Rules of the Court of Judicature (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) (EU Exit) 2019 Civil Procedure (Amendment) (EU Exit) Rules 2019

Helen Goodman Excerpts

Monday 25th February 2019 General Committees

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McDonagh. I have a number of questions for the Minister, because the minute a Minister says, “This is only technical,” everybody’s alarm bells ring.

The Minister will recall that Her Majesty’s Opposition supported the Government’s stance on the right to challenge when we took the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act through the House. Quite a lot of questions were asked in the House of Lords, where it was felt that having an administrative process before we moved on to the involvement of the court was wrong. I accepted what the Minister said and agreed that some people who would wish to challenge sanctions have vast legal resources. If we were not to have an effective process, it could make it extremely difficult and expensive for any Government to run an effective sanctions policy.

None the less, I was a little surprised by the two statutory instruments and I have some questions because I am not convinced by them. My underlying question is, what sort of sanctions situation would warrant the use of this secret procedure? In what respect is it like a terrorism episode? It is rather a different sort of thing and I am not clear that the procedure is justified. Although the Minister set out in some detail how it would work, he did not go so far as to explain why it is necessary. I want to ask the Minister who a special advocate is, and what sensitive material comprises.

Do we have a process that includes the possibility of using closed courts under the existing sanctions regime, which is run from the European Union? The obvious question is, if we do not have that process at the moment, why is it necessary to tighten up after 29 March? The Minister has not explained how it works now, whether this is a change and, if so, why we need the change at this moment.

Will the Minister also remind the Committee of something, although people are probably aware of it? He said that the possibility of a closed courts process is allowed under the 2010 and 2008 legislation. Am I right in thinking that that is about financial sanctions, and that all he is doing in this legislation is requesting a closed court procedure for travel bans? Those are the questions on which we need reassurance before we agree with him; we have not had those reassurances so far.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McDonagh.

I have a few questions for the Minister, the first of which is a technical one. There is no statutory instrument for Scotland, so I assume a similar process is being gone through in the Scottish Parliament or in a different statutory instrument Committee. Will he clarify that, so that we have coherence about the sanctions regime across the UK as a whole?

Secondly, I share the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland on the Front Bench about the use of secret courts and closed sessions more generally. Having served alongside those working in government and with sensitive material, in particular in the international sphere, I understand the need for such courts in certain cases, but I believe fundamentally that those cases should be very restricted. We do not want to set any wider precedent for our courts or such services.

[Helen Goodman]

The other thing that the statutory instrument lacks is any process for review of how the process is working—not the individual sanctions, but the process and its secret aspect.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Alan Duncan]

May I express my deep gratitude to the hon. Gentleman for his learned and well-timed intervention?

[Helen Goodman]

Does the Minister expect that the Government will make a habit of being bailed out by the Opposition?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

No, because at the last count there were not many of them left.

The statutory instruments lay down the procedure for sanctions designation appeals where cases go to court. The vast majority of those cases will be based on open source material, but, as with terrorism legislation, the statutory instruments provide for the closed process to be used where necessary. Most material will be open source, but, given that we are dealing with some pretty dodgy people, information from intelligence sources may have led to the decision to designate someone. Therefore, as with terrorism—the parallels may get quite close—the SIs provide for a closed process that allows that material to be discussed. I say to the hon. Lady and to all other hon. Members that there is nothing sinister about that. It replicates what happens elsewhere. It is tried and tested, and I would argue that it is very straightforward.

The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth asked, “Why not Scotland?” The 2018 Act provides that Scotland will make its own rules of court. That follows the existing precedent in the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 and the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010. The Scottish Government have been consulted, and are aware of the need to do that.

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland asked about special advocates. A special advocate is a specifically appointed lawyer, whose functions are set out under rule 79.19 of the Civil Procedure Rules. Their role is to consider sensitive material and to ensure that the proceedings are fair. They will represent the interests of the designated person.

I was asked whether there are closed proceedings in the EU. There are some similar, but not identical, processes in the EU. Owing to the need to safeguard sensitive member state evidence, those procedures have not been used regularly to date. The use of them for UK sanctions will appropriately safeguard our information.

I hope that I have answered the questions that were raised. The statutory instruments are straightforward. They broadly replicate what happens elsewhere in similar court proceedings, and I urge the Committee to accept them. I commend the rules to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Civil Procedure (amendment) (EU Exit) Rules 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Civil Procedure (Amendment) (EU Exit) Rules 2019 (S.I. 2019, No. 147).—(Sir Alan Duncan.)