Football Governance Bill [ Lords ] (Seventh sitting)

Clive Betts Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 12th June 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 94, in clause 43, page 34, line 38, at end insert—

“(e) following the revocation by the IFR of the club’s operating licence under clause 19 or under paragraph 9 of Part 1 of Schedule 9.”

I am pleased to see you in the Chair again, Ms Butler; it is a pleasure to have you presiding over us. The amendment is fairly simple, and I hope the Minister will consider it. Clause 43 is quite an important clause, because it deals with the removal of ownership. Ownership, in the end, is of a private asset. A club is a public good for the fan base, but in the end, it is owned by an individual or a corporate entity. The clause provides the regulator with a power, not a duty, to remove owners in certain circumstances if appropriate. All my amendment would do is add the revocation of a club’s operating licence to the circumstances in which the regulator can act. In other words, if the club does not have an operating licence, should not that be a factor that allows, but not forces, the regulator to deal with the ownership of the club?

[Stephanie Peacock]

I thank my hon. Friend for his amendment. We have seen far too many examples of the damage that can be caused by unsuitable custodians of clubs, and that is why the Bill introduces a strengthened owners and directors test.

I believe that my hon. Friend hopes that the amendment will give reassurance to fans that, where a club fails to comply with regulation and loses its licence as a result, the regulator will be able to remove the owner. The aim is to hold those responsible to account. Let me reassure my hon. Friend that the regulator is already empowered to hold individuals to account for their actions. If the club’s non-compliance or its financial situation gives the regulator concern about the owner’s suitability, it can test them, and they could be failed on that basis. If they are found to be unsuitable, the regulator will have the power to remove them. That ability to isolate and remove unsuitable owners and officers should mean that a club never has to have its licence suspended or revoked on the basis of poor ownership. That means that a club’s fans should not have to suffer the consequences of bad leadership.

The revocation of a club’s licence is the very last resort. We hope the regulator will never have to do that, but I reassure my hon. Friend that if a club is so seriously and consistently non-compliant that the regulator has no choice but to revoke its licence, we would expect the regulator to consider very carefully whether any responsibility for that failure can be laid at the owner’s door, and if the owner is tested and found unsuitable, they can be removed on that basis. We believe that the Bill’s provisions are sufficient to protect fans and hold owners to account where necessary. We hope that they will ensure that a licence is never revoked.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephanie Peacock]

I will address that point in just a moment.

As a club’s licence is separate from its owners, the licence is held directly by the club itself, not its owners. The removal of an owner will not impact the club’s licence status. This ability to isolate and remove unsuitable and owners and officers should mean that a club never has to have its licence suspended or revoked because of its owner, which means that a club’s fans should not have to suffer the consequences of bad leadership.

We hope that a club losing its licence will be the very last resort, and an unsuitable owner will have to follow the removal order made by the regulator. It will be in the best interests of an unsuitable owner to sell their stake in a club before the regulator has to step in to force divestment and a sale at no minimum price. If the owner fails to comply with this order, the regulator will have enforcement powers that it can use to ensure compliance.

These powers will include a variety of sanctions against the individuals calling shots at the club and, where necessary, directly against the club itself. Where appropriate, the regulator will also be able to seek an injunction from the courts. Having this broad range of tools of escalating severity at its disposal will allow the regulator to take strong action as and when required. For those reasons, I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East will withdraw his amendment.

[Mr Betts]

Sometimes the Minister has partially satisfied me with her responses; this time she has wholly satisfied me. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 44 stand part.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Betts]

I want to raise one small point with the Minister. Some time ago, when we debated clause 6, I raised the ability of the regulator to take a view about the impact of new competitions, particularly the world club championship, on the legacy of important domestic competitions like the FA cup. Those competitions will now be constrained for time, with replays being abolished, because a few clubs had to go and do more things in Europe, depriving the majority of clubs of their traditional way of playing in competitions. The Minister’s answer at the time was that a regulator cannot deal with competition matters.

The headings for part 5 and clause 45 include the word “competition”. Indeed, the fan-led review came about because of the European super league, and the then Prime Minister deciding it was so awful that we needed to do something about it. Given that competition can be looked at by the regulator, does the Minister want to have another think, perhaps before Report, about whether, without putting this in the Bill, the regulator should be able to consider such matters, when clubs’ finances and their fanbases’ enjoyment are particularly affected by a competition for a few that prevents more competition for the many?

[Mr French]

The hon. Member for Sheffield South East has stolen some of my lines. As always, he picked up the ball and put it in the net, as would be expected of the chair of the football all-party parliamentary group. There are inconsistencies in what is being discussed, and he was right to highlight them.

Clause 45 introduces a legal duty on clubs not to enter or operate a team in a competition deemed to be prohibited by the regulator. As has been discussed, the clause is clearly a response to the threat posed by breakaway leagues such as the attempted European super league a few seasons ago. While the intention behind the duty is understandable—to protect the structure and integrity of English football—the mechanism raises serious questions about competition and proportionality, as the hon. Gentleman just touched on.

First, on the principle, we agree that the pyramid structure of English football must be preserved wherever possible. Promotion and relegation are sacred principles of our game, and competition on and off the pitch must be upheld. The competitive nature of English football is what makes it so great. This season, certainly in the Premier League, has probably been slightly dimmer because it has been perceived to have not such great competition for the Championship and in relegation, as things were determined quite early in the season.

The Opposition have some sympathy with, in particular, the National League’s 3UP campaign, which has sought to close the gap between the National League and League Two. If we are looking at how to close the gap between the Premier League and the Championship, which has been the main argument from proponents of the Bill, we must also look at the bottom half of the pyramid to see how that competition can also be improved. That is a principle of fairness and competition for which I have a lot of sympathy.

--- Later in debate ---

Duty not to dispose etc of home ground without approval

[Mr Betts]

I beg to move amendment 87, in clause 46, page 38, line 26, leave out first “home ground” and insert “specified properties”.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 88, in clause 46, page 38, line 26, leave out second “home ground” and insert “specified properties”.

Amendment 89, in clause 46, page 38, line 27, leave out “home ground” and insert “specified properties”.

Amendment 90, in clause 46, page 38, line 28, leave out “home ground” and insert “specified properties”.

Amendment 86, in clause 46, page 39, line 11, leave out subsection (10) and insert—

“(10) In this section, ‘specified properties’—

(a) in relation to a body that is a regulated club, means the ground at which a relevant team operated by it customarily plays its home matches, the property at which a relevant team customarily trains and any other properties that make up a more than negligible part of the relevant team’s operations;

(b) in relation to a body that is a formerly regulated club, means (immediately before it ceased to be a regulated club) the ground at which a relevant team operated by it customarily played its home matches, the property at which a relevant team customarily trained and any other properties that make or made up a more than negligible part of the relevant team’s operations.”

[Mr Betts]

The purpose of this group of amendments is to introduce a wider definition of a club’s home ground that includes the training ground, which is how the different amendments link together. Amendment 86 sets out the wider definition that is then used in the other amendments. In the end, in this day and age, most professional clubs cannot survive with just a home ground and need additional facilities. If those additional facilities are sold off, the club can become unviable. That is what some unscrupulous owners will seek to do, because sometimes the training ground is the most valuable asset in potential for development.

[Mr Dillon]

The hon. Gentleman’s amendments find support from the Liberal Democrats. He referenced training grounds, and Reading football club’s training ground, Bearwood Park, was actually in that exact position. The owner tried to sell it off because it was prime land for residential development. However, without that training facility, the club would clearly struggle to continue. There was even the potential to sell the training ground to rivals Wycombe Wanderers, so that they could then have an enhanced training ground. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Liberal Democrats have tabled new clause 11, which seeks to protect various assets of a football club, including the training ground, so he has our support.

[Mr Betts]

I hope the Minister can take this seriously; it is a worry that the Bill does not quite go far enough at present. The reality is that this legislation tries to deal with bad owners and anticipate how they might behave. The more restrictions that we can build around bad behaviour, and possibilities for controlling it, the better.

[Lincoln Jopp]

I appreciate the desire to legislate for bad owners, but is the hon. Gentleman not concerned about good owners who might find money very tight? They have assets beyond the home ground and team itself that they might have to consider selling, including a training ground, to remain financially viable and therefore be on the right side of the regulator in their business plan. Is he not concerned that, by extending even further the regulator’s purview into all properties, he might overly constrain good owners from doing what they want to save their clubs?

[Mr Betts]

I do not believe that is the case. I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern, but I think what we are saying here is that this gives the regulator the power to look at that situation. The worry is that some owners will try to exploit not for good football purposes but because they can see themselves making a profit on the side. That can damage the competitive ability of the clubs that they own. Unfortunately, some owners take that capricious view, and it is for them that we must legislate. I do not believe my amendments would adversely affect good owners, as I do not think the Bill does either.

[Mr French]

I am intrigued by the hon. Gentleman’s amendments. Similar sympathies apply to the situation at Reading, which is also still the case at Charlton’s Sparrows Lane training ground, which is owned not by the current owners but by two owners ago, as is the stadium. How would the hon. Gentleman’s amendments work with regards to the Everton example, where Goodison is now to be used for the women’s game? How would his amendments cover those kinds of properties? An owner might want to sell the women’s ground, even though the women’s game is technically outside the scope of the regulator.

[Mr Betts]

At this stage, my amendments cover the facilities that are within the scope of the regulator, so I do not think they apply to any properties that are outside the scope of the regulator. Obviously, the regulator cannot deal with things outside its scope.

I hope the Minister might give some consideration, even if the wording of my amendments are not absolutely right, to how the Bill can be better drafted to cover the point. Straying slightly on to amendment 83, there is a similar point about trying to ensure that, where there is a sale of certain assets, before they are sold, suitable alternatives are in place so that the club does not potentially lose its licence, as it has nowhere to play and train. I appreciate that I have strayed there; you have been very considerate, Ms Butler, in helping me to do that. I just thought it would help move proceedings along.

[The Chair]

We will come to amendment 83 later on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephanie Peacock]

I do not want to get drawn into hypotheticals. As we previously discussed, there might be a perfectly legitimate reason for a club to move—or to move temporarily, such as for flooding. It is not an absolute power. We want to give the regulator discretion when clubs may need that for legitimate reasons. The amendment speaks to where we think clubs are asset stripping or acting in bad faith.

We would expect the power to include assets remaining in the club’s ownership and any plans to change its financial arrangements. It would be at odds with the sustainability of a football club for there to be no home ground or location to train. It is therefore implicit that the regulator would address that.

[Mr Betts]

Does that mean that if the regulator felt that an owner was proposing to divest themselves or the club of a training ground that could influence the club’s financial sustainability and competitiveness, it could act to prevent that before the sale was completed?

[Stephanie Peacock]

Yes, I believe that there is provision in the Bill to do that. For those reasons, I ask my hon. Friend to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephanie Peacock]

Can I write to the hon. Gentleman on that point?

[Mr Betts]

The Minister is doing quite well today: she has satisfied me once again. I am reassured that the regulator does have the power that I sought to put in the Bill, so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Mr Betts]

I beg to move amendment 83, in clause 46, page 39, line 2, at end insert—

“(ii) in the case of the home ground and training ground, it is satisfied that there are suitable plans in place to ensure the club’s continued long-term use of the home ground or training ground or to secure an alternative home ground or training ground for the next football season;

(iii) in the case of a home ground, it is satisfied that any alternative under sub-paragraph (ii) will have been actively approved by the club’s fans domiciled in England and Wales if any of the following non-exhaustive factors represent a significant upheaval of the connection between the fans of a club and the club: proximity to home ground, proximity to other clubs' grounds, journey time for fans and any other factors that the Regulator deems relevant;”

I have a simple question for the Minister. If the regulator decides that a sale can go ahead, is the power there to allow it to be satisfied that there are suitable plans to ensure that the club will have long-term use of a home ground and training ground? That may not be the ground it had before, but there must at least be a replacement. Does the regulator have the power to ensure that?

[Stephanie Peacock]

I thank my hon. Friend tabling the amendment. It seeks a number of things: extending the clause to include training grounds; guaranteeing long-term use of home grounds and/or training grounds; and introducing parameters for home ground relocation. If it is helpful, I will address those briefly, but I appreciate that this debate is similar to the one we just had.

On extending the scope of the clause to include training grounds, the Bill has carved out specific protections to safeguard home grounds against risky financial decisions or the sale of grounds. As I said in the previous debate, that is to reflect the home ground being the club’s most important asset. It does not mean that other assets, such as training grounds or office space, are not important.

I understand that, as we have discussed, the amendment is really focused on asset stripping. As I have alluded to—I will be a bit clearer and perhaps more explicit—the regulator has the power to attach discretionary licence conditions. Therefore, on the point about needing a training ground, I believe that the regulator could apply a temporary or particular licence condition on a club.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephanie Peacock]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I draw his attention to the discretionary licensing addition that I have referred to: the regulator can react to different situations. I do not want to be drawn on individual cases, nor do I want to pre-empt the actions of the regulator.

[Mr Betts]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Mr Betts]

I beg to move amendment 84, page 39, line 5, at end insert—

“(c) in the case of a disposal under subsection (1)(a), it has taken reasonable steps to establish that the majority of the club’s fans domiciled in England and Wales approve of the disposal.”

[The Chair]

With this, it will be convenient to discuss amendment 85, page 39, line 5, at end insert—

“(6A) Before the IFR grants an approval under subsection 6 it must—

(a) consult the supporters of the body in question, the relevant competition organisers and persons representing the local community with which the body is associated, and

(b) have regard to the views expressed by those consulted.”

[Mr Betts]

I really do not understand the way in which the Bill is written at present; perhaps the Minister can help me with that.

We will come on to clause 48, which is about the relocation of a club; of course, that means moving grounds. As set out in clause 48 4(c) and (d), there is a specific requirement on the club to consult with fans. We can have another discussion at some point—we may do—about consultation with which fans and which groups. I still think that this is a challenging issue that we need more clarity about.

Clause 46 is about the disposal of a ground, which is a very emotive subject for fans. It may not be the wrong decision to relocate, and clubs can relocate and take their fans with them, with proper involvement; the Everton example is probably in that category. However, there is no requirement at all to consult the fans on the potential sale of a ground. That seems to be a big omission in the Bill. Fans would not have a veto, because it is understood that sometimes there are very good commercial reasons as to why a club needs to move, which can be accepted and explained to the regulator.

Therefore, I am not saying that the disposal of a ground has to get the full approval of the fans, but surely there should be a measure whereby the fans are at least consulted and their views taken into account before the home ground of a club, where the club may have played for 100 years, is disposed of. That would not be inappropriate.

[Stephanie Peacock]

I thank my hon. Friend for tabling the amendments. Home grounds are a vital asset for all clubs, so I do understand his intent.

Regarding changes to the ownership of a home ground, the potential adverse outcomes are entirely financial. We do not believe that they impact the heritage of the club, which is why clause 46 does not require any heritage consideration or fan engagement. Additionally, decisions about the financial arrangements of a home ground are commercial decisions and therefore we do not think it is appropriate to legislate on them. However, I will reassure my hon. Friend that if the sale of a club’s home ground would result in the relocation of the club, fans absolutely have to be consulted about that, as per clause 48, which we will discuss later. We know how much home grounds matter to fans and communities, but this clause is purely about protecting a club’s financial position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Betts]

Is the Minister saying, then, that a club owner could sell the ground without even consulting the fans—just present it as a fait accompli—and then, because there would not be a home ground to play on and the club might have to relocate, at that point they could say to the fans, “Well, the ground’s gone; we’re now going to ask you whether you want to move.”? There seems to be a gap in the thinking somewhere.

[Stephanie Peacock]

I appreciate that point, but the sale of home grounds is a primarily financial decision, separate from the decision about where the club actually plays its games. That is why there is currently no requirement to consult or obtain approval. If the club has not actually relocated, it would be caught in clause 48 and would be required to consult fans. We will come on to discuss that later.

[Stephanie Peacock]

I appreciate the comments that have been made, and I will take them away and reflect on them, but I ask my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East at this point to withdraw his amendment.

[Mr Betts]

The Minister has taken a very sensible approach. I accept that accepting an amendment here and now, out of the blue, is not how Government operate; but there is a lack of consistency between the two clauses, so I appreciate her agreeing to go and have a look at them. She has not committed to a change, but she has agreed to have a look, and that is very helpful. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Stephanie Peacock]

As discussed during the debate on the previous amendments, clause 46 serves as an important protection for the home ground of a club. It requires clubs to gain the approval of the regulator prior to any sale or use of the home ground as collateral. A home ground is often one of the most vital and valuable assets a club can own. If it is used as collateral for debt or sold off, that can impact a club’s financial position by weakening the balance sheet. Not owning the stadium may also threaten a club’s long-term financial sustainability.

This clause requires clubs who own their ground to obtain the approval of the regulator prior to any sale or use as collateral. The regulator will consider the risk to the financial sustainability of the proposed transaction and block any potentially financially damaging sale of a club’s home ground. This applies to regulated clubs and also to any club regulated within the last five years, which prevents bad actors from being able to circumvent regulation by leaving regulated leagues in order to skirt protections and strip assets. It recognises the important role that football grounds play in the financial sustainability of clubs and adds protections against bad actors.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 46 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 47

Duty not to appoint administrator without approval

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.