Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

The Serious Fraud Office certainly works very closely with the National Crime Agency on its case load, but it is also important that we recognise what has happened within the CPS with the creation of a specialist fraud directorate, which tries to bring together some of the prosecutors, not least those from other Departments, such as the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Department for Work and Pensions, to ensure that we have the necessary expertise to pursue fraud wherever it is found. We will continue to do that, because it is important that we recover these assets and that we prosecute those responsible for fraud, which in many cases is effectively fraud on the taxpayer.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

I wish the Attorney-General the best of luck in his new role, particularly in explaining to this legal illiterate Government their obligations under international and national law to uphold the rule of law. I also wish him the best of luck with Home Office empire building, and that is the purpose of this question. Will he confirm reports in The Times and the Financial Times that Ministers are discussing the abolition of the Serious Fraud Office and will he give this House a clear assurance that he will fight such attempts to dismember the SFO so that we continue to have an independent combined investigator and prosecutor of serious economic fraud?

[The Attorney-General]

I am grateful—I think—for the hon. Lady’s welcome. May I reassure her that this Government fully understand their legal obligations, both national and international, and that they will continue to do so for as long as I am Attorney-General? As for the Serious Fraud Office, let me repeat what I said to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier). It is crucial that we maintain, as she says, the unique model of combining investigators, lawyers and other experts in specific teams to address very complex and difficult cases. That is a model well worth defending. It would be foolish for any Minister within any Government to set their face entirely against any change that might produce a better outcome and, conceivably, a better deal for the taxpayer, but I think it is important to defend that model and she has my absolute assurance that I will continue to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 8th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor-General]

As my right hon. Friend will know, the Home Secretary announced yesterday an inquiry that will look into the way in which paedophilia and institutions have operated. A separate inquiry, which he knows about, is looking into the documents and dossiers, including those of my former hon. Friend Geoffrey Dickens. A lot of work is being done to discover the history. As far as the present situation is concerned, the Government are for maximum security and care in looking after documents and want to see transparency in everything they do.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

May I press the Solicitor-General on that answer? He is aware that there is acute public concern at the suggestion that Government Departments, particularly the Home Office but also the Director of Public Prosecutions, failed to act on a series of child abuse allegations brought to their attention by the late Geoffrey Dickens MP. It has been reported that although documents outlined in those allegations were presented to the DPP in 1983, the CPS can no longer locate them. The Home Secretary has instigated an inquiry, but perhaps the Solicitor-General can clarify a couple of matters now.

What is CPS policy on document retention from the DPP’s office in the early 1980s, and does the apparent disappearance of the documents suggest that an exception was made to that policy, or was it breached? What explanation has the Solicitor-General received about the absence of the files? What steps has the CPS taken to try to recover the documents, and can he say what action, if any, was taken regarding the allegations by the DPP or the CPS in 1983 or at any time thereafter?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Lady does always have the alternative recourse of an application for an Adjournment debate.

[Emily Thornberry]

Or an urgent question.

[Mr Speaker]

Indeed, but this can be dealt with now. What I was gently, diplomatically, politely suggesting to the hon. Lady was that one question ordinarily suffices, and it is not necessary to have five in one go.

European Council

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We need to make sure that all of Europe’s leaders address what has gone wrong in the European Union and the view people take of it, because it is not healthy for extremist parties to be given a sort of recruiting sergeant, as it were, by failures in the organisation.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

I am sure that the readers of The Daily Telegraph are reassured by the Prime Minister deciding that he can now work with Mr Juncker. The real question, however, is whether Mr Juncker can work with him, particularly after the insults, including those to the so-called “cowards” by those who are supposed to be the Prime Minister’s supporters. The reform agenda is really important, but has he not proved himself a lame duck when it comes to promoting it?

[The Prime Minister]

I have sat with Jean-Claude Juncker around the European Council table for the past four years. I spoke to him last night and, as he put in his manifesto, he wants to address the concerns that Britain has about the European Union. My job as Prime Minister is to hold him to that and make sure that we reform the organisation.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

The case did not involve the Serious Fraud Office, but the Financial Conduct Authority. In the circumstances, that case is not a matter that I have had to discuss with the director of the Serious Fraud Office.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Yes, but the Attorney-General will agree that the rule of law means that no one is above the law. It is, of course, very important that those who commit complex fraud should be prosecuted as the common criminals they are. Will he not therefore take this opportunity to express his dismay at the fact that meticulous cases taken to court by the prosecuting authorities may be stopped because such people cannot be tried, because in turn they cannot be represented, because in turn there is insufficient legal aid? If the Attorney-General wished to have my support in his meeting with the Lord Chancellor to explain the rule of law, I would be very happy to help him.

[The Attorney-General]

As the specific case to which the hon. Lady refers is before the Court of Appeal and, therefore, sub judice, I will not comment on it. On the general point that she makes, I certainly agree that it is clearly in the public interest that alleged serious crime should be prosecuted. We will have to await the outcome of the case to see whether the resources that are made available in this instance are satisfactory.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor-General]

No, the shortfall does not have anything to do with that figure. It is worth bearing in mind the fact that money is recovered in different ways. More than £76 million has been returned to victims as a result of Serious Fraud Office activity since 2009, so it is wrong to ignore compensation and other moneys paid to victims when looking at the overall picture.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

The Solicitor-General refers to the National Audit Office report—it was shocking, was it not?—which talks about how the confiscation of criminal assets is just not working at the moment. There are 27% fewer asset restraining orders than there were in 2010; £450 million remains unpaid, even after defendants have served extra time; and £285 million in foreign banks cannot be touched—I could go on, but I am sure that Mr Speaker would not wish me to do so. What plans do the Solicitor-General and Attorney-General have to strengthen enforcement of confiscation orders? Will the Solicitor-General improve our co-operation with overseas jurisdictions? How can we make sure that our justice system gets its hands on these ill-gotten gains?

[The Solicitor-General]

The hon. Lady is covering a much broader area than that raised in the question. As I think she would agree, the Serious Fraud Office has a superb unit that is actively after the money that it leads on—£100 million—and it is believed to be extremely competent. [Interruption.] The extra money is nothing to do with this particular aspect. Overall, we do need a proper strategy to improve confiscation and asset recovery, and that is under way. Ministers are meeting on the matter, and a new strategy from the Crown Prosecution Service was explained in more detail when evidence was given to the Justice Committee. I think the hon. Lady is being over-critical, as it is not always easy to extract money that is overseas in complex trust arrangements and hard to recover.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor-General]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question, because this is a very important issue. Ministers met non-governmental organisations last week to discuss how to make progress. A number of things are happening. He will know that the Crown Prosecution Service is currently reviewing 10 cases, and it is very much hoped that it will be possible to ground a prosecution. However, the key thing is that one does need evidence, so it is very important that the information gathering for the sort of evidence that is needed for a successful prosecution is found and pursued. Every effort is being made, and I have recently visited all the units concerned.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Child abuse and rape prosecutions are falling because the agencies are not working together. I have uncovered the fact that local authorities are not disclosing information to police and prosecutors and the fact that the police are referring fewer and fewer cases to prosecutors. We now need to know what the Solicitor-General and his brother and sister Ministers are going to do to show some leadership on this issue. Are the Government doing nothing about it because violence against women and girls is not a priority for them, or because the 27% cuts to the CPS and the loss of a quarter of its lawyers mean that the Solicitor-General is resigned to the idea that more and more cases are going to be dropped?

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. This does need to be a whole Government effort, because what I do not want to see is dredging work being held up by arguments in other Departments. We have to crack this problem. I join him in praising all of those—the emergency services, the Environment Agency, local flood wardens—who have done such valuable work, including in the Somerset Levels, but we now need to move more rapidly to issues such as dredging, which I think will help to make a long-term difference.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Q10. Mount Pleasant in my constituency is a massive development site that used to belong to Royal Mail, and therefore to all of us. It was sold for an absolute song. Is it not morally right for at least half the site to be used for local people? Independent valuers have said that the developers could build 50% genuinely affordable housing and still make a huge profit. In those circumstances and given the level of local opposition to the current plan to develop the site, would it not be outrageous for the Mayor of London to approve it? How can 12% affordable housing help with the cost of living crisis for Londoners?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to look at the site that the hon. Lady mentioned, but it is important that we allow the Mayor of London to carry out his planning responsibilities. What is important is that, when there are redevelopment opportunities, they are not endlessly blocked, because we need the development, the growth and the housing.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor-General]

The way in which the police investigate cases is independent. The hon. Gentleman could raise it with the Home Secretary, but it is not dealt with by the Crown Prosecution Service. The new CPS guidelines constitute a major step forward, as do the new national network of rape and child sex abuse prosecutors, which provides a source of expertise on such offences in each area. That will lead to more effective prosecutions.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

One of the reasons for the decline in the number of prosecutions for child abuse is that the police are not referring as many cases to the Crown Prosecution Service despite the fact that the numbers remain constant, but the other major factor is that local authorities are not co-operating with the Crown Prosecution Service. Was the Minister as shocked as I was to discover that in the past three years two thirds of councils have refused to disclose information to the police and to the CPS in child abuse cases? Does he think in future he should monitor this, rather than leave it to me, through the Freedom of Information Act, to discover that information, and will he consider making disclosure compulsory in future if this situation does not improve?

[The Solicitor-General]

In fact, the Attorney-General and I have been concerned about this issue and as a result Her Majesty’s inspectorate of the CPS has undertaken a report on disclosure, which was published recently. It is a matter that needs to be addressed. Having said that, the new protocol and the way in which the various authorities are coming together on this is encouraging. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady says something from a sedentary position which I cannot hear, but I assure her that all efforts are being made—

[Emily Thornberry]

I said they are not coming together.

[The Solicitor-General]

I do not want to get into pantomime mode and say, “Oh yes they are,” but the fact of the matter is that considerable progress is being made.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

Yes, I have raised the matter on a number of occasions with both the previous and the present DPP. It would be best for me to write to my hon. Friend in respect of any statistics; they are not very easy to come by, unfortunately. One issue I often raise when I see some of Her Majesty’s judges on my visits to courts is a request for them to feed in to me any such examples rather than just to rely on anecdote. Nobody pretends that the CPS is a 100% efficient organisation, but I would like to take this opportunity to say that the last director left it in a much better condition than the one he inherited, and made substantial progress.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Does the Attorney-General recall that over a year ago, in relation to Hillsborough, I advised him to consider

“discussing with the DPP the value of instructing, at the outset, a senior and independent-minded Queen’s counsel to lead the review of evidence and the decision-making process on any possible prosecutions”?—[Official Report, 16 October 2012; Vol. 551, c. 157.]

He now finds himself unable to discuss Hillsborough with the current DPP, as she previously advised no further action be taken on it. Indeed, the official she nominated is also compromised. With hindsight, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman now regret not taking my advice?

[The Attorney-General]

In circumstances in which a potential conflict of interests might arise, there are perfectly available mechanisms for my liaison with the Crown Prosecution Service to continue. I have every confidence that this matter is being dealt with appropriately. I am also satisfied that, if there is a need for liaison between my office and the CPS, it can be readily secured with the Crown prosecutor who is dealing with the case.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emily Thornberry Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to his constituent for how he has turned his life around and is contributing to our economy. We see 400,000 more businesses up and running in our country—[Interruption.] Of course Labour Members do not want to hear about success stories. They do not care about enterprise; they do not care about small businesses. It is this enterprise and this small business that are turning our country around.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

Q8. A new flat has just been launched in my constituency, which has been built partly as a result of public money under the Government’s affordable housing scheme, known as Share to Buy. It is a two-bedroom flat in Pear Tree court and it costs £720,000. Does the Prime Minister believe that to be affordable and, if so, to whom?

[The Prime Minister]

We need to build more houses in our country and that is why we are reforming the planning system, which Labour opposed, why we have introduced Help to Buy, which Labour opposed, and why we have put extra money into affordable housing, which Labour opposed. Labour is now the “build absolutely nothing anywhere” party and as a result housing will become less affordable.