European Council

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

No, it does not. Of course, the European Union will have set its particular guidelines. We are going into negotiation with it. We have already set out ways in which we can ensure that there is no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and we will go into detailed discussion on those.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the progress made thus far in the withdrawal negotiations, but can she confirm that it remains her position that no deal is better than a bad deal, and that all necessary preparations are being made for such an eventuality?

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, I assure my right hon. Friend that we are ensuring that we are preparing for all eventualities.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the recently launched West and Wales strategic rail prospectus contains sensible proposals that would, if adopted, significantly improve rail connectivity in north Wales and that they should receive favourable consideration by the Government?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his hard work in this area, because cross-border connectivity is extremely important. It demonstrates how integrated the network is. There are significant investments already taking place across the north Wales network, including improvements to signalling, as well as the Halton curve, which has already been referred to. Any additions to the debate, however, are interesting, and we will look at them in due course.

Brexit Negotiations

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. and learned Lady started off by referencing the issue of the status of this joint progress report. It is a joint progress report on the agreements that have been reached so far in the negotiations, which has enabled the European Commission to determine that sufficient progress has been made to pass on to the next stage of negotiations. Further details on certain aspects of withdrawal will need to be determined as we go ahead in the coming months, alongside the work on the implementation period and the future partnership with the European Union. As I have said on a number of occasions, that withdrawal agreement will be put into legislation here in this House.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate the Prime Minister on what has been achieved thus far, which we must hope will translate into mutually beneficial withdrawal and trade agreements, but given that that cannot be guaranteed, will she give instructions for the sum set aside by the Chancellor in his Budget last month to be expended on upgrading our customs infrastructure, in order to secure smooth international trade after Brexit and reassure business in this country?

[The Prime Minister]

As my right hon. Friend knows, in addition to the £700 million already allocated by the Treasury to the current year for the changes that will be needed for the contingency arrangements to be put in place, £3 billion was put forward in the autumn Budget. That will be allocated to Departments, obviously, according to their need and requirement. On the specific issue of customs arrangements, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is moving forward on them, and will have in place what is necessary in order for us to have a customs system when we leave the European Union.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

David Jones Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman]

I have already given way quite a lot. If the hon. and learned Lady does not mind, I am going to crack on now. She will have a chance to make her own speech, and I look forward to listening to it.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

rose—

[Jenny Chapman]

I will give way one last time, to the former Minister.

[Mr Jones]

Pursuing the same point, does the hon. Lady not accept that new clause 64(3), having provided that there should be no new frameworks created without the agreement of the devolved Administrations, would be a recipe for chaos, on the basis that if there were no such agreement, it would be impossible to create the frameworks that she seems to acknowledge as so desirable?

[Jenny Chapman]

The Joint Ministerial Committee said that it wanted frameworks to be created in this way, I think at the time when the right hon. Gentleman was a Minister, so I really do not understand what his objection is today.

We need look no further than Wales to learn of the practical benefits of devolution. It is right that Cardiff should decide the best way to support farmers in Wales, within an agreed framework but according to their needs and priorities. Jobs Growth Wales has so far supported the employment of 17,000 young people using European funding. That decision would not have been possible if the arrangements proposed by the Government had been in place at the time. When I was first elected, the Tories and the Lib Dems scrapped the almost identical future jobs fund in 2010. Such decisions were devolved for good reason, and we will support the devolved Administrations in keeping them. Amendments 42 and 337, alongside new clause 64, would allow the Government until the end of the transitional arrangements to create UK frameworks.

I want to make it clear to the Minister that in tabling these new clauses and amendments, Labour is attempting to assist the Government by enabling the devolved Administrations to be engaged in decisions that have a direct impact on their people. If the Government accept our criticisms and proposed improvements, Ministers will find that they have a less turbulent time in the months ahead. Do the Government really think that it is wise to pass a Bill to which the devolved Administrations are so hostile? Ministers need to focus on negotiating the best possible deal for all the people of the UK, not on embroiling themselves in constitutional rows with Edinburgh and Cardiff.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hywel Williams]

The hon. Gentleman has made that point already, and I agree with it.

In contrast to the EU internal market, the nature of the UK internal market appears to be self-evident and a matter of common sense to many people. It might be great and it might be something that has grown organically and suits us all, but how often have we seen apparently simple, clear and—crucially—unregulated systems descend into a writhing tangle of irreconcilable and conflicting interests? That is what might happen. We might wish for a simple UK internal market, but we might regret it if we wish for it. We will vote for new clause 64 but, if it is passed, we will give close consideration to how it could be improved through further amendments.

Subsidiarity is supposedly one of the governing principles of the European Union. Powers are supposed to be exercised as close to the citizen as possible. That model does not exist in the UK, where the UK Government remain sovereign. We rely on the separation of competences listed in the newly enshrined reserved powers model in the recently passed Wales Act 2017. This Bill, as it stands, undermines and reverses 20 years of the existence of the National Assembly for Wales.

Professor Rawlings, the professor of public law at University College London, in evidence to the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee on 31 October, highlighted the concern over what he describes as the double-hatted nature of the UK Government, meaning that they simultaneously represent the UK-wide Government and the Government of England. I raised that point during my speech on our first day in Committee. As I said earlier, this raises a concern not only about conflicts of interest, but about the fact that the subcultures, networks and assumptions of large Departments, including the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, are focused, almost unconsciously, on England. That has been a recurring theme throughout Select Committee evidence sessions. As I said with reference to the Department of Health, this is a long-standing difficulty.

In evidence to the Brexit Committee on 17 October, Laura Dunlop, QC said:

“In our prototype framework—whatever our internal market is destined to look like—at the moment, there is one party in the discussions that is wearing two hats, and that is the UK Government, who are also required to speak for England. That is a significant difficulty, in my view.”

The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West and I were there to hear Laura Dunlop say that. On 24 October, Dr Viviane Gravey told the Welsh Affairs Committee:

“What I mean by giving greater powers is that during that period planned in the Withdrawal Bill, UK Ministers will be able to change the law that has been given back from Brussels, but the devolved”

Governments

“will not. There is then a question of whether any changes made will be in the interests of the whole of the UK or just of England.”

That is the question.

The United Kingdom consists of four countries—four political bodies—not just one. Democracy requires and values all voices, not just one. Devolution demands that all countries within the United Kingdom have a say in the future, not just one. Members will have the opportunity today to stop this Westminster power grab. If all the Opposition parties turn up to vote, and vote together in the interests of the devolved countries, we can stop this encroachment on Welsh sovereignty and put all four UK countries on an equal footing.

[Mr David Jones]

It is a great pleasure to be asked to address the Committee as a lonely Welsh voice in this Scottish enclave south of the Gangway. I should like to say how impressed I am with my new Scottish colleagues, and with the way in which they stand up for their constituencies and for Scotland.

It was always predictable that clause 11 would be one of the more contentious clauses in the Bill, given that it impinges on the devolution settlements that have been created over the past 20 or so years. When we consider what the clause seeks to achieve, it is important to consider the history of devolution in this country. In the case of Scotland and Wales, it was implemented as a consequence of the two referendums that were held in 1997. That was some years after the United Kingdom became a member of what was then the European Economic Community. Indeed, all our devolution legislation was put in place after we joined. It is important to remember that, at the time of accession to the European Union, devolution was not contemplated.

It was in the context of our membership of the European Union that the various devolution settlements were crafted. The powers that were conferred on the new devolved bodies are consequently subject to overriding EU law, regulations and common frameworks, the principal purpose of which was to protect and preserve the integrity of the European single market, as we have heard repeatedly today. It is a fact, however, that as a consequence of the protection of the European single market, those reservations have operated to protect what I am quite happy to call the UK internal market—

[Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP)]

There is no such thing.

[Mr Jones]

I hear the hon. Gentleman saying from a sedentary position that there is no such thing. The fact is that there is such a thing, and furthermore, after we leave the European Union, the existence of such an internal market will become ever clearer.

[Pete Wishart]

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that France has a French internal market and that Germany has a German internal market, or are they just national economies? Does Perthshire have a Perthshire internal market?

[Mr Jones]

I have never been to Perthshire but I am sure that it is a delightful place. In this country, we have four countries and three devolved bodies, which have competence in the area of economic development, among other things. The hon. Gentleman and I might be at odds on this, but I take the view that there is a United Kingdom internal market. He can come to the contrary conclusion if he wishes.

[Hywel Williams]

I am intrigued. Can the right hon. Gentleman identify anyone who has spoken in the House today who has argued against having a UK internal market?

[Mr Jones]

No, but I can identify several people who have denied its existence. Clause 11 seeks to ensure that the integrity of the internal market is not compromised, by preserving the restrictions that prevail in respect of EU law.

It is quite clear that the proposals in clause 11 have caused immoderate anger in certain quarters. The SNP Scottish First Minister and the Labour Welsh First Minister actually joined forces to describe what is proposed as a “naked power grab”, a phrase which has been repeated again and again during this debate, but the fact is that it is nothing of the kind. The competences that are the subject of the retention proposed by clause 11 have never been exercised by the devolved authorities since devolution was first implemented. In practical terms, not one iota less power will be exercised in Belfast, Cardiff or Edinburgh than in the current state of affairs. If there is a diminution in power, it is very much theoretical.

Since the devolved bodies first condemned the proposals in the summer, it is fair to say that their position has moderated considerably. However, I find it intriguing that that position does not appear to have moderated in this House. Indeed, certain Opposition representatives seem to be at odds with their own parties in the devolved areas. Preserving the UK internal market is, after all, extremely important to every constituent part of the United Kingdom. Some 63% of Scottish exports go to the rest of the UK. For Northern Ireland, the equivalent figure is 60%. In Wales, it is a bit less at 49.2%, but I suggest that that is due to the distorting effect of Airbus exports, which form a disproportionately large element of the Welsh economy. Whichever way one looks at it, it is therefore important to guard against any policy divergence that might imperil or damage the internal market. It is also important to ensure that the UK Government have the power to conclude trade agreements with third countries post-Brexit, free from concern that the devolved authorities may be legislating in a manner contrary to the obligations contained in such agreements.

We have heard this evening that the provisions of clause 11 affect approximately 111 devolved competences in Scotland, 64 in Wales and an estimated 149 in Northern Ireland. Many of them exist in the fields of agriculture, the environment and fisheries, where it is generally agreed, not least by those who would be closely affected by market distortion, that it is necessary to preserve common frameworks. As my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) pointed out, we need to look at the individuals who are most likely to be affected by policy divergence. For example, NFU Cymru—the Welsh branch of the National Farmers Union—supports the retention of common frameworks so that the price commanded by Welsh lamb, which is certainly the highest-quality lamb in the United Kingdom, is not adversely affected by differing husbandry practices in other parts of the UK.

The UK Government have always made it clear that the retention of competence effected by clause 11 is intended to be only temporary. Decisions on where competences may lie in the long term will be taken at a later date. I fully agree that that should not take too long, and a Minister should indicate from the Front Bench what sort of timescale they anticipate the Government will adopt when deciding and agreeing with the devolved Administrations on where those competences should lie.

[Dr Whitford]

That is the problem. There is no timescale. This place is snarled up in dealing with Brexit work, and that pressure will be even greater after Brexit. Those of us from the devolved countries feel that the needs of our farmers and fishermen will be way down the agenda for the devolution work being done here.

[Mr Jones]

I remind the hon. Lady that I am also from one of the devolved countries, so I understand her point and I understand that a timescale is needed. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Brexit has always made it clear that the devolved authorities will ultimately have considerably enhanced powers after this process is complete.

Mr Nigel Smith has been extensively quoted in this debate, and what he has to say is of some significance. He was the chairman of Scotland Forward, the campaign for a yes vote in the 1997 Scottish referendum, and he makes a businesslike and practical statement of the position:

“simply giving into demands from the devolved administrations for a complete takeover of powers would quickly fragment policy coherence threatening the function of the UK single market and even over time the political integrity of these islands.”

That would probably be quite welcome to certain Opposition Members. Nigel Smith continues:

“It would be necessary to establish where coherence was vital and where policy could be devolved or shared. There are also financial considerations in some areas. Temporarily retaining the powers in Westminster through clause 11 while this is assessed and negotiated seems nothing more than procedural common sense. As a long-standing devolutionist, I support the process on this basis.”

He is entirely right. It is common sense. We need to assess where powers properly lie, but that process should not take too long.

I am heartened that, at the Joint Ministerial Committee in October, the various Administrations agreed to work towards the establishment of the necessary frameworks. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) indicated, it is not a question of the United Kingdom Government imposing where those powers lie; it is a question of agreement. The communiqué that followed the meeting said:

“There will also be close working between the UK Government and the devolved administrations on reserved and excepted matters that impact significantly on devolved responsibilities.

Discussions will be either multilateral or bilateral between the UK Government and the devolved administrations. It will be the aim of all parties to agree where there is a need for common frameworks and the content of them.

The outcomes from these discussions on common frameworks will be without prejudice to the UK’s negotiations and future relationship with the EU.”

It seems to me that the United Kingdom Government and the devolved Administrations are moving positively towards agreement on where those competences should lie, but I stress that the process should be pursued as expeditiously as possible. I have a huge amount of sympathy for those on both sides of the House who have indicated that there is currently a degree of uncertainty. The best way of resolving that uncertainty is by working quickly and co-operatively with the devolved Administrations.

I therefore believe clause 11 should be supported by the House. I endorse once again what Nigel Smith, a practical devolutionist, has to say about the matter. I also believe those who are promoting the various amendments, most of which appear to be aimed at ensuring the powers that are repatriated pass straight to the devolved Administrations, should think again. Without a coherent agreement beforehand, there could be chaos in this country, which is frankly the last thing we want.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) made some important points about the wider issue of devolution. We need to revisit the various institutions that operate the devolution settlements in this country. It is fairly clear that the JMC process is not working. It has been honoured by Governments of all stripes more in the breach than in the observance. Indeed, I believe that during the last Labour Government several years passed without a meeting of the JMC. This cannot be right. It is important that the United Kingdom Government and the devolved Administrations should have regular dialogue, one with another. I am not persuaded that that needs to be put on a statutory basis, but it needs to be something more than a chore for the various Administrations. It is important that a dialogue be constantly maintained. We are moving into a new era in this country, a post-Brexit one, and it is important that there should be that constant dialogue and that all Administrations within the UK understand that they all have a duty, one to another, to work positively to ensure the prosperity of this country and its citizens. At the moment, that is not happening and this needs to be revised and reviewed. I do not believe this Bill is the proper vehicle for such changes, but once this process is over we are going to need to look at those institutions again carefully. We need to move into that new era.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

UK Elections: Abuse and Intimidation

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 12th July 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) on securing this debate.

I have stood in six general elections and I can say that, frankly, this was by a long chalk the most unpleasant one in which I have ever participated. I have no doubt at all that much of the behaviour that my hon. Friend outlined was co-ordinated, because the patterns of behaviour that I witnessed in my constituency have been repeated across the country and have been reported to me by a number of colleagues.

One issue that I want to raise, to echo what the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) said, is that of social media. Frankly, if ever there were a misnomer, “social media” is it; it is deeply antisocial media. Twitter, in particular, has a lot to answer for. The anonymity in which a lot of participants on Twitter clothe themselves encourages the sort of behaviour that we have heard about today. Logging on to Twitter nowadays is much like wading through sewage; it is a deeply unpleasant experience. The sort of commentary, abuse and language that one sees on it, which is regularly used against everyone but in particular candidates for election, is the sort of thing that no one would dream of saying to another person face to face.

That is the nub of the issue. We now have this new phenomenon of social media and it has not been adequately addressed. It is certainly not being addressed by the social media companies. My hon. Friend is right: someone who makes a complaint to Twitter gets completely ignored. Twitter, in fact, has a huge amount to answer for, so in the brief time available to me I ask the Minister whether he will please give consideration to the impact that social media have had on the behaviour of many people during the election campaign. What proposals do the Government have to address that, because at the moment anarchic media are causing misery to untold numbers of people, not least colleagues here in this House?

EU Referendum: Civil Service Guidance

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend’s question was focused on what the public think. I believe they will think, “Please can we get on to debating the substance of the question rather than the process of how to make sure that Ministers are allowed, unusually, to depart from the Government position while the constitutional position of the civil service remains in place.”

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Is it true, as reported in The Times this morning, that without the consent or knowledge of the Secretary of State, officials of the DWP carried out research on the instructions of No. 10 to help support the case for remaining in the EU? If that is the case, will the Minister please explain how the Secretary of State can be expected to be responsible for the work of his own Department?

[Matthew Hancock]

These guidelines are restricted to the issues of the question of in/out. It is perfectly normal —it happens all the time—for there to be communications between Departments and No. 10. That is how the Government operate.

European Council

David Jones Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course if we stay in the European Union, British people will continue to be able to work abroad, live abroad and retire abroad, as they do now. It is not for me to set out what would happen to them in different circumstances. I think the leave campaign will want to try to address that point, but people know with certainty what they will get if the remain side wins.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

In his statement, the Prime Minister observed that leaving the EU might briefly make us feel more sovereign. Does he not accept that for many hon. Members, the issue of parliamentary sovereignty will be the central one of the debate in which we are about to engage—namely, that so long as we are subject to the fiat of the European Commission and the European Court of Justice, we will not be truly sovereign, and that very little changed last weekend in that respect?

[The Prime Minister]

What changed last weekend in that respect is that because we are getting out of ever closer union, we now know that we cannot be forced into further political union against our will; that is very important. On this issue of sovereignty, let me repeat that, if we leave the EU, we might feel more sovereign, because we could pass this law or that law, but if we still want to sell into Europe, we have to meet all the rules over which we will have no say. To me, that is a diminution of sovereignty rather than an increase of sovereignty.

ISIL in Syria

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

I am bound to confess that I agreed with very little of what the Leader of the Opposition said in his contribution to this debate, but he was entirely right that whether to send British armed forces into action is possibly the most serious, solemn and morally challenging decision that Members of this House can be asked to make.

The principal questions that Members should consider are those of security, legality and utility. The first question we should ask ourselves is whether the security of this country is under threat. That is certainly the case. The terrorist organisation that dignifies itself by the title Islamic State, but which I am glad to see Members on both sides are now calling Daesh, represents, in the words of Security Council resolution 2249, an

“unprecedented threat to international peace and security”.

That is certainly proving to be the case in this country.

Daesh murderers have already beheaded our fellow citizens in front of TV cameras, and distributed those medieval scenes across the internet. Thirty of our fellow citizens were murdered on the beach at Sousse, and we have heard of seven plots disrupted by the security services. There can be no doubt about the threat that Daesh poses.

Many hon. Members will be concerned about issues of legality, but I believe that is properly addressed by resolution 2249, which calls on states to take “all necessary measures” to prevent terrorist attacks, and to eradicate the safe haven that Daesh has created in Iraq and Syria. After the experience of Iraq, it is hardly surprising that Members across the House are concerned about legality, but I do not believe that that issue arises in the current case. The international community clearly regards Daesh as such a unique threat to the peace of the world, that military action is not only justified, but positively encouraged.

On utility and whether British military action will make a difference, I believe that it will. Britain should not stand by while our strongest ally, the United States, and France, which has recently suffered so grievously, bear the greatest load to rid the world of this pernicious and evil organisation. As the Prime Minister rightly put it, we should not subcontract our security to our international partners. The Royal Air Force boasts some of the finest military pilots in the world. It possesses formidable weaponry, including the Brimstone missile, which is unique to the British armed forces and will make a considerable contribution to degrading the power of Daesh. Our allies are calling for us to join them.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

The right hon. Gentleman says that the Brimstone missile is unique to the Royal Air Force. Is it the case—I asked the Prime Minister this the other day—that the Saudi Arabian air force has been using the Brimstone missile in Syria since February this year?

[Mr Jones]

As far as I know—I stand to be corrected by the hon. Gentleman, although I do not know whether he is right—the Brimstone missile is unique to British military forces, and we have the finest pilots in the world flying those planes.

To those who say that British engagement in Syria will put this country at risk of retribution by terrorists, I say yes, that is probably right. However, that will not change the state of affairs that currently prevails. ISIL/Daesh does not recognise the border between Iraq and Syria, and it regards land on both sides of that border as part of its territory. We are already taking action against Daesh in Iraq, and therefore we are already at risk of retribution. The danger to our citizens is already great, but I do not believe that it will be increased one jot by the action that I hope this House will support. The risk is already there, and we should continue to adopt the vigilance that we are already displaying to keep our citizens safe at home.

I believe that the case for action is strong as is the legal basis for it, and Britain can, and will, make a difference in the struggle against Daesh in Syria. I shall therefore support the motion, and I urge other hon. Members to do likewise. It is entirely honourable for Members to go through either Lobby this evening, but if the outcome of that vote means that we commit ourselves to military action in Syria, every Member of the House should—and I believe will—give all necessary support to our brave armed personnel in Syria.

Syria

David Jones Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he says about the way I am presenting this case. I am not presenting this case as one of perfection. Syria is very far from perfection. Even Iraq, where we have the ground troops of the Iraqi security forces and the peshmerga, is a far from ideal situation. As Opposition Members have said, we need to see more Sunnis engaged in the Iraqi armed forces. Obviously, in Syria we need more ground forces to help us do what we do. I believe, however, that to conclude from that we should do nothing is a counsel of despair. We should be taking this action, building on the resources we have.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The Prime Minister is entirely right that ISIL poses a direct threat to the security of this country and that therefore this country should play its part in helping to defeat it. What assessment has he made of the position of Iran, which is of course itself a fundamentalist state? It is, with Russia, one of the principal sponsors of the Assad regime and has many thousands of troops on the ground in Syria.

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. Iran plays a large role in Syria. We have many differences with Iran’s policies and approach. As the first British Prime Minister to meet an Iranian President for 35 years, I have always been clear about what those differences are. I think across the House we can agree on the importance of Iran taking part in this political process. It is crucial that it is around the table for the Vienna process. We need the regional players to buy into the future of Syria.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The point I would make to the hon. Gentleman is this: if the couple live in a council house, they are actually seeing a cut in their social rent, because of the plans set out in the Budget. If that couple have children, they will have support in terms of childcare. If that couple are working for a small business, they will have the opportunity of the enhanced employment allowance. If that couple are earning just above the minimum wage—if they are earning, for instance, £7 an hour and working a full-time working week—they will see a huge benefit as we increase the income tax allowance to £12,500. They will almost be paying no income tax at all. What we are doing is introducing higher pay and lower taxes, and that is the way to better family finances and a stronger economy.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Q6. Given the increasing violence in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, will my right hon. Friend wish the United Nations Secretary-General well on his visit to Jerusalem today? Does he agree with him when he says that“walls, checkpoints, harsh responses by the security forces and house demolitions”cannot achieve the peace that Israel desires?

[The Prime Minister]

I would agree that of course those things do not lead to peace, and what is required is a peace process to deliver a two-state solution. We will all have seen appalling murders on our television screens—knife stabbings of entirely innocent people in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Israel—and that is completely unacceptable. We need to make sure that this peace process gets going on a genuine basis of a two-state solution.