Draft Single Source Contract (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and James Cartlidge

Wednesday 6th March 2024 General Committees

[James Cartlidge]

That is a fair point, which I will reflect on. I shall ensure that the right hon. Lady and all colleagues on the Committee receive copies of the draft guidance as soon as possible, but to be clear, we think that this approach to statutory guidance is a fair one. On a subject of such complexity, if we did not do this, the legislation itself would have to be far more complicated in terms of definitions to ensure clarity for industry, which after all has to implement these relatively complex contracts.

There were some good questions about the SSRO. I have had lots of engagement with the office, which is a highly competent and focused, very professional, relatively small organisation compared with some of those we have in the MOD. It does excellent work and we are always engaging with it on what more we can do together, because this is such an important area. As the right hon. Lady rightly said, arguably it covers 50% of equipment spend and contracts. There is a good reason for that, given the monetary value of some of the big submarine or ship builds. As for resources, the SSRO has made some efficiency savings and has an efficiency target, which I have discussed with it. Those have enabled the office to absorb some extra pressure, which is the best way to deal with it without having to have recourse to further injections of funding. Obviously, we always keep that under review.

The right hon. Lady asked about value for money. Frankly, we could spend all day talking about that, but as we have the Budget later and that will be the theme today, I will not detain colleagues long. I just make the point that the single source procurement regime exists to protect sovereign capability, but that is not its only role. For example, we may be purchasing something at very short notice and there is only one supplier. If we were to competitively let contracts in very sensitive areas, such as nuclear or some of our key naval contracts, there is of course a risk that they would be won by a company that we did not want to win them, so there is no point starting the process in the first place. I think there is a broad consensus on that point. That is why the regime exists and why it has become much more relevant.

The right hon. Lady made some interesting comments about speed, implying that I am a man in a hurry, but I seem to recall that when responding to my statement on acquisition reform she said that we were not going fast enough. We appear to be seeing one of those Leader of the Opposition-style flip-flopping processes under way, which is rather confusing to behold. She did ask a fair question, though: how does this reform fit in with wider reform of procurement? As I announced the other day, our new integrated procurement model is all about the threat we face as a country. We need to procure more quickly, because our competitors in military terms are moving at a frightening pace on some quite extraordinary capabilities that will pose a threat to the United Kingdom.

The purpose of our reforms is to ensure that we have the most effective procurement model, but this will never be completely straightforward, simple or swift; it is a highly complex area of procurement. Were we to undermine the single source regime and make it unfit for purpose, fewer companies would come forward and we would reduce the potentially available supply even further, not only from the big primes but right through the supply chain.

I engage constantly with industry. I had a small and medium-sized enterprise forum in Rosyth last week with Scottish SMEs. The week before I had one of our first engagements with industry at “Secret” in MOD Main Building. For me, that is a critical example of the new system. What it means is that industry is in the room, hearing military secrets of the most sensitive kind—obviously subject to the usual security, which we follow as closely as possible on this side of Europe—ensuring that firms understand what is coming down the track, what our plans are and what the likely security requirements are. That is moving much more quickly than before.

We talk about a three-week implementation time. At the moment, we have got companies in Ukraine that are spiralling capability within days. In that sort of context and with the need for speed because of the military scenario, we should not be afraid of acting swiftly. It is in the national interest.

I take on board the points that the right hon. Lady made. We want to make the regulations effective because they cover arguably the most critical procurements this country makes, in relation particularly to the deterrent, so I am grateful for her support.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

This is not an area that I am that familiar with, but I would like to understand how equivalent this approach is to that of our allies in Europe and the US.

[James Cartlidge]

That is an excellent question, and it is something I have looked into in considerable detail. We want to be confident that our regime is comparable or stands up to scrutiny at least, compared to peers. We are talking about the awarding of enormous amounts of public money without competition, so it is important to get it right. I would say it is arguably more common in Europe than in the UK to have the dominance of one or two nationalised or semi-nationalised defence companies in each country. The area of comparison I looked at was the profit rates. What we would not want is a sense that the profit rate we allowed on a contract was significantly higher. It is very difficult to compare, and the initial information I have seen is difficult to track. As the Committee can imagine, getting data on this sort of sensitive information is difficult, but we are looking at it. It shows, I think, that we are in the same ballpark, broadly, as our European peers.

We are talking about value for money and speed, and those important issues come together. Single source procurement can be an important instrument that is available at the moment in other contexts, and will become increasingly necessary, for example, for very fast procurement into Ukraine or situations in which we feel a supply chain needs to become more resilient because the military threat has heightened. From the MOD’s point of view, this is a really important tool to have available. It covers an enormous amount of very sensitive procurement. I am confident that the regulations will improve the system, but we will constantly engage with industry and colleagues. I will ensure that the right hon. Member for Garston and Halewood receives a copy of the draft statutory guidance and that we issue the full biftas as soon as possible. I am grateful for colleagues’ support.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Single Source Contract (Amendment) Regulations 2024.

Judicial Review and Courts Bill

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and James Cartlidge

Report stage
Tuesday 25th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Will the Minister comment on the assessment that the judicial review on the shortages of personal protective equipment for health workers would not have taken place had this legislation been in place?

[James Cartlidge]

The point is that these matters are entirely for our independent judiciary. The judiciary will make the judgment on whether the powers in the Bill should be used. I would not want to speculate on whether they would have been used in individual cases; that is not my role as a Minister. We have to have faith in how the judiciary will deploy what are, after all, new flexibilities—as we say, new tools in the judicial toolbox.

Let me move on to the new clauses tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes). New clause 8 seeks to re-establish the ouster clause, in response to a 2019 Supreme Court judgment that asserted that certain decisions of the investigatory powers tribunal would not be subject to judicial review by the High Court. My right hon. Friend knows that we are sympathetic to and see merit in what he says, but we think this is not the right Bill or time, given the complexity involved. We want to look into the matter further, though. I was pleased to discuss it with my right hon. Friend in Committee and would be pleased to meet him further.

Universal Credit Project Assessment Reviews

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and James Cartlidge

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Again, we need to know the extent of the issues. I am sure the information system is one of those concerns. The Information Commissioner described the PARs as giving

“a much greater insight than any information already available about the Universal Credit Programme.”

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am going to finish this point. The ICO describes the programme as having

“been subject to a number of high-profile failings”.

In its judgment, the ICO weighed the public interest carefully and determined that the balance supports disclosure of these five reports, not least because UC could affect up to 11 million people, by the estimation of the ICO, with nearly 7 million relying on the programme once it is fully rolled out. The commissioner noted that the Department for Work and Pensions had not complied with the law in its handling of the original request for information and gave it 35 days to release this information into the public domain, with a failure to comply resulting in a written certification to the High Court. So we cannot underestimate the importance of this ruling.

[Debbie Abrahams]

But we do not know, do we? I recognise the hon. Lady’s commitment and drive—

[James Cartlidge]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Debbie Abrahams]

May I just finish responding to the intervention?

We need to understand what is in the reports. I absolutely understand the commitment of the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Heidi Allen) on this issue, but we do not know until we have seen them.

[James Cartlidge]

This is all fine, but the key stats are in the public domain. The purpose of universal credit is to help people into work. We have record employment and record low unemployment. Those are the stats that matter. Does the hon. Lady celebrate them?

[Debbie Abrahams]

Well, where to start with that? First, unless the hon. Gentleman has a crystal ball and has been able to read the reports, I do not think he is in a position to say that they will reveal nothing else. Secondly, on the stats he mentioned, I think there is enough on the record to refute those points.

Tax Avoidance and Evasion

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and James Cartlidge

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

We have a record low in the number of workless households. Worklessness is the single biggest cause of poverty. The Government have a very strong record on dealing with poverty, and I will come on to that.

[Debbie Abrahams]

It is generous of the hon. Gentleman to give way, but I have to challenge him on his last point. There are more people in work who are in poverty than ever before.

[James Cartlidge]

I simply do not agree with that. I want to start by focusing on the action that has been taken, because I do not think that the anger out there is caused by a lack of action.