Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

It is always a pleasure to meet my hon. Friend, who has done a fantastic job in lobbying for better east-west links in his own constituency, and I shall look forward with interest to hearing what he has to say. No doubt those in the Treasury and the Department for Transport will also take a keen in interest in the subject.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Wales took the brunt of the storm last week, and hundreds of people in my constituency lost absolutely everything, because they have had to make a choice between buying food and paying the insurance bill, and they are completely uninsured. Rhondda Cynon Taff Council alone—just one local authority—is going to have a bill of £30 million. What is the point of a United Kingdom if the United Kingdom will not stand by Wales financially when we really need it?

[David T. C. Davies]

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already said, he has had meetings with the First Minister. At the moment, there is no way of knowing exactly what the cost of those floods will be—I know that the chief executive of Monmouthshire was unable to tell me—except that it will run into millions of pounds. We have already moved to ensure that people who receive compensation will not see any impact on their benefits. We absolutely stand with Wales, but as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, it would be impossible for us to go marching into Wales to tell the Welsh Government what to do in what is a devolved area. We stand ready to support the Welsh Government in any way, but they need to come forward with a set of costs and explain exactly how that money will be spent.

Autumn Budget as it Relates to Wales (Morning sitting)

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 General Committees

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman will be well aware that when that commitment was made, the intention was to use electric-only trains rather than bimodal trains.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The former Secretary of State for Transport also categorically stated in the House of Commons that the valleys lines would be electrified by the end of 2018. There is absolutely no prospect of that happening, is there? Why do Conservative politicians keep making promises that they know they have no prospect of fulfilling?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman is well aware that that responsibility has been passed over to the Welsh Government, with additional money being made available by the UK Government for that scheme. I suggest that he puts that question to his colleagues in Cardiff Bay, because the former Transport Secretary would have been repeating the claims and the comments that had been made by politicians in Cardiff Bay.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christina Rees]

Eight years of cuts and where has it got us? Your policies have driven up the debt. I really do not see where you are coming from.

[Chris Bryant]

Is not there another point? If the Government keep on trying to run the state on the cheap, they will end up spending more because they have to buy in agency workers in the NHS and schools, and pay consultants to do work that could have been done in-house. It is a complete and utter false economy that they have been running all these years.

[Christina Rees]

I really cannot add to that—my hon. Friend put it so well and I totally agree. That was my opinion on Budget day. I wonder if I could be persuaded differently by Conservative Members by the end of this Welsh Grand Committee today. The way things are going so far, I do not think I will.

Let me demonstrate the appalling attitude to Wales shown by the UK Tory Government through a budget that embodies this disdain. More than half of the new funding announced for Wales will have to be paid back to the UK Tory Government. Two thirds of the additional capital funding is made up of a form of funding called financial transactions, which must be repaid to the Treasury. There are also restrictions on what it can be spent on. The Welsh budget has experienced year on year cuts as a result of the UK Tory Government’s ongoing ideological programme of austerity. There is an ongoing battle between the social democratic values of the Welsh Labour Government versus the neoliberal ideology of the UK Tory Government.

Even with these small increases in funding, our budget will still be 5% lower in real terms in 2019-20 than it was in 2010-11, which is equivalent to having £900 million less to spend on public services in Wales. If we exclude the financial transactions funding, which we will have to pay back, our budget will be 7% lower, or equivalent to £1.1 billion less by 2019-20.

Wales has been let down elsewhere too. The Welsh Labour Government have repeatedly called on the UK Tory Government to fully fund a pay rise for all public sector workers. The UK Tory budget was a missed opportunity to do just that. The Welsh Labour Government have called on the UK Tory Government to invest in key infrastructure projects in Wales, including the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, which has been mentioned before, and rail, but the Chancellor once again turned his back on Wales. The only feedback we have had on the tidal lagoon is the vague point about value for money that was trundled out again last week and today, despite the UK Tory Government’s independent Hendry review recommending its support as a no-regrets decision. The Secretary of State has told us that Welsh Labour Government and UK Tory Government officials met to discuss the tidal lagoon, but what about the UK Tory Government decision-makers? When are they going to front up and put up? The Secretary of State knows that the Welsh Labour Government have pledged millions to support the Swansea bay tidal lagoon.

The UK Tory Government have cancelled the electrification of the main line from Cardiff to Swansea, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David). None of their explanations for doing so make economic or environmental sense. If the UK Tory Government had kept their promise to electrify the main line from Cardiff to Swansea, we would not have needed bimodal trains, which are heavier because they need to carry both sources of power, making each journey more expensive. The heavier trains increase wear and tear on the track, the buffet car has been taken out to make 130 more seats, and so on.

There has been no devolution of air passenger duty to Wales. Last week at Wales questions, the Secretary of State failed once again to answer a question put by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) about devolving airport taxes. Building on the excellent work of Visit Wales, the Welsh Labour Government would be able to use the control of air passenger duty to support and promote Welsh tourism. Anyone who visits Wales will agree that it is spectacularly beautiful.

If I were being magnanimous––I am a very gentle, understanding person––I could mention something that the Tories did include for Wales in their Budget. They announced that the Severn bridge tolls will be scrapped by the end of next year, following an immediate cut to various charges. What they did not tell us is that the drop in toll prices is merely down to the removal of VAT, because legislation, rather than political priorities, dictates that VAT cannot be charged once the bridges have been brought back into public ownership. Who is to say that the Tories will not break yet another promise and fail to remove the tolls, even though it is difficult to do a U-turn while driving on the Severn bridges?

We urge the UK Tory Government to pause and fix universal credit, which is creating appalling poverty, debt and desperation for families across Wales. They choose not to, instead tinkering around the edges of a broken system. We ask the UK Tory Government once again to join Welsh Labour and support business, infrastructure and innovation, for on each and every one of these, Wales has been let down once again. On the crucial issue of the north Wales growth deal, after sustained pressure from Welsh Labour MPs and the Welsh Labour Government, the Chancellor indicated that discussions would begin to take the project forward. I am pleased to hear that that is going to happen today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

The export boom that would be expected from a 20% devaluation in sterling has not occurred. That is the factual reality of the situation. The fact that the currency is not rebounding, despite the British Government apparently outlining what they want from the Brexit negotiations, indicates that the markets are betting against the British Government.

[Chris Bryant]

One of the biggest mistakes that the coalition Government made in 2010 was cutting capital budgets. That meant that we did not have the infrastructure in place that we need for a modern economy. That has hit productivity across the whole country.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwynt cywir iawn a byddaf yn dychwelyd i’r pwyntiau hynny yn hwyrach yn fy araith.

(Translation) The hon. Gentleman makes a very valid point, and I will return to the issues he raises.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. The hon. Member for Caerphilly and I were in the United States a few years ago, and we had a very interesting discussion with the food lobby there. I guarantee that it carries a lot of weight, and that is a clear indication of some of the problems we will face in future.

I shall return to the Budget.

Mewn polisi ariannol y mae’r perygl arall. Mae polisi ariannol hynod lac gan y Banc Canolog wedi cynnal yr economi ers 2010, a bydd oes yr arian rhad yn diflannu’n raddol wrth i gyfraddau llog gychwyn ar eu taith tuag at normaleiddio.

Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, daeth twf economaidd i ddibynnu fwyfwy ar wariant gan ddefnyddwyr fel canran o GDP. Bydd methiant i ail-gydbwyso oddi wrth economi a gynhelir gan ddyled cartrefi yn rhwystr sylweddol yn y blynyddoedd i ddod.

(Translation) Monetary policy is another danger. The ultra-loose monetary policy of the central bank has sustained the economy since 2010, and the area of cheap money will gradually be removed as interest rates begin their journey to normalisation. During that period, economic growth has become even more reliant on consumer spending as a percentage of GDP. Failure to rebalance from an economy sustained by household debt will be a significant barrier in years to come.

Personal debt is reaching the level it was at before the great crash of 2008. That should be of great concern to us all.

Mae dirwasgiadau yn dueddol o ddod bob degawd, sy’n golygu, naw mlynedd wedi chwalfa ariannol fawr 2008 ein bod yn nes at ddiwedd y cylch na’i gychwyn. Nid yw’r methiant i neidio’n ôl yn sydyn o’r chwalfa fawr ac i ail-gydbwyso yn sectoraidd a daearyddol, na dibyniaeth yr economi ar beiriant cynnal bywyd polisi arianyddol yn argoeli’n dda at y dyfodol.

(Translation) Recessions tend to come each decade, which means that nine years after the great financial crash of 2008, we are far nearer the end of the cycle than its beginning. The failure to rebound sharply from the great crash, the failure fundamentally to rebalance sectorally and geographically, and the reliance of the economy on the life support of monetary policy do not bode well for the future.

The failure to rebound quickly from the great recession, the failure to rebalance sectorally and geographically, and the decade-long dependence on the life support of ultra-loose monetary policy do not bode well for the future.

O ystyried graddfa’r her, nid yw’r Mesur Cyllid yn addas. Cyn ymdrin â rhai o gymalau’r Mesur hwn, carwn ganolbwyntio ar rai o’r darpariaethau sydd, ysywaeth, ar goll.

Mae model economaidd y Deyrnas Gyfunol a ddilynwyd ers degawdau gan holl bleidiau sefydliad San Steffan wedi ei seilio ar hyrwyddo gweithgarwch a chyfoeth yn Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr. Dylai’r anghydraddoldebau daearyddol o ran cyfoeth fod yn destun cywilydd i wleidyddion San Steffan. Mae naw o’r deg rhanbarth tlotaf yng ngogledd Ewrop yn y wladwriaeth Brydeinig yn ogystal â’r un cyfoethocaf. Yn anffodus, wrth gwrs, mae gorllewin a gogledd Cymru ymysg y tlotaf. Dylai’r Trysorlys fod yn ceisio ymdrin â’r record gywilyddus hon, ac eto does dim yn y mesur cyllid hwn fydd o ddifrif yn mynd i’r afael â’r heriau o’n blaenau.

Efallai mai un o ganlyniadau Brexit fydd y bydd cwmnïau ariannol Dinas Llundain yn adleoli i Baris, Frankfurt a Dulyn. O ystyried hynny, dylai Llywodraeth Prydain ymateb drwy ganolbwyntio ar sectorau economaidd eraill, yn enwedig gweithgynhyrchu. Dylai hyn arwain at symud y pwsylais ymaith o dde-ddwyrain Lloegr i’r cenhedloedd a’r rhanbarthau.

Yn anad dim, dylai Cymru gael y grym cyllidol i lunio ein heconomi ein hunain. Mae’n warthus fod gan yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon setliad cyllidol a threthiannol llawer gryfach na Chymru. Oherywdd hyn, bydd economi Cymru dan anfantais sylweddol. Dydw i methu deall pam nad yw gwleidyddion o’r pleidiau Unoliaethol a bleidleisiodd o blaid rhoi mwy o bwerau i’r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yn barod i ddarparu ar gyfer ein cenedl ni ein hunain.

Hyd yn oed os ydym yn rhoi i’r neilltu yr anghydraddoldebau cyfansoddiadol, mae’r sefyllfa yn golygu fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn llai abl i ymyrryd yn ein heconomi. Os mai Brexit caled fydd hi, dylid datganoli portffolio cyfan o drethi, gan gynnwys treth teithwyr awyr, treth ar werth a threth gorfforaeth.

Dylai buddsoddi mewn seilwaith gael ei wasgaru’n fwy cyfartal ar draws y wladwriaeth Brydeinig.

(Translation) Considering the scale of the challenge, the Finance Bill is in no way fit for purpose. Before addressing some of the measures in the Bill, I will concentrate on some provisions that are sadly missing. The UK economic model, which has been followed for decades by all the establishment parties in Westminster, is based on promoting activity and wealth in London and the south-east of England. The geographical wealth inequality should be a matter of shame for Labour and all politicians in Westminster. Nine of the 10 poorest regions in northern Europe are in Britain, as well as the richest. Unfortunately, west Wales and north Wales are among the poorest. The Treasury’s overriding aim should be to address that shameful record, but nothing in the Finance Bill will seriously get to grips with the challenges facing us.

One consequence of Brexit might be the relocation of London-based financial companies to Paris, Frankfurt or Dublin. Given that, the British Government should focus on other economic sectors, and manufacturing in particular. That should shift the focus away from London to the nations and regions.

First and foremost, Wales should be empowered to create its own economy. It is disgraceful that Scotland and Northern Ireland have stronger financial settlements than Wales. Given that, the Welsh economy will be at severe disadvantage. I cannot understand why politicians from Unionist parties vote in favour of giving more power to Scotland and Northern Ireland, but are unwilling to do so for our own nation. Putting aside the constitutional imbalances, that means that the Welsh Government are less able to intervene in our economy. If we are to have a hard Brexit, a portfolio of taxes should be devolved, including air passenger duty, VAT and corporation tax.

Infrastructure investment should be more evenly spread across Britain. Why should Welsh taxpayers’ money be spent on English projects?

[Chris Bryant]

We had a vote last week on what we will do about the Palace of Westminster, where lots of people were anxious about us spending so much money in London. Is there not a really important thing we could do for every region of the United Kingdom? After Brexit, we will not have the skills in this country to complete the work on one of our biggest infrastructure projects, so should we not set up a parliamentary apprenticeship scheme so that people can gain those skills in Wales, with every constituency in Wales having someone working on the project here?

[Jonathan Edwards]

Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn codi pwynt dilys. Ces i ddim y cyfle i wneud y pwynt yma yn ystod y ddadl, ond yn bersonnol byddwn i wedi moyn symud y Senedd allan o Lundain. Rydw i’n credu byddai hynny wedi bod yn symbol o’r angen i ddatganoli’n economaidd y Wladwriaeth Brydeinig. O ystyried bod y penderfyniad bellach wedi cael ei wneud—rwy’n llongyfarch y Bonheddwr anrhydeddus ar ennill ar ei welliant—dylem nawr fanteisio ar y cyfle i sicrhau bod y buddsoddiad hynny yn cael ei wasgaru ledled y Wladwriaeth Brydeinig. Rwy’n credu bod yna job wirioneddol i’w wneud ar hynny, ac rwy’n edrych i’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus i gynnig arweiniad, o ystyried mai fe sydd wedi arwain y ddadl i aros fan hyn—dyna job fach iddo fe dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.

(Translation) The hon. Gentleman raises a valid point. I did not have the opportunity to make this point during the debate, but I wanted to move Parliament away from London, because that would be a symbol of the need to devolve the British states economically, too. Given that a decision has been made—I congratulate him on getting his amendment to that motion through—we should take every opportunity to ensure that that investment is spread across Britain. There is a real job to be done there, and I look to him to give leadership on that over the next few months, given that he has led the debate for remaining here.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We are grateful to the Secretary of State.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

6. When he expects the electrification of the valleys lines to (a) start and (b) be completed.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

The Government have confirmed their commitment to contribute £125 million to the Cardiff city deal, which will provide an investment fund for the region and support for the electrification of the valleys lines. The project has the potential to broaden employment opportunities for those living in some of Wales’s most deprived communities and to act as a significant incentive for business investment. The scope, planning and delivery of electrification are matters for the Welsh Government.

[Chris Bryant]

That is a pitiful answer. It does not answer the question at all. The former Secretary of State for Transport, the right hon. Member for Derbyshire Dales (Sir Patrick McLoughlin), who is talking to the present Secretary of State for Transport, told the House in October 2012 that the project would be finished by May 2015, but it has not even started. When will the Minister ensure that my constituents get the proper service that they require, with clean trains, disabled access, proper toilets and services that do not break down?

[Guto Bebb]

I think that the whole House enjoys the hon. Gentleman’s rhetoric, but it would appear that he—[Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises an important issue which matters both to her and me. I think the phrase that was used by the Lawyers’ Christian Fellowship was “the jealously guarded principle” of that ability to speak freely, as she says, respectfully and responsibly about one’s religion. I am happy to welcome the publication of this report and its findings. Of course, we are now into the season of Advent. We have a very strong tradition in this country of religious tolerance and freedom of speech, and our Christian heritage is something we can all be proud of. I am sure we would all want to ensure that people at work do feel able to speak about their faith, and also feel able to speak quite freely about Christmas.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Q3. Thirty years ago, I conducted my first funeral as a young curate. It was for a young teenage boy who was an enormous fan of Paul Simon, so, as the crematorium curtains closed, we listened to “The Sound of Silence”, and many people cried. The average cost of a child’s funeral today is £3,675. Some councils do not charge anything, but some charge a lot, and the social fund is means-tested. I ask again: will the Prime Minister please listen to the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), sign up to her campaign and put an end to both the means-testing and the postcode lottery, so that no parents who lose a child have to deal with the fear of hardship as well as their grief?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point. I know that the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) spoke very movingly from personal experience in the debate that she called on this issue. I do not think that anybody who has not been through the death of a child can possibly understand the pain that that brings, not just immediately but thereafter, as parents see others grow up while their child will not.

I recognise the issue that the hon. Gentleman has raised about the cost of children’s funerals. As he has said, there are measures in place for families who have particular hardship cases, where money can be given. It is open to local authorities to waive fees, and some local authorities do that. We have left this as a decision for local authorities, and some do, indeed, waive those fees.

Government Policies (Wales)

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

Let me tell the hon. Gentleman something very simple that he could do to stop this back and forth about numbers: he could think about the impact on people in his constituency and mine, and those of all other hon. Members, and he could scrap the bedroom tax tomorrow. That is what Labour will do if we are elected. We will get rid of it in a heartbeat. Frankly, the nonsense about who has applied for which grant demeans this debate, which is a serious debate about the impact on real people.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Does not this argument miss the fundamental point, which is that if the Government have to create a system in which there is a discretionary housing payment, which means that some local authorities will be mean at the beginning of the year and generous towards the end of the year, and that some local authorities will be meaner than others, they have completely lost the plot? That is why we have to get rid of the bedroom tax in its entirety.

[Owen Smith]

Introducing a tax that is reliant on people being able to move to smaller properties was, in and of itself, barmy, because there are not the properties for people to move into. That is why 60% of social housing associations in Wales are struggling to rehouse people.

Of course, it is not just the people who are hit by the cuts to welfare payments that are affected, but the wider population. Sheffield Hallam university produced a report just a few weeks ago that said that the welfare cuts will result in a £1,000 reduction in the incomes of all people across the south Wales valleys eventually, as reductions in aggregate demand, reductions in spending and further job losses—it suggested that 3,000 jobs might be lost across south Wales—result in a less dynamic and resilient economy. It is not just the people who are directly impacted by the welfare cuts who are affected, but the wider economy.

On top of the welfare cuts, ordinary workers who are not in receipt of benefits are losing £1,600 a year. That is why Labour will do something about low wages in Wales. We have made it very clear that we will set the national minimum wage at 58% of median earnings by 2020. That will mean a minimum wage of £8 in Wales and will put an extra £2.50 per week in the pockets of working people. It will mean 60 quid a week or £3,000 a year for hard-working families. [Interruption.] The Secretary of State laughs and giggles once more, as I discuss low wages.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

That is a message I hear consistently from small businesses up and down Wales. Wherever I go, they welcome the efforts the Government have made to give them confidence to hire more workers and to keep staff. The last thing that businesses want to be doing is shedding staff at this time. They know how hard things have been for many families out there in the economy and they are doing everything possible to hold on to staff and grow their work forces. We have been supporting them in that.

[Chris Bryant]

The single thing that every business man or woman in Wales has said to me is that they want economic security and certainty about the future if they are going to see investment or to make further investment themselves. What is really worrying them is that the Government are playing fast and loose with our membership of the European Union, hanging the sword of Damocles over the Welsh economy and the UK economy. The uncertainty about whether we will be in or out is surely bad for the Welsh economy.

[Stephen Crabb]

The uncertainty about the European Union and the doubts and concerns about it are out there anyway. If the hon. Gentleman talks to people in Wales and looks at the public opinion polls, he will see that opinion in Wales is almost equally divided between those who are saying they want to come out of the European Union and those who are saying that they want to stay in. The Prime Minister’s strategy of getting a better deal from Europe as regards our membership and putting it to the people of Wales and the UK, arguing for Britain to stay in on that renegotiated membership, is the best strategy for dealing with this and addressing it head-on. That has to be the best way.

[Chris Bryant]

I disagree. I would have a referendum tomorrow. If that is the Secretary of State’s real argument, let us have a referendum tomorrow. The idea of holding off for two years and having some nebulous renegotiation when we have not even set the terms of what we want and are constantly saying to businesses in Wales that we do not know whether will be in or whether the Prime Minister would support staying in the European Union in two years’ time can only be bad not only for big businesses, such as Airbus and General Electric, but for the small and medium-sized businesses that rely on investment through the public funds that come from the EU.

[Stephen Crabb]

I have a great deal of time and respect for the hon. Gentleman, who knows his stuff on this issue, but I suggest that he look at what the business organisations are saying. They support what the Prime Minister is saying about renegotiating. Businesses themselves in the UK and Wales want a less intrusive, less costly and less burdensome membership of the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, I merely pick up what has been reported and discussed in the media.

While the Labour party is busy tearing itself apart, we are cracking on with creating the right conditions to get the economy moving. We are investing in Wales because we believe in Wales. I am particularly delighted to be able to tell the House that the rail electrification projects in south Wales will go ahead. I am sure that the hon. Member for Pontypridd would have preferred us not to meet that challenge, so he would have one more reason to be negative and talk down the economy in Wales, but I am proud of the deal that the Wales Office brokered between the Department for Transport and the Welsh Government, putting Welsh interests right at the heart of the Government’s agenda.

[Chris Bryant]

rose—

[Stephen Crabb]

I give way to the hon. Member for Rhondda, who is very excited today.

[Chris Bryant]

No, I am quite calm, actually. This is calm.

Will the Secretary of State tell me precisely when we shall see the electrification of the valleys lines? I have heard successive Ministers make promises about it, but absolutely nothing has happened.

[Stephen Crabb]

We are delivering this project. We have worked very constructively with the Welsh Government to put the deal in place. We will see trains running on the electrified service to Swansea in 2018, and on the valleys lines in 2022. Obviously, those timetables are subject to how quickly the Welsh Government move in managing the project, but they understand its strategic importance and urgency for people and businesses in south Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Once again, we have listened for about 40 minutes to the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) treat us to his tales of economic doom and gloom and woe. It must be getter harder and harder for him to maintain that in the light of the ever-better financial news. I had an interesting morning in the run-up to this debate: I decided to read through a few of his previous speeches. I went back to 2010, when he quoted an Oxford Economics report, saying that the coalition Government would be able to create only 4,000 private sector jobs. I wonder whether he remembers saying that. The reality is that so far, over the course of this Parliament, we have created 100,000 private sector jobs in Wales alone. In the same speech he talked about net increases in unemployment continuing until 2025. The reality, of course, is that unemployment is now at its lowest level since 2008.

In a subsequent speech on 11 November 2011, the hon. Gentleman spoke of a 4% contraction in GDP over the course of the Parliament. The reality is that so far over the course of this Parliament we have had a GDP of 7.8%, and I got that figure from the House of Commons Library earlier today. We have the fastest-growing economy in the developed world. I am so proud to be standing here supporting the Prime Minister and the excellent Secretary of State for Wales he has just appointed.

[Chris Bryant]

If we are going to talk about speeches that other Members have made, I remember the Prime Minister saying that the deficit would be cut completely by the end of this Parliament. I remember him saying that the debt would be falling. I remember him saying that net migration to this country would fall below 100,000. None of those things has come to pass, so let us talk about the Government’s failures.

[David T. C. Davies]

rose—

[Chris Bryant]

The Prime Minister even said that no disabled people would be affected by the bedroom tax, but two thirds of those affected by it in Wales are disabled.

[David T. C. Davies]

If the hon. Gentleman would be kind enough to give way, I will talk about those things. First I will leave him to think about this headline: “UK unemployment rate falls to lowest level since 2008”. That is from The Guardian just a few weeks ago. But let us talk about the debt, because after all, we inherited a debt of around £800 billion.

[Chris Bryant]

It has gone up.

[David T. C. Davies]

Yes, it has gone up. We also had a deficit of £160 billion, and we have not managed to do as much as we wanted to do with that. I would have liked to see us do more with it. But the reality is that there has been no coherence from Labour Members, because every time we have suggested ways to cut the deficit further, they have opposed them. They sit there trying to convince the world that they have a coherent economic policy, when they have condemned us for borrowing money while at the same time demanding that we borrow more. That is why people will not trust them with the economy.

The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) talked about immigration. Again, I would have liked to see us go further, but immigration from outside the European Union has been reduced significantly, and we cannot do anything about immigration from within the European Union—he should know, because he is the biggest Europhile in this place. We cannot do anything about freedom of movement, but we are going to offer a referendum on it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

Where possible, we would encourage employers to pay the living wage, but the Government’s responsibility is to ensure that the national minimum wage is adhered to. It is set independently, and it is a balanced discussion between employers, Government and employees.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

If Conservative Members are so keen on improving poor wages, why did they do everything in their power to prevent the national minimum wage from coming into law? Why do Conservative Ministers regularly accuse the poor of being workshy when actually, in my constituency, many of the most hard-working are those who are hit by a double whammy—low wages and few hours? That means that when they travel to work in Wales they are working a damn sight harder than the Minister ever did.

[Alun Cairns]

We have not only increased the national minimum wage by the largest cash increase since 2008 but taken the lowest earners out of income tax, which means that a full-time employee on the national minimum wage is paying two thirds less income tax. I hope that that is something that the hon. Gentleman would welcome.

Wales Bill

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Indeed. I think that everyone in the south Wales business community recognises that the M4 is indeed a foot on the windpipe of the economy and we are anxious to see it upgraded. The competence that we shall be giving the Assembly Government—in fact, we have already extended it to them—will enable them to proceed as quickly as possible with that essential upgrade.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

While we are on infrastructure improvements, the Government here have much boasted that they will be electrifying the valleys lines. Every time they seemed to suggest that they would pay for it, but now it seems they are refusing, so who will actually be paying for the electrification of the valleys lines?

[Mr Jones]

We are skiing somewhat off piste, because that is not within the competence of this Bill, but there is clear correspondence between the Assembly Government and the Department for Transport on how the upgrade would be funded, and it is absolutely clear that the Welsh Government were paying for the upgrade of the valleys lines.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

It should be entirely clear to the hon. Gentleman, because the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) took the trouble to write to the Chairman of the Grand Committee, the hon. Member for Gower (Martin Caton), on 10 February, setting out these matters in great detail. I know that a copy of that letter was sent to the hon. Gentleman, and he will know, having read it, that the provisions are as follows:

“In the first year of operation (and any transitional years) the block grant adjustment will equal the amount of tax revenue generated by the Welsh rate of income tax set at 10p. It is important to note the following:

This is the amount of income tax forfeited by the UK Government as a result of reducing the main rates of income tax by 10p in Wales. If the Welsh Government sets a rate of 10p then there will be no impact on their budget compared to current arrangements. By setting a rate of, for example, 11p or 9p the Welsh Government can increase or decrease its budget (respectively) compared to current arrangements, as the block grant adjustment will still be based on the 10p forfeited by the UK Government. That means that the higher or lower revenue resulting from a rate of 11p or 9p (rather than 10p) would not be netted off the block grant.”

[Chris Bryant]

Riveting.

[Mr Jones]

Well, the hon. Member for Pontypridd had not read this letter, so I am reading it out to him. It goes on:

“In subsequent years the initial deduction is indexed against movements in the UK NSND”—

that is, not savings, not dividends—

“income tax base. That means that if the UK NSND income tax base contracts by 2%, the block grant adjustment will decrease by 2%; if the tax base grows by 2%, the adjustment will increase by 2%.”

That should have been absolutely clear to the hon. Gentleman, but he clearly did not read the letter, so I am glad to have had this opportunity to acquaint him with its contents. It clearly contains the reassurance that he seeks.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

The Secretary of State has used the word “accountable” 14 times so far in his speech and has talked about how this Bill will make politicians in Wales more accountable, but it is going to mean that there will be fewer elections. Does that not make them less accountable?

[Mr Jones]

I would not have thought so. By the way, I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for counting how many times I have used the word “accountable”. That now makes 15. I would have thought that he would be concerned to ensure that Assembly elections were not overshadowed by general elections, and that in my book makes for accountability.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend was involved in that Bill, and he is of course entirely right.

[Chris Bryant]

The thing is, it is the former Minister who is not very joined up with his own memory. At the time, Labour voted for a four-year fixed-term Parliament in here, which would have meant a four-year fixed term for Wales as well. In that way, we would not have had to coincide and we would have had greater accountability. Let us have a general election now, shall we?

[Mr Jones]

As we have five-year terms for general elections, we take the view that we should also have five-year terms for Assembly elections.

The removal of the ban on dual candidacy restores the position to how it was in the Government of Wales Act 1998. I believe that the change is supported by all parties other than the Labour party, which introduced the ban in the first place. The ban on so called “double-jobbing” between the Assembly and this House addresses legitimate concerns about whether it is possible for someone adequately to represent constituents’ interests in two elected legislatures at the same time.

The legislation also implements several changes that have been specifically requested by the Welsh Government, including formally enshrining that name—the Welsh Government—in statute, as it has been common parlance for the Welsh Assembly Government to be so referred to for several years now.

In responding to the Silk commission’s recommendations, the Government made it clear that we were unconvinced by the case for devolving air passenger duty to Wales, so the Bill makes no provision for that. Neither does it make provision for the full devolution of business rates. That is because, in terms of legislative competence, business rates fall within the devolved subject of local government finance and so we need make no further provision in this Bill. In order fully to devolve business rates, the Government are amending current funding arrangements so that the Welsh Government benefit directly from revenues raised by that tax in Wales.

Finally, as I said in my written statement to this House on 3 March, we do not see this Bill as an appropriate vehicle for implementing the recommendations made by the Silk commission in its second report. The commission’s second report raises crucial questions about the future governance of Wales within the United Kingdom, and it would not be right to rush into implementing its recommendations without careful assessment. It is essential that we take the time needed to get things right. Consequently, the Bill is focused on devolving the package of tax and borrowing powers to Wales recommended by the commission in its first report. Including a whole raft of other powers would merely serve to delay the Bill and jeopardise its enactment before the 2015 general election.

The Government believe that devolution should be used to give a competitive edge to Wales, and that powers devolved should be used to grow the Welsh economy and make Wales a more prosperous place. The Bill will deliver that. It will make devolved governance in Wales fairer, more accountable and better able to support economic growth. I hope, and I believe, that we can achieve a broad consensus in this House around this Bill, and make rapid progress. I commend the Bill to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith]

I put to the hon. Gentleman the impact assessment and the explanatory notes from his own Government. They make it clear that this is a partisan measure that will only benefit the minority parties in Wales, among which we count the Conservative party. That is what this is about.

[Chris Bryant]

Is it not particularly irritating that Leanne Wood can stand in Rhondda? She has done it before: she stood in 2001 for the parliamentary seat and lost very heavily. The people of Rhondda will, I am sure, return Leighton Andrews in the next Assembly elections, because he is the best Assembly Member in Wales. They cannot prevent Leanne Wood from being elected, however, because they have no means of affecting the order on the Plaid Cymru list. She gets two goes.

[Owen Smith]

Absolutely. The only thing I would contest in my hon. Friend’s intervention is the suggestion that Leighton Andrews is the best Assembly Member in Wales. That particular accolade goes, of course, to Mick Antoniw, the AM for Pontypridd.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Rising to my feet to participate in the debate gives me a heavy attack of déjà vu. I hope my words will be slightly less curmudgeonly than those of the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith). I give this small and elegant Bill a warm welcome, because I believe it takes Wales forward. It does so in a small, incremental step, rather than in one of those steps that allows Wales to fall into a large hole and disappear without trace. The Government are looking after the interests of Wales and the people of Wales in the Bill. Long may that continue.

As many hon. Members know, for me, the Bill is part of unfinished business that stretches back not to when I was Secretary of State for Wales, but to my appointment as shadow Secretary of State. I pay unreserved tribute to Paul Silk and members of the Silk commission. The Calman commission did not attract the Scottish National party to sit alongside other members, but I was really pleased when Plaid Cymru accepted the invitation to join the Silk commission. The participation of all the parties involved in the governance of Wales in the Silk commission has made its results more credible. I believe it will contribute towards Wales remaining part of the Union, on which most Opposition Members agree with Government Members. I also believe that the commission will contribute to Wales having increasing self-determination in certain matters, which will be good for the people of Wales and for the devolved Administration.

The trend towards more local democracy must not be at the expense of effective governance. That brings me to a point that became apparent to me over the seven years in which I carried responsibility for Welsh policy in my party. In future, I believe that a confident Wales and a confident Westminster Government should not hesitate to contemplate not only the devolution of powers, but the return of areas of competence to the supra-national Parliament, if it is the wish of those areas or institutions. There is a valid and compelling case for that course of action. That was not apparent in the Silk commission report, but by way of example, it was expressed to me while in opposition and in government, particularly from the university sector—albeit often behind closed doors for fear of repercussions—that a body of opinion wanted the re-coupling of Welsh and English universities in the interests of Wales and of education in Wales.

As we have been reminded, the constitutional position in the Bill is that we are extending the Assembly’s term of office to five years. That is probably sensible given the circumstances, but, for me, the jury is out on five-year terms. I was persuaded by the First Minister that that was the way to go because the UK Parliament introduced a five-year term and we need to avoid a clash of an Assembly election with a general election. However, I question the wisdom of that. All hon. Members know how expensive democracy and elections are. I would have liked to have seen the cost savings that would have resulted from running those elections together and any effect on turnout. It does not matter which part of the UK people are in, there is no doubt that they are being turned off by democracy—we are seeing diminishing returns of voters going to the ballot box. Perhaps running those elections at the same time would have increased participation at the ballot box. It might also have been easier to explain the relationship between the Assembly and the UK Parliament.

[Chris Bryant]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way because I rather agree with her. Voters would probably prefer to have two elections on the same day. That would make far more sense—I have argued for it since 2010. Historically, general elections have tended to be every four years, even when we had seven-year terms, because either a Government had run out of steam or it felt right to move on and have an election. We are now moving everything towards five-year terms. My anxiety is that that is less democracy and less accountability.

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point—it is unusual for us to agree on anything, as he will attest —but we need to examine the matter before we set everything finally in concrete. Those on both Front Benches and anybody involved in the business of government should keep an open mind. Rather than saying, “It will be five or seven years for ever,” we should agree to revisit the matter at some stage. Constitutional arrangements are important, but the engagement of the electorate is perhaps one of the most important aspects of democracy.

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies]

Obviously, I am speaking as an individual Back Bencher; it was hard to get any agreement on certain of these issues from the Welsh Affairs Committee. Let me make it clear that I am not speaking for anyone in the Conservative party either—I am entirely on my own on this one, and probably always will be.

I would like to see one improvement that can be made to this Bill. If we consider the powers the Welsh Assembly has already been given, we can see that it has not done terribly well. We have had the sight of the Welsh Minister for Education and Skills apologising, on Boxing day, I believe it was, for the lamentable state of education. As someone who has been through the state school system there, and who has three children in that system, I feel that very strongly. Nor have we seen a good performance from our national health service. Large numbers of people in cross-border areas such as Monmouthshire are desperate to be treated by the coalition Government-run NHS in England. We have even had the spectacle of a Labour Member of Parliament being banned from going before the Health and Social Care Committee in the Welsh Assembly because she was likely to tell a few home truths that members of that Committee did not want to hear. There has thus been a failure even to carry out the proper scrutiny role.

What I would like to see from this Bill is the opportunity not to take powers away from the Welsh Assembly, but to recognise that where there are problems, individuals ought to be given the choice. Somebody in Wales who is ill and wishes to be treated in England should have the right to access the NHS in England, with the cost of treatment being deducted from the block grant. Similarly, if someone in England was happy to wait twice as long as they needed to and be treated in Wales, they could be treated in Wales, with the cost of their treatment being added to the block grant. That would be an excellent way for us to maintain the commitment to devolution while allowing everyone to enjoy the benefits of a national health service.

[Chris Bryant]

The hon. Gentleman thinks it would be much better to move to a federal system. My problem is that that denies the history of all the different parts of the United Kingdom: the whole of Ireland was a kingdom until the partition and so on; Scotland had a completely different legal system even when the Crowns were joined together; and Wales never had a separate legal situation. Asymmetric devolution is actually the most sensible way of progressing.

[David T. C. Davies]

That is a reasonable intervention from the hon. Gentleman. I respond simply by saying that a federal approach is not a perfect solution, but it is probably the least worst solution, and it is better than waking up in 20 years and finding that we have fully fledged independence. Wales has had a slightly separate legal system; I believe that Henry VIII allowed Wales a measure of independence, except for Monmouthshire, which was brought into the Oxford assizes—we do not need to go into that now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hain]

That intervention interests me. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that whoever stands for whichever party, even if they are deeply opposed by the particular constituents whom they seek to represent, cannot be challenged because they are standing on a party label?

[Chris Bryant]

Is not the point also that Wales is not the only place in the world that has a top-up system to enable diversity within the legislature, but it will be the only place in the world where that practice of standing both on the list and for the first-past-post seat is used?

[Mr Hain]

I bow to my hon. Friend’s superior experience and knowledge. I think that the system applies in Scotland.

[Chris Bryant]

It does in Scotland, but I mean outside the United Kingdom.

[Mr Hain]

It may well be the case that it exists outside the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Notwithstanding that point, the hon. Lady’s Front-Bench colleague, the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), committed at the Dispatch Box to reversing the provision, if I heard him correctly. Her admonition against frequent change should be aimed at him as much as the Secretary of State.

[Chris Bryant]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Harper]

I will give way one last time before moving on to tax powers.

[Chris Bryant]

I knew that the hon. Gentleman would never be able to turn me down. Most countries in Europe have a fixed constitution, which means that they cannot play around with their electoral arrangements. In recent years we have changed the date of the Assembly elections and the local elections, and then we had to change them again because we had already changed the Assembly elections. The voters of this country must surely feel that we play around with the electoral system far too much.

[Mr Harper]

That does not fit my recollection. Let me think about the change of date for the Assembly election. It was carefully thought through. We consulted the leaders of the parties in the Assembly; I recall that I found out the views of the presiding officers before we amended the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill.

The hon. Gentleman might not agree with the system, but all the parties in the Welsh Assembly agreed to it. The change was made for what was argued to be a sensible reason—to prevent the two elections from coinciding, so that the important issues facing the people of Wales would be properly debated rather than being overshadowed by other issues facing the people of the whole United Kingdom. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham put the alternative view that the elections should be held on the same day, and the hon. Gentleman has put forward the same view today. However, having separate election dates seems to me perfectly sensible, and that was the view taken by the Government and this Parliament.

[Chris Bryant]

The thing is that we never shorten the mandate; we always lengthen it. Now local authorities in Wales will end up having five years—possibly six—and that will be the second time they have had five years during my time as an MP in Wales. The Assembly is also going on to five years. It feels as if the political class is constantly saying, “Let’s give ourselves a little more time.” That undermines the democratic sense of British politics.

[Mr Harper]

I have listened carefully to both the hon. Gentleman’s points and the one made by the shadow Secretary of State. It seems to me that they were both taking the brave point of view—presumably, it was a commitment from the shadow Secretary of State—that if the Labour party were, God forbid, to win the next election, it would amend the Fixed-term Parliaments Act and reduce the fixed term to four years. I am not sure whether the shadow Secretary of State has consulted his party leader about that, although I hope he has, for his sake. That seemed to be a clear commitment from him. If the Labour party wins the election, we will see whether it reduces its time in office. I know that the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) says that his party voted for a shorter term when in opposition, but I am pretty confident—I said this at the Dispatch Box, I think—that if his party returns to government, it is highly unlikely that it will vote to shorten its term of office. I might be proved wrong, but I doubt it.

I welcome in general the Bill’s proposals on the devolution of tax powers for the clear reason of accountability. As someone with a constituency on the border, I think it wrong that the Welsh Assembly Government, like the Scottish Government, can spend money on enticing business across the border, but are not accountable for raising the money that they use to do that. Proposals to devolve some of the taxes are sensible; it makes absolute sense for there to be more accountability.

On the issue of capital borrowing, I should say that I am sorry that the hon. Member for Swansea East (Mrs James) is not in the Chamber any more. Let me elaborate a little on my short intervention on her. I looked at the “Wales Bill: Financial Empowerment and Accountability” paper that the Government laid before the House. It is a strange plot, to use the word of the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), that is published and laid before Parliament; I thought plots were conducted in secret, but obviously things have changed.

The paper seems clear: it sets the statutory capital borrowing limit at £500 million. That is linked to the £200 million or so of revenue that is initially being devolved. The limit is higher than if it had been set solely by reference to the same tax borrowing ratio that applies to Scotland. In Scotland, there is a £5 billion responsibility for tax revenues, but only a £2.2 billion capital borrowing limit. If my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had used the same limit in Wales, there would have been a £100 million capital borrowing limit instead of a £500 million one.

My right hon. Friend has met the challenge to show his workings, which were in the paper presented to the House and available to all Members before this debate. He has clearly set out how the Government reached the £500 million limit. As my hon. Friend the Select Committee Chairman said, the limit was increased to £500 million to allow the Welsh Government to proceed with improvements to the M4, should they choose to, in advance of that element of income tax being devolved. The Government judged that such borrowing was affordable for both the Welsh Government and in relation to the UK’s overall position. That seems a sensible position, which has been transparently laid out in the paper.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am well aware of the points my hon. Friend raises. It was for the very reason he mentions that further consultation was undertaken on the proposed devolution of stamp duty land tax; it was ultimately felt that, as a capital tax, a balance would naturally be struck. There is no doubt that were income tax to be devolved, there might be some impact overall, but in terms of the local economy I would imagine that the same people would live very close to one another, albeit on different sides of the border.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Like everybody else, I support the proposals. However, I hope that my constituents are not watching this session, because all they will be thinking about is the cost of living crisis in Wales. Hundreds of thousands of families are worrying about whether they will be able to heat or eat this winter, and yet here we are again fiddling around with the constitutional settlement. Our constituents want us to deal with the real issues that matter to them. I suggest that we get rid of the idea of having a referendum and that we spend the money instead on keeping open the Porth and Treherbert libraries.

[Mr Jones]

I am afraid that I cannot speak on behalf of the users of the Porth or the Treherbert libraries. Those are matters for the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in the Welsh Assembly Government. None the less, those are important matters. The recommendations have been widely welcomed by all parts of the political spectrum, except of course by the hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Q8. Every hour of every day somebody is killed by a weapon that has been irresponsibly traded from one country to another. Next week the arms trade treaty negotiations start in New York. Will the Prime Minister make sure and guarantee that the British delegation fights for the inclusion in the treaty of not only police and security apparatus that can be used for internal repression, but ammunition, which is vital? It is bullets that kill.

[The Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, we back the arms trade treaty, as we have done for a considerable amount of time, and lobby very vigorously on that issue. On the specific point he raises, I will look at it and write to him.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It relates to the Prime Minister.

[Mr Speaker]

It may relate to the Prime Minister but, as far as I am concerned, unless I am advised otherwise, points of order come after statements, and the statement—

[Chris Bryant]

He will regret that.

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think that I will.

[Chris Bryant]

The Prime Minister will regret it.

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the hon. Gentleman has said from a sedentary position. We will now hear the statement from the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport. I call Mr Secretary Hunt.