Business of the House
Bob Russell Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Sir George Young
That question would have been better answered by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight). The Procedure Committee is conducting an inquiry into our sitting hours, to which the shadow Leader of the House and I have given evidence, and I understand that it is making good progress. I hope that it will produce its report before the summer recess and that the House will find time to debate it. I also hope that the report will be structured in such a way as to enable the House to vote on a series of options, so that Members’ preferences can be indentified before we move on to the next stage.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
Good news, Mr Speaker! Since I asked my question last week, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has now put the minutes of many of its board meetings on its website. They reveal a lack of attendance by most of its members. Indeed, at the meetings on 30 January and 8 March, no board members attended, other than the chairman. They participated by telephone instead, and one assumes that that enabled them to qualify for their £400 daily allowance. Given that the meeting of 8 March
“had been convened in order to consider the outcome of the consultation on MPs’ pension contributions and to approve IPSA’s corporate plan for 2012/13”,
does the Leader of the House agree that, at the very least, we as Members should have a debate on what the IPSA board is up to?
Sir George Young
IPSA is an independent body set up by the House to adjudicate on our pay and pensions. There might be an opportunity to address the issue of membership when the terms of office of some existing members run out and the question of reappointment, or the appointment of new members, arises. My hon. Friend’s intervention shows the effectiveness of Back-Bench Members in getting results at business questions. I remind him that he had an opportunity, I think earlier this week, to cross-question members of IPSA about their performance. No doubt he took that opportunity when it presented itself.
Whitsun Recess
Bob Russell Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
I ended my speech in the Christmas recess debate by saying:
“I am amazed that the leaders of the Christian faith around the world, whether the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, through the Archbishop of Canterbury, or the Pope, have remained silent. It is time that the Christian leaders spoke up for the people of the holy land.”—[Official Report, 20 December 2011; Vol. 537, c. 1292.]
Five months of silence has followed. Collectively—with certain significant exceptions—the Christian Church has abandoned not only the holy land but the indigenous Palestinian people. The Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury might like to check precisely what the parable of the Good Samaritan is about.
Hunger strikes by hundreds of Palestinians in Israeli prisons have gone barely noticed by the British media. One thing is certain: the holocaust of 70 years ago was not the fault of the Palestinians. It seems, however, that Europe’s collective guilt for what happened is represented by the collective repression and punishment of the Palestinians.
The preamble to the UN charter states that the UN was created, among other things,
“to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights…to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained…to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom”
and
“to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours”.
It specifically states that
“armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest”
and refers to
“the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples”.
Article 1, chapter 1 of the charter refers to the need to
“develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take…appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace”,
and to the need to encourage
“respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion”.
Mr MacShane
The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting speech, and I do not dissent from some of the points he makes. The puzzle is that in 1948 Israel was allowed to be created by the UN, so why was the Palestinian state not created then, with East Jerusalem as its capital and including the west bank and Gaza? Why did Palestine not come into being at that time?
Sir Bob Russell
I can answer that only by saying that in the year of my birth, the state of Israel did not exist, but today, maps of the middle east show that it occupies virtually the entirety of what used to be Palestine.
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)
Does the hon. Gentleman believe that the state of Israel should exist?
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
Vis-à-vis Israel and Palestine, does the hon. Gentleman believe in a two-state solution in the middle east?
Sir Bob Russell
Sadly, the attitude of the state of Israel is such that the probability of a two-state solution being achieved is moving rapidly towards zero.
The UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples, adopted on 13 September 2007, states
“indigenous people should be free from discrimination of any kind”.
It also makes reference to
“the urgent need to respect…their rights to their lands, territories and resources”.
Sadly, there is one country with which this country, every EU country and the United States have strong links but which practises policies of ethnic cleansing and apartheid against its indigenous people. I refer to the state of Israel.
On 11 September, the Israeli Cabinet decided to pursue the plan to resolve the long-standing issues faced by the country’s 200,000 Arab Bedouin population living in the southern Negev desert. The plan, known as the Prawer plan, will result in at least 30,000 people losing their homes. The Bedouin are Israel’s indigenous people, as accepted by the UN special rapporteur on indigenous peoples, but the Israeli Government refuse to accept it. Israel wants to move tens of thousands of Bedouin from their homes and villages into Government townships that are already overcrowded and have a large range of social and economic problems.
Last year, I had the privilege of visiting Palestine and Israel, the west bank and East Jerusalem. I witnessed at first hand those policies of ethnic cleansing and apartheid against the Palestinian people in the occupied territories—a separate matter from that of the Arab Bedouin. We have heard today about the Arab spring, but I am referring to the Arab winter. Palestinian children are being arrested, ill treated and, it is arguable, tortured. Some are being detained in Israel in violation of article 76 of the fourth Geneva convention.
I have raised concerns about the Israel-Palestine issue on numerous occasions in the House, most recently yesterday at International Development questions, when I again asked about ethnic cleansing and apartheid. On 11 January, I put my point directly to the Prime Minister. In response, he said that the United Kingdom was
“a country that should stand up for clear human rights and clear rights and wrongs in international relations. This Government have been very clear that we do not agree with the Israeli Government’s practice on settlements…and this Government will continue to act and vote on illegal settlements.”—[Official Report, 11 January 2012; Vol. 538, c. 178.]
I also raised these issues on 15 December at business questions. On 16 May, in a written question, I asked the Foreign Secretary
“what representations he has made to the EU not to renew Israel’s special trading status in view of its continued occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem in contravention of UN Resolutions”.
In response, the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), wrote:
“We support closer ties between Israel and the international community… The EU has been very clear that no progress can be made on upgrading the wider EU-Israel relationship until there is substantial progress towards a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. This is a position the UK supports.”—[Official Report, 16 May 2012; Vol. 545, c. 200W.]
On 15 September, I asked about the illegal settlements, and on 28 February, in an oral question to the Foreign Secretary, I raised for the first time the serious possibility of an Israeli armed attack on Iran. I asked the Foreign Secretary for a clear guarantee that the UK would not support Israel, militarily or diplomatically, should such an attack take place. He replied:
“We are not calling for or advocating a military attack on Iran, and at this moment we advise others not to do so. But we also believe that it is important to keep Iran under pressure and that no options are taken off the table.”—[Official Report, 28 February 2012; Vol. 541, c. 149.]
I have asked numerous other questions on human rights and the occupation.
Another interesting subject is how Israel ignores international law on the freedom of shipping in international waters. I tabled a written question about that last month, to which the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire, replied:
“The most recent incident of which we are aware”—
which suggests that there is more than one—
“is that relating to the HS Beethoven, which was boarded by the Israel Defence Force on 22 April 2012.”—[Official Report, 30 April 2012; Vol. 543, c. 1350W.]
So there we have it: international law and United Nations resolutions can, it seems, all be ignored by Israel without any retribution or action by this country, the European Union or the United Nations.
I am grateful to Ted from Liverpool, who has sent me some background information. He ends his message—the subject of which is “War War not Jaw Jaw is Israel’s way”—with the words:
“End the Occupation, then there will be Peace.”
He says:
“Many of us worry that Israel will drag us into a war with Iran… We now learn”—
the Foreign Secretary’s answer tended to confirm this—
“that Government Ministers are considering how we might be involved in the event of an Israeli strike and an Iranian response. America has already stated its own position in a Bill, HR 4133… Texan Representative Ron Paul, the only one to speak out against it, has said ‘...the objective is to provide Israel with the resources to attack Iran, if it chooses to do so, while tying the US and Israel so closely together that whatever Benjamin Netanyahu does, the US “will always be there”, as our president has so aptly put it.’…the vote was 411 to 2 in favour”
of the Bill.
Incidentally, just as a throwaway line, I am advised that the Olympic games organisers have listed Israel as a country in Europe.
Ted writes that recently in the other House,
“Baroness Brinton spoke of an Israeli army order to demolish 1,500 olive trees in Deir Istiya… the Foreign Office, whilst condemning Israel’s abuse of human rights in its Human Rights & Democracy Report for 2011, merely remonstrates with Israel over its abuses and at the same time rewards it with favoured nation treatment and trading agreements.”
Eric of Ipswich tells me:
“we are well used to Israel ejecting Palestinians from their own homes, for demolition… It is also normal for Israel to destroy Palestinian farms and land, to prevent the local population feeding itself”.
In fact, I have witnessed that myself on the west bank, where a priority for some of the illegal Israeli settlements is to stop up watercourses, depriving the indigenous population of water to grow crops, because the water is needed by the settlers for their swimming pools. Eric continues:
“in Yatta, Rateb al-Jabour…Israeli soldiers accompanied by policemen and members of the Israeli civil administration raided the area with heavy machinery and destroyed six tents housing over 30 people.”
The object of the Israeli demolition was
“to empty it of…local residents to expand the nearby”
illegal settlement of Sosiya. Israeli forces recently
“demolished an animal barn… south of Hebron,”
and
“Israeli bulldozers demolished…a 600-square-meter chicken hut, built 30 years ago, in…a village southwest of Ramallah”.
In the other House, the Foreign Office Minister Lord Howell was challenged over the destruction of Palestinian olive groves, to which, I am led to believe, he responded by saying, “Well, there are two sides to an illegal invasion/occupation,” which is an extraordinary statement. We have to ask the question put to me by Eric of Ipswich:
“How many more people have to die and suffer, before Israel is made to obey international law?”
He concludes:
“The one and only problem is the illegal occupation. Please use your position to put an end to the misery, require Israel to live in peace with its neighbours instead of attacking them all, and allow Palestinian farmers of olives and other crops and livestock, to earn their living and feed their people.”
In conclusion, I should like to draw the House’s attention to early-day motion 57, tabled by me, on the Co-operative Group’s Israeli boycott. I hope that all will support it. Sadly, Tesco does not do so: it continues to sell produce grown on land stolen from Palestinians by Israeli settlers. However, the Co-operative Group is banning all Israeli goods from the occupied Palestinian west bank. The motion
“calls on all other supermarket chains and suppliers to follow the excellent lead of the Co-operative Group; recalls that it was such boycott policies which helped end apartheid in South Africa; and calls on the Government to make representations to the EU to urge that all member states issue similar boycott measures and to end the special trading status which the EU has with Israel.”
Mr MacShane
Does the hon. Gentleman know the German term “Kauft nicht bei Juden”? If he does not, he can look it up when he reads Hansard tomorrow. I was in South Africa, where the minority white Government behaved abominably. I could not meet a black friend in an hotel. I worked with the black trade unions there. I share many of the hon. Gentleman’s criticisms of Israel, but the last time I was there, I could meet Arab Israeli parliamentarians and Arab supreme court judges, and I saw Arab women and their families swimming alongside Jews in the sea off Tel Aviv. The apartheid comparison is there for one reason only: an apartheid state cannot exist; it has no right to exist. Those who call Israel—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
Order. With respect, the right hon. Gentleman spoke for 20 minutes, and he knows full well that interventions must be brief. A lot of Members are still waiting to speak, and I will need to consider imposing a time limit if speeches do not get a little shorter.
Sir Bob Russell
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am unable to comment on what the right hon. Gentleman has said, as I have no personal knowledge of the points that he made.
I shall conclude by reading part of early-day motion 9, which
“calls on the UK Government not to support Israel in its continuing acts of breaches of international law and UN resolutions in respect of illegal action in international waters and in the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the annexation of East Jerusalem.”
Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)
It is a real pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher), who represents 3rd Battalion the Mercian Regiment. In the next few months, we are going to witness some spirited debates on what might be cut from the Army. They will be particularly important to those Members who might lose regiments in their own constituencies, so as a warm-up I should like to explain my view of the regiments and the regimental system, and tell the House what they mean to me.
We all know that the Army is designed to fight for us, if directed to do so by the Government. The way in which it is organised, and its esprit de corps, are crucial determinants of how it works when it deploys. The Army is obviously a martial profession, and none of us present will have any doubts about what might be the ultimate requirement for our soldiers. Napoleon correctly identified the morale of his soldiers as the crucial ingredient of their success. He called morale “the sacred flame”, saying that it mattered more than anything else. In that respect, he also insisted that
“morale is to the physical as three is to one.”
In short, high morale can compensate for many other deficiencies, including numbers.
I saw that when I had the privilege of commanding my regiment, 1st Battalion The Cheshire Regiment, in Bosnia during 1992 and 1993. Often in conversation with the commanders of the various factions and armies, I would be asked the same question: “How many men do you have under your command?” Obviously, I would not answer; instead, I would say something like, “Lots and lots,” but then I would ask them how many soldiers they thought I had. The answer was invariably between 3,000 and 4,000. In fact, I had 800. The point is that the soldiers of my regiment gave the impression that they were far more numerous than in fact they were. It was their esprit de corps, their morale and their regimental pride that gave that impression.
Organisation and numbers are of course important to military success. The strategic defence and security review has determined that the Army is to be reduced in size, down to as few as 82,000 serving soldiers. Many definitions of an army suggest that 100,000 should be its minimum size, so what is the future for our Army? Some people have suggested that it might more correctly be dubbed a defence force. I shudder at that thought. One thing is clear: we are going to have to cut down some units from what the Army calls its teeth arms. Regiments, or parts of them, in the infantry and cavalry are going to be disbanded. All teeth arm units are formed into regiments, and we are likely to lose some historic and highly valued names.
Quite rightly, the British Army’s regimental system is respected, and sometimes copied, worldwide, but what exactly is that much-rated regimental system? The term “regiment” started in Britain in the mid-17th century when retinues that followed a certain leader were organised into some form of standing military force. Such regiments were normally named after the colonel who commanded them. For example, my own regiment, which is now called 1st Battalion the Mercian Regiment—the old Cheshires—was first formed in 1689 on the racecourse at Chester. It was then called the Duke of Norfolk’s Regiment. Later it became the 22nd Regiment, after its precedence in the order of battle, and later still it became properly linked to the county of Cheshire. A similar process happened to most of our great infantry regiments.
Under this regimental system, each regiment became responsible for recruitment, training and administration. It developed its own style, which in turn derived strength and purpose from the regiment’s history and traditions. Even today, the colonel of each regiment still has the right to select his officers. In the past, and sometimes today, it was usual for a soldier—and many officers, too—to spend their entire careers within their own regiment. They frequently served with men they had known since birth. For example, at the time of the Ballykelly bomb in 1982, I was commanding officer of A Company 1st Battalion the 22nd Cheshire Regiment when six of my soldiers were killed, and over five days in mid-December 1982 I attended their funerals. All six were buried within the borders of the county of Cheshire. Amazingly, at these funerals, several mothers put their arms around me, saying that they fully realised my sorrow, too. It is because the regimental system is so emotive that it often seems like a family.
In fact, infantry battalions take great pride in using the words “the regimental family”. That is literally true, as when I was commander many soldiers in my regiment were in the fourth, fifth or even sixth generation serving in their family regiment. That sense of family is vital in battle. When they are very frightened, soldiers are often sustained by what they see as a greater fear—that of letting down their friends and their family. It gives them what I regard as another offshoot of the regimental system—the so-called “black humour” so often found among our soldiers.
As the incident commander at the time of the Ballykelly bomb in 1982, I was devastated to find four of my own lance corporals together in a crumpled heap under tons of concrete. One had been killed immediately the bomb exploded, another died shortly thereafter, a third lingered in agony for several hours, and the fourth was trapped by his legs on top of his dead friends. After four hours, the decision was made that he would have to have both legs amputated where he lay trapped by concrete—the threat of gangrene was growing and it might have killed him regardless. I told the badly wounded Lance Corporal William Bell, whose brother was also serving and whose family went back generations in my regiment, that we would have to cut his legs off. His incredible reply sums up what the regimental system is all about: “No legs Sir! One hell of a way to get out of the Pearson trophy tomorrow, isn’t it?” The Pearson trophy was the regiment’s weekly cross-country run. All ranks do it and it is universally loathed—especially by someone like me! But that ruddy awful run was part of the regiment’s style and ethos.
The strategic defence and security review has directed that the Army is to lose perhaps four or even more battalions from Army regiments. In the next weeks and months, we in this House will be debating and arguing exactly which ones will be affected. Some have suggested that no regimental cap badge will be lost. They argue that so-called large regiments—formed in the past by pushing small regiments together into a new grouping—will remain. That happened to my own regiment last time, when the 1st Cheshires were amalgamated to become 1st Battalion the Mercian Regiment. The 2nd Mercians came from 1st Battalion the Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment, while the 3rd Mercians were formed from the 1st Battalion the Staffordshire Regiment—from the area of my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth. All those battalions within those regimental groupings keep their own regimental histories and their own pride, despite coming under the umbrella title of the Mercian Regiment. It might seem easy to cut, say, the 3rd Mercians or indeed the 3rd Royal Anglians—
Bob Stewart
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. After all, the big regiment survives, does it not, whether it be the Royal Anglians or the Mercians? Two old regiments, however, would disappear by so doing. If the 3rd Mercians go, in the area represented by my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth, it will mean that the Staffords are finally dead; and if we say goodbye to the 3rd Royal Anglians, in the area represented by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), it will mean saying goodbye to the last relics of that historic and gallant regiment, the Essex Regiment.
Sir Bob Russell
I regret to say that the 3rd Battalion, Royal Anglian Regiment, the successor to the Essex Regiment, disappeared a few years ago. The 3rd Battalion that we have today is a Territorial Army battalion. We are very grateful that it is there, but it is not the Essex Regiment as it was.
Bob Stewart
I thank my hon. Friend for that correction, and I hope that he will forgive me for my slight inaccuracy. The principle remains the same,
I know that what I am talking about may seem parochial and somewhat petty to some people, and I accept that it can look like that to those who do not understand the regimental system; but to so many who have served, or whose family members have served, such cuts will mean another very sad day for British military history. The regimental system is a tremendous bulwark for frightened men in battle, and supports others like Lance Corporal William Bell of A Company, 1st Battalion The Cheshire Regiment, who was sustained and could even laugh at his predicament when he might have been in total despair. Truly the regimental system is a band of brothers, and I for one hope very much that it will not be damaged further by what is about to happen as a result of the SDSR. It is highly unlikely that, once gone, any regiment will live again.
Business of the House
Bob Russell Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Sir George Young
May I repeat what I said last night in congratulating the hon. Lady on her re-election? I am grateful to her for endorsing our decision to have a conventional pre-recess Adjournment debate next Thursday, to which my hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House will respond. She paid tribute to the outgoing members of the Backbench Business Committee. I am not sure whether it would enhance her reputation if I endorsed that, because the whole point of the Committee is to choose subjects that the Government would not normally have chosen, and it certainly did that under the previous regime. I look forward to working with her and newly elected colleagues during this Session, and to taking forward some of the ideas that we have shared about how we get some certainty into some of our conventional debates. I think she will understand that her party is slightly better placed than mine in being able to put Scottish Members on to the Committee. However, we have changed the Standing Orders to enable other Members to attend, and I hope that that is a move in the right direction.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
In a written parliamentary answer dated 8 March, I was told by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority:
“Under our publication scheme, we proactively publish the minutes of meetings of IPSA’s Board.”—[Official Report, 8 March 2012; Vol. 541, c. 839W.]
Thirty minutes ago, under the heading “Transparency—Minutes of board meetings”, the IPSA website revealed that the last recorded publicly accessible minutes were for its meeting on 30 January. Knowing how keen IPSA is on every i being dotted and every t being crossed, either it has not met for three months or it is not honouring what it should. Bearing in mind that a public consultation is going on as to what the public feel is the role of an MP, should we, as MPs, not have a debate on this?
Sir George Young
My hon. Friend is a member of the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, and he will know that on Tuesday morning there is a meeting between SCIPSA and IPSA—I am sorry about all these initials—where he will have an opportunity to put to the chairman of IPSA the question he has put to me. The chairman of IPSA will now have notice of what is coming and will have in his breast pocket the answer to the question, with specific details of when his board last met.
Business of the House
Bob Russell Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Sir George Young
I would hope that my hon. Friend will be broad-minded about this, in that there was success for Essex—
Sir George Young
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I am sorry if I misconstrued the same point when it was made a fortnight ago by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell). I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) on his election to the chair of that important group; I am sure it was done by secret ballot of Members from all parties and I commend the group for its work. It is important that the opening ceremony for the Olympics is taken as an opportunity to portray all that is good about the United Kingdom, and I agree that the elements the hon. Gentleman has identified should be part of that ceremony.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
The population of England is 52 million and the combined population of the other three countries in the UK is 10 million. Over the part 12 years, 11 places have been granted city status but only four have been English towns. May we have a debate on this discrimination against England and the extraordinary criteria used by the committee that came up with the conclusions, bearing in mind that in Wales, with only two applicants, a town with a population of 130,000 was deemed not appropriate to become a city of the 21st century whereas a small community with a population of 3,500 was? Where is the logic and sanity behind that decision?
Sir George Young
There are some questions that the Leader of the House is totally unable to begin to answer, and the turf war that has broken out in Essex is something that I do not want to venture into. I understand my hon. Friend’s disappointment that his town was not recognised, but I am sure that his town is proud that he now has a knighthood.
Charging for Access to Parliament
Bob Russell Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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John Thurso
I cannot update the hon. Lady on that point at this particular moment.
At a time of national austerity, when we are seeking to reduce the cost of public services to the taxpayer, it is absolutely right that Parliament and parliamentarians are in the vanguard. Indeed, it would be absolutely wrong to exempt ourselves from that process.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
I appreciate that my hon. Friend is trying to gain consensus, but I fear he is failing. I was on the Administration Committee, and I was bored to tears and managed to escape. May I ask him when the House agreed to the total savings programme that his Commission is forcing through?
John Thurso
The Commission put forward the overall figure of 17% savings in real terms during the summer of 2010. That figure informed all the documentation that has come out since, and it is the target. I actually hope that we can go further than that, because the process has demonstrated that many of the ways in which we do things have remained unchanged for many years, decades even. When they have been properly examined and re-engineered, it has been found that there are real and considerable savings to be made, not only monetary savings but increases in the efficiency of our work patterns.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
I do not normally involve myself in these sorts of debates—like a lot of hon. Members who do not read the relevant e-mails and so on—simply because I trusted in those who take responsibility to do the right thing for us. This might be a lesson to me: perhaps we should take more interest. The issue concerns the principles by which we should go about the fiscal discipline that the House has undertaken. I believe that, because of all the troubles and what has gone wrong in recent years, the House of Commons has decided to beat itself up significantly in all sorts of ways, and this is symbolic of the end product of that.
The principle being breached in this proposal is that hon. Members, when approached by their constituents, should always be able to arrange for them to tour this place, their Parliament, free of charge, accompanied either by their MP or a passholder on their behalf. The Commission should consider that important principle, regardless of whether the motion or the amendment is passed—although I do not know whether that can have the effect of directing the Commission to do anything, to be quite honest.
Sir Bob Russell
I am a long-serving Member of the House. When I arrived here in 1997 representing the premier borough in Essex, which I still do, visitors on tours were charged, but the House authorities dropped it because the administration costs were so great compared with the income.
Kevin Brennan
That is an interesting point. The arrangement that I am suggesting is more practical, which is in addition to the principle that Members should be able to help their constituents tour this place.
We have heard about other things that could be looked at if we are to stick to this 70% real-terms cut over the next few years, including the grace-and-favour apartments. Sometimes in this place, when a stone is lifted, one is staggered to find what is underneath. How many members of the public are aware that there are grace and favour apartments still lived in by Officers of the House? It is astonishing in the 21st century. There is little transparency or ventilation of such matters until something like this makes people prod further under the stone. The Commission should consider very seriously what Members have said about such arrangements.
It is important that people can come here, listen to our debates and see the House operating. It is also important that our constituents, particularly our younger constituents, can come here and understand the history of the constitution of this United Kingdom as expressed through these buildings. This is a modern, purposefully designed Parliament, albeit designed as a modern Parliament for the 1840s and 1850s. However, it was so designed to express our constitution, and I have found that the young people whom I show around this building have understood much better how our constitution works and what our democracy is all about. The very design of this place is a physical expression of the British constitution, and we should remember that. It is very important that our constituents can come here, free of charge, and have an opportunity to understand that.
This proposal is taking us in a dangerous direction. The Commission will see this as a fairly innocuous proposal to raise a bit of revenue, but my fear is that in a few years we will see the supreme irony in this place of huge corporate events and dinners for the bankers—the very people who put us in the mess that necessitates all this fiscal cutting. They will be the only people in here, having their swanky champagne parties and dinners in Westminster Hall or on the Terrace, while our constituents are charged simply for the privilege of looking around their own Parliament. That is where all this is headed. Whether we accept the amendment or the motion, the Commission needs to listen to the voices of people in the House and think again.
Business of the House
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Sir George Young
It has actually passed the House of Commons. I will not come to Huddersfield to explain how laws are passed in the House, because the hon. Gentleman can perfectly well do that himself. He knows full well that there are certain things that a Government can do once a Bill has received its Second Reading, and what we have done on the Health and Social Care Bill is absolutely consistent with actions taken by his party’s Government once Bills had received a Second Reading in the House of Commons.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
In view of a parliamentary answer that I received yesterday, may we have a debate on the independence of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority? I have discovered that over a three-month period, there were nine meetings of Ministers with IPSA, notably on 16 January when its chairman and chief executive met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the Leader of the House and the Minister for the Cabinet Office. The written answer states:
“We do not intend to provide further details of these meetings as to do so may inhibit free and frank discussions in the future.”—[Official Report, 28 February 2012; Vol. 541, c. 287W.]
In the interests of openness and transparency, and bearing in mind that one of the subjects discussed was MPs’ pensions, may we have a debate on the subject?
Sir George Young
I have regular meetings with the chairman and chief executive of IPSA, but on the subject of MPs’ pensions, the Government made their views perfectly clear last July when I tabled a motion, which was passed unanimously without Division in November. IPSA referred specifically to that resolution when it announced its proposals in the document that was published a few weeks ago.
Business of the House
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Sir George Young
I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s concern. I do not know whether this relates to the point of order he raised earlier in the week, which I was in my place to hear. Of course, I condemn harassment, victimisation and illegal activity wherever it occurs and will certainly draw his remarks to the attention of my ministerial colleagues and invite them to reply.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
May we have a debate on the Olympics, not on sporting matters, but on other matters related to the games, including the souvenirs, a large number of which are being sourced overseas? There are reports that the opening and closing ceremonies will exclude the traditional folk culture of the nations and the regions. Also, the railway line between Stratford and Liverpool Street station is in a state of dereliction, as I have informed the Leader of the House before, and is a negative showcase. An overarching approach is needed. Otherwise, this will be very negative for visitors to this country.
Sir George Young
If I understand my hon. Friend’s bid, he wants the opening ceremony of the Olympics to make specific reference to Colchester and its culture. Was that the thrust of his remarks? In which case, I say to him that we could all make similar bids on behalf of our constituencies. I am sure that the opening ceremony will do justice to the whole country, including Colchester, and that when he sees it he will be delighted.
Early-day Motions
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Graham Evans
I am most grateful for that intervention.
There is considerable and growing support from colleagues from both sides of this House for this issue to be looked at. Personally, I am very much open to debate on whether we simply abolish or dramatically reform early-day motions. I have had a number of conversations with colleagues and the staff of the Table Office and there are plenty of ideas floating around about how early-day motions can be improved. They must be made more cost-effective, but we could also look at limiting the number that an individual Member can table and sign in a single Parliament and perhaps guarantee that the few early-day motions with the most support are guaranteed to be debated.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
Following the hon. Gentleman’s theme, would he also put a limit on the number of parliamentary questions an MP could table?
Graham Evans
I am not sure what the answer is to that question. Perhaps we could discuss it over a cup of tea in the Tea Room later.
It might be possible to formalise the mechanism of early-day motions within the framework of the Backbench Business Committee. The hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) has suggested that Members should be able to add their name to only one early-day motion each week, with the most popular one being debated the following week. The remaining early-day motions would then fall off the agenda. That way, Members would be forced to think very carefully about which early-day motion to back, rather than mindlessly tabling and signing dozens at a time. Members would be most unlikely to want to waste their single early-day motion on something daft or a pro forma drafted by lobbyists.
As I mentioned, the current cost of EDMs could also be slashed dramatically. Last year, printing costs alone accounted for £776,000. On top of that, substantial staffing costs add up to more than £1 million a year. There is no need to print multiple copies of every EDM each sitting day. EDMs could be kept largely electronic, with paper lists printed only on request. That is nothing complicated, only common sense to help save the taxpayer substantial sums over the course of a Parliament.
I hope that I have set out a clear case why EDMs are unsustainable in their current form and how we might go about reforming them. I also hope that this debate will help inform constituents about the reality of EDMs. Perhaps many charities and businesses that spend millions hiring lobbyists will listen to tonight’s debate and be more sceptical when public affairs consultants try to convince them of their effectiveness by getting an EDM tabled. Most of all, I hope that members of the Procedure Committee are listening carefully and realise how much support there is for change. I urge them to consider EDMs carefully and begin the process of reform as soon as possible. If we get it right, we can improve Back-Bench Members’ ability to raise topical issues, get better value for taxpayers’ money and restore faith in the House. There is no better time than the present.
Mr Heath
If I may gently say so, I think there is a difference of kind between those causes, which I think most people would consider to be serious causes, and the fortunes of the local football club on a Saturday afternoon. I think there is a difference, perhaps, in scale of import between those topics.
Sir Bob Russell
Perhaps I can ask the Deputy Leader of the House to consider these examples: the Gurkha rights campaign and the Royal British Legion’s military covenant campaign, on which I tabled early-day motions, or indeed early-day motion 1—I think—in 2009, which I also tabled and which the then Conservative Opposition thought was so brilliant that they brought it to the House and we had a vote on it.
Mr Heath
There is no doubt that some early-day motions are of considerable importance in the topics they raise. What I think the hon. Member for Weaver Vale was saying is that there may be better ways of bringing those matters to the House than the current system. There are also things that, frankly, I would be amazed if the House spent its time debating in real life, as opposed to the application that an early-day motion purports to be.
There are ways in which the issue could be dealt with. The hon. Gentleman suggested that limits might be imposed on the number of early-day motions that an individual Member could table or sign. Those are matters for the Procedure Committee to consider, should it decide to do so, but numerical limits, which were also suggested in an intervention, might be seen as an unexceptional constraint on hon. Members’ freedom of action. The implementation of a limit might encourage the syndication of motions. Limits would certainly provide an incentive for hon. Members to ensure that they used their right to table or support motions wisely, but at a cost, in terms of the limitation of their action.
Business of the House
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Sir George Young
The Government will respond in due course to the Health Committee report that was published on Monday, and the House will debate the remaining stages of the Health and Social Care Bill when it completes its passage in another place. I think that my right hon. Friend was perfectly entitled to defend the Government’s view on the radio and elsewhere on Monday, and of course he will continue to be held accountable in the House at Question Time and in Opposition day debates, which were also described as “thumb twiddling” by the hon. Member for Wallasey.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
May we have a debate on the charitable not-for-profit sector to deal with what has been described to me as the “Tescofication” of the sector, which is contrary to the big society and localism? For example, Ormiston children and families trust, which operates across the east of England, is about to lose seven of its Sure Start centres in my constituency because Barnardo’s has come in and hoovered it up.
Sir George Young
I am sorry to hear of the potential loss of Sure Start centres in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I would be happy to pursue the issue with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, who is anxious to build on the Sure Start initiatives and extend the help that they offer to many people.
Business of the House
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Sir George Young
I announced a few minutes ago that there would be a debate on Network Rail, which I very much hope will provide an opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to pursue his legitimate constituency interests. We will set out the infrastructure investment that we are putting into the railway system, including new carriages, investment in new lines and increases in capacity, which I hope he will welcome.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
The Royal Bank of Scotland was bailed out with billions of pounds of public money, saving thousands of RBS jobs, presumably including those of the people who currently run it. However, RBS is pushing Peacocks department stores, which account for 700 shops and 10,000 jobs, towards administration. Is it not the role of the Government to intervene, when they own the bank, and can we have a debate on that?
Sir George Young
I understand my hon. Friend’s concern about the future of Peacocks, but I would be cautious about the Government intervening and trying to micro-manage lending decisions, which are best taken by the banks. There will be an opportunity to raise the issue of bank bonuses on Monday, but I shall draw his concerns about the future of Peacocks to the attention of the Business Secretary to see whether there is any action we can take to minimise the pain.