Obesity and Fatty Liver Disease

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ben Coleman

Tuesday 28th October 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Efford. I congratulate the hon. Member for Worthing West (Dr Cooper) on securing this important debate, and I thank the British Liver Trust and others who provided information and reading material in advance of today’s debate.

Fatty liver disease, as has been said, is often asymptomatic in its early stages. Even when symptoms do occur, they can initially be non-specific symptoms such as tiredness and feeling generally unwell. Initially, the fat deposits in the liver; in the next stage the fat causes inflammation, which causes metabolic dysfunction-associated steatohepatitis. It can then progress to fibrosis and then cirrhosis. As mentioned earlier, liver deaths have increased substantially in the last 50 years, but early detection can help to prevent them. What is the Minister doing to ensure that liver function tests and fibroscans are more available? Does she regret having to delay her workforce plan? Will that have an impact on the treatment of liver disease?

As many have said, fatty liver disease is caused by obesity. Two thirds of adults are now overweight or obese, but obesity starts in childhood. As an NHS consultant paediatrician, I have in my time seen a 12-year-old weighing 120 kg and a nine-year-old weighing over 90 kg—around three times the weight of an average nine-year-old. That has a serious cost in terms of life expectancy, taking three to 10 years off a person’s life. It also has an economic cost to the state of about £11.4 billion on the NHS, estimated at £75 billion per year when taking into account the wider economic factors.

We all know someone who has struggled with their weight and who has had huge success recently, including Members of this House who have talked about it in other debates, using Ozempic, Wegovy or Mounjaro. That is great, but do we want a future where a substantial proportion of the population are dependent on medication to maintain their weight?

[Ben Coleman]

If I may bring the hon. Member back to childhood obesity, does she agree that there is a serious problem with sugar being pumped into so much baby food? Does she therefore welcome what the Government have finally done after many years of the issue’s sitting unaddressed? They are giving the industry 18 months to take the sugar out of baby food and to stop marketing basically unhealthy products, which no one should buy, as healthy or healthier. Does she welcome what the Government are doing here?

[Dr Johnson]

I certainly think it is wise to ensure that people get off to a good start in infancy and that unhealthy products are not advertised as healthy if they are not, although the definition of healthy is somewhat elusive and difficult to pin down. It is also important that we do not routinely feed little babies under one high-sugar foods, although I do not want to see them fed artificial sweeteners, either. It is about making things less sweet, so the reformulation will need to be done carefully. That is my personal view.

Going back to the medications, we know they can be very helpful for some and can improve their health. They may be able to help with fatty liver disease as well, although they are not licensed yet. Can the Minister update us on when the Government expect applications to be approved and whether the NHS is ready to deliver for all eligible patients? We have heard about the prevalence and burden of the condition across the country and the number of people affected. What is she doing to ensure that the NHS is ready so that, when these drugs are licensed, it has the capacity, workforce and money to provide them?

We have seen that drug prices can change quite dramatically. In August, Eli Lilly announced a huge price increase for Mounjaro. What plans does the Minister have to guard against that? Will she update the House on negotiations on the voluntary scheme for branded medicines pricing and access?

We understand she is reviewing the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence quality threshold; when does she plan to reach a conclusion? We have seen investment in this country’s life sciences sector by companies such as Merck and AstraZeneca being withdrawn from the United Kingdom or paused due to the environment created by the Government. We need urgent action to support that sector. Will the Minister update the House on discussions she has had with industry and the Treasury on that?

Medications are part of the issue, but there are also surgical implications. Many people who have lost large quantities of weight require surgery for excess skin, which can cause further medical problems. What is the Minister doing to ensure there is an assessment of demand for post-weight loss surgery? Are surgeons and capacity available to deliver it where medically indicated?

As many have said, prevention is better than cure. We know that fewer than one in three people eat five portions of fruit and veg a day, and that that is falling. We also know that starting early is important and have talked about children and infants. What is the Minister doing to ensure that school food is healthy and good for children? What work is she doing with the Department for Education on food choices and preparation, particularly advice on food that can be made in advance or quickly? We know that many young people will become adults in households where there are two working parents, where one of the largest challenges is not just the money needed to buy food, but the time required after returning from work to prepare and deliver it to children before they do their homework and go to bed.

We have talked about reformulation. The soft drinks industry levy has reduced sugar per 100 ml by 47.4%, but I am concerned that is leading to an increase in artificial sweeteners rather than a reduction in the sweetness of the product, ultimately meaning that people are still hooked on the sweetness. What does the Minister think of that? Some hon. Members talked about the advertising ban on less healthy food. Will the Minister tell us why that has been delayed until next year?

Why have the Government added the brand exemption? Do they think the addition of the brand exemption will make it harder for new market entrants, compared with well established brands? If I whistled the short tune for one food brand—I will not—it would be immediately recognised, without further introduction. That would be more difficult for advertising new entrants to the market.

The 10-year plan talks about mandatory healthy food sales reporting. Will the Minister update us on what she defines as healthy? There are also mandatory targets on healthiness of sales. What does that mean and when will it be implemented? We understand there is a planned update to the nutrient profile. Some are concerned that the free sugars that that includes mean that items such as date paste will fall under unhealthy sugars. Will the Minister provide information on that? Has she made an assessment of the Conservative Government’s step of informing people by adding calories to menus? What effect has that had on consumption and food portion sizes in the restaurant sector?

Exercise is also important. We know that physical exercise strengthens joints, increases weight loss and helps in the reduction of diabetes, depression and dementia. The previous Government gave £1 billion to support the sports and leisure industry during the pandemic so that it could continue, and had a school sports action plan, guaranteeing at least two hours of PE and supporting after-school clubs.

The current Government have pledged £400 million for new sports facilities, but delivery of that money seems to be at a standstill. Will the Minister update us on that? Many grassroots sports facilities need that money. Will she also update the House on what the Government are doing to improve girls’ attendance in sports? We know that teenage girls in particular are not taking the advised amount of exercise.

In summary, we need an NHS pathway to detect liver disease in the early stages so that it can be treated; an NHS that is ready to deliver the new treatments that are becoming available; and action to tackle obesity to prevent liver disease in the first place. There has been an emphasis throughout the debate on what the Government can do to prevent obesity and on state culpability in that regard. It is important that people recognise that they have agency and do not need to wait for the Government to do something about this. People do not need to wait for the soft drinks industry levy or for changes to regulations. They have the agency to help themselves; they can do that.

[Ben Coleman]

Will the hon. Member accept that there is now a general body of opinion that it is time to stop blaming people for not having the willpower not to eat bad food when they are constantly bombarded with advertising and marketing? Some £6.4 billion a year will be spent by the food industry on advertising and marketing to people, and in many areas it is very difficult to get food that is both affordable and healthy. Is it not time to stop blaming people for being fat and to support them to tackle obesity in the ways that I and many of my hon. Friends here have described? Is it not time to stop sticking up for the food industry and to start sticking up for ordinary people?

[Dr Johnson]

I do not think it is sticking up for the food industry to suggest that people have agency over what they eat. I will give an example. I saw a very small patient—about five years old—who was very obese. I asked the mum what sort of things the child was being fed, and the answer was, “Well, Doctor, he eats lots of crisps all the time.” But there is a simple point there: where was he getting those crisps from? He was getting the crisps from the cupboard without asking, but the crisps did not get in the cupboard because the five-year-old put them there. It is a question of making sure that what is available is healthy and what is being fed to children is healthy.

I have seen even in the last few weeks patients who have low vitamin D levels, critically low vitamin B12 levels and critically low iron levels as a result of the diet that they are getting. It is not just a case of, “It’s all the Government’s fault. The state must make sure that everyone eats healthily.” People have a responsibility of their own as well. This is about working together.

There are wider policy impacts as well. The hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman) talked about food pricing and food security. This Government want to cover Lincolnshire—the breadbasket of the UK, where a third of the country’s fruit and vegetables are produced—in glass solar panels. That is what his Government want to do, so there is a wider policy framework about food affordability. Food inflation is going up hugely under this Government, so they need to look in the mirror and see what they are doing to reduce food prices for people. We need to work together: it is a combination of what the Government can do and what the individual can do.

Hospitals

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ben Coleman

Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Johnson]

The previous Secretary of State made it clear that the hospital was fully funded and would be built. What has changed since then is that we have a new Government who made the choice not to build it. These are choices that the new Government must own.

When the Government came to power, the Secretary of State commissioned the Darzi review, which highlighted the need for more capital investment in the NHS, but decided not to prioritise the delivery of the new hospitals. To govern is to choose, and the Secretary of State has chosen not to deliver the hospitals. We set out our commitment to delivering them on time, with the agreement of the then Chancellor. Of course, spending decisions cannot be made for a future Parliament, but the Secretary of State has chosen not to make the same commitment.

[Ben Coleman]

It may be helpful I correct a couple of “facts” that the hon. Lady has given. In his election literature, my predecessor as Member of Parliament for Chelsea and Fulham made the clear statement that he had secured the funds for the rebuilding and refurbishment of Charing Cross hospital. When I spoke to the chief executive of the hospital, he said that he had received no such reassurance from the Government, and on coming to power we found that no money had been set aside for the guaranteed refurbishment.

Moreover, this did not just apply to Charing Cross hospital. Across the country, the last Government’s claims to have found the funding were discovered not to be true when we came to power. The right hon. Member for Melton and Syston (Edward Argar), who is talking to the hon. Lady at the moment, lives in my constituency, so he is well aware of the accuracy of what I am saying. [Laughter.] I know; I will get complaints about the bins again now. Would the hon. Lady like to reflect on the accuracy of what she is saying, in the light of the facts as I have set them out?

[Dr Johnson]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is not correct. The previous Government, and the previous Chancellor, made a clear commitment to providing the money, and to the hospital building project, but the current Government have not chosen to meet that commitment. These are choices that are being made. For now, patients and staff are being denied the quality facilities that they have deserved for decades. For some hospitals, construction work will not even begin until 2039. Will the Minister write to me, giving the date on which each hospital will be completed?

We can see the Labour Government’s lack of ambition. There are 40 hospitals in waves 1 to 3 of their programme—40 hospitals over 15 years—but there are 515 acute, specialist and community hospitals in England. At this pace, the replacement of the NHS estate will require a cycle of nearly 200 years. That is the equivalent of a hospital built in 1825 not being replaced until this year. That is Labour’s ambitious programme.

We can all see the pressures facing the Chancellor as her economic mismanagement hits the country. We cannot tax our way to growth. Perhaps that is yet another reason why growth forecasts have been cut yet again. How do we know that Labour will not come for those already delayed new hospitals in a year or two, and that there will not be further delays or cancellations? The Government have made it clear that the new hospitals are not their priority. Will the Minister give us that guarantee?

Access to Primary Healthcare

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ben Coleman

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

As a doctor myself, I wish to start by recognising the substantial work ethic and expertise of my primary care colleagues and thank them for all that they do.

Saying what is wrong with the NHS is very easy; solving problems takes much longer and is far more difficult. Rather than the next few hours being filled with constructive ideas, I expect that we will simply hear complaints about the challenges faced by the NHS, perhaps some party political jibes and a wish list of promises and the things that people want to see, but no concrete plans on how to deliver them beyond more money. I hope that I am wrong about that, but I suspect that I am not.

Our NHS is facing significant challenges. We have an ageing population with more complex health needs, a rising demand for services and a rapidly growing population. We also have the legacy from the pandemic, which many are quick to forget. Although we were the first country to deliver a vaccine, there are many persistent problems stemming from the pandemic. Let me give the House an example. Before the pandemic, in 2019, there were 54 women who had been waiting more than a year to see a gynaecologist, but due to the reduction in elective activity during the lockdown, by the time the pandemic was over that number was more than 40,000. This is, of course, replicated across other medical specialties. Although my secondary care colleagues have been working extremely hard to reduce those numbers—and, indeed, they have fallen—the individuals concerned will, on average, visit their GPs more while they are waiting and that inevitably puts more pressure on primary care services.

The simple truth is that we gave the NHS more money than it has ever had and, as a result, it has delivered more clinical activity than ever before, but the ageing population, the rising demand for services and the legacy of the pandemic have meant that, in places, that has not been enough. Many people are not being seen as quickly as we would want them to be.

The previous Labour Administration did not do enough to train new doctors, and the reality is that we cannot train one overnight. The Conservative Government built five new medical schools, and the graduates of those medical schools have recently started work. The Secretary of State says that he will double the number of medical students. That is an item on his wish list with which I agree, but I do have a few questions. Will he build new medical schools, expand the old ones, or do both? If he is going to build new ones, where will he build them? [Interruption.] The Minister for Secondary Care is talking about primary care. I believe that doctors are a part of primary care.

The UCAS deadline to apply for most medical school places to start next autumn was yesterday, so when does the Secretary of State expect these new places to be available and those new students to start? On the broader primary care workforce, we expanded the number of primary care professionals in GP practices, such as dietitians and physiotherapists, and we delivered 50 million more GP appointments last year than in 2019. We also saw the launch of Pharmacy First, which delivered more care in the community while easing pressure on GP appointments. I was pleased to hear the Liberal Democrat spokesman acknowledge the success and the benefits of that programme.

I have a few questions for the Secretary of State. The Conservatives produced the first NHS workforce plan. Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he will proceed with those plans or write a new one? What are the timescales for his plan? In the spring Budget, we had the NHS productivity plan, with £3.4 billion to improve NHS productivity. Does the right hon. Gentleman still intend to follow that? The Minister for Secondary Care said that she was recruiting 1,000 GPs. Can the Secretary of State tell us how many have been recruited so far?

The Secretary of State and I also agree on the ability of technology to improve NHS services.

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

As a new Member, I am learning how this place works, so I am interested to see how much you expect the Labour Government to have achieved in 100 days. Why is it, after 14 years, that you left the country with the longest waiting lists ever and small children having to get their rotten teeth seen at A&E? What can you say that is helpful to us in understanding why the failure of 14 years of Conservatism took place, and do you feel any remorse about that?

NHS Performance: Darzi Investigation

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ben Coleman

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

I am mindful of the need to be brief, but I wish to congratulate the hon. Members for South Norfolk (Ben Goldsborough), for South West Norfolk (Terry Jermy), for Esher and Walton (Monica Harding), for Gloucester (Alex McIntyre), for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire (Ian Sollom), for Mid Dunbartonshire (Susan Murray), and for Basingstoke (Luke Murphy) on excellent maiden speeches.

When I first heard that the Government had commissioned Lord Darzi to conduct a report on the NHS I wondered two things: why has this report been commissioned, and why has a former Labour Minister been asked to do it? The answer to the first question is still somewhat unclear after this debate. Much of the information is publicly available, and Labour had access to the civil service for six months before the general election, as is routine to help with planning. Before the election, in its manifesto Labour claimed to have a plan, and the Secretary of State said that he and the Government have a 10-year plan to reform and modernise the NHS. In the draft speech that I brought to this debate I was going to say that I assume that is the case, so where is that plan and when will it be published, but during the debate the Secretary of State said that he will soon meet to engage with patients and staff who will write the plan. Does it exist, or is it yet to be written? Given that Lord Darzi specifies that policy suggestions are outside the remit of his report, and notwithstanding the amount of time and dedication he has put into it, what primary purpose does it serve? Is it simply a political statement to cover the right hon. Gentleman’s plan and an increase in taxes in the Budget when it comes?

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Dr Johnson]

I will not because there is not much time. A potential answer to the second question of why a former Labour Minister has been asked to conduct the report is its silence on a number of issues, for example on increasing the number of medical students. I could not find any reference in the report to the five additional medical schools that were commissioned and opened by the former Conservative Government, and whose first new doctors have recently graduated. Indeed, I found no mention of the NHS workforce plan at all.

My constituency mailbag, no doubt much like that of Members across the House, is full of letters from elderly people who are frightened that their homes will be cold this winter, and that they will become ill, or perhaps even die, as a result. It is notable—again, perhaps this answers my second question—that despite being published two months after the Government’s announcement about the winter fuel allowance, the Darzi report appears to be silent on the subject. The chief medical officer said that,

“cold homes and fuel poverty are directly linked to excess winter deaths”

in his annual report from 2023. Is it remarkable that this report by a former Labour Minister does not mention cold homes? Perhaps it does not recognise the impact of such a decision because no impact assessment has been made.

On 29 July, I asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate she had made of the impact that her winter fuel payment changes would have on the NHS. Her answer implied to me that that was something that had not been given enough consideration. On 5 September I submitted a written question to the Secretary of State, asking whether he would make an assessment of the winter fuel payment changes on a range of factors relating to the NHS and the health of elderly people, including hospital admissions, deaths, GP appointments and so on. The answer to whether he will do something or not is clearly “yes”, “no”, or “I have already done it”, but it seems the Government struggled to answer that question and I would be grateful if the Minister could do so today: will the Secretary of State make an assessment of the various effects of the changes to the winter fuel allowance and the consequent cold homes on the NHS and the health of elderly people?

Earlier, the Secretary of State said that investment without reform would reduce productivity. He even said that it was “killing with kindness.” Actions, however, speak louder than words, so what substantial productivity gains come with the junior doctors’ 22% pay rise? None. What productivity benefits arise from a significant increase in the wages for train drivers? None. The NHS and the Government are now facing potential future industrial action from groups seeking similar pay deals. The Government’s willingness to take money from pensioners and give it to already well-paid train drivers suggests that such union demands will be successful, further creating a vicious cycle of industrial action that will ultimately be damaging to patients.

I fear that the Labour party sees the Darzi report as a political bludgeon rather than as a blueprint for any meaningful reform. There are undeniable challenges within the NHS—something that I as a doctor see—and we must be honest about them, but instead of a constructive conversation on policy, Labour brings partisan attacks to the table. We now need real leadership, specific reforms, and the courage to make the tough decisions that will keep the NHS suitable for generations to come.