Oral Answers to Questions

Catherine McKinnell Excerpts

Monday 28th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Louie French (Old Bexley and Sidcup) (Con)]

14. What estimate she has made of the potential impact of increases in employer’s national insurance contributions on the number of teachers employed in schools.

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

The Tories left a trail of devastation across our schools, with buildings crumbling and teachers leaving in their droves. Through taking tough decisions at the Budget to fix the foundations, Labour has been able to increase school funding by over £3.2 billion. As a result, there is a forecast of £400 million of headroom in schools’ budgets nationally. The Tories’ only plan is to cut school budgets to restore private schools’ tax breaks. We are getting on with the job of delivering for children.

[Mr Holden]

Many heads, teachers and support staff who are worried about school budgets have been in touch with me. I recently had a letter, which was sent to the Secretary of State, from a therapist in a school, saying:

“I have recently been informed that I am being made redundant. Most of the schools in the trust are making cuts in order to stay afloat. Staff that are being cut or having hours reduced are teaching assistants, social, emotional and mental health staff and other support staff.”

How would the Minister answer the question posed by my constituent who is being made redundant, who asks:

“Why have Labour voted for unfunded pay rises and National Insurance Tax increases if they cannot support schools with the cost”

of these proposals?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The Government are committed to supporting teachers to stay in the profession and to thrive, which is why we accepted the schoolteachers pay review body 2024-25 recommendation in full, implementing a 5.5% pay award. That means that teachers and school leaders have had a combined increase of 17% over the last three years. We really need some humility from Conservative Members about where these problems stem from.

[James Wild]

Headteachers are warning that the gap in funding to cover the Chancellor’s jobs tax is equivalent to losing more existing teachers than the Government are planning to recruit. I have heard that message loud and clear from headteachers on my recent school visits, and unfunded pay awards will just make this worse. Why is the Education Secretary not standing up for our schools?

[Catherine McKinnell]

This Labour Government have made some tough decisions to fix the foundations of our economy and our public services. We make no apologies for doing what the last Government failed to do while in office. The extra money from national insurance contributions means we can protect key educational priorities. The Conservatives should be honest: what would they cut to pay for our schools?

[Dr Shastri-Hurst]

Can the Minister solve this equation? VAT is pushing more students into the state sector and increases in national insurance are squeezing staff budgets, yet the Government say their ambition is to improve school standards and staff retention. How does that add up?

[Catherine McKinnell]

This is just scaremongering from the Conservative party, because the Tories have no plan for the future of our education system. They have no plan to deliver high and rising standards. Their only education priority is to hand tax breaks back to private schools, which means cutting free breakfast clubs, cutting school-based nurseries and cutting school building.

[Mr French]

I have been contacted by schools in my Old Bexley and Sidcup constituency that are outraged that Labour’s tax rises are forcing them to cut resources and staff while the Government demand that teachers do more. One teacher told me that, as a proud trade unionist, she had always voted Labour, but feels completely betrayed. She says:

“Labour have made the situation in schools 10x worse letting students and teachers down”.

She is right, is she not? Labour has betrayed teachers, students and schools.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Schools funding is increasing by over £3.2 billion compared with 2024-25, meaning that core school budgets will total over £64.8 billion this year. The last Government sat on the pay review recommendations, leaving it for this Government to clean up. The Conservative party’s record on education was dismal; school buildings were crumbling and teachers were leaving the profession. This Government are focused on returning education to the centre of public life.

[Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)]

I recently met student councillors Aadam, Olivia, Adam and Remy at Fixby junior and infant school. They gave me a guided tour of the school and highlighted how the playground was long overdue for an upgrade, but the school is facing increasing costs to resurface it. On behalf of the student council, can I ask the Minister what additional funding and support is available so that pupils can access high-quality play areas?

[Catherine McKinnell]

We absolutely support children to have the ability to play, and that is really important in school as well. We understand that some schools require additional support. We are working closely with the sector to ensure the best outcomes for all children, not just some children, as the previous Government focused on.

[Steve Yemm (Mansfield) (Lab)]

Local Conservative council candidates in Mansfield say on the doorstep that they want better funding for our schools. However, in the pursuit of restoring private schools’ tax breaks, which of these measures does the Minister think the Tories would cut first: new teachers, speech and language support, mental health counsellors, careers advice or work experience?

[Catherine McKinnell]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I can save the Minister. That question is about Opposition policy, which is not her responsibility.

[Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

I am deeply concerned about the funding of Howden-le-Wear primary school in my constituency. After years of real-terms cuts, it is now making four teaching assistants redundant. I will write to the Minister on that to seek her support, but the elephant in the room is that the pay of the chief executive of the multi-academy trust of which it is a member has increased £30,000 over the last two years, taking it to £275,000. That is the equivalent of 12 teaching assistants. Which does she think would be better: one CEO or 12 teaching assistants?

[Catherine McKinnell]

Executive pay must be justifiable and must reflect the responsibility an individual takes on, alongside local retention and recruitment needs. We engage with trusts on levels of executive pay, and I would be more than happy to discuss the matter further with my hon. Friend.

[Joe Morris (Hexham) (Lab)]

I am deeply concerned about Prudhoe community high school in my constituency, which was opened eight and a half years ago after being built under a Conservative Secretary of State and Conservative Education Department. Unfortunately, in February this year, cracks were discovered in the structure and the students are being taught in Washington, which is quite a significant journey. Can I ask the Minister to not only back the students and staff at Prudhoe community high school, but have an urgent investigation into how the school got into this state? Does she agree that, after 100 years in charge, the legacy of the Tories in west Northumberland is crumbling?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I absolutely recognise the challenges Prudhoe community high school is facing, in particular those due to sit their GCSE and A-level exams. I wish good luck to them and to all young people who over the Easter holidays have been working very hard towards their exams. Officials have been working closely with the school to ensure they are accommodated in the right way, but my hon. Friend raises a really important point about how a school built eight years ago is crumbling, and indeed all the schools across the country that are crumbling, after 14 years of a Tory Government that did not prioritise education.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con)]

Not only has the Education Secretary introduced a Bill to this place that will destroy standards in English schools, but now she has broken her promises on national insurance contributions compensation and is leaving schools in an impossible funding situation. Every MP has heard from headteachers who are stressed beyond belief at how to manage their funding. Can the Secretary of State guarantee that worried headteachers up and down the country will not have to make teachers redundant because of her broken promises: yes or no?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The right hon. Lady has a firmer grip on anonymous briefings in the papers than on the details of the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill. She is more focused on petty political games in Westminster than on improving the lives of children and families up and down the country. The Bill will get qualified teachers in front of classrooms. It will teach a cutting-edge curriculum. It will drive down the costs of sending children to school. It will provide breakfast clubs for children who need them. It will stop vulnerable children falling through the cracks. It is a single most important piece of child protection legislation in a generation. The Conservatives voted against it. They can snipe from the sidelines; we will get on with delivering change.

[Mr Speaker]

Let us have another marathon runner to ask the next question.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

6. What steps she is taking to help increase the number of teachers trained in the provision of SEND education.

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

Improving the quality of teaching is the best way to drive up standards in schools, which is why the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill will get expert teachers in front of the classroom, driving high and rising standards. We are improving teacher training so that teachers are equipped to properly support pupils with SEND to achieve and thrive, but we know there is more to do. We are paving the way for far-reaching reforms through our plan for change.

[Tim Farron]

I thank the Minister for her reply. Two excellent teachers in my constituency—both experts in special educational needs provision—set up an organisation called the Mighty Oak Initiative, whose work is focused on helping young people with special educational needs who are not attending school at the moment, either not fully or at all. Its work is exemplary. Would the Minister meet Mighty Oak and myself to look at how we can support the organisation, learn from what it does and apply it elsewhere so that young people with special educational needs can get the best out of their educational experience, rather than being left on the sidelines?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and congratulate him on being on his feet after running the London marathon. We are absolutely committed to improving attendance rates of all children, but particularly those with SEND, and to addressing challenges in the school setting to ensure that children have the support to achieve and thrive. I would be happy to engage with him on any good practice in this area that can support us in our endeavours.

[Baggy Shanker (Derby South) (Lab/Co-op)]

In Derby, like in so many communities across the country, we face a lack of available SEND school placements with appropriately trained teachers. In ’23-24 alone, Derby city council spent £18 million on placements outside the city. It is wrong that pupils and their families are not getting the support that they need in their communities. Will the Minister outline what steps the Government are taking to increase the availability of SEND school places in Derby, in the east midlands and across the UK?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The Secretary of State had a useful and interesting visit to a school in Derbyshire to see for herself where progress is being made—or, unfortunately, where not enough is being made—to support children with SEND. We know that high-quality teacher training, particularly in SEND, is vital to ensure that every teacher is a teacher of special educational needs and disabilities. We will continue to work to ensure that local authorities deliver on their obligations to all the children in their local area, but particularly those with special educational needs and disabilities.

[Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

There are significant gaps in the understanding of autism profiles from teachers and school support staff. The evidence shows that there will be massive benefits in school attendance and educational performance if that understanding can increase. I urge the Secretary of State and the team to ask the specialist neurodiversity group that they have set up to look specifically at initial teacher training to see whether more autism-focused elements can be added.

[Catherine McKinnell]

This work is already ongoing. I recognise what the right hon. Gentleman is saying—we want to ensure that every teacher gets that high-quality training from their initial teacher training to their first years in a school to ensure that they are confident and able to teach children of a whole range of abilities. We are determined to have the right number of teachers with those skilled professional qualifications so that they are able to thrive in the profession, and, indeed, to support children to thrive, too.

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)]

17. What steps her Department is taking to help ensure that SEND children are being adequately assessed.

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

Colleagues across the House will know about the “lose, lose, lose” system—to use the Tories’ own words—that we inherited. We are investing an extra £1 billion into high-needs budgets, £740 million into creating new places, and have restructured the Department to put SEND at its heart. The system needs far-reaching reform. We are engaging with parents and we have brought experts on board to assist us in this important work.

[Mr Kohler]

Merton council, in which most of my Wimbledon constituency is situated, tells me that there is a national shortage of SEND specialists— therapists and educational psychologists in particular—which is negatively impacting its and other local authorities’ ability to produce education, health and care plans in a timely fashion. This seems to be a particular problem across London, where in more than a decade there has been almost no growth in the number of local authority-employed educational psychologists, despite a large increase in demand. Will the Minister update the House on plans to address this issue and meet me to discuss the particular challenges in London?

[Catherine McKinnell]

We know that local authorities have been impacted by the increasing demand for education, health and care plans and workforce capacity issues, so much more efficient and effective service delivery and communication with schools and families will be central to making those improvements. We are working with local authorities and across the Department to ensure that there is as much effective early identification as possible. I am more than happy to continue engagement with the hon. Gentleman on these important issues.

[Helen Maguire]

I often hear accounts of constituents waiting over two years for education, health and care plan assessments from Surrey county council. When those assessments finally come, they are frequently carried out remotely, with assessors never actually meeting the child. Headteachers report that these delayed and inaccurate assessments result in inadequate funding, leaving schools under-resourced and simply unable to meet the children’s needs. Families in Surrey deserve assessments that are timely, thorough and centred around the child. What reassurances can the Minister offer families in Surrey that the broken system will be fixed, and when?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The hon. Lady sets out what is unfortunately a common picture for far too many children and families. We know that the system needs reform, and we are working at pace to deliver on that. We are working with experts and engaging with families and local authorities. We are determined to deliver a better outcome for children with special educational needs and disabilities and their families, and we will continue to update on progress as we make it.

[Jen Craft (Thurrock) (Lab)]

School support staff, teaching assistants and learning support assistants—the unsung heroes of our schools—often provide that crucial day-to-day support for children with SEND. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that we upskill our school support workforce so that they are best placed to support those children?

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to recognise the role of school support staff in supporting schools in general, and particularly children within the school system with special educational needs and disabilities. We want to encourage more inclusive mainstream schools, and we need a really strong and qualified workforce to deliver on that. I recently visited a school that had a fantastic group of teaching assistants who are undertaking the apprenticeship and specialising in issues such as special educational needs, to make sure that they can continue to develop their skills in the workforce. That is a really positive story, and one that I hope many schools can take up.

[Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

My constituent, Martyn Hodgson, has two adopted children. Both have suffered extensive trauma in their short lives, and the oldest son was diagnosed with autism and learning disabilities. They rely on the adoption and special guardianship support fund. He says:

“This support means so much to families of looked-after and adopted children. As a children’s social worker and adoptive parent, I have seen at first hand the impact this funding can have on their lives.”

For Martyn and so many others like him in Hartlepool and beyond, please will the Minister urgently reconsider the cuts to this fund?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I absolutely take on board the issues that my hon. Friend raises. Where people take on the responsibility of adoption, that is to be applauded and supported as far as possible. The Government are obviously considering all the financial matters in a very difficult context and making some difficult decisions, but we will continue to bear in mind the issues that he raises. We want to maximise the number of children who can access the fund and get the vital support that is needed.

[Chris Ward (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven) (Lab)]

12. What steps she is taking to protect freedom of speech at universities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Josh Newbury (Cannock Chase) (Lab)]

13. What assessment she has made of the adequacy of levels of funding for pupil referral units.

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

My hon. Friend is a champion for young people with SEND and their families in his constituency. The Government have invested an extra £1 billion into high needs budgets to help local authorities to maintain their pupil referral units. Of course, the system we inherited from the Conservatives is broken, but we are paving the way for far-reaching reform to restore parents’ confidence and to support every child to achieve and thrive.

[Josh Newbury]

I recently visited Chaselea alternative provision academy in Cannock and met headteacher Mr Archer, who told me that it receives £8,300 less per pupil than the average for PRUs due to the unfair funding formula. With year after year of real-terms funding cuts under the previous Government, Chaselea had to stop all off-site education and halt new admissions, which means longer stays for students. Will the Minister confirm that this Government will ensure that PRUs have the resources and support they need to do the vital work of helping young people return to mainstream education?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I agree that it is important that funding is available to support young people back into mainstream education. Staffordshire county council is being allocated, through the high needs funding block, over £143 million of its 2025-26 dedicated schools grant, and will need to consider how best to deploy that funding to achieve this aim. I know that my hon. Friend’s constituents will be best served by a Labour council delivering on this issue and will want to think about that ahead of this Thursday.

[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

My constituent—a child who attends alternative provision—was physically restrained by his passenger assistant on school transport, which caused significant distress to him and his family. The Department for Education has published guidance on the use of reasonable force in schools in England, but it appears that there is a gap when it comes to the use of reasonable force on school transport. Will the Minister meet my constituent and me to discuss this case with a view to closing this loophole with the funding that it requires?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point, and it is one that we are looking at as a Department. Obviously, home-to-school transport is an important aspect of accessing education, but it needs to be safe for all children. I would be more than happy to discuss the issue further with him.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

15. What recent assessment she has made of the adequacy of higher education funding.

--- Later in debate ---

[Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)]

T7. National per pupil funding criteria are a blunt instrument for fairly funding schools in rural areas like mine on the Isle of Wight, which is also separated from the UK mainland by sea. Will the Minister meet me and representatives from the Isle of Wight council to discuss how fairer funding for Isle of Wight primary schools can be provided so that no more of them close unnecessarily?

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

I appreciate the concerns that the hon. Gentleman raises. I know that the Isle of Wight local authority is working to address the issue of surplus primary places in the best way. I recognise the challenge around funding. It will take some time to look at that, but the system is designed not to give every school the same amount of money but to address some of the needs that he outlines. I am more than happy to continue this discussion, as I appreciate the issue is very important in his constituency.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)]

Has the Department made an estimate of how many children with SEND are at risk of losing therapeutic support as a result of the recent changes to the adoption and special guardianship support fund?

[Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)]

I recently had the opportunity to visit Echelford primary school in my constituency, where I saw an extraordinarily different approach to oracy from those I have seen in other schools. Will the schools Minister visit to see that for herself?

[Catherine McKinnell]

We are always looking for good approaches to raising standards, whether in phonics, maths or oracy, and to giving children the confidence that will set them up for life. I would be keen to hear more details about the programme that the hon. Gentleman describes.

[Chris Webb (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

I have recently been informed that teaching assistants employed through agencies in Blackpool are being paid under the national living wage and sent into schools with positive Disclosure and Barring Service checks, and that the profit margins of those agencies are as high as 35% to 40%, with agencies making £100 a day on candidates. Will the Minister agree to meet me to discuss those issues that are facing Blackpool?

[Catherine McKinnell]

Support staff, temporary staff and agency staff can provide important support to schools where it is needed, but that must be done in a fair way that helps to manage school budgets and provide the outcomes for children that we know a stable teaching force can bring. I would be more than happy to discuss the particular issues that my hon. Friend raises with him.

[Peter Fortune (Bromley and Biggin Hill) (Con)]

Bromley council has the second highest rate of education, health and care plans in London, and is in desperate need of extra special school provision. The council is looking to bring forward a 200-space special school but has met with a lack of innovation at the Education and Skills Funding Agency. Will the Minister meet me and local officials to discuss how we can break those bureaucratic blockers and deliver this provision?

[Catherine McKinnell]

Yes, I would be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman.

[Helena Dollimore (Hastings and Rye) (Lab/Co-op)]

Last month, I held a public meeting in my constituency with over 100 parents, carers and pupils to discuss our concerns about the quality of secondary education in my constituency. It is an absolute scandal that over 60% of young people leave school without a pass—level 4 or higher—in maths and English GCSE, a trend that has got worse under the Conservative party. Will the Minister commit to driving up standards in my local schools as a priority for this Labour Government?

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend is a passionate advocate for better outcomes for the young people in her constituency, and I commend her approach for engaging so widely with parents, who I know share her concerns. I am more than happy to give her that commitment. Everything we do in the Department is about driving opportunity, and that means driving up standards in every school, in every part of the country.

[Monica Harding (Esher and Walton) (LD)]

This week, on a visit to a school in my constituency, I was told about a boy with SEND who has been temporarily excluded five times. He is extremely dysregulated and vulnerable and has been waiting for two years for specialist provision. The school has tried to get him to the top of the mental health list but has been told that it cannot. What should I say to his headteacher, who is at the end of her tether?

[Catherine McKinnell]

The hon. Lady and I have discussed some of the challenges in her local area in relation to delivering better outcomes for children with special educational needs and disabilities, and she is right to raise this issue of ensuring that the health workforce can back up the change needed in education settings. We are working closely with colleagues across Government to ensure that we take a joined-up approach to improving outcomes.