Uyghur and Turkic Muslims: Forced Labour in China

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak, Mr Dowd. I thank the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Blair McDougall) for setting the scene so well and with such compassion, understanding and detail. There is no one in this House or outside it who would say that he does not understand the issue very well. We look to the Minister to respond to our requests. I wish him well in his position—it is nice to see him back—and hope that he can give us reassurance. I am pretty sure we will be unanimous, requesting the same thing with one voice.

I congratulate the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire on his unwavering support for the Uyghur people. In my role as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, it is my duty and responsibility to speak on behalf of all those who face persecution on account of their faith, their beliefs or simply their right to exist. That is what we are really talking about here: the right to exist.

In recent years, the situation for the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang province has intensified to a level that is almost incomprehensible. International human rights organisations, survivor testimony and investigative journalism have documented alarming reports of abuses encompassing forced labour, torture, arbitrary detention, cultural erasure and much more. Evidence from credible sources suggests that since 2017 up to 3 million Uyghur Muslims may have been detained in what Chinese authorities term “re-education camps”. What a term! That is so wrong.

The vastness of the detention camps indicates an industrial-scale operation. Detainees are stripped of legal recourse, are often held without charge and are separated indefinitely from their families. The hon. Gentleman referred to children being taken away from their mum and dad. It must be incredibly difficult for someone to deal with not knowing where their children are or whether they will ever see them again.

Disturbingly, reports indicate that detainees are forced to abandon their cultural practices and religious observances under the guise of re-education. Many have been detained for so-called infractions as minor as possessing the Koran or praying at home—imagine being imprisoned for praying in your own house where nobody can see you. Somebody must have seen those people and told on them. Such charges reveal a policy not of reform but of deliberate, state-sanctioned erasure.

An estimated 80,000 Uyghurs have been forcibly moved from Xinjiang province to work in factories across China in conditions that indicate forced labour. Investigations have implicated prominent global brands—the hon. Gentleman referred to many of them; Apple, Nike and Volkswagen are just three—in benefiting from that exploitative system. Those companies need to be accountable. It is not all about profit, how much they can make for their shareholders or what they can do; it is about what is right. Human rights abuses are not right. No company that does that should think that it can get away with it. We in the west should make companies that sell in the west accountable for the process.

In 2023, a coalition of human rights groups urged global supply chains to sever ties with any forced labour practices in Xinjiang province, yet companies continue to engage in such transactions on opaque terms. In the light of that, I will ask the Minister some questions. What measures are the Government taking to enforce stricter import regulations to prevent products from those supply chains entering the United Kingdom? The hon. Gentleman gave three times at which those products are arriving in Great Britain. If we know what time they will arrive, we should be able to do something about that. It is essential that our economy does not implicitly endorse such abuses. I know that the Minister and the Government will not do that, but we need action to follow up the words in today’s debate.

The surveillance infrastructure in Xinjiang province is one of the most technologically advanced in the world. Reports from 2022 indicate that companies such as Hikvision and SenseTime have supplied facial recognition technology specifically designed to identify Uyghurs. The level to which the Chinese Communist party will go to identify Uyghurs is incredible. I do not begin to understand technology—I am from a different generation —but I understand that that is wrong. That facial profiling extends beyond Xinjiang, infiltrating public places and tracking individuals across the country, wherever they may be.

In a troubling parallel, the use of artificial intelligence by the Chinese authorities has expanded to track behaviours deemed to be suspicious. What is meant by behaviours? Is it walking down the street on the wrong side, talking to somebody or bumping into somebody by accident? What does “behaviour” mean, and who decides what behaviour is incorrect? We seem to be talking about behaviours ranging from owning certain apps to communicating with overseas contacts. That digital repression is paired with a social credit system that penalises Uyghurs and other minorities for perceived infractions, curtailing their freedom of movement and employment opportunities.

The Chinese state is taking over the very life and blood and breathing of the Uyghur people. One of the most horrifying allegations to emerge in recent years is that of forced organ harvesting. Some years ago —I believe it may have been prior to 2015—I brought forward a debate about organ transplants taking place among the Falun Gong, another religious group. There was a report that the Chinese Government were doing organ transplantation on an industrial scale. They are at it again, only this time it is not the Falun Gong but the Uyghurs, so we really need to step up.

The China tribunal chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice found credible evidence to suggest that Uyghurs, alongside other minorities such as Falun Gong practitioners, have been killed for their organs—killed for their organs. The Government remove them on an industrial scale, showing total disrespect for the people who lose their organs. In 2022, the UN Human Rights Council called for greater transparency and accountability from China and demanded clarity on how organs are sourced. Despite those international calls, there has been no co-operation whatever from the Chinese authorities. That is no surprise, given that it is an autocratic state that does not believe in human rights or liberties, or the right for people to have their own religious views and freedoms.

In the light of those grave allegations, I again urge the Minister to adopt stronger legislative measures to prevent UK citizens—citizens from this country—from engaging in transplant tourism. I understand that the previous Government took some action on that, but I am keen to hear what has been done and to get an update on where we are.

Another area of grave concern is the extensive use of biometric and DNA data collection. Since 2021, every Uyghur in Xinjiang province has been required to undergo biometric registration, including facial scans, fingerprints and even voice samples—my goodness! Alarming questions are raised about that mass data collection and its potential uses, which include heightened monitoring and the suppression of an entire ethnic group. What is it for? Repression is already there, but with the rise of sophisticated AI-driven tools, such databases could further enable targeted repression that is even more subjective, violent and difficult. I again call on the Government to press for an independent investigation by international human rights bodies and to seek accountability for that systematic abuse.

Beyond physical oppression, an insidious campaign aims to erase Uyghur culture, their language and their right to practise their religion as they wish, which is a right that I uphold and support across this great world. Xinjiang’s mosques have been destroyed or repurposed —my goodness, a mosque repurposed—when their sole objective is to let people worship their God and follow their religious viewpoints. Uyghur language schools have also been shut down and traditional practices have been banned.

In 2022, UNESCO expressed concern about the cultural genocide unfolding in Xinjiang province, yet China continues to stifle cultural expression with impunity, seeming to think that it can do whatever it wants and get away with it. Those responsible may think that they can get away with it in this world, but I believe that they will be held accountable to God in the next world for what they do wrong. I would also like to see them accountable in this world, so they get it in both places. Whatever the Government can do to make that happen would be helpful.

We are not talking about a mere matter of policy; it is a deliberate attempt to erase people’s identity, their history and their place within China’s fabric. This great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland champions the freedom of belief and cultural expression. The UK must therefore continue to voice its condemnation.

In 2023, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights issued a detailed report condemning the abuses in Xinjiang province, describing the situation as “crimes against humanity”. Those are not just words; they explain implicitly and fully what it means to be a Uyghur Muslim in China. Numerous countries have since imposed sanctions against Chinese officials involved in the abuses. Will the Minister say whether we have done likewise where we can? The UK’s response has been measured, but we now have a new Government and an opportunity to do better. I look to the Minister and our Government to do better if we can.

I call on the Government to consider imposing Magnitsky sanctions on individuals and entities proven to be complicit in the abuses. In this debate, we must send a very clear message that the United Kingdom will not tolerate human rights violations by any power in this world, no matter how great it thinks it is. I believe in a God who can strike those people down. This is a call to action: the horrors faced by Uyghur Muslims must not be met with silence or passive disapproval. The Government have an opportunity—indeed, I believe they have a responsibility —to stand with the persecuted, uphold justice and affirm our commitment to human rights.

I will conclude with this: the Chinese Government are guilty of genocide. The evidence is enormous. The cries of the Uyghurs and Turkic Muslims have to be addressed and the Chinese Communist party must be held accountable. I urge the Minister, on behalf of the House, to address the issue with clarity, conviction and above all a steadfast commitment to justice. The world is watching, and history will remember how we responded to this dark chapter and the role that we played.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Thomas]

I gently suggest to the hon. Lady that those making up the anti-growth coalition are sat on her side of the House, and I gently point out to her that the highest number of businesses to go bust for 30 years was under the Conservative party last year. I would also happily ask her to use her influence with the Conservative-led council in my constituency, which is bringing in parking charges that will certainly damage the night-time economy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome some things that the Minister has referred to regarding high street businesses, and I thank him for that, but there are many other matters. For example, in Newtownards family businesses make up a great many of the attractive high street businesses, such as Wardens, Knotts Bakery and the family butcher, and they are important, as they are in Ballynahinch. Has the Minister had the opportunity to talk to the chamber of trade in Newtownards, which is working well? Other chambers of trade in my constituency can also contribute, so has there been an opportunity to speak to them to get their ideas about the way forward?

[Gareth Thomas]

The hon. Gentleman is an assiduous champion for his constituency in this House. If he wants to bring his chamber of commerce to meet me to discuss issues in his constituency in more detail, I will happily make time to meet him and them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend often and regularly, as we do, to talk about these matters. Of course, the offshore wind supply chain is incredibly important. We have two big announcements to that end, which she mentioned, in relation to Orsted and Greenvolt, and there is much more that we can do through the industrial strategy to keep that area growing.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What discussions have there been with Invest NI in relation to supporting small Northern Ireland businesses in the digital evolution, to help them adapt and make improvements with digital technology to ensure the smooth running of their businesses?

[Gareth Thomas]

We have held discussions with a range of organisations on exactly that issue. I promised the hon. Gentleman earlier that I would meet him. If he wants to add that to the list of subjects that we talk about, I am happy for him to do so.

Paternity Leave and Pay

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Telford (Shaun Davies) for setting the scene so well. He is already making a reputation for himself in this House—well done—and I look forward to more debates in Westminster Hall.

Paternity leave in Northern Ireland allows for one to two weeks of leave to be taken. Statutory paternity pay can be paid if someone’s average weekly earnings are £123. People can also get a wee bit more in relation to that, but it is an expensive time for a family and not much support is available. If we were living in Japan, we would not have to worry about it because there they have a year’s paternity leave, but we are not. We are in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so it is very different.

Two weeks’ semi-paid leave is very little when we look at what a woman goes through in the delivery process. Now that we have an increased pension age and more parents are working into their 60s, gone are the days of grandmothers coming to help with the housework and other jobs in the first month of a child’s life. That simply is not a choice available to working grandparents and the pressure on mum is massive.

Another two weeks of paternity leave can make all the difference, especially when we consider that ladies who have had a difficult birth, an infection post-birth or a c-section, as my wife did, are unable to do any heavy lifting and need their husband more than ever. It is all about looking out for the family as a whole. I do not think we have it right when a dad has to go on the sick to ensure that his wife, who is two weeks out from major surgery, is not left alone and almost helpless with their new and totally dependent baby. When my youngest son and his wife had their last son, she ended up with a bad back afterwards, as a result of the pregnancy. That happens, and paternity care would have been great for her.

We need to offer a lot more support at what can be a vulnerable time in the life of the family. I look to the Minister to recognise the lessening wider family support and the need for the little family to navigate the period together, without taking sick leave or feeling guilty for not being in work. It is the most precious time in a family’s life and we in this House have it in our power to do more to take away stress and give little ones the best possible start in life. I know that is what everyone in this House is committed to.

Pub and Hospitality Sector

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. I congratulate the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire (Mr Bedford) on setting the scene so well.

I will speak very quickly in my one minute and 50 seconds. Ahead of this debate, the UK Spirits Alliance has stated that one in five pubs says it is at risk of closing. That is the issue before us all and before every constituency across this great United Kingdom. The Northern Ireland hospitality sector is Northern Ireland’s fourth largest private sector employer, with a turnover of some £2 billion. With that in mind, the chief executive officer of Hospitality Ulster, Colin Neill, has done some incredible work to support and help to grow the industry, so we want to keep it growing and keep the initiative and opportunity for jobs and the economy.

The key issue in my council area is tourism, as along with tourism comes the hospitality sector, so it is really important to get this right. The Society of Independent Brewers and Associates says that there are some 1,721 small independent breweries in the UK, with some 10,000 full-time equivalents, which directly contribute some £270 million to GDP each year.

Small independent breweries face restrictions on growing their business. There is a difficulty in recruiting and retaining staff. I suggest to the Minister that the creation of the new immigration pathway to facilitate the introduction of new people to the skills of Northern Ireland and the UK has been a success. There is also the issue of business rates. Pubs are taxed in a different way from most businesses, not on a rateable value based on their rent, but on a calculation of their expected turnover. I once again ask the Minister to create a more level playing field. The Government’s reforms of business rates should include a full review of the differential between a global and a small brewery.

In conclusion—keeping to your two-minute limit, Ms Vaz—there is so much that we can do or discuss to help to support the sustainability and future of our pubs and hospitality sector. I look to the Minister today for commitment and answers on what steps he will take to protect the industry, and I have hope that he will continue to communicate with representatives in Northern Ireland on these issues. I am exhausted from talking.

Whistleblowing Protections

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) for setting the scene. I have said it to him before, but it really is a pleasure to see him back in the House and in his place. We had a friendship when he was here before, and it is good to see him back and working energetically on behalf of his constituents. I also thank him and the other members of the all-party parliamentary group for whistleblowing for their continued interest in this important subject.

I said to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central that I wanted to give an example of someone who was a whistleblower—a good friend of mine—and explain how it affected him. The hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) referred to the effect that whistleblowing can have on health. My friend is dead and gone now, and anything I say will be complimentary to him and his family. It is important that, as his friend, I recall his commitment to whistleblowing and the fact that it was traumatic for him in every way.

As I say, my first experience of whistleblowing came with my childhood friend. I call him the late, great Brian Little, because he was. He and I went to school together; we grew up in Ballywalter village back in Northern Ireland. As often happens, we went to school, left school and did not see each other for 20-odd years, then all of a sudden we came together again and our friendship was renewed and reinvigorated. We caught up as our families grew up and other things happened.

I should have said before that it is nice to see the Minister in his place—I wish him well in his role—and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon).

Brian was a giant in battling for the underdog, and I miss him greatly to this day. As someone who has always taken for granted the ability to speak the truth and get respect for that, it was a great shock for me to see my friend brought so low for simply doing the right thing. That is what happened to him. He was a whistleblower. I will not go into the details of what it was or the company involved—that would be inappropriate —but the doing the right thing had such an effect on him, and he felt constrained that he had to do it. He lost almost everything, but he worked hard to get it back. He suffered from anxiety and depression, which, as the hon. Member for Shipley mentioned, is how whistleblowing affects people sometimes. He was physically broken by it, when all he did was highlight something that was incorrect in a big company. He did his job, and all of a sudden he suffered for that.

I supported Brian in his fight, and he supported me in the House with his expertise in financial matters. I have to be honest: his expertise fed into any speeches on financial issues that I made a few years ago. He had incredible knowledge of banking issues, the regulation of markets and financial matters. I miss his wise counsel greatly. He died quite suddenly on a Thursday in his daughter’s home. I perhaps had not realised just how many things he had done. He had helped so many people from all over this great United Kingdom—from Scotland, Wales, England and all across Northern Ireland—with their financial issues. The sympathy letters and emails that came in to express shock at his passing were testament to his ability to understand people and help them. He spent the latter years of his life in this world doing right, and literally hundreds of people owe him so much, as I do.

The experience of Brian and all that his family, particularly his wife Jacqui, who is still living, went through in his battle for justice highlighted to me that we certainly do not have it right in our battle for protection of whistleblowers. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central is right to bring forward this debate, because the issue is key to many people across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I recall with fondness those who dared to stand up and be counted, and that is why I am here to support this debate. I am sure others will give similar examples.

The issue is clear, as a cursory glance at the number of whistleblowing cases ongoing in Northern Ireland shows. As you know, Mr Chairman, I always give the Northern Ireland perspective. I want to give that perspective to this debate and ultimately enable the Minister and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Orpington (Gareth Bacon), to help with the questions that are being asked and how we can protect whistleblowers better.

We have had complaints in Northern Ireland on issues from covid information to Northern Ireland Water paying millions to contractors for work that had not been carried out, and on a host of issues in between. In each of these cases, it is clear that the current whistleblowing legislation is not robust enough to allow the little man or little woman to take on the big corporations. I think this is what the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central is seeking to have. I am looking to the Minister because I am pretty sure, if he does not mind me saying so, that he will be able to give us some reassurance on this issue.

While I welcome the steps proposed in the Employment Rights Bill on enhanced protections from harassment in the workplace, I feel—and I mean this gently, and honestly, and in a constructive fashion—that more could be done in the Bill to enhance protections and to ensure there is support for those who dare to speak truth to power. Truth is incredibly powerful, but it is how that truth can be expressed and how that whistleblower can get the answers, and be protected, and not be sanctioned or picked on because he or she had the guts to get up and do it.

We are all aware there are whistleblowing cases that amount to perhaps no more than a grudge against an employer, but those cases should not strip protection and support from those who are putting their necks on the line to protect the public interest and what we need to know. If something is wrong in a big company or a big corporation, it takes a lot of courage and a lot of guts to take that stand. It is my opinion that greater support should be available financially for those who determine to take those steps.

In relation to Northern Ireland I am very keen that, when summing up, the Minister gives some idea of how we can build upon this debate in a constructive fashion working with the Minister who has responsibility for this at the NI Assembly and, moving forward, how we exchange ideas on this with the regions. I look to the Minister—he is an honourable man—and ask what enhanced support we can provide for those genuine whistleblowers who are doing the public a service and who have no house to remortgage to pay legal fees, because current policies simply do not cut it.

My friend Brian had to self-fund his battle; that battle for rights, that battle for justice, that battle against the wrongdoing that he had the courage to highlight, and he was penalised for that. He ended up selling the family home to pay the legal fees. It was a quite extensive family farm. I knew his mum and dad and the family, as one comes to over the years, and it had been an ancestral home, in the family for generations, but it had to go to pay the bill. He was on the right side, but to prove he was right he had to stick fast and it cost him. I think it is true to say that he never fully got over that loss. However, Brian was a Christian and I know that his faith in God was one of the things that kept him going, even though financially, physically and emotionally, he was perhaps not the same person that I went to school with many years ago. Too many people simply do not have those kinds of money-raising facilities and also do not have the David versus Goliath mentality that Brian had. He knew that he could take on the giant because he was not alone. He finally won his case, but the effects on him were dramatic. I believe the message from this Chamber today needs to be clear: you are not alone when you do the right thing.

Steel Industry

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris. It seems like only a few minutes ago that you were chairing the last debate yesterday in Westminster Hall, and here you are again. I commend you on your perseverance and obviously on the fact that you do not need any sleep at all to look fresh and well—well done.

First, I thank the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for leading today’s debate. As he always does, he set the scene in a very admirable way, underlining his concerns, which many of us in this Chamber share as well. There is no doubt that this is an incredibly important debate not just for myself but others, and we need to discuss these matters.

Looking at the steel industry in the UK over the years, it dates back as far as the 17th century when steel production was initially established. Steel was traditionally used for larger projects such as bridge building and weight-bearing items like rail tracks—the hon. Member referred to the trains and rails in India. In 2020, steel contributed some £2 billion to our economy and was responsible for 0.1% of the total UK economic output. Jumping forward to 2023, the latest reports show that UK steel production and demand plummeted to new historic lows of 5.6 million tonnes and 7.6 million tonnes respectively, which fall well below the levels seen at the peak of the pandemic in 2020. That is unfortunately quite discouraging.

I should have said at the start, and I apologise for not doing so, that it is nice to see the Minister in her place—I wish her well. She was telling me earlier in our conversation on the way to the hall that she has dual responsibilities. I very much look forward to her response to our inquiries. Everybody’s wish in this Chamber is to see the steel industry secured. It is also nice to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), in his place, and I look forward to his constructive contribution.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

In the positive tone my hon. Friend is adopting, and maybe in a light-hearted sense, would he agree that a man yesterday showed considerable backbone, of real steel: Michael O’Neill, the Northern Ireland manager, who picked a team of under-21s and thrashed Bulgaria 5-0? That is a real backbone of steel and we need to see some positive results like that from this debate.

[Jim Shannon]

I am sure the Minister has many football skills. Last night one of the players, the young fellow Price, scored a hat trick—yes, it was an admirable victory. If everybody showed that backbone and strength of character, certainly we would be in a better place. I thank my hon. Friend—I know that was moving away completely from the subject matter but he nonetheless reinforced the point to be made.

Northern Ireland plays an important role in the success of the UK steel industry, although back in 2022 that was under attack from the damages of the Northern Ireland protocol and the outbreak of war in Ukraine. It was said at the time that steel exports from Northern Ireland could face up to 25% tax and tariffs, but it is good to report today that that has since been addressed by the Windsor framework. That is one of the positives that came out of that process: I wish there were more.

What springs to mind is the 1,100 steel businesses across all parts of the United Kingdom and the 33,400 jobs that hinge on them—we cannot ignore those; they are so important. We have seen recently the threats to job security due to decisions to close production in certain steel plants. Only two weeks ago, Tata shut down its blast furnace 4, which was the final furnace operating at the UK’s biggest steelworks in Port Talbot. That resulted in 2,800 job losses across south Wales, not to mention that Port Talbot was pivotal to steel construction in Northern Ireland. That is why, in debates on steel, we do not necessarily have to have a manufacturing base in our constituency to see the benefits. The benefits for us in Northern Ireland were quite clear: the steel produced in Port Talbot came to Northern Ireland.

The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness rightly raised concerns about the impact that our net zero advancements could have on the steel sector. It is crucial that we get this correct while ensuring a proper balance. Our defence industry relies heavily on domestic home-grown steel to build tanks and warships. That raises issues of us potentially relying too much on foreign imports, which the hon. Member referred. We should not ignore that, and our focus should be on providing incentives to the fantastic local companies we already have and putting them front and centre to the UK steel sector’s success. We must modernise to advance our steel industry and properly take care of it and get it right together.

We must also be able to source steel locally; doing so is of major importance for many industries across the United Kingdom, from aerospace and defence to boats and other transport. For us in Northern Ireland, the aerospace sector is very important.

I know the debate is not about this but I want to ask the Minister a question about Harland & Wolff that I had hoped to ask in Defence questions. Will the Minister give Northern Ireland Members some update on where we are with Harland & Wolff? During my discussion with the Minister about Defence questions on Monday, the Minister said, “Jim, ask this question and I’ll be happy to come back with an answer.” Harland & Wolff is really important, No.1, for the jobs it provides, but also for the connectivity that we have, with all parts of the United Kingdom coming together. Defence and aerospace are important for our manufacturing base in Northern Ireland, but also for the continuation of how we work better together.

I support our steel system. I want the best for it. We all want the best for it and I know that. I also hear and respect the concerns of other Members about its future. And there is no doubt at all that more needs to be done to preserve and protect it.

In conclusion, society will progress and changes will be made, but it is important that we remember the benefits that our steel sector brings to the United Kingdom economy. Moreover, there are the jobs that it provides for my constituents in Strangford and for people further afield—indeed, in all areas of this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So, I sincerely look forward to hearing from the Minister and assessing what steps our Government will take to preserve our steel sector, and I have hope—much hope—that that action will allow for all of our nations to play their part together.

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

I call the Lib Dem spokesperson, Clive Jones, to speak.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will understand that I am not in a position to define what commercial companies do. While we are trying to do what we can, I cannot do anything other than say that we are working incredibly hard with the owners to ensure that we get to a point that we want to get to.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned Harland and Wolff, and the same situation is true there. We are working hard to understand the situation and we are hoping for a resolution relatively soon.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the Minister be generous and kind enough to let us know about the situation now and what she hopes progress will be over the next few weeks, if she does not mind?

[Sarah Jones]

The process of selling the company is going through. That is a market situation, being dealt with in that way, so Government are not providing funding or anything such as that at this point. We are allowing the process to take its course, but we are obviously talking to all parties to do what we can to ensure that we get the right outcome. I have been talking to politicians from all four of the Harland and Wolff sites, as can be imagined, and there is uncertainty in each of those areas, whether that is in Scotland, Devon or Belfast. We are working hard to ensure the right outcome.

To close my remarks, in steel, not to mention the wider economy, the inheritance of this Government from the previous Government was nothing short of a travesty. We had more than a decade of lurching from crisis to crisis, with no clear plan to safeguard the future of a competitive domestic steel industry. This Government are determined to change that, making the steel industry in this country fit for the future so that it is not left behind in a decarbonised world.

The Government are on the side of Britain’s thousands of steelworkers. We have not talked about the other parts of the country where we also have steel production. Marcegaglia, which is in Sheffield, announced a couple of weeks ago that it is investing £50 million in a new electric arc furnace in Sheffield, so we have incumbents here in the UK that are doing well.

The Government are determined to ensure the future of British steel. We are on the side of Britain’s thousands of steelworkers and we are working closely with our trade unions, experts and others to develop our steel strategy. We believe that steel will forge our future, not just our past, and I look forward to working with all hon. Members in this place to develop a steel strategy that sets us up for the next 10, 15 or 20 years to come.

Business Confidence

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend. She is absolutely right: I have had conversations in my own district of Mid Sussex about supporting diversification in the rural economy. If things were changing on the high street, they would be supported; if they are in a rural business, they are blocked. I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that the Minister is listening, although it seems that his party is not here to listen. I thank hon. Members here from the other parties, who are keenly supporting their own constituents too.

As I said, this is hardly a recipe for growth, let alone stability. A farming conference is coming up shortly at the South of England showground in Ardingly in my constituency, and that will be vital to business. Sponsorship in support of that has been absolutely key. I take this opportunity to wish good luck to Fallow Meadow, a new event space in West Hoathly in my constituency—another rural business taking a chance to diversify in order to support the family farm.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for setting the scene so well. Does she agree that small businesses are the backbone of our communities—they certainly are in my constituency—yet were hardest hit post covid? Recovery has not been easy. Given the increase in the cost of living, small businesses are finding it increasingly difficult to stay competitive with the online monster. Does she agree that confidence can come only when the Government are working hard to regulate and tax online businesses effectively and support all businesses in this new tech age, so that the ones that have been there forever can still be there for the future?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, about his community and the local economy in Northern Ireland. This matters so much. These people are stridently working to earn wages every week—not only for themselves, but for their sectors, families and communities.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s point about the online challenge, which is gargantuan. It is absolutely right for us to seek to future-proof many of these businesses, which have been going for decades. It is difficult to start a business, let alone maintain one. If we let businesses fail because we do not support them for the future, we will look back in real horror.

Senior businesses, let alone small businesses, are already warning that the employment package announced last week will limit investment and reduce growth and jobs in years to come. Of particular concern is the cost imposed on small businesses. The Federation of Small Businesses is leading the charge on that, warning that small businesses will be looking at the changes with trepidation. The Government have only just managed to meet their self-imposed target of 100 days. They have left 70 measures to come in for 2026, meaning that uncertainty for businesses involved will carry on. That is a real concern.

Comments from Ministers over the past few weeks have caused chaos. First, the Leader of the House stated that there would have been a real risk of a run on the pound if the Government had not withdrawn winter fuel support from our pensioners; in the meantime, the Prime Minister had to disavow the Transport Secretary’s comments, stating that she did not speak for the Government. I say to Ministers that they speak not only for their Departments but for industry and sectors. They would do well to stop walking around with placards and remember that they are, allegedly, running the country.

I appreciate that the Prime Minister is new, and collective responsibility among Ministers is a cornerstone of Cabinet government. I am sure that this Minister will be working diligently to do what he can to support that. I was a Minister for a number of years—I was Employment Minister during the covid years—and I know how difficult it is. I genuinely wish Ministers well. Holding this debate today and being really honest about businesses’ and our constituents’ concerns has meant that the issues have been aired and heard. The national interest demands that the Government get a grip so that they can unleash the investment through the summit, spur economic growth, deliver those local jobs and live up to the promises that they have made to the British people. Otherwise, we are in for a long and costly five years.

In closing, I ask the Minister to reassure my businesses and our communities that the Government truly understand the impact of instability. What action will the Government take about Crawley college, for example? Unfortunately, it is shutting down engineering places as we strive for the new future. That concerns me because many businesses in East Grinstead and beyond need such engineering and apprenticeship places to support their future. Ministers should be truly working across Government to make sure that the next five years are a success for all our communities and constituencies, so that we have the public services and local economies that we are all striving for and aspire to.

Port Talbot Transition Project

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I say again that had the election not been called, a statement such as this would not have been not possible. It would have passed us by; that was the situation that we faced. My hon. Friend rightly talks with pride about her constituents at Llanwern, which is an incredibly important and successful part of the industrial supply chain in the United Kingdom. I will ensure, as part of the transition, that the downstream functions, which are so valuable and praised, and which carry such respect in the industry, are protected, and that the transition plan does not disrupt the business model, which is, again, proof of the sector’s success and of future opportunities.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for his statement, and I welcome his endeavours, which I think we all recognise, to create firm foundations for the sector as it moves forward. I also recognise his commitment to Harland & Wolff, to which he referred. That is indeed great news, not just for workers but for the construction sector in Northern Ireland. However, the steel industry faces the problem of affordable energy, which he mentioned in his introduction. Will he safeguard the long-term sustainability of that and other industries by immediately addressing the energy price crisis and implementing the necessary long-term green energy fixes?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for his support for what we have announced. Having a competitive environment is an absolutely key issue. I am already having extensive conversations with the Chancellor and key Cabinet colleagues, including the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, about the way to do that not just in the short term but in the longer term, when we will clearly have a significant renewable energy base. There are a lot of exciting options available, including in how we use some of that capacity in areas of low consumer demand. I can tell him that that is a key priority for getting this right in future.

Post Office Horizon: Redress

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

Members may know that Capture was the precursor to the Horizon software. It is of concern to us, and we are investigating. The forensic accountants appointed to look into the issue are due to report fairly soon, and as soon as we have their findings, we will be able to update the House on steps that may be necessary.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for the statement, and for the clear commitment to closure for all those affected. He said that the role of Government is to do right, to seek justice and to defend the oppressed. I say amen to that; that is exactly the Government’s role. It is past time that our handling of the scheme came to an end, but that can happen only when every affected postmaster and postmistress has been restored reputationally and financially, and when lessons have been learned to ensure that our reliance on computers is never again the vehicle of persecution. Will the Secretary of State assure me and the House that that has been done, and is in place right now?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I thought that the hon. Member might recognise the words from Isiah that I used in the statement. The failure that goes to the heart of what we are talking about today is not just about the reliance on computer systems over the testimony of people on the frontline; it is also about the culture of organisations and how government operates. We will definitely turn a page on all of that, but there are Members in the Chamber who, like me, have been here not just for infected blood and the Grenfell statement last week, but for Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday.

We must reflect on what has been a very difficult set of findings. I think that we can commit to making sure that we learn the lessons from them, and take them forward. That is the challenge for all of us who believe that we are here to do good, and to do as I said in the statement. There is more to do on that, but we can move in the right direction, and that is certainly what I and my Government Ministers will do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Reynolds]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that business is often frustrated by the pace at which the Government can go. We are doing a considerable amount of work on how business interfaces with the Government as a whole, how that is managed as a relationship, and how we can assemble the different parts of the state in the way needed to respond to some of our big investment opportunities.

Frankly, in the past, we have often seen the UK miss out, particularly to, for instance, the French. The “Choose France” policy has been fairly successful from their point of view by taking some investments that I believe should have come to the UK. They have got ahead of us. We have to understand that the competitive environment that we are now in is extremely challenging and we have missed out on things. We have to change and get it right and better. I will work with the hon. Gentleman— I have already highlighted the meeting scheduled with my Minister of State—and he makes a fair point that we all recognise has to be addressed.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his place and wish him well in the position he now controls. In Northern Ireland we have many businesses that can excel, but when it comes to an industrial strategy I particularly highlight the defence sector and the cyber-security sector. Just last Friday, my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) and I had a chance to visit Thales in east Belfast. Staff there explained to us that they employ almost 700 people on the site, and they also have an apprenticeships plan that is in action and are taking on another 25 apprenticeships. When it comes to expertise, they have the skills, experience and success, but they do not have the defence contracts, as they have in the rest of the United Kingdom. Will the Secretary of State say some words into the ear of the Secretary of State for Defence to ensure that Northern Ireland can play a bigger part when it comes to accessing those contracts?

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I absolutely agree with the strengths that the hon. Gentleman identified; he will know that I visited Northern Ireland as the shadow Secretary of State, partly to make that point. We are responsible for the promotion of the defence trade, so the relationship with the Ministry of Defence and the Secretary of State for Defence is very strong. I will absolutely do as the hon. Gentleman requests.