Cyber Security and Resilience (Network and Information Systems) Bill (Sixth sitting) Debate
Full Debate: Read Full DebateChris Vince
Main Page: Chris Vince (Labour (Co-op) - Harlow)Department Debates - View all Chris Vince's debates with the Department for Science, Innovation & Technology
(4 days, 13 hours ago)
Public Bill Committees
Kanishka Narayan
The hon. Member raises a very important point. We want Parliament to play an important role in the scrutiny of the overarching regime as a whole, but particularly in the operation of the statement. Perhaps I can break it into two parts: scrutiny of the statement in the first instance, and scrutiny of regulators’ compliance with the statement. Once a draft statement has been consulted on, the Government will be required to lay it before Parliament, and that will be subject to the negative procedure. Parliament will have 40 days to scrutinise the proposed statement and express disagreement with it, which is very similar to the procedure for statements of strategic priorities in other areas—not least online safety. In terms of confidence in Parliament about actions that regulators have taken, the Secretary of State will be required to publish an annual report setting out, in general terms, the activity undertaken by regulators in the prior 12 months, alongside activity planned for the following 12 months. My expectation is that, very similarly, Parliament will have sight of that, and have the ability to scrutinise it and ask questions of the Secretary of State in the usual way.
Kanishka Narayan
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow for his affirmation of that important point of parliamentary scrutiny.
As I mentioned, the report in question will set out how NIS regulators have sought and will seek to achieve the objectives in the statement through the exercise of their regulatory functions. The clause requires the Secretary of State to lay the annual report before Parliament, as well as to publish it in an appropriate manner. Clause 28 also introduces information-gathering powers for the Secretary of State so that they can collect the necessary information from regulators to draft the report. I commend the clauses to the Committee.
Kanishka Narayan
First, I will provide some context for agreement. We want more people to be trained in cyber-security so that they can serve in the public and private sectors. Through the Bill, as well as a range of other initiatives, we are making sure that at every stage of the pipeline, there is resourcing, confidence and a demand signal that so more people can benefit from cyber-skills and serve in the industry.
There is a clear financing path for regulators to at least start to hire. Earlier in the pipeline, we are looking at a series of cyber-skills programmes all the way from schools through CyberFirst—I think about 415,000 students have gone through that programme. Ultimately, we want to create a long-term pipeline so that regulators and private companies can make the most of those skills.
Chris Vince
I am going to mention Harlow, because Harlow has young people with amazing potential. The point that the shadow Minister and other Opposition Members have made is really important. We need to make sure that this and the next generation of young people are trained up in these skills, because this is an emerging threat. I encourage the Minister to promote the Bill and what the Government are doing in cyber-security, because it is important that the wider public know that these important skills and jobs are available.
Kanishka Narayan
I am, of course, very happy to take on my hon. Friend’s recommendation that I be the promoter and ambassador for the Bill across the country. I am only sad not to have been invited to visit his constituency in the act of promoting said Bill, but I take his point seriously.
On the broader point about skills, I entirely agree with both my hon. Friend and the Opposition in recognising that skills are central to the enforcement of the programme. I hope that the funding and the earlier focus on skills across the life cycle give some assurance that the Government are committed to that.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 25 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 26 to 28 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 29
Regulations relating to security and resilience of network and information systems
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Chris Vince
The shadow Minister will forgive me for taking the opportunity to defend the Government and the Prime Minister; I was not expecting to do that in this Committee this week. I reassure Members across the House that this Prime Minister and Government put national security first. The shadow Minister will know that intelligence agencies have been consulted about the relocation of the Chinese embassy. He will also be aware that the proposed new site at Royal Mint Court is actually further away from this place than the current site.
Frankly, I find it astounding that, according to my understanding, in response to the planning decision being granted our security services said that they would take measures to start moving sensitive digital cables. It strikes me that a decision about sensitive digital cables should have been pertinent to the planning application in the first place.
The Government remain reluctant to name China as a threat to UK national security, despite the overwhelming and growing portfolio of evidence. In case the Government are still in any doubt, we need look only at the oral testimony given to this Committee by the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China for a clear picture of the role of China and its state affiliates at the forefront of the cyber-security threats to our critical sectors.
Given that established and growing threat, new clause 3 would compel the Secretary of State to review, among other matters, the cyber-security risk to surrounding critical networks in the vicinity of the super-embassy site in the City of London. In the Commons debate on the embassy application in June last year, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) reminded the Minister for Housing and Planning that the Government’s own cyber-security experts, Innovate UK, have warned about the threat to the City of London from the embassy. My hon. Friend made specific reference to the Wapping telephone and internet exchange that would be surrounded on three sides by this new embassy—not to mention the fibre cables I referred to earlier, which carry highly sensitive information and run beneath this site.
Chris Vince
I recognise that the shadow Minister cares passionately about the security of this country—as do I, which is why we are discussing the Bill. But does he not recognise that the site was purchased by the Chinese Government in 2018? There is a potential threat whether or not the new embassy is built there.
I do not want to repeat the discussion that we had a moment ago. I think it is complete lunacy to permit the building of a super-embassy—one of the biggest in the region—next to highly critical data transmission. I am also concerned by media reports that the Prime Minister’s recent visit to China was greenlighted only following the final approval of the embassy. I am deeply depressed that, following the visit, Jimmy Lai has been effectively sentenced for life. I respect the tone and constructive way in which the hon. Member for Harlow approaches this debate, but it is fair to say that the Government are sadly weak on standing up to hostile state actors such as the Chinese Communist party.
As I said at the start, there is simply no point in granting the Secretary of State powers to issue directions on the basis of national security if the Government are not willing to be clear-eyed about the most critical cyber-security risks to the nation. I therefore submit that the new clauses are a vital addition to the Bill to focus the attentions of the Secretary of State to ensure that her functions under part 4 are carried out in the best interests of our national security. No responsible Government would or should vote against such provisions. Parliament should make it crystal clear that the Chinese Communist party is a threat to the United Kingdom. We must support new clauses 2 and 3.
Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.— (Taiwo Owatemi.)