Oral Answers to Questions

David Winnick Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

We do want men to take the shared parental leave already available. The signs are that men are beginning to do that, but we need a cultural change to encourage men to take their share of shared parental leave.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

I want to mention just one workplace. While it is perfectly right that someone in his late 70s should be a regular presenter on BBC television—he is younger than I am—can the Minister imagine a female of that age in the same position? Is that not a form of age discrimination by a public body?

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am obviously in favour of older male television presenters, particularly of news programmes, but absolutely we need many more female counterparts.

European Convention on Human Rights: UK Membership

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Post-1945 Europe should be proud to have such a convention, which has existed for so many years. If the argument is that from time to time, the judgments are faulty, what about judgments in this country, such as those in the cases of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Surely, they were hardly an argument for changing our judicial system. The reason the Attorney General is putting this forward, whether or not it represents his own personal and political views, is that there is an extreme element in the Conservative party that deeply resented having the convention in the first place.

[The Attorney General]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that no court system is perfect. All systems are capable of making mistakes, and we should be grateful for the fact that our judicial system permits those mistakes to be corrected, as they were in the cases that he mentioned. I do not think that that is comparable to the exercise that has been conducted by Strasbourg jurisprudence on the European convention on human rights, which has moved that document fundamentally away from its founders’ intentions. That is a different thing. The Labour party is content to allow it to proceed, but we are not content to let it go.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I would like to correct the hon. Gentleman, as I have it here. I said:

“As Deputy Prime Minister, I support the Prime Minister on a full range”.—[Official Report, 6 January 2015; Vol. 590, c. 143.]

That does not mean “complete range”; it does not mean the whole, as the hon. Gentleman suggests. Of course there are disagreements between myself and the Prime Minister, and of course there are disagreements between the coalition parties. I know the hon. Gentleman has not taken to the give and take of coalition government as readily as some Government Members have, but I think history will judge the two coalition parties kindly for having put the national interest first and working together, supporting each other, in order to fix the broken economy inherited from the previous Government. As he talks about support, I am delighted to hear that the Prime Minister and his party now support my party in, for instance, giving tax cuts to millions and millions of people on low and middle incomes—that was always our policy.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Will the Deputy Prime Minister be attending the lectures being given by the Rev. Lord Green, the chap who ran HSBC in such an ethical way? Apparently, he is giving lectures on “ethical banking”. Does the Deputy Prime Minister stand by the comments made by the Business Secretary when the Rev. Lord Green was made a trade Minister? The Business Secretary described Lord Green in terms of

“a powerful philosophy for ethical business.”

Even George Orwell could not have made that one up!

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Again, the hon. Gentleman is a brave man to talk about regulation of the banking system from the Labour Benches, given his party’s total, singular failure to heed the warnings of my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary. I recall him standing there saying to the then Prime Minister, week in, week out, that the Labour party was heading for trouble because it did not regulate the banks properly. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman might want to ask questions of his own colleagues about why HSBC was able to get away with such outrageous business practices back in 2007 and 2008.

Assisted Suicide

David Winnick Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) spoke with great emotion. Like his father, my mother died at the age of 87; it is very difficult for us to speak about these very personal matters. I know that my mother, like many elderly people, wrongly felt that she was a burden. Of course she was never a burden, but I think that many people feel like that; there might be absolutely no pressure on them, but they feel that they would make it easier for everybody if they were to ease their path out of life. We must never allow old people in this country to feel that they are a burden. That is where I come from.

My views have progressed on this matter over the time I have been in Parliament. I freely confess that when I first came here I believed that the state had the right to take life and I voted, like many of my colleagues, in 1983 to restore capital punishment. I now think I was wrong and I have come to the conclusion that the only logical and right course of action is always to proclaim life. As it happens, at the moment I am reading a history of Stalin’s Russia, and one cannot understand the attitude of a society in which life is held so cheaply. I know that we are a million miles from that but in my view the end never justifies the means. That is why I personally voted against all the recent wars—or certainly did not vote for them. I believe that life must come first and that we must proclaim life.

That does not come from my religious views; it is a matter of absolute certainty and belief and is incredibly important for society if we are to create a society of light and hope and not one in which people ultimately feel they are a burden. That is why I have consistently voted, opposed, spoken against and moved amendments on abortion and I would vote against capital punishment. I am totally opposed to euthanasia in any shape or form. Some people will say, “That’s all very well for you. At the moment you are reasonably healthy. What if you are faced with the appalling difficulties and problems that we have been talking about today?”, and my answer is that I do not know. All I know is that we must proclaim this truth, and the House of Commons should proclaim it—that anybody, however young, unborn, crippled, hopeless, diseased or idiotic, has as much right to life as anybody else, and all life is precious because the external human body is simply a mirror of the soul. If we renege on that moral certainty and if we start on a journey, it is a very dangerous journey indeed.

[Mr Winnick]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. Every life is of value and the idea that because someone may be disabled or elderly and so on their life is less valuable than other people’s is totally alien to me, as it is to him. But I gave as an example Dr Anne Turner, who was so terrified of facing a death like her husband’s, where all physical movement would have ended. Does he recognise that she had the right to decide, and she took that right, though she could not do so in Britain?

[Mr Leigh]

I recognise that point of view and that is why, although I have expressed myself so far, some would say, with too much moral certainty, I realise that we are in a moral maze here. It is not for us to lecture people on what they may or may not do at the end. That is why the guidelines are a fair compromise. I do not think anybody wants to prosecute and send to jail somebody who acts out of the depth of love and compassion when they are faced with a close relative who is suffering. Nobody wants such a person to be sent to prison if they assist their loved one out of this life.

We have a compromise, but it is not legalised euthanasia. I tabled an amendment, which was not selected. Why should it have been? I wanted to express the point of view that the House of Commons must firmly and unequivocally state, as it has done up to now, that for the absolute avoidance of doubt, it is opposed to voluntary euthanasia. There is a world of difference between the desperate situation in which a relative helps somebody out of this world, and a situation where a doctor, as part of the legal process, kills somebody. That is what so many of us on this side of the argument believe so passionately. It might be a cliché to talk in terms of slippery slopes, but it is there in Holland and in Oregon—in only about six jurisdictions throughout the world. We do not want this country to embark on this road.

I was with my best friend, a former Member of this House, Piers Merchant, as he lay dying. He was riddled with cancer, in great pain, and I was with him as he was dying. He was filled with morphine. I could see the morphine going through his body all the time. He was no doubt killed by the morphine, not by the cancer, and I respected that judgment. He was in a wonderful, caring hospice. Everybody was looking after him and everybody was loving him. At the end of the day his doctors, I suppose, killed him because the pain would have been unendurable, but that is not legalised euthanasia. That is allowing doctors to take an informed decision on the basis of what they know to be right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

But when I asked one of the right hon. Lady’s hon. Friends—the hon. Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick)—whether he would support the amendment, the answer was not clear.

[Mr Winnick]

I am quite happy to support the amendment, if that would satisfy the hon. Gentleman.

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

It is not a question of whether I am satisfied; the question is: what is the purpose of the amendment? We all heard the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) the first time round, and what she said was engaging, but it was not the reason for amendment (a). If we are not talking about going beyond assisted suicide, what are we talking about?