Infrastructure (Financial Assistance) Bill

Debate between Chris Leslie and Stephen Phillips

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

Although the Opposition will not oppose the Bill on Third Reading, we do not think that the matter should rest there. It is not the most impressive Bill ever placed before this august Chamber. The Minister said that he was grateful for the excellent and informative debate we have had so far, but we had a pretty farcical two hours of scrutiny in Committee; we managed to debate only clause 1 and had no debate on a third of the amendments that were tabled. I think the Government showed a large measure of disrespect to the process of parliamentary scrutiny in the way they misallocated time for today’s discussions.

This legislation is very much in the frame of mind of the “wait and see” game we are used to seeing from the Chancellor and the Treasury team. They hope that something will crop up but are not exactly sure what. The Minister said that he hoped there would be some expressions of interest in something or other but that, ultimately, he cannot predict the future. My right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) asked the killer question: what will be the measure of success for the Bill? What answer did the Minister give? Essentially he said, “We cannot not really predict that, but we are confident that projects will come forward, so judge for yourself.” That is a totally embarrassing and appalling way of managing and advocating what should be a far more sophisticated approach to making public and economic policy.

The country deserves far better than the “wait and see” approach from Ministers. Surely there should be some semblance of projections for how the Bill will be deployed and some way of gauging what that interest is, rather than just putting it out there and hoping that something will happen. But of course we must not forget that the Bill is in large part a device to make it look as though the Government are actually busy. There is one effective sentence in clause 1 that covers the blushes of the accounting officers so that underwriting arrangements can span various financial years, but essentially this is makey-uppy, make-work legislation to make the Government look determined and busy in the Chamber.

Do not forget that we will have a growth Bill in due course, although we are still not clear what will be in it. The Prime Minister famously said that we cannot legislate for growth, so we will see what becomes of that Bill.

[Stephen Phillips]

The hon. Gentleman criticises the Minister for not laying out what the hon. Gentleman regards as the criteria by which the Bill’s success is to be measured. What are the criteria by which the Opposition will measure the success of the Bill, given that they are not going to divide the House on Third Reading?

[Chris Leslie]

We did not have time to discuss some of our amendments. We wanted far more information about the nature of the loans, underwriting and even grants being given to the private sector. The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) tabled some important amendments that we did not get the chance to discuss in any great detail.

My amendment 5 simply talked about making sure that the public can know to whom the financial assistance is being given—a pretty basic tenet of transparency and accountability for public resources. The Minister could not say that that information would be in the public domain. We are not even necessarily allowed to know to whom the financial assistance is being given.

The Minister says that due diligence will be thorough as far as the Treasury is concerned, but what about the rest of us? Our constituents send us here to keep an eye on what the Executive are doing with public money. Without that basic information, how are we to judge the success of the legislation?

Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Chris Leslie and Stephen Phillips

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

It is fortunate that we have the opportunity to debate the Bill on the Floor of the House on Report and Third Reading for a number of reasons. First, the Committee stage of the Financial Services Bill is currently under way upstairs in Committee Room 12, where the Financial Secretary, who usually deals with these issues, is answering the debate and addressing the many amendments that I and my hon. Friends have tabled. It is a shame that the Government saw fit to put only one Minister on that Committee, because it means that he is unable to join us in this debate. I have popped down briefly. It is a pleasure to see the Economic Secretary fielding the questions on his behalf. I have a number of them for her on the detail of the Bill.

Secondly, it is fortunate that we are having this debate on the Floor of the House because, rather bizarrely, the Government chose to take Second Reading upstairs in Committee. I did not know that such Bills could have a Second Reading debate on the Committee corridor, but apparently, under one of the more arcane Standing Orders of the House, Law Commission Bills can be debated upstairs in Committee on Second Reading and never usually see discussion on the Floor of the House. I do not believe that it is right for primary legislation not to have a hearing on the Floor of the House. That is an important principle. However, despite my objections, the Second Reading debate happened upstairs. I challenged the Financial Secretary to hold the Report stage on the Floor of the House and he eventually relented, under extreme pressure. I regard that as one of my greatest triumphs in opposition. It turns out that the Report stage could also have been taken in Committee, so this piece of primary legislation need never have seen the Floor of the House of Commons.

I realise that I have digressed, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I just wanted to show how fortunate we are to have the opportunity to debate the Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Bill here today.

This is a broadly positive Bill. I place on the record my thanks to the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission, which in 2009, when the previous Administration were in office, published a joint report entitled, “Consumer Insurance Law: Pre-Contract Disclosure and Misrepresentation”. That report resulted in this Bill.

The new clause is simple and, I hope, relatively uncontroversial. I hope that the Government will accept it as a positive step forward. The many hon. Members who have joined us for this debate will know that consumer insurance is incredibly important to all our constituents. We are talking not just about life insurance, which members of the public might want to take out, but more day-to-day insurance such as household and contents insurance, building insurance, motor insurance, flood risk insurance, personal effects insurance, health insurance and even pet insurance. There are a number of insurance schemes that the Economic Secretary or my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) may have taken out. Consumer insurance is, therefore, incredibly important.

Although superficially it looks as though the Bill changes only small aspects of contractual matters, it nevertheless gives us the opportunity to take stock of the state of the consumer insurance market and to ask where it is heading, particularly in the light of its provisions. The Bill has a number of important purposes, which I will touch on at Third Reading. Essentially, the story goes back to the 18th and 19th centuries, when a degree of common law had accrued and there were questions about a new contract for insurance. At the start of the 20th century, it was felt that the Marine Insurance Act 1906 needed to be placed on the statute book.

[Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

indicated assent.

[Chris Leslie]

I note that the hon. and learned Gentleman recalls that from his history studies. Although, strictly speaking, the 1906 Act applies only to marine insurance, it has since been generally understood that it applies to all forms of insurance. Essentially, its provisions are the building blocks of the contractual process that is involved in the consumer insurance trade.

[Stephen Phillips]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the 1906 Act, which was drafted by Sir Mackenzie Dalzell Chalmers, is commended to the House by many insurance lawyers as a wonderful piece of drafting. I suppose, as this is my first intervention in this debate, that I should refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests; I am an insurance practitioner. Does the hon. Gentleman think that it is a good idea for Parliament to intervene in this way, given that there are certain respects in which the 1906 Act altered the common law? For example, the test of loss in relation to marine insurance now differs from the test of loss in relation to non-marine insurance.

[Chris Leslie]

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for bringing his experience to bear on this debate; it is incredibly useful. I suppose that, to a certain extent, we all ought to declare an interest in these matters as consumers, because some of our arrangements may be affected.

The hon. and learned Gentleman is right that the 1906 Act has stood the test of time for a considerable period, indeed for more than a century. I confess that I do not have a copy of it in front of me, but I will paraphrase its arrangements. It enshrined in law certain principles of disclosure. In particular, it placed a considerable emphasis on the requirement for the party seeking insurance to disclose any issues that might be broadly relevant in the insurance process. It did not require the insurer to ask a series of specific questions about the particulars of the individual being insured. That was left to the discretion of the insurer. That is part of contract law. Of course, common law has accrued since that time. Some serious problems have developed in recent decades in relation to where the balance is struck between the insurer and the person being insured. The onus falls perhaps too heavily on the person who is being insured.

For example, if you have taken out household contents insurance recently, Mr Deputy Speaker—I am not sure whether you have, but I suggest that you do, because it is a wise thing to do even though it can be quite expensive—you may have been asked a number of questions about the type of mortice lock you have and other things about your place of residence. If you did not volunteer particular data about the building in which you reside, how frequently you are away on business and so on, an insurer with a beady eye on avoiding an obligation to pay up could invalidate your insurance should you be unfortunate enough to be burgled and need to make a claim. That would be through no fault of your own, other than your failure to disclose a number of matters to the insurer.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Phillips]

I rise to make only a short contribution. The new clause is misconceived. The Law Commission did not think it necessary, and with the greatest respect, the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) has undermined his own case, because only in circumstances in which claims that ought to be paid have not been paid might there be any adverse impact on the costs of the types of insurance contract that the Bill covers.

I say to the hon. Gentleman and the whole House—to be fair, there is no one but him and the Opposition Whip on the Opposition Benches—that in this day and age, I am pleased to see the Bill before us. It is not only long overdue, and perhaps I shall speak to that on Third Reading, but it is inconceivable either that it will remove products from the market or add greatly to the costs of the type of insurance contract that it is designed to cover. I cannot help feeling that the hon. Gentleman will not wish to press the new clause to a Division.

[Chris Leslie]

I hear the hon. and learned Gentleman’s points, and I do not wish in any way to denigrate the importance of the Bill—it is an extremely positive and important measure—but the fact that it originated with the Law Commission does not necessarily make it perfect or negate the need for a review. He should not be under that illusion. Just because those fine minds at the Law Commission introduced the Bill does not necessarily mean that we should not scrutinise it.

[Stephen Phillips]

I am not for a moment suggesting that the Bill should not be scrutinised.

Insurance companies ought to pay claims that they have not paid previously as a result of an inadvertent misrepresentation or non-disclosure—everyone wants that change, which is the reason for the Bill. The only way in which the costs of the types of insurance contract that the Bill covers will increase is if claims that ought previously to have been paid—legitimate claims—are paid. Disreputable insurance companies—I venture to suggest that there is none left in this country—currently might decline to pay a claim on a specious basis. For that reason, the review proposed in the new clause is unnecessary. I anticipate that the Government will not wish to carry it out, and the hon. Gentleman is rather hoist on his own petard because of the argument he has made in support of the Bill.