so we can have an independent view that may not be forthcoming from the College of Policing.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think that I have explained that the Government feel that we currently have the balance right and that we should preserve that presumption of anonymity—so I will not be doing what the noble and learned Lord suggests. I hope that my noble friend will withdraw his amendment and that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, will not press his.

Sexual Abuse: Harassment of Suspects

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope I can reassure my noble friend that the Metropolitan Police will be consulting on all the review’s recommendations with the National Police Chiefs’ Council, police and crime commissioners, the College of Policing, and the statutory and voluntary partners in the criminal justice system. In addition, police investigations into persons of public prominence and institutions are now nationally co-ordinated under Operation Hydrant.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, is there not a short answer to this problem—for the police not to publish names of suspects before charging?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there is a general presumption of anonymity pre-charge but there are operational reasons why the police might wish to release names. I must say, however, in the context of this week, that if the legislation on pre-charge anonymity recommended in the review was in place today, it would have prevented the UK media reporting the claims that we have heard this week and last of some of those alleged victims where there had been no arrests.

Operation Midland

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am sure my noble friend will understand if I do not talk about individual cases, but I certainly concur with his point: suffering arises when people have their names released and are guilty of nothing. However, by the same token, victims often do not come forward because they are frightened, but they need to feel that they can in these situations. The report was commissioned by the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, and therefore its publication arrangements and whom he distributes it to are matters for him to decide.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, since manifest injustice results from the publication of names before charge, is it not a matter of urgency that the whole law and practice should be reviewed independently at the highest level and should not rely solely on the views of the police?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is the view of the Government that there should be a presumption of pre-charge anonymity, unless it is for victims who previously felt unable to come forward to do so. I must stress that victims’ groups are very supportive of some situations where it is right that names are released.

Criminal Justice: Anonymity

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with my noble friend that the strength of our legal system is that people are innocent until proved guilty, and I hope that that always stays the case. I also completely sympathise with his point about the terrible suffering that people can go through when their names are made public but they are not in fact guilty of anything. I will not talk about individual cases but he mentioned people against whom the accusations were found to be groundless. It is important to say that there is a very fine and difficult balance to be struck. The voicing of victims’ concerns and the naming of people in the public interest to allow further evidence or further victims to come forward needs to be balanced with the right to privacy and protection of the person who is suspected.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, in view of the manifest injustice that can result from the publication of the names of a wide range of suspects, is it not time to have a complete review of the law and practice in this field? Will the Government consider referring the whole issue to the Law Commission?

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Monday 17th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That would be a matter for the inquiry to consider. It is an independent inquiry and it is not for us to try to micromanage or dictate what it does. It is independent. But I take the noble Lord’s point and I am sure the inquiry will be mindful of that.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, on 13 September, in view of the concerns of Judge Goddard, I asked the Minister that the terms of reference be amended. This was refused point blank. The Home Secretary told the Commons committee that the only reason that she knew of for Judge Goddard’s resignation was her loneliness et cetera. Her Permanent Secretary, sitting beside her, and officials, may have had much longer knowledge of concerns about Judge Goddard. Could this be clarified? Would it not be better for there to be a pause for reflection so that all involved, including the victims, could be satisfied that we are now on the right course—including having the right terms of reference?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the terms of reference were drawn up by the chair in consultation with the Home Secretary. The chair has made a statement today expressing her satisfaction with the terms of reference. As regards Judge Goddard, I understand that no concerns were raised formally and that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary had both a letter from Judge Goddard and what was presented to the Home Affairs Select Committee. Pausing for reflection is a matter for the independent inquiry. It is for the inquiry to decide whether it wishes to do that; it is not for us to tell it what to do.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to amending the terms of reference of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the inquiry is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get to the truth, to expose what has gone wrong in the past and to learn lessons for the future. The Home Secretary is clear that the original terms of reference were the right ones, and the new chair has confirmed that she has no intention of asking for them to be revised.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

No lessons appear to have been learned from the Chilcot inquiry. One of the problems there was the width of the terms of reference. In her resignation letter, Judge Goddard referred to the,

“inherent problem in the sheer scale and size of the inquiry”.

The Home Secretary has given evidence that she has no expertise of an inquiry of this size. Will the Government think again about the proposal from the committee chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, that there should be a permanent body of expertise in the Cabinet Office to assist Ministers? In this instance, it could report to Parliament on the progress of this inquiry in 12 months’ time.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, on the terms of reference being too wide, the previous chairman and the new chairman agreed that the terms of reference are right. It was not until she left that the former chairman, Justice Goddard, talked about the terms of reference being too broad. The inquiry will report on a regular basis, including a review in 2018.

Devolution: England

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the thought of Manchester having a Conservative mayor is a great one but, having lived there for some years, I am not sure that it is very likely to happen any time soon. Obviously the referendum some years ago on having a mayor was held under totally different principles from those that we have today, and local authorities can engage with their communities and their electors in any way that they see fit.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend will not be surprised if I cannot answer that question.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I refer noble Lords back to the process in London. When we first had an elected mayor in London there was scepticism, to say the least, about how effective the London mayor might be and how popular it might be as a concept. Fast-forward some years from that process, and we find that people are fighting to get that nomination and it has become one of the most sought-after positions in the country.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

My Lords, is it right for a small country such as the United Kingdom to have four nations developing systems of government at different speeds? Do the Government rule out a constitutional convention, rather than allowing piecemeal development?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, a constitutional convention is not on the cards at the moment. However, the Government are clear that they will not impose any sort of identikit model on each area. It is up to each area to decide how it wishes to take forward devolution proposals, and to take those forward with government.

Housing: Private Rented Sector

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Tuesday 23rd June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I myself have been a private landlord of a house in multiple occupation and know that, if a landlord refuses to do something, the tenant can inform the council. The council can come out and insist that the landlord does the work. If the house is in such a state that it is not fit for occupancy, the landlord has to make provision for alternative accommodation for those tenants in the interim.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, if I heard the term correctly, the Minister used the inappropriate term “welching”. Will she define it, please?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I did not mean it as a derogatory term to the Welsh.