United Kingdom Internal Market Bill
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
Thank you, Mr Evans. Of course I will focus the majority of my remarks on amendment 22, but I hope you will permit me a little latitude to work around our amendment. [Interruption.] Well, I hope Mr Evans will; I do not really care about the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) as he is not in the Chair, so I will listen to you, Mr Evans. I say that with all affection and kind regards for the hon. Gentleman.
Gavin Robinson
It is, no doubt about it.
I have been here for the guts of four hours during this debate, which has been going for four hours and 45 minutes, and at times I felt I had entered a parallel universe. For Government Members, this Bill is an important and necessary step: it is a safety net; it respects the internal market of the UK; and it is something prudent and expedient to do in the circumstances in which we find ourselves in the current negotiations. From Opposition Members I hear that it is the most egregious and outrageous power grab, driving a coach and horses through everywhere—England, Scotland and Wales. This coach and horses is very tired. Yet I find it difficult to get Members on both sides to focus on some of the fundamentals that affect us in Northern Ireland.
I have heard Members from across the Chamber say in all sincerity that they believe there are elements in this Bill that protect the single market of the United Kingdom, that talk about the customs union of the UK. Let us be under no illusion: the single market of the UK, as we know it, was gifted away at the time this House passed the withdrawal agreement and the associated Northern Ireland protocol. Let us reflect on the financial assistance provisions in this Bill and clause 46 in particular. When I raise this with the Government, they say clearly that this is a power that extends right throughout the UK. That in itself is true, but there is no recognition in this debate, save in the contribution from my right hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), that that unrestricted power to offer financial assistance is hugely curtailed. It is curtailed by article 10 of the Northern Ireland protocol associated with the withdrawal agreement.
Article 10 says that we in Northern Ireland remain under the single market regime of the EU; that the state aid rules, no matter what this financial assistance provision says, will apply to Northern Ireland; and that any decision on financial assistance from this Government to businesses in Northern Ireland that fall within the EU state aid rules will not only be subject to challenge by EU member states, but will bring with it the full jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. I struggle when I hear Members in this House say that this Bill protects the integrity of the UK single market—it does not. That is why I ask that people sincerely look at amendment 22, because it would allow the people of Northern Ireland to benefit and would mean that the provisions on direct and indirect discrimination actually mean something to businesses in Northern Ireland. We will spend a lot of time on Monday considering the things we can do that will appropriately protect businesses in Northern Ireland to trade with their biggest market in Great Britain, but we also need Members of this House to consider the implications of the regime passed at the start of this year, the restrictions that there will be on trade from GB to NI, and the costs associated with the regimes in place through GB and NI. I know that those negotiations have not concluded and that we do not have a full picture of how that will be, but here we are, three and a half months from the end of the transition period, and yet businesses in Northern Ireland have no clarity as to how they are going to trade with their main market.
I struggle fundamentally with the arguments advanced by some Members about the Good Friday agreement. I listened very carefully to the contributions of the hon. Members for Foyle (Colum Eastwood) and for Belfast South (Claire Hanna), neither of whom are here now, and I make no criticism of that at this stage. Throughout the course of Brexit, there have been claims ad nauseam—in this Chamber, within the Northern Ireland political context, in the United States of America, which has been referred to today, and elsewhere—that taking sovereign decisions within a political entity is in some way injurious to peace in Northern Ireland. That is wrong.
Stuart Anderson
The hon. Gentleman speaks very wisely. I have listened to the debates this week. I served for 18 months in Northern Ireland during the troubles. My regiment, the Royal Green Jackets, probably lost more than any other regiment throughout the whole process. To use this as a political football is an offence to me and every veteran around the country. It is a tagline that has been thrown away and I think will land very badly.
Gavin Robinson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I have great regard for him. We served on the Defence Committee together. I commend him for his service to this country and to our Province of Northern Ireland.
The arguments advanced are fundamentally wrong. They never point to who is going to engage in violence. They never condemn the threat of violence that would frustrate a legitimate political decision being made—they never reach that far. They never point to which part of the Belfast agreement they take issue with. They say, “This drives a coach and horses through the Belfast agreement”—you will hear it and read it in Hansard day in, day out. I say, show me the clause—show me the provision that it breaches. When we ask that question, then we get to the next stage—“Ah, but it is the spirit of the Belfast agreement that you are interfering with.”
I caution Members, particularly those who are not from Northern Ireland and who want to be saying and doing the right thing, and advocating the right position, but perhaps do not have the full picture: when you hear that argument related to European Union matters and to Brexit issues in this Bill, you are hearing it through a one-dimensional prism. I am not saying that nationalists are not entitled to their nationalism just as I am entitled to my Unionism—we are all entitled to our perspectives—but they present this injury to the Belfast agreement in a way that suggests it is a one-dimensional document. They suggest that the only concern within the fragility of peace in Northern Ireland is the satisfaction of those who look to Dublin—those who have an aspiration of unity in the island of Ireland—without reflecting on the fact that the document itself is a balance that brings communities together and allows them to co-operate with one another. And that has to include Unionism too. It has to include Unionists in Northern Ireland who look to London and believe that the Union is best for us all. For as long as we hear and listen to those arguments, never proven, and for as long as we say, “I’m sorry, we can’t make a legitimate political decision because of the fear—the fantasy—of something that may go wrong in future”, we see this only through the prism of one perspective, and we will end up making the wrong choice.
I say that not to attack Members, who are entitled to their own views, but to say careful and look a bit beyond some of the arguments. This Bill does not protect the internal market of the United Kingdom. It is a very good move for those who are concerned about ECJ application and state aid rules affecting businesses in GB. That is the intended purpose of clause 46 and some of the other clauses around state aid. There is nothing in clause 46 or clause 47 without our amendment, or indeed anything, that turns back the clock on the agreements around state aid rules of the European Union applying to Northern Ireland, and nor will there be. That is not an aspiration of the Government. The Government’s perspective is that those issues have been resolved.
In speaking to amendment 22, which I do not believe will be pushed to a vote, I hope that Members who are present this evening and respectfully listening to what I have to say will be here on Monday, when we consider and thoughtfully focus on the Northern Ireland aspects of trade from GB to NI and NI to GB. Those are two different propositions because of the protocol. They are fundamentally different. When we talk about access to the UK’s single market, we are only talking about selling to GB, not buying from it.
I ask that, over the next number of days, Members reflect on some of those issues and that when we meet on Monday to consider the Northern Ireland implications of the Bill and the wider underpinning agreements that already exist and are not intended to change, they reflect on the amendments that we put forward and proceed on that basis.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
I rise to support the amendments standing in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), who I must say made an impressive opening speech on Monday. Those of us elected in 2015 are old enough to remember when we were told we would get chaos if he was elected Prime Minister. As I look at the current Government, the word “chaos” feels like an understatement.
The seat I represent is in west London, but I know that many of my constituents care deeply about the Union of the four nations of the UK, the UK’s reputation and the credibility of the UK and the rule of law. The debate is not about whether people support or oppose Brexit. Saying that, I voted against triggering article 50 back in 2017, because I knew that it would take time to sort out the nuts and bolts of Brexit and that we had a long way to go, but we now have only three months until we leave the EU single market. As we can see from the mess in this Bill, there is still an awful long way to go. That hits business, it hits people and it hits our nations.
The debate is, however, about how our Government approach devolution and our future relations with the devolved nations, as well as our current and future trade partners. That approach is, in my view, deeply flawed. The Bill is an act of self-destruction in the middle of a destructive pandemic. In the clauses we are discussing today, we see powers and money pulled away from the devolved nations while we are all caught up in a race to the bottom on standards.
The Government’s White Paper claims that they will legislate in a way that “respects the devolution settlement”. However, as many have already said in the debate, the Bill does the exact opposite. With due respect to the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), I am sorry—I disagree. The Bill leads to a significant recentralisation of power away from the devolved Administrations and back to Whitehall, undermining so many of the very many benefits and the core principles of devolution.
Oral Answers to Questions
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I thank my right hon. Friend, and I can absolutely give her that guarantee. In the current circumstances, now is the time to double down on levelling up and that is what we are going to do. That is why we are rolling out a colossal programme of investment in infrastructure, massive investments in our public services and fantastic new technology, because that is the way to give every part of our country the opportunity to realise its potential.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I well remember Bethany and her question, and I know how difficult this problem is for many people. I can certainly commit to him to look at it in detail and see what we can do, and I will write back to him.
Parliamentary Constituencies Bill
Gavin Robinson ExcerptsTuesday 14th July 2020
(5 years, 10 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Parliamentary Constituencies Act 2020 View all Parliamentary Constituencies Act 2020 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Consideration of Bill Amendments as at 14 July 2020 - (14 Jul 2020)
Virginia Crosbie
Either works. I am delighted that my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (James Grundy) is present to see his journey continue. I am proud to be the MP for Ynys Môn, and I am equally proud and delighted to see the island recognised with protected status in the Bill.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie). I congratulate her on her success; I hope it is the first of many. I shall not repeat her constituency name too frequently in case I injure its pronunciation. It is a great tribute to her that she has got that success so soon in this Parliament.
As we know, every day is a school day. It has been interesting to hear people on the Government Benches talk with a straight face about the equalisation of seats, having operated and implemented the English votes for English laws process in this Parliament. If Members want an English Parliament, they should create it, and I will support it, but it is no substitute for our national Parliament, which is this Chamber. It is hard to listen to equalisation arguments, having been unnecessarily excluded from so many votes in this place since the creation of that policy.
As I say, every day is a school day, and it is interesting to learn that not only is there a song called “Sussex by the Sea”, but it is an anthem with a national day on which to be sung. The hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) is looking at me because he understands all the nuances in our wonderful British Isles. It would have been no surprise to him, but it was to me.
Having heard the comments from the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden), who is not in the Chamber, about how much he enjoyed the Bill Committee, I suppose I should probably not admit that I gave evidence to the Committee and probably added to the pain and suffering that he and other Committee members endured. I was pleased to give evidence as our party’s director of elections.
Some important contributions have resurfaced today, not only from the Bill Committee but on the amendment paper, and should be considered. I can see no argument against parliamentary sovereignty or parliamentary scrutiny of boundary commission proposals. I added my name to amendment 1 for that precise purpose. The hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) made the argument earlier about setting the task and then agreeing with the conclusion, and that is our role.
I do not agree with the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) when she suggests that there is a commensurate removal of Executive power. When I gave evidence to the Bill Committee, I think I was fair when I reflected that there is no equivalence or equalisation between parliamentary sovereignty and approval and a technical amendment mechanism that is not used by Ministers and has not been used by Ministers. I have yet to hear Ministers put forward a comprehensive or compelling example of when that ministerial power was used and how it is of equal comparison to the removal of parliamentary approval for boundary commission proposals in respect of the restructure in the Bill. I do not think there is such an example and I have yet to hear one, but I am happy to give way should somebody wish to correct me.
I support new clause 1, but it is fair to say that it contains many arguments in which I have no part to play. I will not put forward arguments about the retention of seats in Wales—that is for others—or about the retention of seats in Scotland, either. In 2018, the Government published the Parliamentary Constituencies (Amendment) Bill, which secured 18 seats for Northern Ireland. It was published but never progressed, but that legislative commitment was given by Government, and it was important for the constitutional and balanced position that we have in Northern Ireland. It was a commitment that was given and has not been repeated in this Bill, which is hugely regrettable, so I will support new clause 2 if it is brought to a vote.
On new clause 1, there are fair arguments about 5% and how much better the constituencies will be with the increase of every percentage point thereafter. This has not been raised in the Chamber thus far, but Members will know that, under the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986, Northern Ireland has a special provision in rule 7 whereby, if the Boundary Commission is unable to construe boundaries with geographical significance or there is no further inaccuracy, we are allowed to have a tolerance of 10%. That rule is retained in this Bill, and we think it is an important rule. The Minister will know from the comments I made in evidence to the Bill Committee that, following a judicial review last year and the Court of Appeal judgment issued only two months ago, Boundary Commission proposals from Northern Ireland were struck down in the operation of rule 7, and we are concerned that there may be a chilling effect on the application of rule 7 in future Boundary Commission proposals.
We will support the increased tolerance from 5% to 7.5% because we think that it would give the greater flexibility required to ensure that Boundary Commission proposals in Northern Ireland are fair, balanced and not infected by other historical arguments that could be brought into the process. However, I am keen to hear from the Minister how lessons can be learned from the application of rule 7 and that the 10% tolerance—or 20%, since it is plus or minus 10%—is important for Northern Ireland, and future boundary commissioners should not be precluded from using it, because it plays an important part in the Boundary Commission process in Northern Ireland, and ultimately it needs to be retained.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Things have perked up enormously on the time front. However, from now on, if Members could stick to five minutes, everyone will be able to speak. I call Shaun Bailey.
Madam Deputy Speaker
Oh, my goodness. I have no Member for North East Fife and although the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is in his place, he has indicated that he might not wish to speak—this is historic. Would the Minister like to wind up?
Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Approach
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Michael Gove
The whole point of the protocol is that it is part of the withdrawal agreement. We cannot have a no-deal scenario because the withdrawal agreement is a deal. However, in a spirit of generosity, I know what the hon. Member means: if we have an Australian-style trading relationship rather than a Canadian-style one, will the protocol apply? The protocol exists for just such an eventuality. As for bins, there will be no need for forms, because it will all be done electronically.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP) [V]
I welcome the insertion of “substantial” to the test of whether goods are at risk of further transit into the European Union. Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster indicate how realistic he thinks it is that the Commission will agree to that insertion, and will he give us a progress report on the pragmatic development of what is considered to be a good at risk of further transit?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman knows that the majority of Northern Ireland’s trade is with the UK, a smaller proportion is with the Republic of Ireland and the amount of produce that goes from GB, through NI and into Ireland is very, very small, so we are taking a risk-based approach. We are saying to the European Commission, “We know that you want to safeguard the gains that Northern Ireland has made in the last 22 years, and one of the best ways to do that is to recognise that, in the same way as Chairman Mao said that the kingdom of heaven was upheld by both men and women, so the Belfast agreement depends on the support of both nationalists and Unionists.”
European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill
Gavin Robinson ExcerptsFriday 20th December 2019
(6 years, 4 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I understand where the hon. Lady is coming from but, like the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry), she is wrong on this point. We remain absolutely committed to ensuring that this country will continue to receive unaccompanied children. We have led Europe and received thousands already—this country has a proud record—and we will continue to do so.
I thought that the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) was going to say that this House would be unable to legislate or regulate on the environment in a way that is superior to the European Union, but that is what we will now be able to do. I reject the idea that our proceedings must somehow be overseen and invigilated by the EU and measured against its benchmarks. The very essence of the opportunity of Brexit is that we will no longer outsource these decisions; with renewed national self-confidence, we will take them ourselves and answer to those who sent us here. It was this Parliament, and this country, that led the whole of Europe and the world in passing the Factory Acts and the clean air Acts of the 19th century, which improved industrial working conditions by law.
This House should never doubt its ability to pioneer standards for the fourth industrial revolution, just as we did for the first.
That epoch-making transformation, as with all the pivotal achievements of British history, reflected the combined national genius of every corner of this United Kingdom. In this new era, our success will once again be achieved as one nation. This new deal in the Bill ensures that the United Kingdom will leave the EU whole and entire, with an unwavering dedication to Northern Ireland’s place in our Union.
The Prime Minister
On that point, I will happily give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Gavin Robinson
I am grateful to the Prime Minister for taking my intervention—I almost thought we had fallen out. He knows that he now has the strength from the election to deliver Brexit. He also knows that we want to deliver Brexit, but we want to do so as one nation, so I am glad that that phraseology is being re-injected into the debate. However, he needs to understand the concerns about the customs arrangements for Northern Ireland, the tariff differentials and the potential for checks, and he needs to understand the concerns we share because we want to ensure that we leave as one nation. We are not going to resolve those issues today, but will he commit to proper, thorough and detailed reconsideration, using the strength that he has to deliver for the entirety of this country?
The Prime Minister
Of course, I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman raises, but let me remind him that the deal commits to unfettered access, but in all parts of the UK. It respects the territorial integrity of the UK, and it ensures that Northern Ireland is part of the UK customs territory and would therefore benefit immediately from any of our new free trade deals as soon as they are in force.
Let me remind the House that the special provisions applying to Northern Ireland, which ensure a very important thing—that there is no hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland—are subject to the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly. Unless the Assembly specifically withholds its consent, and unless it insists on continuing with this approach, then those arrangements would automatically lapse into full alignment with the rest of the UK. I believe that these arrangements serve the interests of Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole. It is a great deal for our whole country.
Oral Answers to Questions
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(6 years, 6 months ago)
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Julian Smith
My hon. Friend will be aware that there is a consultation going on, as he has referred to. The Northern Ireland Office is looking at the Northern Ireland challenges on legacy. These are very sensitive issues—the system is not working, and we will be reporting back to this House over the coming weeks.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
May I, on behalf of my party, extend our best wishes to the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) and the Minister of State, to the right hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), who has been incredibly helpful to me on a particular issue and, indeed, to the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), who has been a recurring strong voice for Northern Ireland?
The Secretary of State said three weeks ago that no party in Northern Ireland would have a veto, yet Sinn Féin used its veto on the extension of the armed forces covenant in Northern Ireland; it does not apply in whole or in part, because of Sinn Féin’s sectarian intransigence. Will the Secretary of State keenly pursue the full implementation of the covenant in Northern Ireland?
Julian Smith
The Government are committed to the armed forces covenant. As I said, we are engaging with the consultation that has occurred. We are clear on our responsibilities; the covenant is working across Northern Ireland, but we obviously need to ensure that it is working as efficiently and productively as possible for members of the armed forces.
European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill
Gavin Robinson ExcerptsTuesday 22nd October 2019
(6 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill 2019-19 View all European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill 2019-19 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, I give way to the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson).
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
I am very grateful to the Prime Minister for giving way. I have heard clearly not only what he has tried to do this afternoon to assure the House, but his answer to the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith). How can the Prime Minister square the pledge he has given—that Northern Ireland can fully benefit from free trade agreements—with the provisions in the agreement he reached at article 13(8) that require the EU to have a say in whether we secede from the protocol arrangements?
The Prime Minister
There is absolutely no provision for the EU to have a say. As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are special provisions in the agreement that apply to Northern Ireland in respect of trade in goods, sanitary and phytosanitary measures and the single electricity market. The benefit of that temporary four-year alignment is that it allows us to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland—that is its great benefit—and to respect the Good Friday process, but those arrangements are automatically terminated after—
Oral Answers to Questions
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(6 years, 11 months ago)
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John Penrose
My hon. and gallant Friend, having served in Northern Ireland, speaks with huge authority on this matter. I suspect that successive Governments have to share some blame for failing to fix it over many years. Clearly, as I said in my previous answer, the situation cannot be allowed to continue—it is not right; it is not just. It must be sorted out as promptly as possible. On that, I hope that he and I agree.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
It was with regret that yesterday we got the revelation from the Government—through a written ministerial statement, rather than an oral statement—about the proposals for the way forward. We should hang our heads in shame that we intend to treat service personnel who served in Northern Ireland differently from those who served overseas. When I questioned the Attorney General on the issue on 31 January, he said clearly that to treat service personnel differently would plainly be wrong. He was right, Minister, was he not?
John Penrose
The important thing, as we heard repeatedly in last week’s urgent question and in Monday’s Westminster Hall debate, is that for those servicemen and women who served under Operation Banner it felt the same no matter what. Our challenge is that, if we are to come up with an answer that will work when it is taken to court by the lawfare-mongers, as it inevitably will be, we must have something that works on the basis of the different legal starting points for things that happened in the UK, as opposed to things that happened abroad, but that ends up with an answer that feels the same to our servicemen and women and provides them with the same robust protections no matter what.
Votes at 16
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(7 years, 1 month ago)
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Alex Chalk
Let me make one last point. Before I came into this place, I spent a lot of time as a barrister, and when I go into schools in my constituency such as Pate’s Grammar School, Balcarras or Bournside and ask, “If you were accused of a crime you had not committed, would you be happy to be put on trial with a jury made up of 16-year-olds?”, the schoolchildren often say, “Perhaps not.” Just imagine the inconsistency. The trials that I have prosecuted might involve post-mortem photos—really grisly and explicit photographs—and we take the view as a society that people aged 16 are not old enough to watch a film in the cinema such as “The Wolf of Wall Street” or “The Silence of the Lambs”, or to see those kinds of explicit photographs in a jury trial. If those people were considered old enough to vote, that would be a troubling inconsistency.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The hon. Gentleman is making a point about how we need to follow opinion polling. Does that mean that, based on opinion polling, he will be making representations to legalise capital punishment again?
Alex Chalk
No, I do not think that. Of course, it is right to recognise that opinion polls do not determine everything that happens in this place, but I would hate for the impression to somehow be given that there is a groundswell of popular support for votes at 16. That is not the case at all. By all means, let us have the argument in this place and try to shift public opinion if that is where some Members want it to go, but it would be wrong to create the impression that public opinion is with them. I simply do not think it is.
Gavin Robinson
There is a strength to the hon. Gentleman’s argument about consistency, although I detect a change in the overall direction of travel of Parliament on this issue. Could I ask him to return to his point about consistency, reflecting that there is now a lack of consistency with Scotland and Wales?
Alex Chalk
There is, and one could take the view that because the position has changed in Scotland, we should reflect that throughout the entire United Kingdom. That is a legitimate argument, but if one takes the view that the decision in Scotland was an aberration, why would we want to continue it elsewhere? I want to make it crystal clear that Scotland has a very large measure of devolution; it is a country, to a very large extent, and it is important to recognise its differences. [Laughter.] Well, it is a country.
Oral Answers to Questions
Gavin Robinson Excerpts(7 years, 5 months ago)
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John Penrose
Having been in the job for three and a half weeks, I am afraid that I do not have the precise number, but it was very many and the tragedy was huge.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
One of the last formal acts I did as Lord Mayor of Belfast in 2013 was to unveil a memorial stone in the Belfast City Council memorial garden to the Ulster Defence Regiment and others who served in Operation Banner. May I invite the Minister to come with me to see the memorial there and to consider how best nationally we could reflect the Government’s recognition of sacrifice in Northern Ireland?