Fixed Odds Betting Terminals

Hugh Bayley Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

The Minister is arguing that there is a serious problem, and she keeps wagging her finger at Labour Members and saying it is our fault. [Interruption.] Listen for a moment. She seems to acknowledge that there is a serious problem, so will her Government legislate to address the problem before the next general election?

[Mrs Grant]

We believe in doing things properly. We are waiting for the research and have put pressure on the industry to produce the data. Reports will be coming out imminently, and precautionary protections will be put in place by the industry at the end of March. We will do whatever is needed to ensure that people are protected. Although planning is a matter for the Department for Communities and Local Government, my officials are in regular discussion with colleagues from that Department about betting shop clustering.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Coffey]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I recognise that if we displace an activity in a controlled environment there is the risk of creating an uncontrolled environment. We should also consider some of the briefing we have been given. The Gambling Commission says we cannot use the gambling prevalence survey results specifically to identify the causation of problem gambling. Some of the research, which alluded to secondary data research, said:

“Virtual gaming machines had the strongest association with gambling-related problems, but few people endorsed that they had played these games during the past 12 months. These findings suggest that popular perceptions of risk associated with specific types of gambling for the development of gambling-related problems might misrepresent actual risk…The range of gambling involvement frequently is a better predictor of disordered gambling status than type of gambling. This finding is important because it represents a deviation from the tendency to focus on specific games, such as fruit/slot machines as central to gambling-related problems.”

We should be looking instead at global behaviour characteristics. That is the research that was referred to by the Campaign for Fairer Gambling, but it does not support its own particular view.

There are different surveys on whether poor people are being targeted, including from Public Health England. Table 3.9 of the British Gambling Prevalence Survey 2010 specifically sets out the participation in gambling activities in the past year in relation to FOBTs by the index of multiple deprivation and shows that there is no particular difference between the classes. Scotland has the highest prevalence of FOBT use in the country as a whole.

I do not deny that there are individual cases. We know that there are problem gamblers—the latest estimate suggests between 300,000 and 400,000, and those individual cases will be absolute tragedies. We may have heard them on the radio or met them in our surgeries. They may have bet the family silver. Families are torn apart by the problem, but this is no different from what happens when people are driven to similar distraction by other addictions, such as to alcohol or drugs.

I respect the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), but he says that all he is talking about is a few more powers. The basis of our English law is that we can do what we want unless the Government and the law intervene to restrict us, and we see that with crime, planning and so on. We must be careful when we stop legitimate gambling on the basis of anecdotal research. It is a bit like the many campaigns that we receive. We tend to hear from less than 1% of our constituents, and we cannot assume that everybody thinks the same.

[Hugh Bayley]

rose—

[Dr Coffey]

I am sorry but I only have 45 seconds left.

We need to think carefully about any changes that we propose. I supported the Select Committee’s report and we need to take a measured approach. We need to continue to work to try to tackle the problems of problem gamblers, but that does not mean that we should throw away the freedoms people rightly enjoy to gamble, whether that is on our high streets or elsewhere.

I cannot support the Opposition motion. The Government’s amendment provides a reasoned approach to ensuring that we continue to tackle the problem and I will therefore support the Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

Let us start on a note of cross-party unity: I agree with much of what the hon. Lady has just said. I have limited time, so I will cut directly to the chase. I see five Ministers on the Treasury Bench, all of them well educated and intelligent people, so I ask them to think about the contradiction in the case they are making. They tell us that the Gambling Act 2005 was a mistake, which has intentionally or unintentionally given rise to the current problems, although those of us present in 2005 will remember that we did not talk about fixed odds betting terminals at any length, but about super-casinos and other matters. Ministers tell us that that 2005 Act, introduced by a Labour Government, has created a major problem. They blame us for bringing it in and then for doing nothing to correct the situation over the subsequent five years.

I say to those Ministers that if there is a problem—they accept that there is one, as we heard from the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant)—they have a five-year window in which to do something about it. Let me challenge the Minister: will the Government legislate during this Parliament to correct what they have told us today about the grave errors in the 2005 Act? I lay down the same challenge to the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), who is going to reply. If Ministers seriously believe that the accusations made against Labour Members are correct—that there is a serious problem, which I believe there is, and that it needs solving—let me say, “The ball is in your court, chum”. Are Ministers going to bring forward legislation before the general election?

Secondly, Members of all parties have rightly pointed out that the top 10% of constituencies with the highest use of, and with the highest profits taken from, FOBTs are largely in deprived areas, although they are not all in those areas. I would like to mention a group of places in the top 10% that I would call tourist destinations. They include my constituency of York Central, Blackpool South, Brighton Pavilion, Bournemouth West, Cambridge, Great Yarmouth, Kensington, Norwich North, Oxford East, Torbay and the two Westminster constituencies.

I do not believe that the proliferation of high-street gambling in these tourist destinations is good for tourism. If someone comes to York and has a flutter on York races, that is part of a day out, and if £20 is lost on a race, so be it; it can probably be put down as part of the cost of a good day. If someone comes to York and loses £1,000 on one of these terminals, they will not think that they have had a good day out, and they will not forget it. For tourist towns as well as the deprived areas, this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.