Conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

Wednesday 10th December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

On the topic of the NHS, the point I made in the previous debate is really important. The investment in the NHS is not just an investment in buildings; it is an investment in people, including working people. I have lots of people in my constituency who are self-employed—sole traders, as we call them. Does my right hon. Friend agree that those people having to wait years for an NHS appointment is bad for the economy and bad for their pockets?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that although improving the NHS is a clear priority, because of all of our experiences and because of our reliance on it to keep ourselves and our families healthy. Investing in the NHS is also an economic investment, because people being out of the workforce due to ill health is a serious drag on our economy—that is the situation we inherited from the previous Government. Our investment in the health service and our desire to get the NHS back on its feet is the right thing to do, not just for families across the country but for economic growth.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Murray]

I think the hon. Gentleman is incorrect in what he said. He said that I may have implied the premature publication was deliberate; I certainly did not. It is none the less a serious matter, which is why we are responding to it with the commensurate seriousness that it deserves. We know that the OBR rightly took responsibility for this mistake, and soon afterwards—while we were discussing the matter at these Dispatch Boxes last Monday—its chair, Richard Hughes, resigned. That, of course, is a matter for Mr Hughes, and is his decision. The Chancellor wrote to him to thank him for his professionalism and dedication. Many Members and I have made clear our gratitude for his work as a public servant. Nonetheless, it was a serious breach, and the Government are acting with seriousness in response.

[Chris Vince]

I read the OBR report with interest. One of its recommendations that caught my attention was this:

“We recommend that the process for publishing the EFOs…should immediately be removed from the locally managed website and conducted in an environment more appropriate to the nature of the task”.

May I ask the Chief Secretary, or his Treasury colleagues, to find out whether “immediately” means that that has been done?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that the OBR’s report contains a series of recommendations. It was, in fact, published within a few days of the premature publication. We are acting on its recommendations, including the recommendation that we should determine whether this has happened before, at previous fiscal events. While the OBR indicated that it might have happened earlier this year, at the time of the spring statement, it did not look into previous fiscal events, either under this Chancellor or under Chancellors in the last Government. We are looking into that to find out what happened.

More widely, beyond the EFO and the OBR, we put the utmost weight on Budget security, as I told the House last week. That is why, as I have told the House, a leak inquiry is under way, with the full support of the Chancellor and the whole team at the Treasury. In addition, the permanent secretary to the Treasury will conduct a review of its security processes, which will inform future fiscal events. The Budget security review will happen in the new year, and we will publish the outcome once it has concluded. More immediately, however, while recognising the seriousness of what happened with the OBR’s forecast, we remain fully committed to working with an independent OBR, and we recognise its vital role as a core part of our fiscal framework. The Government will soon launch a competitive external recruitment process to appoint a new chair, subject to the consent of the Treasury Committee. In the meantime, Professor David Miles and Tom Josephs will jointly lead the OBR until the new chair is in place.

I am happy to come here every day to explain the decisions that we took in the Budget in the interests of the British people. It is clear that the Conservatives do not want to talk about £150 off energy bills, freezes in prescription charges and rail fares, our investment in our NHS, and the fact that we are cutting debt. They do not want to confront the fact that this is a Budget that not only delivers for Britain, but does so in challenging times. It is a Budget that invests in Britain, supports the NHS, helps people with the cost of living, and gets our debt and borrowing down. It is a Budget delivered by a Chancellor who takes challenges head-on, makes the right decisions for our country, and meets the priorities of the British people. It is a Budget from a Government who will not let Britain’s future be defined by the failures of Governments past. This is a Budget that we are proud of, and we reject the Opposition motion.

Office for Budget Responsibility Forecasts

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

Monday 1st December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am shocked to be picked so early, but I appreciate it.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. The premature publishing of the OBR report is very disappointing; I think Members across the House can agree on that. It is particularly disappointing for me and for residents in Harlow, because it detracts from a Budget that makes a real difference to families in my constituency by freezing rail fares, freezing prescription charges, lowering waiting times for the NHS and—as the House knows, an area I am particularly concerned about—tackling tax evasion.

[James Murray]

Not only is my hon. Friend an excellent advocate for tackling tax avoidance and evasion, but he is absolutely right to point to the fact that what is important for people across this country is that this Budget cuts the cost of living, cuts NHS waiting lists and cuts Government borrowing.

Budget: Press Briefings

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

Monday 17th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

As I have said, there is always noise and speculation ahead of a Budget, but I will not engage in speculation about what the Chancellor will announce on 26 November, because that is when she will set it all out.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I promise the Chamber that I will not repeat any of the stories about my mum’s career in His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. However, the Minister will know that I take tax evasion very seriously. He will be aware that it costs the Treasury billions of pounds each year. I appreciate that he cannot speculate on what will be in the Budget, but will he commit his Department to looking seriously at how we tackle tax evasion, with serious investment in HMRC?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right that I cannot speculate on the contents of the Budget, but I can thank his mother for her years of service to HMRC. I can also reassure her, him and the whole House that tackling tax avoidance and evasion and closing the tax gap is a top priority for the Government.

Stamp Duty Land Tax

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

Tuesday 28th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

What I find it impossible to believe from the Conservatives is that they now have a shadow Chancellor who claims to have a plan for £23 billion of welfare cuts, when he himself presided over the biggest increase in welfare spending in decades when he was the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. That is the record that gives him no credibility whatsoever in this debate.

In their motion, the Conservatives also claim that they want

“to get Britain working, to grow the economy and to give people a stronger stake in their communities”.

Yet they spend their whole time trying to claim that Britain is broken. They have joined the ranks of those who are trying to co-opt our flag for their own ends by claiming that it is in tatters. I cannot believe that so many who claim to be proud of our country are so willing to talk it down. Our country is not broken; we are a great country, filled with great people and great businesses. We are willing to roll up our sleeves and work together for a greater future. However, it is clear that many people across our country feel stuck. Under the last Government, our economy stalled, our public services were starved and opportunities dried up.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister is always generous with his time—I thank him for giving way—and I am always smiling in the Chamber, as the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) will know. Conservative Members seem to be suffering from collective amnesia. Will my right hon. Friend remind me if the national debt went up or down under the last Government? [Interruption.]

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to the Conservatives’ record. [Interruption.] In 2010, I think the national debt was about 67% of GDP, but it was about 100% by the time that they left office.

Property Taxes

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

Wednesday 3rd September 2025 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I gently remind the hon. Member that council tax—a tax on property—exists in this country, so the principle of applying some taxes to property is well established in the UK, and has been for some time. She is trying to tempt me to engage in more speculation, but as I said to the shadow Chancellor, I am not going to engage in speculation about what may or may not be in the Budget.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for giving way—he is always very generous with his time—and congratulate him on his well-deserved promotion. The Conservatives are not fans of tax, but sadly they are also not fans of supporting public services. Under their Government, thousands of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs compliance officers, including my mum, were made redundant and we were not able to collect the right amount of tax that people owed. Is that partly why this Government inherited such a large financial black hole?

Finance Bill

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, mental health, more broadly, is a priority for this Government. On the policy around VAT on private school fees, the impact on pupils in private schools having to change to a state school is expected to be very limited. The Government estimate that 35,000 pupils—less than 0.5% of all state school pupils—will leave, or never enter, the private sector as a result of this policy. Those movements will take place over a number of years, and only 3,000 pupils are estimated to move within the current academic year. To put that number in context for the hon. Gentleman, every year many pupils move between schools, including between private schools and the state sector. A Department for Education report published in 2022 looking at moves between state schools and out of state schools, found that almost 60,000 moves take place every year. As he will know, pupil numbers in schools fluctuate regularly for a number of reasons, and the school funding system in England is already set up to manage that.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my hon. Friend not think it ironic that Conservative Members are talking about the mental health of students? They did not consider that when they made changes to the state system. As a former teacher, I know the massive impact on young people’s mental health of the Conservative party’s decision to move from lettered grades to numbered grades at short notice, to completely change the syllabus and not to provide the resources or textbooks that teachers needed to teach those courses.

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that the lack of funding that the previous Government put into the state sector has implications. It takes a toll on children if schools are not properly funded. If the capital budgets for schools are not properly funded, as well as their revenue budgets, that has an impact on children’s lives. That is why the funding that we are putting into schools is something for which I will make no apology. The fact that we are having to take difficult decisions to fund it is the nature of government. I note that Conservative Members are happy to support our investment in state schools, but they refuse to support the difficult decisions necessary to generate that funding. Frankly, that underscores how far away they are from even being a credible Opposition.

Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill

Debate between Chris Vince and James Murray

2nd reading
Monday 25th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

As I will explain, the test of “wholly or mainly concerned” is 50% of pupils, or more, having an EHCP specifying that their educational needs can be met only in a private school. I will provide some more detail in a moment.

Of course, the Government have prioritised funding for the state education system in this Budget. The £2.3 billion increase, including a £1 billion uplift in high-needs funding, is possible only because of the difficult decisions that we have taken on taxation, including in the Bill.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister agree that the Budget’s prioritisation of state schools should be welcomed? I have talked to teachers in Harlow and, under this Labour Government, they feel hope for the first time in 14 years. Is it not shocking that the Conservative party is still bemoaning the removal of tax exemptions from private schools, rather than focusing on the mainstream education attended by 96% of children?

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right that we, as a Government, are focused on improving state education for children across the country, because we know that every parent aspires for their child to get the best possible education. That is what our plans seek to achieve, and I would welcome it if the Opposition supported our efforts for the good of children across the country.

Members will have the chance to scrutinise the detail of this Bill in Committee, but I will now spend a few moments outlining how the Bill’s provisions are intended to operate.