Democratic Republic of the Congo

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Westminster Hall

[Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I thank the Speaker for selecting this important debate on the situation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I also thank the Minister for coming to reply to the debate.

I will start by making three points that I want everyone here to remember. First, a staggering 4 million lives are estimated as lost due to conflict and conflict-induced poverty in the DRC. Secondly, although it is a country rich in resources, which if used properly could transform it, it is one of the poorest nations in the world, ranking 187th out of 187 in the UN human development index. Thirdly, the average life-expectancy for a man is only 47 and for a woman, 50. The infant mortality rate is around one in 10.

The DRC is the second largest country in Africa by area, and the 11th largest in the world. With its population of 66 million, it is the 19th most populous nation in the world and the fourth most populous in Africa.

The DRC is a vast country with immense economic resources, although it has been at the centre of what could be described as Africa’s world war, which has left it in the grip of an ongoing humanitarian crisis. The five-year conflict pitted Government forces, supported by Angola, Namibia and Zimbabwe, against rebels backed by Uganda and Rwanda. Despite a peace deal and the formation of a transitional Government in 2003, people in the country still remain in terror of marauding militia and the army. It is estimated that the war claimed in excess of 3 million to 4 million lives, either as a direct result of fighting or because of disease and malnutrition.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this important debate. She mentioned Rwanda. Does she not find it extraordinary that the UK Government reinstated aid to Rwanda when, on the basis of UN information, the Rwandan Government have been aiding rebels in eastern Congo?

[Pauline Latham]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. The situation is difficult, because Rwanda has itself suffered terrible conflict. I understand that the money that has been given to Rwanda was not to support the Government but for humanitarian reasons.

The war has had economic as well as political implications. Fighting was fuelled by the country’s vast mineral wealth, with all sides taking advantage of the anarchy to plunder natural resources. That vast mineral wealth has also led to illegal exploitation.

In September last year, the DRC held its first democratic elections. Observers hoped that for the first time the Congo’s history of poor governance and rebellious factions could be put to rest. However, for those living in many parts of the country there has been no such relief.

In April of this year, a rebel military group, the March 23 movement commonly reported as the M23, was formed. It is based in eastern areas of DRC and mainly operates in the province of north Kivu. The group is currently involved in a conflict in the DRC that has led to the displacement of large numbers of people. On Friday, the United Nations Security Council reiterated its condemnation of and demanded an end to all external support being provided to armed groups, particularly to the M23, which has been destabilising the DRC over recent months.

Several experts currently based on the ground—for instance, the director for central Africa of the International Crisis Group—recently confirmed to the all-party parliamentary group on the African great lakes region that many facts point to a likely resumption of attacks from rebels and army in the coming weeks or even days. That has been confirmed by the M23, which declared in a statement released last Saturday to announce the new name of its military wing, the Congolese Revolutionary Army—ARC—that it expected imminent attacks from the armed forces of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, FARDC.

The M23 mutiny has also contributed to a less commented-upon consequence: the increase in activities of other armed groups in other parts of the Congo, especially the Ituri region of the Orientale province and the Masisi territory of the north Kivu province. Rebel groups took advantage of the security vacuums created by redeployments of the army to M23-affected areas. Casualties since April are hard to assess precisely, but the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights declared that preliminary findings from missions of the UN joint human rights office in the DRC, carried out in Masisi territory, suggested that civilian massacres perpetrated by the FDLR—the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda—and the group known as Raia Mutomboki may constitute crimes against humanity.

In particular, the DRC’s eastern provinces of north and south Kivu have witnessed increased fighting over recent months between Government troops and the M23. The ongoing violence has led to an alarming humanitarian situation, marked by rape, murder and pillaging. The fighting has displaced hundreds of thousands people, including many who have fled to neighbouring Rwanda and Uganda, as well as within the DRC. Peacekeepers from the UN organisation stabilisation mission in the DRC—MONUSCO—have been aiding the DRC Government’s troops in their efforts to deal with the M23. Last week, six UN peacekeepers and a local interpreter were wounded in an overnight ambush, while returning from a patrol with 12 other peacekeepers, near Buganza in north Kivu province, after finding the bodies of four civilians.

As well as expressing deep concern about the deteriorating security and humanitarian crisis in the eastern DRC, caused by the M23 and other armed groups, the UN Security Council also condemned the M23’s attacks on civilians, humanitarian actors and UN peacekeepers, and its abuses of human rights, including summary executions, sexual and gender-based violence and the use of child soldiers. An M23 combatant, who recently spoke to Human Rights Watch, was candid about the recruitment of child soldiers in Rwanda. He said:

“We recruit everywhere in Rwanda and street children are very susceptible to recruitment.”

Let me very clear about where I stand on the issue. As far as I am concerned, Rwandan military and civilian officials who recruit children under the age of 15 for the M23, or any other group, are responsible for war crimes. Sexual violence is a common tragedy facing women and children in the DRC and the charity Tearfund estimates that 48 women and children per hour are raped in the country, mostly by armed groups as well as civilians. If that happened in this country, there would be an outcry.

The correlation between rape and the spread of HIV has been demonstrated in several cases. Some reports estimate that 20% of raped women are HIV-positive. Diseases such as cholera, diarrhoea and nematode infections resulting from poor water, sanitation and hygiene are also commonplace in the area. The links between sanitation and sexual violence become apparent when, owing to the lack of access to private latrines, women face no choice but to find private places to defecate, often at night and a considerable distance away from their homes, further increasing their risk of sexual violence. The organisation War Child states that this is the

“most dangerous place in the world to be a woman”.

Those sentiments were echoed by Hillary Clinton, who added:

“It truly is one of mankind’s greatest atrocities. This country has witnessed humanity at its worst.”

Rape as a tool of war is, in my opinion, a war crime and must be condemned in the strongest manner possible by the whole international community.

There are now more than 2 million internally displaced persons—IDPs—in the DRC, the highest number within the past three years, with 1.5 million IDPs in the Kivu provinces alone. There are now more than 320,000 new IDPs from north Kivu since April, owing to the M23 mutiny alone—as mentioned in the latest UN Security Council presidential statement released on Friday, which I referred to earlier—and more than 400,000 new IDPs across the provinces since the mutiny.

Aid workers in the region claim that they have exhausted their resources and capacities and that numerous IDPs are unreachable either because they are in remote areas or for security reasons, and dealing with that would require humanitarian corridors to be set up. The global UN-led DRC humanitarian action plan is still only 47% funded. The UN refugee agency has launched an appeal for almost $40 million to cover the needs of 400,000 internally displaced people in north Kivu, south Kivu and Orientale provinces and of 75,000 refugees—25,000 in Rwanda and 50,000 in Uganda—who have appeared since the M23 rebellion started in April.

The UNHCR has warned that the situation remains volatile and that it expects further displacement this year. It fears that the number of new IDPs may reach as many as 760,000 in the coming months. The agency also said that it was particularly alarmed about the large number of human rights violations in north and south Kivu, where more than 15,000 protection incidents, including, murder, rape and forced recruitment, have been reported since April.

Given the magnitude of the new displacements, the World Food Programme has launched a new emergency operation from September 2012 to June 2013, which will assist approximately 1.2 million people in five provinces. Three weeks ago, it declared:

“We need additional funding to be able to continue to assist this very poor population. So far we have mobilised only 15% of the total cost of this emergency operation.”

UK aid to the DRC will increase from about £147 million in 2011 to £258 million a year by 2015, which amounts to £790 million between 2011 and 2015, with £176 million to be spent on wealth creation, £130 million on humanitarian aid and £109 million on governance and security.

In 2010-11, the DRC was the UK’s seventh largest recipient of bilateral aid and the third in terms of bilateral humanitarian assistance. In the past five years, western countries alone have invested more than $14 billion in the DRC. International aid is now equivalent to nearly half the DRC’s annual budget. As such, donors have considerable leverage over the DRC. Yet despite all that aid, nothing substantial ever seems to happen to stop the suffering of the people of the DRC.

The DRC will continue to receive billions in aid, including in humanitarian assistance, to help to relieve the suffering of the hundreds of thousands of people displaced by the numerous ongoing conflicts, while the lack of efforts by the Congolese Government on good governance, on structural reforms in the security sector, the army and the justice and administration sectors and on decentralisation will thwart any positive developments in stabilisation.

Despite all the ongoing work and the amount of aid being given by the UK and the international community, the DRC will not meet any of its millennium development goals. However, if the UK Government continue with their current policy, which I sincerely hope they will, then by 2015 we will without doubt fulfil the targets for the DRC, set by the Department for International Development. Those targets include delivering more for poor people by promoting economic growth and wealth creation; helping to build peace, stability and democracy; and meeting various specific targets such as safer births, clean water for 6 million people, and protection from malaria for 15 million adults and children.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) on securing the debate. She has shown a strong interest in humanitarian issues in this part of Africa, both before and since entering the House. She has raised some interesting points and I welcome the opportunity to debate the topic, as I share her concerns about the situation in eastern DRC, as do a number of hon. Members, two of whom also spoke this morning. The region has also been the subject of a number of recent parliamentary questions. The topic itself is the responsibility of the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mark Simmonds), who is unable to be here today.

The deteriorating humanitarian situation in the DRC is extremely worrying. There are 2.3 million internally displaced people, up from 1.7 million at the end of last year. The strengthening and proliferation of armed groups in 2012 as the national army has redeployed to tackle M23 has led to a sharp increase in the number of attacks on civilians, including alarming levels of sexual violence, forced recruitment and other human rights abuses.

Access for humanitarian agencies to affected areas is limited. The UN humanitarian action plan called for $791 million, but only $412 million has been raised to date. My hon. Friend asked about UK aid to the DRC. As she notes, the UK is one of the largest contributors of development aid to the DRC, and over the next four years the UK will deliver significant results to the poorest and most vulnerable people. We are committed to providing a minimum of £27 million of assistance each year until 2016. We call on others to follow suit and give this crisis the attention and support it deserves.

The DRC remains one of the most challenging environments in which to deliver aid. Questions over further UK aid support to the DRC are first and foremost for my colleagues at the Department for International Development, and I will ensure that the debate is brought to their attention. I am also aware that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development will continue to review the programme to ensure that the money is reaching the right places in the DRC while also achieving value for money for the British taxpayer.

Looking beyond the humanitarian crisis, we want a stable and prosperous DRC. The international community needs to respond to the drivers of the conflict. We therefore welcome the presidential statement issued by the United Nations Security Council on Friday 19 October. The statement condemns M23 and all its attacks on the civilian population and emphasises the need for countries to respect the principles of non-interference, good neighbourliness and regional co-operation. We want a regional solution to what we believe is a regional problem. We welcome the leadership that the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region has shown thus far. The ICGLR has achieved a ceasefire, or, more accurately, a lull in the fighting. I say that because clashes have, alas, continued. Although they are not at earlier levels, they are enough to remain a concern. The fact remains that a rebel group with external support is in control of part of the DRC. That is clearly unacceptable.

We also welcome the ICGLR’s proposals for a neutral international force to tackle armed groups in eastern DRC, though details remain to be decided, and an extended joint verification mechanism to monitor the border between the DRC and Rwanda. We urge its rapid deployment.

[Ian Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Swire]

No, I will continue, if I may. In a moment, I will answer the question that the hon. Gentleman put earlier.

However, the crisis requires a sustainable political solution—something that the ICGLR has not yet been able to address in depth. The UN is working on the problem and it held a high-level meeting in New York on 26 September, which my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary attended, during the UN General Assembly. We were disappointed with the outcome, but it is crucial that we continue to work with the UN, with regional groups such as the ICGLR, the Southern African Development Community and the African Union, and with our international partners to ensure there is support for regional efforts to find common ground for a lasting political solution. We should not pretend that this will be a quick and painless process, but it is vital that we see progress soon, given the terrible impact of the crisis on the ordinary people of the DRC, which my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire described.

We want to explore what more the UN peacekeeping and stabilisation mission in the DRC—MONUSCO, or the United Nations Organisation Stabilisation Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo—can do to support efforts to find a solution, as well as fulfilling its vital and primary role of protecting civilians. In addition to working through the UN and supporting regional bodies such as the ICGLR, we will continue to maintain pressure on the Rwandan and DRC Governments about their roles.

For Rwanda, the message is that it must play a constructive role in resolving the problems in eastern DRC and stop all support for M23. That message has been given many times over the past six months. For example, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister gave it during a meeting with the President of Rwanda, Paul Kagame, in July, and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary did the same during a telephone call with the Rwandan Minister for Foreign Affairs on 29 September. Our high commissioner in Kigali has reinforced the message on many occasions with a number of senior Rwandan figures.

I want to address the question put to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) on the continuation of aid to Rwanda. The decision to disburse £8 million of general budget support while reprogramming the remaining £8 million to targeted programmes on education and food security took account of the fact that withholding the money would impact on the very people we aim to help. By reprogramming some of the general budget support, we signalled our continuing concern about Rwanda’s actions in eastern DRC.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman was not trying to make some kind of cheap political point about the issue. The point is that we are committed to helping the poorest people in the world and we believe that there are people in Rwanda who are still deserving of our support. The decision to continue that support was taken across Government.

[Ian Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Swire]

No, I will not.

The message for the DRC Government is that they have a major role to play if the cycle of violence in the east of the country is to be broken for good. They need to show leadership and to address, in practical ways, the underlying causes of instability in the region. A sustainable peace can be found only if all external support for armed groups in the DRC stops and if the DRC Government show leadership in finding long-term solutions.

My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire rightly focused on the issue of sexual violence in the DRC and the appalling stories—those which we hear of—emanating from that part of the world almost daily. We utterly condemn the use of sexual violence in conflict, wherever and whenever it takes place. In the DRC in particular, that horrific situation persists and will leave lasting scars.

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary recently launched a new initiative on the prevention of sexual violence in conflict. We are setting up a UK team of experts who will be deployed to conflict areas in support of efforts to prevent and investigate sexual violence. The initiative will provide crucial funding support to the UN, and we will also work to help other countries to develop their capabilities to prevent and investigate those terrible crimes. I hope that the initiative will also enjoy the support of all parties in the House.

As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary also announced, the UK will use our presidency of the G8 to secure commitments from others to tackle sexual violence in conflict. With the UK showing international leadership in this area, that is an appropriate point at which to draw my remarks to a close.

Human Rights Violations

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. It has also been a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). He has given us a comprehensive account of human rights issues that relate to the professions. In a sense, the account was depressing because of the number of cases to which he referred and which exist. I commend him, however, on the quite unusual achievement of making me read a Conservative policy document—something that does not always occur—and it was of great interest. It is positive that the hon. Gentleman secured the debate and that it was instigated by the report. In all the contributions to the debate we have heard a broad commitment to the principles of human rights, which we share.

We are fortunate in the United Kingdom to be able to speak out in Parliament, and outside Parliament, on these issues. However, we must always be cautious about suggesting that we are in a state of grace. The Minister has visited countries in north Africa on many occasions, and one challenge when visiting such countries is the suggestion from individuals that perhaps our own record bears closer scrutiny. We need to bear that in mind when we talk to other countries, because they can quote examples to us that show that we have not behaved—sometimes in the not too recent past—in the way that perhaps we should.

The debate is about human rights in relation to professionals, and I thought about that focus. Overnight, I heard the dreadful news about the death of a US State Department official in Benghazi in Libya, and that brings home to us the dangers that exist for professionals who are working in a representative capacity. What is distinct about the people in the group that we are discussing today is that they put themselves in a position of danger for the benefit of others, and it is a fundamental part of a developing democracy to acknowledge and accept that someone in a representative capacity may or may not share the political views of those whom they represent. It is important to communicate that concept. The hon. Gentleman is nodding. As a barrister, he will be familiar with that idea, but individuals from other jurisdictions do not always recognise it.

There have been a large number of high-profile cases, some of which have already been referred to. On business, the country that crops up is Russia. We have heard reference to Mr Gordievsky, Platon Lebedev and the Magnitsky case and the profound impact such cases have on democratic culture in Russia. The perception of British business of the inadequacies in the jurisdiction and the courts in Russia is a real issue that crops up in the conversations that I have with British companies that invest in Russia. The Russian Government should recognise that these cases are important and profoundly affect the perception of Russia in the United Kingdom.

A free press is fundamental and central to a democracy. Journalists throughout the world pay a high price to secure information about wars and corruption. Organisations such as Reporters Without Borders document the human rights abuses that journalists face globally. Although there is some variation in the figures presented by the UN and the International Federation of Journalists, it is clear that globally journalists, as we have heard today, are still coming under repeated attack and being censored, kidnapped, threatened, arrested, jailed, forced to flee and even killed.

The hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) referred to the crucial role of the BBC World Service, which I take every opportunity to commend. It has done tremendous work in Arab spring countries and has a real impact in creating a culture of democracy that we all need to continue to support.

In March 2012, UNESCO drafted an action plan on the safety of journalists and the danger of impunity. The report notes that there has been little improvement in the safety of journalists in the past few years. The draft action plan emphasises the need to extend UNESCO’s work to assist countries to develop laws and mechanisms to support freedom of expression and information and to implement the rules and principles set out in its 1997 general conference resolution on violence against journalists. I ask the Minister for an update. When will the five aims of the plan be implemented and what resources will the UK devote to them?

The Arab spring has shown the huge importance of citizen journalism, with the impact of tweeting, blogging and video footage. Such journalists often have a wider impact than official journalism, so we need to be conscious that those individuals need to be included in any consideration of the protection of journalists. It is important for us to support them in every way we can.

The hon. Member for South Swindon made an interesting suggestion about the legal profession: UK lawyers taking a more active individual role in developing democracies. I would be interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that and to discuss it. When individuals are having difficulties in finding jobs, engaging with such organisations as the Bar Council and the Law Society, developing contacts with developing democracies and stressing the importance of the rule of law, perhaps through the use of young lawyers, would be a useful way forward. We have heard of the threat to young lawyers in places such as Columbia and Nepal. The situation is extremely concerning, and those lawyers always face pressure and attacks. What action is the UK taking to develop and maintain relationships with lawyers in countries where we know they are at risk and to ensure that embassy staff visit lawyers and provide support to them? Do the UK Government have any plans to provide support and technical expertise to Governments and lawyers, to increase the understanding of the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary and to investigate human rights violations?

Health professionals are important and have been mentioned. In Bahrain, about which we have heard, doctors and nurses were accused of criminal activity. What began with the denial of access to medical treatment for injured protesters in February 2011 ended with security forces attacking hospitals, including the largest public hospital in Bahrain. How are the Government working with the International Committee of the Red Cross to support its project, “Health care in danger”, to help ensure the safety of health care workers during armed conflict?

The hon. Gentleman’s report mentions progress made in Bahrain. I am afraid that this week’s news of the rejection of appeals by individuals such as Mahdi Abu Deeb, the former president of the Bahrain Teachers Association, is a serious setback to hopes of reform. The UK Government have, to my knowledge, been quiet on the issue. What steps is the Minister taking in connection with the rejections of those appeals this week?

The National Union of Teachers in the UK does much work to raise awareness of the challenges faced by teachers, as hon. Members have mentioned. According to the NUT, the situation for teachers in Colombia, Ethiopia and Iran is of special concern. In 2011, the Iranian authorities attempted, as we have also heard, to shut down the Baha’i Institute for Higher Education. What action are the UK Government taking to protect the human rights of teachers?

I should like to ask the Minister about Government policy relating to human rights more generally. I am pleased that the Government have carried on the previous Government’s initiative and published an annual human rights report, and I welcome their words on human rights. But the hon. Member for South Swindon mentioned lip service, which registered in my mind. We must avoid paying lip service to these issues. Difficult decisions and questions arise.

We learned in a Foreign Affairs Committee report earlier this year and from other corners, including Human Rights Watch, that there is a developing perception that, in some instances, the UK Government deem commercial relationships more important than dealing with human rights issues. As a former Business Minister, I am aware of the conflicts that can arise, as mentioned by the former Foreign and Commonwealth Office Minister, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne) in evidence to the Foreign Affairs Committee, when he recognised that, although there is no inherent contradiction between business and human rights, short-term tensions can arise. One example of that is the UK Government’s decision to take no stance on the Bahrain grand prix—Bahrain has been mentioned a number of times today—in stark contrast to the Leader of the Opposition who saw the event adding to instability and conflict in Bahrain. Will the Minister update us on how the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is managing those short-term tensions between commercial interests and human rights? Does he think that the UK Government’s stance on the Bahrain grand prix helped progress on human rights in Bahrain?

In its report, the Foreign Affairs Committee emphasised the need for human rights to feature more significantly across the Government. Will the Minister give hon. Members an update of the progress the Foreign Office is making to ensure that UK Trade and Investment, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and UK Export Finance in particular take full account of human rights in their dealings?

British embassies are rightly placing the emphasis on trade, investment and business abroad. What emphasis are they placing on important human rights issues, such as those raised today? I do not expect a full breakdown from the Minister now of the number of individuals in embassies who are dedicated to working on human rights, but, as we have heard today, this is an important issue, not just for Her Majesty’s Opposition, but for UK Government parties. Such important matters weigh prominently on the minds of parliamentarians.

The UK has a great tradition in such areas, and we want to go out there and speak clearly and authoritatively on human rights issues. To do that, we must ensure that when difficult issues arise, we take a principled and correct decision, although at times doing so may be difficult, and make it clear that we will not accept the suppression of human rights to commercial interests.

This has been a useful, timely debate. I thank the hon. Member for South Swindon again for initiating it and look forward to the Minister’s reply.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 4th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Absolutely. The position of Christians is vulnerable not only in Syria but in other middle Eastern countries, and it is an issue to which we regularly return. The Syrian opposition must not only come together as a united front for the purposes of negotiation and transition in this crisis, but reinforce at every opportunity their commitment to the representation of all groups and religious affiliations through their own composition and through support for the rights of all communities in Syria. That is crucial and is constantly reiterated by our special representative to the opposition.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement yesterday and for reporting to the House so promptly. One of the areas that he has identified as of real concern is the overspill of refugees and humanitarian problems across Syria’s borders to the adjacent nations. What specific assistance is he giving to the countries that are offering so much to those people?

[Mr Hague]

Our assistance takes many forms. Our main assistance comes from what the Department for International Development is doing in support of international agencies and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. That is helping to fund the supplies for people in camps who have crossed the border into Jordan and Turkey. Again, through international agencies, a lot of that aid is getting to people inside Syria as well. There are specific projects, for instance to help the victims of sexual violence who have gone to Jordan, which I talked about yesterday, and to help buttress Lebanon and support the work of its armed forces in maintaining its own security. So we have a lot of specific projects, too.

Zimbabwe (Blood Diamonds)

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure as always to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Havard. It has been a privilege to listen to my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain) in this extremely important debate, in which Members have shown their collective experience, knowledge and wisdom. The debate is useful in framing an important period for Zimbabwe. It gives us an opportunity to set some context for the important elections due to take place next year.

I have listened carefully to my right hon. Friend, whose knowledge of the issue we all understand. He brings with him the specific experience of having been a Minister for Africa and having been involved in the Kimberley process. We need to use this debate to consider, analyse and assess where the Kimberley process is. If we are to make progress in dealing not just with Zimbabwe but with Africa as a whole, the steps taken by the international community and international institutions to assess the income from the extractive industries in Africa will be a key part of belief in governance and politics in Africa going forward. It is important that we take that into consideration.

I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) for his important observations on the importance of independence in judicial processes, which is still sadly lacking in Zimbabwe. He also made an important point about preparations for next year’s elections. Will the Minister reflect on the contribution that parliamentarians can make in observing elections in countries that are undertaking extremely important consultations on constitutional matters? There is an increasing tendency for parliamentarians to be excluded, ironically, from election observation missions. It is a sorry trend. There are a lot of missions. For example, I went to the Congo last year at a very important time for a very important election—the visit was funded by Christian Aid—and I think that I was the only Member of the House of Commons present, although I was joined by a colleague of mine from the House of Lords. It is important that the House of Commons considers the role of parliamentarians at important elections in countries such as Zimbabwe.

With all due respect to the hon. Gentleman, however, we have to be careful and think about the context of our relations with Zimbabwe, the way in which the United Kingdom is perceived there, and our connections and imperial past. That is never an excuse for bad behaviour, but, as I will say later, we need to operate from the perspective of principle and ask what the right thing to do is in dealing with the elections. We must try to avoid the lazy accusation that is so often made against the United Kingdom whereby our actions are perceived through the prism of our imperialist past by some in Zimbabwe, particularly the Zimbabwean Government.

My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) made an excellent contribution, as I would expect. I promise to read Roy Bennett’s speech, and I am sure that she will give me full details of it following the debate. An overall assessment of the position in Zimbabwe is desperately needed. We have made some progress. Obviously, the involvement of Mr Tsvangirai in government has mitigated some of the dreadful things that were happening earlier in the decade, but it is clearly the case—much of what my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath has said explains why—that some individuals in Zimbabwe are extracting vast wealth and they are using it for their own personal interest. That explains their desperate efforts to retain power and I take on board the scepticism of my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall about them ever giving it up. We have to do all we can to ensure that the people of Zimbabwe, who have suffered so much in recent years, and who still suffer, have the opportunity at the ballot box to elect a Government who truly represent their interests, and not the partial and corrupt interests of many of those people to whom my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath has referred.

We have also heard from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who made the important point that this is not just a matter for the British Government. Obviously, we operate at a European level through the European Union’s institutions, but this process can lead to a positive result only if the international community works together. Institutions need to be developed that can effectively monitor the way in which international trade is conducted and that can ensure that the proceeds of the huge wealth under discussion are used for the benefit of the Zimbabwean people.

On that wealth, transparency in the extractive industries will be key both to effective governance throughout many states in Africa and to dealing with the curse of corruption, which still afflicts so many countries in Africa. We have focused on Zimbabwe and the diamond industry, but the principles of openness and accountability are essential if we are to build credibility and belief in politics in Africa.

Today is an important opportunity for us to reiterate our support for and solidarity with the people of Zimbabwe, following the country’s tragic recent history, and to recognise the bravery of so many of the Zimbabwean people who have stood up to state-sponsored violence and intimidation over so many years. We as the United Kingdom have a responsibility to promote peace and democracy in Zimbabwe, and successive British Governments have been guided by the principle of how best to make it possible for the people of Zimbabwe to decide on the future of their own country. Of course, our own relationship has been perceived through the prism of our historic role, but it is important that our present policy is based on principles of openness and accountability and that it should be seen as such by the Government of Zimbabwe.

To set that relationship in context, the previous Labour Government increased aid to Zimbabwe to £67 million in 2009-10, and I am pleased that the present Government have maintained their own commitment to bilateral support. We want to do all we can to support the people of Zimbabwe, and our own constituents also feel strongly about the issue. The Government of Zimbabwe should recognise that. Our commitment is an historical one and it should continue.

It is extremely important that we pay tribute to the valuable work of a number of organisations in and around Zimbabwe, including Global Witness, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath has referred, the Open Society Foundations, and the British Trades Union Congress Action for Southern Africa, which arose out of the anti-apartheid movement. They have all informed and contributed to the debate.

I note that Members from all parties have started questioning the credibility of the Kimberley process. The evidence produced by my right hon. Friend is extremely important and deeply worrying. What is the UK Government’s present assessment of the credibility of the Kimberley process? Do they think that enough is being done to regulate the diamond industry fully and properly, both generally and specifically in relation to Zimbabwe? We have agreed during this debate that the issues are of international importance and that they need to be dealt with on an international basis. In order to achieve an effective international process, we must have belief in the processes that we have set up. My right hon. Friend has raised some real concerns, and unless they are addressed, it will be difficult to retain the trust required in the process to enable us to participate effectively.

This debate is timely, because just a few weeks ago a group of western ambassadors visited two high-security mining fields in Zimbabwe—the Chinese-owned Anjin and Marange resources. The group was headed by the EU ambassador to Zimbabwe, Aldo Dell’Ariccia; the first visit was by foreign diplomats. The Minister will know that, since the EU ambassador’s return, he has spoken about his doubts about the transparency of the operations. What discussions have the UK Government had with the EU ambassadors who visited the fields, and what were the outcomes of the recent visit?

We have also heard of Members’ concerns about enforcement. Critics believe that the Kimberley process appears to be applying enforcement only to crimes committed by rebel groups, but not to human rights abuses committed by Governments such as Zimbabwe’s. The Kimberley process took the decision in November 2011 to lift a ban on the sale of diamonds from the Marange fields in Zimbabwe. We have heard the evidence today; it is deeply disturbing and specific in content, and without a response to those allegations it is difficult to extend further support and confidence to the Kimberley process. What representations have the Government made to those supervising the Kimberley process on human rights abuses in Zimbabwe’s diamond fields?

As I have said, transparency is crucial in all extraction mining activities, including the diamond sector. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath set out, the Opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change, runs the Ministries of Finance, of Education, Sport and Culture, and of Health and Child Welfare, while Mugabe’s ZANU-PF retains other Ministries, including the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Mines and Mining Development. The Finance Minister, Tendai Biti, reports that the Treasury is yet to receive money from the owned Anjin and Marange diamond reserves, and a crucial and simple question must be addressed: where is the money going?

It is essential that funds from diamond reserves go directly to the Treasury of Zimbabwe so that it can support the people of that country and their specific needs. As we have heard, life expectancy remains low, but the Zimbabwean Government are slowly rebuilding the education and health infrastructure. We—the British taxpayer—are trying to help with that process, but we must know and understand that the proceeds of Zimbabwe’s wealth will be spent on Zimbabwe’s real needs: doctors, nurses and teachers.

In a bilateral aid review by the Department for International Development for 2011-12, the Government rightly focused on the UK’s commitment to improving health and education for the people of Zimbabwe, including maternal and child health, water and sanitation. We cannot, however, countenance a situation in which the proceeds of Zimbabwe’s wealth are used for the personal aggrandisement of politicians, or the corrupting or influencing of elections. It has been widely speculated that money is being diverted from the progress that we all want to see, and used instead to supplement and support President Mugabe’s security forces. None of us wants a repeat of the horror and bloodshed that took place in the run-up to the 2008 elections in Zimbabwe, when ZANU-PF supporters and secret policemen killed and tortured hundreds of people. There are reports that Mugabe’s regime has already used diamond money to buy weapons and invest in training to intimidate voters in the elections. Less than a year before Zimbabwe’s next election, can we be confident that diamond assets will not go towards funding ZANU-PF electoral violence?

I look forward to hearing the Minister reiterate the UK’s support for the reform of security forces in Zimbabwe, particularly with regard to preventing ZANU-PF violence and intimidation in the run-up to elections. What discussions have the UK Government had with the Southern Africa Development Community and the African Union to push the issue of security sector reform?

I hope that the Government are working with the international community to ensure the strong presence of electoral observers—including parliamentary observers—both prior to and during the elections in Zimbabwe next year. Reports suggest that the EU is considering removing or suspending some of the targeted sanctions. What discussions have the Minister or his colleagues had with the EU on that issue, and what is the position of the UK in those discussions?

We all know that Zimbabwe has great potential, not only because of its courageous people but because of its past agricultural productivity, resources and the region’s natural advantages. Given our strong historical ties, the UK has a responsibility to do all it can to help to ensure that Zimbabwe becomes a prosperous, stable country. That includes ensuring that the diamond process is transparent, that funds reach the Treasury and that the population benefits. It is our responsibility to exert as much pressure as we can to achieve that end, and I hope that the Minister’s comments will reaffirm that collective goal.

[Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair)]

Thank you. I call Geoffrey Clifton-Brown.

West Bank (Area C)

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to be here in Westminster Hall under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke, and to have listened to the contributions to the debate. As always seems to be the case when we have debates on the middle east, we have not had enough time for people to expand their arguments. It would be very welcome indeed if we could have a longer debate. Perhaps we could consider approaching the Backbench Business Committee to ask for an opportunity to discuss matters at greater length. That would be very helpful.

I also want to draw Members’ attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I was privileged to go to the middle east—to Israel and Palestine—recently, in the company of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran), my right hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr Denham) and the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes). As a member of Labour Friends of Israel, I visited Israel last November, in the company of the shadow Foreign Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander).

On my most recent visit, which was about two months ago, I was struck by the urgency of the issues relating to Israel and the Palestinian Authority, and by the profound frustration that I found on the west bank in Ramallah when I spoke to representatives of the Palestinian Authority about the pace of progress in the discussions that were taking place. Like most people, before I went out there I was aware that people were perhaps looking to a second term for President Obama as a time when there might be some progress. However, the message I received from the Palestinian Authority was that the situation on the ground was very pressing indeed and much more urgent than I had appreciated. There is a real sense of frustration, and I feared what the consequences of that frustration might be when I visited communities in the west bank.

Let us be clear. If we are to build a two-state solution, which I think everyone in the Chamber wants, there must be two viable states, which are secure in their borders. It is, of course, accepted that the precise nature of the two states—their geographical outline—will be a matter of negotiation between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but the continued expansion of the settlements poses an urgent threat to the future for a two-state solution.

I was very struck when I was in Israel by a discussion that I had—other Members in the Chamber were present—with an official from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. First, he said that, in his words, “A one-state solution would be a disaster for the state of Israel.” Secondly, he said that he wanted to see a two-state solution but time was running out for the creation of two viable states in Israel and Palestine. The reason why time is running out is the expansion of the settlements, which is happening each day, each week and each month that goes by. The Palestinian Authority has done a very good job in improving security, which is a profound and legitimate concern for Israel, but it feels that it is not making progress with Israel in the way that it wishes to.

Many of us are very frustrated by the present approach of the Israeli Government. I am a very strong supporter of an Israeli state; for so long, although thankfully no longer, it was the only democracy in the middle east. However, it is imperative that we continue to engage with Israel, and I deplore those who suppress discussion and debate with legitimate organisations that support Israel, because none of us will get anywhere by cutting off discussion and debate; it is very important indeed that they continue.

When I meet friends from the Israeli embassy, I always make clear my frustration about the expansion of settlements. It is a key issue and it must be resolved. One or two comments in the debate have rather diminished it, but it is central and it must be resolved if we are to make real progress.

I am afraid that when I visited the west bank I was depressed by what I saw. I will talk about one particular visit, which was to Hebron, a beautiful city.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt)]

Very sad.

[Ian Lucas]

It is profoundly sad, because Hebron is a place that I would love to see in better times. In the centre, a horrible concrete wall runs down the middle of the main shopping street, which separates Palestinians from Israelis. It is profoundly sad to see, and the situation is clearly untenable in the longer term.

Sometimes I think that we have too many maps of Israel and Palestine, and not enough good sense, because this is about attitude, state of mind and trust between communities. Of course people have lived together in communities for a long time in the region, but it is imperative that some element of trust is built up. In the Palestinian Authority, it is very clear that Prime Minister Salam Fayyad is highly thought of by the Israelis, and the security situation has improved enormously, but the authority feels that the progress that has been made, including some economic progress, is not being rewarded by progress in the creation of an atmosphere of trust that will lead to proper negotiations that will bring resolution to the dispute.

Israel has a very strong record, with an independent judiciary and judges who stand up to the Government, much as our judges do—sometimes—in this country. However, I am afraid that Israel is not applying the law fairly in areas of the west bank, as we have heard. I visited a military prison where juvenile offenders were being tried. They had not had access to legal advice; indeed, they were not allowed to have their parents present at interrogations. Israel could do something about that. Israel has a proud tradition of giving individual rights to people, and that tradition should be extended to those courts. I have written to the Israeli embassy expressing that view in forthright terms, because this is about building up trust.

At the moment, there is an increasing sense of resentment in the west bank among Palestinian communities who are seeing the expansion of settlements. “Settlements” is a very misleading word, because they are huge estates and developments; they do not appear temporary at all. We need a different attitude from the parties to the dispute, to begin to take matters forward. I hope that comes from the creation of a new Government in Israel—set up in the week I was there—but as yet, I am afraid that no progress has been made.

I urge the Minister to convey the strong views that have been expressed today to the Israeli authorities and to Palestine, and to ensure that the Palestinian Authority sees that engagement with Israel and discussion about the pressing issues is vital—I am sure he will. There needs to be active discussion, certainly before the presidential elections in the United States. The current situation cannot continue. The two-state solution is under threat.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt)]

Yes. We do indeed regard a robust and effective arms trade treaty as absolutely vital. We have continued the work done by the previous Government. There is a strong degree of consensus on this, but it is important that the treaty is both robust and effective. Negotiations are due to start on the final leg of this in July, in New York, and Ministers will be keeping a close eye on it.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

In Egypt, as we speak, the army appears to be working to frustrate the outcome of the democratic election that took place at the weekend. What action are the UK Government taking to support the people of Egypt who voted in that election?

[Mr Hague]

We welcome the peaceful conduct of the second and final round of Egypt’s presidential elections, but this is a critical moment in the move towards democratic, civilian-led government in Egypt. We are concerned by recent announcements of the dissolution of Parliament and the reintroduction of powers of arrest and detention for the military. We want the process of drafting a new, inclusive constitution and the holding of new parliamentary elections to be taken forward as soon as possible and the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), has today been making those representations to Egyptian Ministers.

Foreign Affairs and International Development

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 15th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

It is a form of pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn)—I say “a form” because I well remember in 1992 I and others tried to unseat him, but, having listened to his eloquence and passion, it is probably right that we failed.

I thought that this debate would focus on Europe and the EU, but I suppose that, like many other hon. Members, I should be relieved that it has not. Instead, it has been a very wide-ranging debate. But, of course, Europe and the EU are important to us. It is our nearest neighbour and biggest marketplace. We all know that 50% of our trade links directly into the EU, the City of London is the financial centre for the trading of financial instruments and we benefit significantly from the single market, largely because we were its principal architects. These facts are undeniable.

We also cannot be blind to the fact, however, that the storm clouds now gathering over Europe, particularly in the eurozone, significantly hamper our attempts to get ourselves out of the mess into which we have got over the past several years and to dig ourselves out of the debt into which we have dug ourselves. We cannot deny these facts. My hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris) said that some countries, such as Greece, are in crisis. More disturbingly, more countries, such as Spain, Portugal and Italy, are in sclerosis. There is an economic and financial degeneration in Europe that could take years to arrest, which is why we need to raise our sights above and beyond Europe, as we always have done, to the new and emerging marketplaces in the far east, south America and the old Soviet bloc.

The Queen’s Speech made the point that we

“will build strategic partnerships with the emerging powers.”

I am pleased to read that, and I rather hope that two of the areas in which we will seek to build partnerships will be a big country and a small country. The big country is China, which, curiously, was not mentioned overmuch by either Front-Bench spokesperson, although the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) made a passionate and eloquent speech.

My eyes were opened to China when I visited with a Select Committee early this year. The growth in GDP each year in China has been stupendous. We all know the figures—14% growth in Chongqing, 12% growth in Beijing—but that hides the reality of a city such as Shenzhen, which, 30 years ago, was a village in a paddy field, but which is now a vibrant trading city of granite and glass, with 10.5 million Chinese souls living in it. The bicycles have gone and the fuel-injected engines and 4x4s have come instead. The young Chinese, who have dreams of tomorrow, have high-carbon dreams: they want the nice home, the nice car, the nice holiday—and they are going to get them.

Looking around those cities, one will see the countries providing them with those dreams. The cars are Volkswagens, Audis and BMWs. It is Germany, I fear, which is providing the icons of quality in China that those young Chinese want to see and buy. I hope, then, that the Foreign Office will redouble its efforts to expand our commercial consular service in China, particularly in the western provinces, which are growing even quicker than the east, to ensure that British businesses, including construction businesses, can put their stamp on China, earn money for our economy and make the point that we, too, can be icons of quality in that massive marketplace.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting and thoughtful contribution. Does he agree that we must look at the tariff arrangements that act to the detriment of, for example, our export of quality automotive vehicles, such as Bentleys and Rolls-Royces, to areas such as China?

[Christopher Pincher]

The fact is that there is a massive expansion of those goods in China, which is the key market for cars such as Bentleys. I would like to see more cars sold from Britain to China, but we do not make them and have not done so for a rather long time.

I would also like to mention a smaller country. Azerbaijan is a young country, but it has a thriving economy that has grown by about 21% over the past four years. It operates a 27% surplus and is an economy in which we already invest heavily. The energy infrastructure in Azerbaijan is largely provided by companies such as BP. The Manganese Bronze cab company has exported 500 black cabs to Baku and will export, we hope, about 3,000 more. So there is lots of opportunity in Azerbaijan, and I rather hope we will take it.

We need to recognise the civil liberties issues in Azerbaijan, which international agencies have seen and talked about, but they should not prevent us from recognising the advances it has made in 20 years. It had no experience of a market economy or of elected democracy, so we should recognise the advances it is making and support it. We should support Azerbaijan because it is a secular Islamic society with a tolerant approach to religion.

We should also support Azerbaijan because it is going to be—in fact, it already is—a significant energy player in its region. The oil and gas coming out of the country can have—indeed, is having—an even bigger impact on the region. The proposed pipeline from Azerbaijan through Anatolia is one example of how the gas and the oil from that country can increase the size of the marketplace in Europe. The refining capacity that the Azerbaijanis are building in Kyrgyzstan is also an example of how they are expanding their oil and gas facilities. I hope that we will continue to support that country in expanding its facilities, because that is a key way in which we will expand our interests there and encourage the elites in Azerbaijan to liberalise further.

I hold up my hand and make a declaration: I am a member of the all-party group on Azerbaijan and I have been to Baku on a number of occasions. I am impressed by the strides forward that the country is making, and I am certainly impressed by what my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe has done to try to improve links with it. However, I also hope that, building on those links, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will, at some point soon, make a point of visiting Azerbaijan to build our links further and further encourage the younger generation of leaders there towards greater democracy and liberalisation.

In the short time left to me, I want to mention another former Soviet satellite, but a very different one: Latvia. Latvia has historically had strong trade links with our country. It has had some difficulties in the last few years because, with the crash, it hit economic rock bottom. However, Latvia is now building itself up again, and I was pleased that the Prime Minister hosted the first Baltic conference in London two years ago. The Latvians were pleased with that, too. They are hosting a third conference in Riga later this summer. I hope that the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister—ably assisted, of course, by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe—will go to Riga to make clear our support for Latvia.

I remember reading a book at school by Lord Briggs—Asa Briggs—who, talking about British tradesmen in the 18th century, made the point that we always looked beyond Europe, setting our sights on the world beyond. He said that British tradesmen were “buccaneers” on the high seas of trade. That is what I think we should be. I rather hope that the Foreign Office and the Department for International Development will put aside the “cult of the gentleman” and do their utmost to assist British business and British commercial interests in China, Azerbaijan and Latvia, and everywhere else where our traders are working in our interest. It is good for our prosperity, good for our security and good for our trading partners.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 17th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

China and Russia are not part of the agreement on the oil embargo—there is no United Nations oil embargo; it is a European Union embargo—but it is noticeable that Chinese purchases of Iranian oil seem to have fallen in recent months. The Iranian nuclear programme is an issue that we discuss constantly with our counterparts. I discussed it with the Russian Foreign Minister in Washington last week and I will be discussing it with a member of the Chinese Politburo in about 45 minutes’ time. We will of course continue all those discussions.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Her Majesty’s Opposition strongly welcome the constructive and useful talks that took place last weekend, but what specific actions are the British Government requesting of the Iranian Government before the resumed talks in May?

[Mr Hague]

The most important thing in making a success of the Baghdad negotiations is that there are productive discussions between officials beforehand and that Iran comes to the table with proposals of its own for urgent practical steps that can be taken to give confidence that it is serious and sincere about the negotiations. The most important step it could take would be to demonstrate to the International Atomic Energy Agency and the whole world that its nuclear programme is purely for peaceful purposes and to do so to all our satisfaction, but it has not been able to do that.

Israel and the Peace Process

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Walker. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) on securing this important and valuable debate. I wholeheartedly support the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden) that we should have a longer debate.

As we have touched on in this brief debate, the question of Israel and the peace process has been of immense—possibly unique—importance as a political issue for 60 or 70 years and longer. We are, of course, in a very novel situation because of the democratic developments that have taken place in the middle east since the Arab spring. Although I accept that Israel-Palestine is not the only political issue in the middle east, my discussions with new parliamentarians who will be engaged in the issue in countries such as Morocco and Tunisia have shown that it is very important to them. When I have spoken to them, they have asked for Britain to play its role in making progress in the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. It is important to recognise that Britain has a role to play in this changed world.

At the moment, the situation in Israel is very fluid. Israeli elections are likely within the next year, and elections to the Palestinian Authority are also due. We know that negotiations are going on politically between Fatah and Hamas that will have a major impact on Israel and its perception of working with Palestinian representatives.

From the discussions that I have had, I am very aware of the importance of Iran in terms of the perceptions of Israel. When I speak to Israeli representatives both in Israel and here, I hear about the sense of insecurity that exists within the minds of Israelis in relation to that very important issue. I accept that Iran is not simply an issue for Israel. The proliferation of nuclear weapons in breach of agreements is an issue for the world and for the United Nations. That is an extremely important matter.

Of course, I have had the benefit of visiting Palestine and Israel on two separate occasions: first, in 2007, and secondly, last November in the company of my right hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), the shadow Foreign Secretary, when I was privileged to have discussions in not only Israel, but Ramallah. On that occasion, I was visiting as a guest of Labour Friends of Israel, and I intend to visit as a guest of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding. I hope to visit places such as Gaza later this year.

I thank hon. Members who are here today and who have been engaged with the issue for many years. It is important that the breadth of view that we have heard expressed in the debate today is reflected in the positions that are adopted by the Opposition and by Her Majesty’s Government. Britain has an important role to play in the middle east peace process. We are respected. I do not know to whom the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) spoke, but Tony Blair is respected. I have had important disagreements with the former Prime Minister on middle east policy at different times, but I have spoken to representatives of both the Palestinian Authority and Israel who appreciate the work that Tony Blair continues to do in the region. It is unfortunate that that partisan point was made in what has been a good debate.

What struck me on my two visits to Israel was that there has been progress in the west bank between 2007 and 2011. Economic progress has taken place, which is welcome and is part of the process of Israel and the Palestinian authority being able to work together. That will change individuals’ lives. We touched on the issue relating to Northern Ireland, which sometimes casts a fog but sometimes sheds light on the middle east peace process. Unless people see that, individually, their lives will be changed by progress in the peace process, they will not buy into that process. There are areas where progress has been made.

[Mrs McGuire]

Does my hon. Friend recognise the decision of the Israeli Supreme Court to instruct the Government to clear the settlement area of Migron? That is one of the largest settlement areas in the west bank and it has very clearly been identified as land owned by the Palestinians. That decision was endorsed on Sunday.

[Ian Lucas]

It is very important to recognise that Israel is a democracy and that it has an independent judiciary. We applaud those types of decisions and the fact that, within Israel, those decisions are being taken. However, pressures are coming from the Israeli Government. In the past year, they have talked about withdrawing funding from non-governmental organisations that do not support Israeli Government policy. That sort of thing does not help Israel, but the independent judiciary, to which my right hon. Friend refers, does. It is important that that is preserved. We have a situation in which some progress is being made, but that progress is not within the peace process at the present time. That is intensely frustrating.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Ian Lucas]

I am sorry, but I must make some progress. I apologise to my hon. Friend.

From my observations, the position of the peace process on the ground is intensely difficult. It is true that there had not been negotiations for a long time when I visited in November and that some meetings have occurred this year. We must, of course, welcome the fact that those meetings are taking place, but the settlements are a major barrier to any progress on securing peace. I should like to ask the Minister what efforts we are making to convey to the Israeli Government the importance of stopping settlement building. Unless that happens, the prospects for progress in the peace process are very limited.

I should also like to highlight the issue of UN recognition, because although the Labour party agrees with the Government position on many areas, we fundamentally disagree with their position to date on UN recognition. That is a matter of principle. If we really support a two-state solution in Israel and Palestine, we should establish the relevant mechanism in the United Nations. It is very disappointing that the Government took the view that that was not the correct approach.

As no real negotiations were going on, should we not have made an approach to the United Nations, which is a multilateral and respected organisation that had a major role in the establishment of the state of Israel? The state of Israel was, of course, granted recognition in 1947 and 1948 by UN resolutions on which the United Kingdom abstained. Should we not have gone to the UN to try to secure progress? It seems extraordinary that, when progress was not being made, the UK Government were resistant to using multilateral agencies and the most important multilateral agency of all—the United Nations—to secure progress.

I have been privileged to meet some hugely impressive individuals: Dan Meridor, the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, who was in the Palace only last week, and Salam Fayyad, who has been mentioned. Anyone can do business with them and, most importantly, they can do business with each other. Those individuals are clearly people who can bring and achieve peace in the right circumstances, with pressure brought to bear by the international community.

We all want to see progress in the middle east. It is one of the great political issues of our lifetimes. Progress can be achieved only through a two-state solution. We need to exert pressure from the international community to get the two parties to the negotiating table to seek a solution. If a solution is reached in the Israel-Palestine conflict, we will have a more secure and stable middle east, and an Arab spring that will bring wider democracy to us all.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Khat is certainly quite popular among many Somali people. Indeed, the only other bit of air activity I saw when I visited Mogadishu four weeks ago were planes arriving to deliver khat. However, I will certainly look at the point my hon. Friend raises and discuss it with the Home Secretary, as he suggests.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

First, may I congratulate the Foreign Secretary and his team on his work on the Somalia conference? As the final communiqué of the conference says:

“We called on all those willing to reject violence to join the Djibouti peace process.”

How will the Government reach out and engage with those individuals to facilitate the broader base for the Somali Government that is necessary to make progress?

[Mr Hague]

All the decisions that were made and set out in the communiqué at the end of the Somalia conference are to be taken forward by different authorities, and in this case by the authorities in Somalia, through the creation of a new constituent assembly and, then, a more legitimate and representative Parliament. That is a process that is there to be engaged with by people who want to be part of a peace process and want now to transform the position of their country. There will be some who are irreconcilable and wedded to violence, which is why the parallel agreement on expanding the funding of the AMISOM—African Union Mission in Somalia—forces is also important. This process is to be taken forward in Somalia, by Somalis, under the Garowe principles.