Oral Answers to Questions
David Nuttall Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)
6. What steps he plans to take to provide relevant skills to offenders to enable them to find work when they leave prison.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
16. What steps he plans to take to provide offenders with relevant skills and training in order to help them find work when they leave prison.
The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes)
On 18 May, to great acclaim, I launched “Making prisons work: skills for rehabilitation”, the report on offender learning that I commissioned last summer. It sets out a substantial programme of reform to increase the positive impact of offender learning on reoffending rates and on former prisoners’ capacity to reintegrate successfully into civil society.
Mr Hayes
Yes, I do recognise that, which was why, in the review that I published, we put the emphasis on employability skills. For someone to leave the life of crime, another life must pay for them, which means getting and keeping a job. I met National Grid this week, actually, to discuss skills issues, and I congratulate it on its work and my hon. Friend on championing the issue.
Mr Nuttall
Does my hon. Friend agree that the longer the period for which an offender is able to benefit from training programmes, the more likely it is that they can acquire the skills necessary to find work when they leave custody?
Mr Hayes
I learned early on never to stray outside my purview or pitch above my pay grade. Suffice it to say that progression is critical, so what people learn in prison must be progressive. They must be able to take up and complete their studies when they leave, so that they can get qualified, get a job and get on.
Regulatory Authorities (Level of Charges) Bill
David Nuttall Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Mr Chope
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. Why should the users of passports be paying for this manifest failure of Siemens Business Services? That really does make the cost a stealth tax. Who knows, when applying for a passport renewal, that a significant part of the cost is actually to pay Siemens Business Services for an inadequate IT system? Having said all that, in 1997 the cost was £17.50, by 2002 it had increased to £33—by then the Siemens issue should probably have been sorted out—and it then increased to £77.50 in 2009, so I am not sure that my hon. Friend has the complete answer. However, what he says is interesting because it shows how these bodies are tempted to pass costs on to the users of their services, no matter how unreasonably those costs may have been incurred.
Another example involves the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency and the Driving Standards Agency. In 2006, the application fee for the UK driving test was £21, but by 2011 it had risen to £31. The fee for a UK driving test practical on a week day increased from £48.50 in 2008 to £62 in 2011. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) has a great interest in this subject, but I wonder whether he knows the answer to the following quiz question: who was the first person to pass his driving test? If he does not know, I can tell him and the House. The first person to do so was Mr J Beene in 1935, and he had to pay 7/6d in old money, which is the equivalent of 37.5p now. These examples just show how these regulatory costs have risen over the years and how they continue to rise.
Other examples include the significant costs imposed for immigration settlement fees. A lot of cross-subsidy takes place within those and so in the current year the cost faced by a parent or grandparent of someone who has already settled in this country is £1,814, which is a significant fee for that application. You may recall, Mr Speaker, that there was a lively exchange of views a couple of years ago when the issue of fishing licences from the Environment Agency came before the House. Those licences produce a yield of £23 million for the Environment Agency, and my hon. Friend the Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin) raised his concern, and that of others, that the EA had arbitrarily increased by 37% the cost of concessionary rod licences for pensioners and disabled anglers. Why was that done? It was done to help the Environment Agency make a larger profit at the expense of the users of those licences. That is another example of a case that would be covered by the Bill, because if the Environment Agency wanted to increase its charges above the rate of inflation, it would have to get specific authority so to do.
At the moment, there is a proposal from the Police Federation that the cost of a shotgun licence should be increased by some 400%. Again, what could be the justification for that? Surely it is an abuse of the system.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that such extortionate increases are in fact likely to lead many people to give up licensing their shotguns altogether, which will mean that the police will have to deal with many people holding unlicensed shotguns?
Mr Chope
I think that that would be a danger were the increase in fees to go ahead. A similar danger arises in the case of 17-year-olds seeking their first provisional driving licence. Is it reasonable that they should have to pay a very large fee for that? That fee might be a deterrent to their getting a licence and they might choose—unlawfully, obviously—to drive without a licence. That was a challenge I faced when I was the Minister for Roads and Traffic because in order to keep down the cost of entry into driving for someone obtaining a provisional licence and in order to make ends meet, it was necessary to introduce a modest charge for people who wanted to renew their licence at the age of 70.
There was a big debate in the Government at the time, egged on by a false leader in The Sunday Telegraph, and the proposal to charge a modest fee for 70-year-olds when they renewed their licences was regarded as a tax on pensioners. Nobody really understood the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) is making, which is that to increase the costs for the person seeking to get his first provisional licence would be a potential deterrent for that person. I have raised a similar issue in the context of the very high rates of insurance costs and the Government’s policy of having increases in insurance premium tax that bear directly and disproportionately on the costs for young drivers who want insurance. My hon. Friend therefore makes some very good points.
A constant problem is: if we have regulators, who will regulate them? That is essentially what the Bill is about. It challenges the Government in a time when money is tight and when we are told that family incomes will fall over the next two or three years. The Government are imposing quite tight targets on many Government Departments, but would it be fair if those Departments responded by increasing the fees and charges they impose on the tax-paying public by more than the rate of inflation? I do not think it would.
Mr Chope
Indeed.
One of the problems we face is moths—I can even see them flying around the Chamber—so I have a very heavy volume by my bedside to deal with them, particularly when I go home after a long sitting in the Chamber. They are eating every woollen thing in my house, so it is a real problem. The way to deal with them is to have a big tome on the bedside table.
Mr Chope
Definitely not.
I could give many examples of charges, but the significance of the Bill is that it imposes no additional charge on the taxpayer. There is no money resolution because there is no need for one. Clause 1(3) states:
“No Minister of the Crown may increase the level of any grant payable to a regulatory authority as a consequence of the provisions in this Act.”
Without that provision, it would be possible to argue that if we did not allow regulatory authorities to increase their charges, the Government, through the taxpayer, would have to give additional grant aid. That is specifically excluded under clause 1.
Subsection (4) gives a definition of “regulatory authority” that is inclusive rather than exclusive. It includes
“any authority or body which regulates the carrying on of any business or activity, or the practice of any profession.”
There is flexibility for the Government, as subsection (5) gives the Secretary of State power to make
“consequential, saving, transitional or transitory provision”
as he or she deems fit. Clause 2 sets out the title and commencement date and states that the Bill applies only to England and Wales.
I hope the Minister will commend the Bill for being short and to the point, and that he will use the opportunity presented by this debate to give some assurances to members of the public that we shall not see increases in the burden of regulatory fees and charges similar to those that took place under the previous Government. Will he assure us that the Government really are committed to ensuring that those stealth taxes are kept under control?
It is in the nature of Ministers not to like the idea that a Bill could not be improved by the Government. There may be problems with my Bill, but even if the Minister cannot accept it in its current form, I hope that the Government will suggest ways it could be improved or modified and that they will not block its Second Reading.
I commend the Bill to the House.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak briefly in support of a most laudable Bill. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) on bringing the measure before the House this morning. The Regulatory Authorities (Level of Charges) Bill might be referred to more colloquially as the control of stealth taxes Bill, and when it reaches the statute book, as I hope it will, perhaps that is what it will be called.
Most people would see the Bill as right for the times in which we live—often described as an age of austerity. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising some of the problems that regulatory authorities cause. Whenever I have conversations with a professional, be it an accountant, a solicitor or an architect, it is not long before we reach the subject of the imposition of fees by regulatory authorities. From my time in practice, I know that a common source of concern was that bodies such as the Law Society or the Solicitors Regulation Authority seemed able to charge what they liked, without any real control over how they arrived at their fees.
For an organisation that is not in the competitive world, it is all too easy to increase the charges they make on those they have under their control, instead of cutting costs. In many cases, people have no choice about where they have to apply for the licence or certificate they need to conduct their business. That is why some measure of control over regulatory bodies is appropriate.
Many people see those bodies as above the law; they seem to operate in a parallel universe, immune from the pressures of the real world where there is a need to control costs and ensure that the prices charged to customers and clients are kept as low as possible. Those pressures do not exist when there is a captive market and people have nowhere else to go.
The problem with regulatory authorities is that in many ways they are a law unto themselves. Their activities rarely attract much attention. People may have to return to professional bodies every year, but in the case of many other bodies it is only every few years. My hon. Friend mentioned passports. Over 10 years, the cost of a passport increased from £17.50 to £77.50, which far exceeded the rate of inflation over that period, but nobody sat down with a calculator to work out whether the fee went up in line with inflation, or massively more than that. Businesses have to cope not only with the regulatory burden imposed by such bodies, but with the financial burden.
I fully accept that the Bill is not the ideal solution. I would prefer the abolition of the regulatory burden in the first place, and although I accept that in many cases regulation is essential, I am pleased that the coalition Government have been making excellent progress in culling the numerous public bodies and quangos. No doubt the Minister will refer to that later. However, despite the Government’s activities in culling quangos, hundreds will still exist, so the Bill is relevant and essential to protect both the public and businesses from excessive fee increases.
We might think that the onset of new technology, and the possibility for individuals and companies to file things online—in some cases, they have no alternative—would have the effect of driving down prices. Of course, we know from the licence fee freeze that has been imposed on the BBC that, when an organisation is told to cut costs rather than increase its licence fee, it can be done. A few years ago, when Companies House was given freedom from the Government, its filing fees actually decreased. I remember how pleased companies were that the filing fee for an annual return, for example, stopped increasing and started decreasing, so it can be done.
Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)
My hon. Friend mentions that Companies House almost went into private mode and was able to drive down its costs. Will he consider the fact that some licence fees have increased because they are no longer heavily subsidised by general taxation and because Governments have tried to ensure that licences should be paid for by the people to whom they are issued? That is why prices have gone up.
Mr Nuttall
My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I agree with the general thrust of his comments: service users should contribute to the cost of the service that they use. It is right that, for example, solicitors and accountants pay for the costs of their regulatory bodies. People have no difficulty with that, but the problem comes when regulatory bodies, which are answerable to no one other than their own membership, feel that they can impose excessive increases way beyond the inflation rate, rather than considering ways to control their costs. That is particularly important when organisations across the public sector are being asked to live within their means, and that is the Bill’s thrust.
I certainly hope that the Bill receives the overwhelming support of the House this morning. I wish it well in its progress through the House and in another place. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments and to seeing the Bill on the statute book in the months to come. I am sure that it will be widely welcomed, not just in the House, but across the country.
St George’s Day and St David’s Day Bill
David Nuttall Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Nadhim Zahawi
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I would just remind him that because of a quirk this year, we have had a number of bank holidays, and the nation found them positive. There were some economic benefits too. It may be preferable to have a bank holiday at a different time of the year, but for me the importance of St George’s day overrides that consideration.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
I entirely agree that we should have a bank holiday on St George’s day. Could not the problem be solved by moving the existing bank holiday on May day to 23 April? If we need to create an extra bank holiday, one could be created on, say, Trafalgar day.
Nadhim Zahawi
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. My Bill calls for an additional bank holiday, not the movement of an existing bank holiday. I hope those on the Treasury Bench are listening and taking note of such suggestions. I am pleased that my Bill is provoking debate and such good ideas.
To many, St George’s day is a celebration of all that is great about our nation. At the last election, every major party vowed to promote national integration and social cohesion. A national day celebrated by all, regardless of their background or heritage, would only help that process. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education has said, we must all encourage our children to learn about our nation’s past, the bad and the good, and we must celebrate our shared history. What better way to do that than a national day, officially recognised by the Government?
There are those who say that St George’s day is a Christian holiday and not representative of our multicultural nation, and those who say it plays to the fringe right of this country. I disagree. St George, after all, is the only Christian saint to appear in the Koran and the only saint to have a mosque bearing his name. Even in the world of faith, he is not uniquely Christian. Yes, the fringe right may well have hijacked our symbol of patriotism, which should sadden all of us in the Chamber, but today in the House we can go a long way towards reclaiming it.
Let us remember what our Prime Minister said on St George’s day last year:
“Today we are celebrating St George’s Day, and we are reclaiming St George’s Day as an important day . . . for good reasons.
And one of the most important reasons is that we should be reclaiming the flag from the BNP and saying the flag belongs to the English people, all of them.”
He went on to say:
“People come to our country and want to feel part of our country.
They want to feel part of something and celebrating St George’s Day will help them feel that sense of belonging.”
As the son of immigrants to this country, a son of parents who fled persecution to find safe haven here, I could not have put it better myself.
It is important to lay another myth to rest—that an extra bank holiday would affect our productivity and be economically damaging. As a businessman and an entrepreneur, I have built up a strong and enduring business and I totally reject the idea that one extra bank holiday would have that effect. The working people of this country will get done the work that they need to get done, regardless of an extra day away from the office. The concept of work has changed. It is no longer about turning up at a particular time and leaving at another time. It is, instead, about outputs and what is done, not how long it is done for.
Mr Hayes
My hon. Friend is certainly right. Although we cost such proposals in a clear and empirical way—and notwithstanding my comments about utility—it is right that we should consider the matter in the round. We should assess the effects, both good and bad, on business, because clearly many businesses will benefit from an additional holiday. The tourist business, many of our resorts and parts of our leisure industry would benefit. However, there would be other costs to business, and it is right to listen to what business organisations say. Indeed, I will describe what they have said as we progress through this short but important debate.
The history of bank holidays will help us to draw some conclusions. Bank holidays are a relatively new phenomenon, of course. Before 1834, the Bank observed about 33 saints’ days and religious festivals as holidays, but in 1834 the number was reduced to just four: 1 May, 1 November or All Saints day, Good Friday and Christmas day. Frankly, in my view, that was rather a meagre ration. In 1871, the first legislation relating to bank holidays was passed when the banker and politician, Sir John Lubbock, introduced the Bank Holidays Act 1871, which specified the days as holidays.
I understand that Sir John Lubbock was an enthusiastic supporter of national and local cricket, and was firmly of the belief that bank employees should have the opportunity to participate in and attend matches when they were scheduled. Dates of bank holidays are therefore dates when cricket games were traditionally played between villages in the area where Sir John was raised. It is that rather partisan approach to bank holidays, built around Sir John’s personal tastes, which forms the basis, or at least the origins, of the matters we are speaking of today. Nevertheless, people were so glad to be given time off, whether it was to watch cricket or not, they called the first bank holidays St Lubbock’s days for a while. That did not perpetuate, but I hope that politicians of note might consider that, at least in popular if not official terms, special days could be named after them; one never knows, but if my hon. Friend’s Bill were to be successful, his name might, at least colloquially, be attached to the day’s holiday that people enjoyed. However, that rather self-interested motive of course has nothing to do with his bringing the Bill to our attention.
As is often the case, Scotland was treated separately because of its separate traditions, and so, for example, new year’s day was a holiday there whereas Boxing day was not. The 1871 Act did not specify Good Friday and Christmas day as bank holidays in England, Wales and Ireland because they were already recognised as common law holidays, and common observance had meant that they had become customary holidays since before records began.
Exactly a century after the 1871 Act, the Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971, which currently regulates bank holidays in the UK, was passed. The majority of the current bank holidays were specified in the 1971 Act, but holidays for new year’s day in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and for May day were introduced later. From 1965, the date of the August bank holiday was changed to the end of the month. Curiously, there were a few years—for example, 1968—when the holiday fell in September, but this no longer occurs, presumably reflecting a change in the way of defining the relevant date. The Whitsun bank holiday, Whit Monday, was replaced by the late spring bank holiday, which was fixed as the last Monday in May in 1971.
Under the 1971 Act, certain holidays are written into legislation. Those which are not are proclaimed each year by the legal device of a royal proclamation. A royal proclamation is also used to move bank holidays that would otherwise fall on a weekend, so adding an additional one-off holiday, as was the case this year. In that way, holidays are not lost in years when they coincide with weekends. These deferred bank holidays are termed bank holidays in lieu of the typical anniversary date and in the legislation are known as “substitute days”. Although we have fewer public or bank holidays than many other European Union member states, they do not always have substitute days and so, in some sense, the comparison is misleading. That point has been made by a variety of speakers today, including the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central.
To give those north of border a chance to have a longer celebration at new year, 2 January was made an additional bank holiday in Scotland by the 1971 Act—the rest of the country was given the chance to celebrate, less enthusiastically perhaps, by having new year’s day off instead. May day is the most recent of the eight bank holidays and is thought by some to be a controversial choice. It was introduced by the then Employment Secretary, Michael Foot, in 1978, just before he went on to lead the Labour party. At the time many opposed the move, saying that the May day holiday was essentially a communist idea because most countries behind the iron curtain enjoyed it, but it is now in the calendar and a fixture in bastions of communism such as the United States. I think we can assume that those charges did not bear as much weight as their advocates suggested.
The first bank holiday Act was a welcome innovation—
Mr Nuttall
On the point of the May day bank holiday. Does the Minister agree that one solution to the problem of finding an extra bank holiday for St George’s day would be simply to move the May day bank holiday to 23 April? That would resolve the problem of a loss to the economy, which has been discussed, and it would create a day around which we could all unite for St George’s day.