Finance (No. 3) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

As I said, the OBR considered the package in the June 2010 Budget and incorporated the changes along with other announcements. From that it anticipated an increase in business investment, and clearly there was a link between the corporation tax package and that increase in investment. We believe that by reducing the cost of capital, we will increase business investment above the levels that would otherwise have been the case.

I was struck by the right hon. Gentleman’s speech this morning in which he took considerable time to outline more than once the unemployment numbers in various regions of the UK. I was struck by the contrast between the argument he appeared to be making this morning, which was that the corporation tax cut needs to be targeted at regions with higher unemployment, and the argument he made during our considerable debate on the National Insurance Contributions Act, which was that it was wrong for us to target the national insurance contributions holiday at regions where the public sector was strong and unemployment high. I am not sure there was much consistency there, but there was great ingenuity in his speech earlier today.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Obviously any advantage to industry is to be welcomed. I understand that figures released show that only 4 million people are employed in the manufacturing sector. Has the Exchequer Secretary discussed how the corporation tax changes will benefit that sector? Is the cut acceptable to the sector? Does it feel that it will achieve the recovery in that important sector? The Government have recognised it as an important growth industry, so I would be interested to hear his response.

[Mr Gauke]

I suspect that we will debate manufacturing at greater length in the next group of amendments. However, manufacturing will benefit from the package as a whole, including the changes to capital allowances. It will benefit considerably. Indeed, it is one of the sectors that pays a great deal in corporation tax. We also believe that the changes will benefit all regions. It is perfectly right for the right hon. Member for Delyn to highlight the different requirements in different regions, and as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) will know, the Government are exploring the case for greater flexibility for corporation tax in Northern Ireland. We continue to explore that matter.

On the subject of jobs, the OBR, in its 2011 Budget publication, forecast that 2010-15 total employment would increase by about 900,000. That will not all flow directly from the corporation tax cut, but that reduction will play a part in it. We also have to recognise that most of the recent academic analysis—certainly a recent report published by the OECD—makes the case that taxes on corporation income are the most growth-inhibiting ways of raising revenue. They are inefficient, so it is right that we seek to have a lower rate of corporation tax to help the economy.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I agree with my hon. Friend. The Tory spin doctors forget that if we had followed the first reaction to the Northern Rock crisis from the then shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), we would have let Northern Rock go, which would have had a knock-on effect on other banking systems and the recession would have turned into a depression. It is perhaps not fashionable to say it, but we should thank the Chancellor and the Prime Minister of the time for the decisions they took to ensure that that depression did not materialise.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to see my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) in the Chair. I understand that this is the first time a Northern Ireland MP has chaired a Committee of the whole House, which is particularly fitting on the 90th birthday of Northern Ireland’s formation as a state.

Does the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) agree that one thing that annoys people about the banks and their bonuses is that after the Government and taxpayer bailed them out, they went on to make excessive profits? Does he agree that some of those profits should be returned to the taxpayer and the Government to pay off the money spent bailing them out in the first place?

[Mr Jones]

I agree. I am sorry that I forgot to welcome Reverend McCrea to the Chair; it is a pleasure to serve under his chairmanship. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. It was taxpayers’ money that rightly bailed out the banks; if they are making excessive profits now, which clearly they are, the banking levy would allow some payback.

If the Government are feeling timid and do not want to upset the banking sector, the amendment provides them with an obvious get-out by making it clear that there is a review at the end of the year that would enable us to see whether the levy was having a detrimental effect. Evidence to date suggests that the £3.5 billion that the bonus tax took out of the banking sector has not damaged the banking system in any way, shape or form. The public expenditure effects, however—they will affect my region and also the area that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) represents—are going to be absolutely devastating.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

If the hon. Gentleman had been listening, he would know that I was not arguing for regional variations in fuel taxation. I was saying that if we are to have variations in fuel prices, which we already have, and if the Government are to introduce a derogation and cheap fuel for certain island constituencies, clearly buying off the Liberal Democrats, the effects on the economy need to be assessed. I would also argue that if that is to happen for some of those rural communities, it must also happen for parts of County Durham where having access to a car is not a luxury, but a necessity for getting into work along the A1 corridor to Newcastle and other places. The fact that the Government are also reducing the public subsidy that local government can give to bus companies means that in the next few months parts of my constituency will have no bus services whatsoever on some days of the week.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the price of fuel. In Northern Ireland this week the price of diesel was £1.44.9 per litre, which is probably one of the highest in the United Kingdom. If there is to be regional help for the islands of Scotland, there must also be help in Northern Ireland for rural communities. Although he might have some concerns about that, would he not agree that it is only fair that that should happen?

[Mr Jones]

It is, but the islands derogation has been brought in as a sop to the Liberal Democrats. They have to get something out of this coalition, after all, and a few pence off fuel may well help them at the ballot box, but I doubt it in the long term. The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point that, if we are to assess the effect of the increase, regional variations will need to be considered.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stella Creasy]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has not been listening closely. Let me make it very clear: the figures from the Office for Budget Responsibility that I cited refer to this past year. Forgive me, but as far as I am aware, his party has been in power during that time and it has presided over this increase in the private debt that households are now taking on.

Let us talk about some of the things that are causing that increase. VAT is costing a family with children an extra £450 this year, on average, due to the rocketing cost of buying basics such as telephones and clothes and of getting a boiler or a washing machine fixed. That is before they even consider getting out and about to spend money. Many Conservative Members have talked about fuel prices, but the increase in VAT is adding £1.35 to the cost of filling up a 50-litre tank with unleaded fuel. The cut in fuel duty gives back only 1p, but the VAT increase costs us almost 3p a litre.

Those who are in work are finding it even harder to make ends meet as a result of the Budget. Since 5 April, 750,000 more workers have been dragged into the higher rate of income tax, and benefit recipients have lost £2.7 billion-worth of payments. Cuts to child care support have taken £1,500 a year from families. The £48 that people will get through the personal allowance increase in the Budget is barely a tenth of the amount that families will have to pay back through increased VAT. In two years’ time, 1.5 million families—including many in places such as Walthamstow—will lose all their child benefit. Credit Action has pointed out that, of the 45 changes to the tax and benefit system made in the Budget, 26 will have a negative impact on households.

There will also be fewer chances of getting a better-paid job, or of getting back into work, because unemployment is set to be higher in every year of this Parliament as a result of this Government’s actions.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Those in the 16-to-25 age bracket who are unemployed will soon top the 1 million mark. Does the hon. Lady share my concern, and that of many other hon. Members, about what the future holds for them?

[Stella Creasy]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have been a close reader of the work of Paul Gregg at Bristol university, who has shown how unemployment can scar young people and affect their earning potential for life. I am extremely worried about young people in this country who are facing unemployment and have little prospect of a place on a training scheme or in a university.

There is little sign that these pressures on family finances will ease. With the current wage squeeze expected to continue until at least 2013, average wages are expected to fall to less than £25,000, which is more than £1,800 lower than in 2009. People do not have the pounds in their pockets that they need in order to keep spending in the way our economy needs if it is to grow. If we add to that the anticipated rise in interest rates and mortgage payments, which has been one area of respite in the past few years, we can see that things are going to get a lot bleaker. As our newspapers warn daily, and as the Bank of England has pointed out, interest rates are likely to climb, piling pressure on the 60% of low to middle-income families who are already struggling to pay their bills.

It is no wonder that four in 10 people are worried about their current level of debt, with 4 million fearing redundancy and 4 million more having taken on debt in recent months. We know that the cuts that we have seen so far are just the beginning. The ones that families across the UK felt this month accounted for a mere 10% of the total savings planned before 2015 from changes in the tax credit and benefit system. More than 40% of the cuts kick in in 2013.

Loading debt on to households helps this Government to cut the deficit at the pace they desire, but it is the job of Opposition Members to challenge them on the cost and consequences to all of doing so. In an economy where jobs and growth are in short supply, such debts do not just mean lower consumer spending, higher levels of bankruptcy or repossessions. Nearly 30% of British parents admit they are arguing over their family finances and a third of parents are suffering the stress of sleepless nights because they are worried about money.

Such changes also directly impact on our chances for economic recovery. As the Bank of England pointed out,

“prospects for consumption…have an important bearing on the outlet for activity”,

but it added:

“Near-term prospects have weakened further over the month. The squeeze on households…was likely to dampen consumption materially over the next year or so.”

Even after a sharp reduction in its private consumption forecasts, that favourite of the hon. Member for West Suffolk, the Office for Budget Responsibility, expects British households to account for just over a fifth of economic growth this year and for almost a third next year. The truth is that if the average family is not willing to dig itself deeper into debt, those figures might have to be revised.

The Bill reflects the Government’s complacency about the challenge. There is no commitment to act on these problems—only a general sense of unease, summed up best by the Minister for Equalities, the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne Featherstone), who wrote:

“What is tough—and will get tougher—is losing jobs. People in work will mostly get by—somehow. People on benefits will mostly get by—somehow. But for those who lose their job—it will be devastating. The cuts were announced last year. Their impact has yet to fully hit. This budget promised growth. The proof will be in the pudding. And the question will be whether there’s a new job to be found within a time frame that can keep health, hearth and home together—and we need to keep a watch over that.”

Well, I want to do more than keep a watch over that, and I hope to answer a question posed by Government Members about what policies Labour Members could suggest.

Today, I argue that we could do more than squabble over Keynes or the Ricardian equivalence; we could do something to help those people in immediate danger of insolvency and bankruptcy. At present, this Bill is missing that. Given the large numbers of people facing financial difficulty, we should be deeply concerned about the strategies that families have to cope with these pressures and how the Bill could do something to help.

To cover costs, more and more people are turning to sources of credit, which might seem like short-term solutions but quickly become long-term problems. The number of people who say they are likely to use an unauthorised overdraft this month has nearly doubled since July last year—from 900,000 to 1.6 million. Similarly, the payday lending industry in the UK, with its 4,000% interest rates and more, has quadrupled in the past 18 months.

Being able to borrow in a way that does not leave a long-term scar on the family finances is the new dividing-line in our society. Those who can access mainstream credit might just scrape by in austerity Britain. Those with little option but the legal loan sharks, maxing out their credit cards or racking up unauthorised debt, could spend a generation or more trying to become debt-free.

This Government want to pretend that such kinds of personal debt are solely a private matter, but Opposition Members see the social and economic consequences and we must beg to differ. A lack of regulation of the high-cost credit market in comparison with other countries allows that industry to go unchecked in the UK. Recognition of the problems caused by casino banking in the City is widespread across the House, but that is only half the battle; we should not forget the financial needs of those in our communities. For the sake of our economic recovery and for the sake of those families, credit should not be lent in a way that is detrimental to consumers without those who profit from exploiting them being made liable for the consequences.

When this Government announced their Budget, I asked a simple question: how can they be so keen to show that they are so tough on national debt, yet so blind to the growing crisis of personal debt that their policies are stoking? Today, with this Bill before us, we are no closer to an answer, but thousands more edge closer to personal financial problems as a direct result. That is why I will table amendments to review whether the supplementary charge or the bankers’ levy could be applied in a way that would disincentivise negative, high-cost credit lending. It is time that this Government put the fortunes of every family first. Other countries have done that to protect their consumers, and I do not see why British consumers should be denied the same opportunity.

Let me offer an open invitation to Treasury Ministers to do what their colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills have signally failed to do, and respond to the concerns of Members throughout the House. I invite them to meet us to discuss how we could cap the total cost of credit. Campaigners all over the country who support such action—Churches, trade unions, community groups and consumer associations—would thank them for taking it.

I hope that Members who share my concern about personal debt will support my amendments, and will join me in holding the Government to account for what they are doing to the personal finances of families in every constituency in the country.

HM Revenue and Customs

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregg McClymont]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. There is a problem of short-term savings at the cost of long-term benefits—what we might call a false economy. I shall come to that.

We have not had any confirmation from the Government of how HMRC is to be restructured. We do not know which services to the public will go, or which services will be changed. We do not know yet which jobs will go. Before Christmas I asked the Treasury Whip about the future of HMRC jobs in Cumbernauld in a Back-Bench debate. The Treasury Whip suggested to me that the Cumbernauld jobs were safe. I understand that as it is a strategic site, its situation is different from that of some of the smaller call centres and the like. I urged the Treasury Whip to share the information that proved this to be the case: it has not yet been forthcoming, for good reason.

Subsequent questions for written answer revealed that the Government cannot give any such undertaking until HMRC publishes its business plan. It is better for HMRC to take its time and get its business plan right than to get it wrong in a rush, but that has consequences. It seems that the business plan will not appear before April. The delay and the mixed messages do not make tax officers’ jobs any easier. Clearly, the increased anxiety can damage morale.

We have heard about the situation from the hon. Member for Chichester and others. It is not surprising in those circumstances, and also given the nature of the job, that in a recent survey only 11% of HMRC employees felt that change in the organisation was well managed. HMRC employees in Cumbernauld are now just as uncertain about their future as they were when the programme of cuts was first announced in October. Such uncertainty has an impact on staff morale, and thus on productivity and performance. More fundamentally—this goes to the point raised in an intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins)—I suspect that the cuts to HMRC’s budget may well prove to be a false economy. Short-term savings at HMRC could reduce the Government’s ability to maximize tax revenue in the long run.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman, like many others in the Chamber, was at the presentation to Members of Parliament by HMRC staff last year. At that presentation, HMRC staff indicated that they were aware of revenue that the tax bodies were not collecting. Their message was clear: more staff, more tax revenue; fewer staff, less tax revenue. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government should consider the false “savings” that they will make in this year, against the tax income that they could generate instead?

[Gregg McClymont]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that observation. Clearly, this is a complex issue and there will be reasonable arguments on both sides, but it seems to me that it is a job in which morale is particularly important. I intend to refer later to the psychology of being a tax officer, which pertains to his point about raising more revenue.

Fuel Prices

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Miss McIntosh]

Some 6,000 small businesses in Thirsk, Malton and Filey will be affected, and I congratulate the FSB on its excellent campaign.

The impact on farmers—across north Yorkshire, farming is often the main business, and it certainly is in my constituency—of rising fuel prices has been catastrophic. That issue has pushed up the cost of producing livestock and the cost of taking livestock to market. Moreover, for those who train racehorses across North Yorkshire, many of whom are based in Thirsk and Malton, rising fuel prices have pushed up the cost of feeding the horses and the cost of transporting horses and jockeys to races.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

As the hon. Lady has said, rural communities in particular are suffering, and the area that I represent, which is very much a rural community, is one of those that has suffered most. Does she agree that concerns have been expressed during the past few months, particularly since Christmas, that some retailers were taking advantage of the situation in relation to the price increase? And does she also agree that there is perhaps a role for Government in relation to monitoring, controlling and regulating that situation?

[Miss McIntosh]

I am mindful of the point made by the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) about the land border between Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. In the European Union, the dream place to live as far as fuel duty is concerned is Luxembourg. I am reminded of the queues that I saw on a road in Luxembourg, which existed because the fuel duty is less in that country. So I am very mindful of what the hon. Member for Upper Bann has said and, as I said earlier, I hope that that is an issue that the Minister will respond to, because rural communities seem to be bearing the brunt.

RAC analysis of the survey “Family Spending 2010” shows that spending on transport for the average household was £58.40 out of a total weekly expenditure of £455. Transport is the biggest single item of expenditure, bigger even than food, rent, mortgage or entertainment. Obviously, ancillary services will suffer if transport costs continue to rise incrementally.

There are four options to discuss today. The first is not very realistic—it is the option to do nothing and maintain the status quo. Personally I do not believe that that is a sustainable or realistic option. Obviously, my preferred option is for the Government to pause on 1 April and not to impose the 1p rise in duty. Of course, that increase will be the eighth duty increase to have been proposed by the previous Labour Government since November 2008. I am mindful of the fact that if it is imposed, it would add at least 4p more to petrol and diesel pump prices, on top of the 1p increase in duty in January and the VAT increase as well.

The perhaps more controversial proposal to introduce a fuel duty stabiliser was first put forward by the present Chancellor when in opposition. As shadow Chancellor, he launched a fairly full consultation in July 2008 on a fair fuel stabiliser, a mechanism to ensure that when fuel prices go up fuel duty falls:

“So as the price of fuel rises, the amount of VAT charged also rises. This means that when the price of fuel goes up, the amount of tax charged on it also rises…The current system also makes the public finances more unstable. This is because, when oil prices rise, the Government receives an unexpected windfall from taxes on North Sea Oil production. And when oil prices fall, the Government suffers an unexpected shortfall in revenues.”

I take some comfort from the fact that the Chancellor, in his June Budget, said:

“We are examining the impact of sharp fluctuations in the price of oil on the public finances to see if pump prices can be stabilised, and we will also look at whether a rebate for remote rural areas could work.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 178.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) on securing this important debate. I am delighted that we have the opportunity to talk about the issue and that the Minister is present to listen to the concerns being raised, to which I hope she will be able to respond positively—if not today, then at least in the Budget.

In The Daily Telegraph in January, Boris Johnson wrote the immortal words that

“when it costs more to fill your tank than to fly to Rome, something is seriously wrong.”

I say a profound “Hear, hear!” to that—there certainly is something seriously wrong when it costs less to fly to Rome than to drive to Cullybackey in my constituency. Although that is a humorous point, it is—like all such humorous points—a telling one. The pips are now squeaking throughout this country, and none more loudly than in rural parts. Many hon. Members have already indicated that the car is not a luxury for people who live in rural areas. The hon. Lady made clear the necessity for four-wheel drive vehicles in rural parts of these islands. They are absolutely essential. That has to be driven home to the Government, who live mainly in cities. They have to recognise the needs of the rural community.

I say a huge “Hear, hear!” to the words of the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid), who spoke about an island pilot scheme. I am glad that I live on an island—it is called Ulster—and I hope that such a pilot scheme will apply there as well. I flew today from the mainland of Ulster to this island to participate in this debate, so I hope that there is recognition for a fuel stabiliser from my island as well as the hon. Gentleman’s island. It is critical. Parts of England, Wales and Scotland have remote rurality, but if ever such remoteness was multiplied—there are a channel and seas between us—we are on the periphery of the periphery. On that basis alone, we deserve some sort of recognition for our rural areas and recognition that help will be given.

I was delighted to see in the agreement that formed the new Government recognition that something was going to be done to address inflated fuel prices. I am sure that, if we cast our minds back to the election, we would all recall that fuel prices were exceedingly high and that our potential and actual voters said on the doorsteps, “You have to do something about fuel prices.” That lost momentum—it is almost as if the car is no longer filled with fuel and has stalled. Now that prices are back up, as the hon. Lady has said, to 136p—15p higher in parts of Scotland, and 10p in parts of Northern Ireland—surely the momentum must be put back into the issue and the Government must grasp the nettle.

[Jim Shannon]

Since the coalition came into power last year, fuel has risen by £2.35 per tank. Does my hon. Friend think that the onus is on the coalition Government to address that issue?

[Ian Paisley]

The hon. Lady has rightly indicated that there are four options. As a member of an Opposition party, I am prepared to leave it to the Government and say that it is up to them to come up with a solution. Let us hope that we can get something with cross-party and cross-House support, and that we can drive it forward so that it makes a difference for the people who send us here. I think that we can all agree on that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) on securing this debate. It is essential that we discuss this matter, because of its severe effect on constituencies, such as mine in south-east Cornwall. There is no doubt that high fuel prices affect everybody, but in our rural constituencies they have a disproportionate effect.

South East Cornwall has a large number of self-employed people, small businesses and people who have to commute, and we have a very poor public transport infrastructure. The railway timetables are such that often the train cannot be taken and bus companies find it increasingly difficult to provide the service that is needed, so people rely on their cars. My constituents write to me time and time again about the cost of petrol. I stood at the general election on a manifesto that contained the fair fuel stabiliser. I hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will include provisions for that in the Budget so that my constituents, including businesses and the self-employed, are at least able to budget for a 12-month period, rather than have their profits decline continuously because of the high rise in fuel prices.

I echo what all hon. Members have said in the debate, but there is one issue that has not been addressed, which is the effect of current fuel prices on our shipping industry. I declare a special interest because my husband is a commercial fisherman. People do not seem to understand that, while our fishermen are able to reclaim the duty they pay, it has a detrimental effect—in fact, a disastrous effect—on their cash flow. There are fishermen in my constituency who go to sea in dreadful weather conditions, but do not secure any return from their catch because it all goes on fuel.

[Jim Shannon]

Part of the point expressed by the hon. Lady relates to fuel, but also to the price of the commodity being less than it was three years ago and to restrictions from Europe on days at sea. Those reasons, along with the fuel increase, are why the fishing industry is in dire straits today.

[Sheryll Murray]

I could not agree more, but I want to stick to the issue of the price of fuel, which is having an effect on our farmers, our hauliers, our fishing industry and on small businesses in my constituency. In South East Cornwall, most businesses are tiny and cannot stand the impact of increasing fuel prices on their cash flow for much longer—it cannot continue.

To sum up, Cornwall has a large number of residents who have no access to the mains gas supply, or other, cheaper alternative supplies of heating. The increase in fuel duty affects the ability of a lot of my constituents to provide heating in their homes.

Court of Auditors 2009 Report

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Justine Greening]

That remoteness—the lack of the ability, day to day, rigorously to monitor how spend is going on—is one reason why we have reached this stage today. Also, it is fair to recognise that 80% of the spending happens at member state level. Therefore, there is some challenging complexity for any system in ensuring that that spend across those disparate member states, some of them new, is effective.

In spite of that, we have to get a grip. Our Government in the UK are getting a grip on departmental spending and the EU needs to do the same. I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) that I think that there is now an appetite across member states to start to address the issue. There is more of a common agenda—perhaps at the EU and member state level—to address financial management. I welcome that development, but I am also determined to harness it while it is there to get change for the better.

As I was saying, the Court of Auditors report was published at the same time as the EU-level negotiations were taking place on the 2011 annual budget.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The number of member states has risen from nine to 27, and the number of staff involved here has risen to some 200, yet the number of reports produced has gone down from 15 to six. If we are going to get a grip, we also need to get a grip on the financial situation in relation to what the Court of Auditors delivers and the work that it does. Does the Minister agree that something has to be done about that as well?

[Justine Greening]

Yes, I do. The Government thought it totally unacceptable that EU officials received a 3.7% pay rise when our Government had to propose a pay freeze for public sector workers. We are not the only member state taking difficult decisions such as that. The debate the hon. Gentleman is referring to is the one we have already actively engaged in, which is about not only the level of the EU budget, but what we spend that money on and ensuring it is spent on the right things that deliver the right priorities for people on the ground, whichever member state they are in.

We are about to engage in a debate, which is important for the longer term, on how we change that mix of investment to make it more significant. It is called the debate on the financial perspective, and the hon. Gentleman will be aware that that relates to the seven-year plan, whereas early last year we debated the budget for 2011. We have a chance to have that more fundamental debate about how we spend money within Europe. The Government are keen to lead that debate at EU level.

Loans to Ireland Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I have said that I regard this as a case in its own right—a very specific case. As I have explained, quite candidly, my officials offered me two options: a general, enabling piece of legislation allowing us to make bilateral loans to other countries, and the much more narrowly drafted Loans to Ireland Bill. I think that the clue is in the title.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Over the past few days we have seen substantial growth in the economy of the UK mainland, but that growth has not been reflected in Northern Ireland, as some of its financial institutions—notably Ulster bank—have indicated. What assurance can the Chancellor give the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Minister of Finance and Northern Ireland Members in the House that, at every stage, full consideration will be given to how loans to the Republic of Ireland will affect the economy in Northern Ireland? At this stage, we feel apprehensive about what is being proposed.

[Mr Osborne]

I completely understand the hon. Gentleman’s apprehension, given the close connections between the economies of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Let me make two points. First, as I said earlier, the loan has enabled us to be part of the international discussion about the restructuring of the Irish banks, some of which—as the hon. Gentleman knows even better than I do—are incredibly important operators in Northern Ireland. I appreciate that he will not have had a chance to study the loan agreement, as I have laid it before the House only within the last couple of hours, but one of the conditions is that there should be

“no amendments to the Restructuring Plan that would have a material adverse financial impact on the UK operations of Anglo Irish Bank, Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland”.

That partly addresses the banking situation in Northern Ireland, and, as I have said, it gives us a seat at the table in discussions that affect the UK.

Secondly, as the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said this morning during Northern Ireland questions, we want to engage with the Executive, with representatives of the Assembly and, indeed, with Members of Parliament about how we can enable the Northern Ireland economy to grow. A draft paper has been put to the Executive. I am very engaged in the process, as is my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury. I repeat the offer that I made earlier to hold a detailed discussion with Northern Ireland representatives, at any point, about some of the broader economic measures that we might be able to take in Northern Ireland to help its economy.

Crown Currency Exchange

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Tessa Munt]

Absolutely. Alarmingly, the FSA website states:

“We keep an up-to-date record of all FSA-regulated firms, bodies and individuals doing business in the UK. Our register is available to the public, so you can search for more information on all of our authorised firms.”

The problem is that the FSA seems to use “registered”, “regulated” and “authorised” almost conversationally, but in legal terms those definitions should not be bandied around on its website in such a way.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Throughout the whole United Kingdom, not just on the UK mainland, but in Northern Ireland, those who can least afford it have invested money in that system. I understand that a police investigation started today. Does the hon. Lady agree that, on the back of that investigation, a Government investigation should follow?

Banking Reform

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab)]

I compliment the hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) on a thoughtful speech. At one point, I disagreed with him and at other points I found myself very pleased with the sentiments that he expressed. The Backbench Business Committee deserves congratulation for tabling the motion and I hope we will have more opportunities to discuss the subject in Government time. We must reach consensus if we are to get this right.

I worry, particularly against the background of what is happening in Ireland, that we are going too slowly. There was an argument in the beginning that we should not do things in haste and that was sensible, but three years on from the time Northern Rock went down we should be starting to implement some of the measures, not merely discussing them. I know that there is an international context, but on the domestic front we should be further forward than we are.

The Government’s amendment mentions matters such as “regulatory architecture” and “prudential regulation”, both of which are part of the package that is going through the Select Committee on the Treasury and that will eventually come to the Floor of the House. I am not sure that they alone will matter. Basel III, according to the Governor of the Bank of England, “won’t prevent another crisis”. I think that is fair.

So, Basel III, regulatory architecture and prudential regulation are what the Government initially—certainly in this low-key debate—are putting forward as important. They are secondary to an acceptance by those who are in the banks and who own the banks of the fact that they need regulating and that they should share the objectives of the regulators. Sadly, in the past three years I have not seen any signs that that has been accepted at a senior level in the banks. If we were to look for one person, organisation or thing that started or caused the crisis, we would be wrong, but central to it were the banks’ securitisation exercises and adventures, which paralysed the whole financial structure and the wholesale markets. They must be accepted as a major part of where we are now and of what we have gone through.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The last bank bail-out—for the Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds TSB and HBOS—cost £37 billion and we were told that there would be conditions on staff bonuses, but nothing has happened in the past three years. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the things that annoys people the most is the bonuses that go to staff members when the banks are not doing their job?

[Mr Mudie]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very powerful point which links with a point I was about to make. I have described the regulatory structure. There are differences between regulators throughout the western world, but the fact that they were all caught out shows that structure is secondary and that changes to structure alone will not prevent another crisis. We have all been affected despite those different structures, so one cannot attack regulatory structures or see them as a salvation. I regard such restructuring as simply rebuilding the Maginot line: it shows the public that we are doing something, that we are hard at work and that there is something concrete, but when it comes to effectiveness, it would suffer from the same deficiencies as the original Maginot line, so I do not think that structure matters.

If the banks, the bankers and their shareholders do not accept that they have to change their practices then what do we have? We have no regret from the banks and no acceptance that they played a part in events. Let us consider their behaviour over bonuses.

Independent Financial Advisers (Regulation)

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) on securing this important debate. I am pleased that the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) referred to the Kensington Friendly Collecting Society, which is a very good organisation in my area.

As a Co-operative Member, I represent the interests of some people on low incomes who have been denied access to financial advice and products provided by friendly societies and mutuals as a result of the qualification requirements contained in the retail distribution review. The Kensington is a friendly society that has existed in Middlesbrough for 106 years. Mark Brooks, who is the chairman of its committee of management and a constituent of mine, and James Lancaster and Phil Carey wrote to me from the Kensington to raise their situation. The Kensington has 10,000 members throughout the Teesside postcode area. It provides savings and insurance products to those members for as little as £1 per week and a maximum of £5.70 per week. It provides opportunities for its members to obtain basic financial products. Without this provision, members of the society would largely be excluded from financial services and have to go to more expensive services, namely the banks, or to loan sharks.

The RDR is currently being finalised by the FSA. Its most likely outcome will be that the society will close down, which will mean that 10,000 members will lose their ability to save small sums of money for their funeral or for a rainy day. The reason is that the FSA is proposing a blanket qualification for any person offering financial advice—a qualification that is considerably higher than the current requirement. The FSA will not permit exemptions to this qualification structure, and it will not permit a gradual increase in qualifications vis-à-vis the risk and complexity of the product being advised on. The advisers at the Kensington and other societies will be required to obtain degree-level qualifications to sell a simple endowment or whole-of-life policy for a maximum premium of £5.70 per week. This is the only type of product that they sell, and the level of qualification required is disproportionate to the advice that they give.

The syllabuses of the proposed qualifications are irrelevant to the needs of those on low incomes. The exams focus on trusts, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and portfolio management. Those on low incomes may aspire to require this level of financial planning, but in the here and now they need advice on issues such as debt and benefits. The qualification requirements will mean that members of this society and others will be denied access to financial advice after 2012. The society will be unable to recruit new members because its advisers will be unable to offer advice to prospective members. A lack of new members will mean that this society and others will close. As a result, their members will lose access to financial products that they can afford and, in all likelihood, will be excluded from financial services thereafter.

That outcome seems to contradict the aims of the FSA and the Government in tackling financial exclusion. The RDR, while seeking to protect the interests of high net worth consumers, is by default taking away one of the few opportunities that those on low and insecure incomes have to obtain financial products. If the Government and the FSA are keen on promoting financial inclusion and financial literacy, then the existence of friendly societies like the Kensington is essential in delivering such benefits to those on low incomes. The concept of mutuality appears central to the idea of the big society, yet the consequences of the RDR would be to remove the remaining friendly societies that promote this notion.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the reduction in IFA numbers would also have an impact on the volume of new insurance policies and the work that would come from that?

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Yes, I certainly agree. We would lose skills and experience, as well as putting people out of jobs for no good reason whatsoever.

The qualification requirements would deliver no discernable benefit to the vast majority of consumers beyond the wealthiest few. Let me assure hon. Members that by arguing against the proposed qualifications, I am not saying that such members deserve less than the better-off, but merely stating that they require different things.

The Kensington has increased its premium income by over 40% in the past seven years despite the fact that tax-exempt premium limits have not been increased during this period. That indicates that there is a demand for the service and the products. The Kensington delivers products that fulfil real needs for those on low incomes. For example, in the Teesside area, owing to bad debt difficulties, undertakers will not proceed with a funeral unless the deceased’s relatives can provide a deposit of £750. The Kensington, among others, can fulfil that need because its minimum premium is £1 per week, which is enough to generate £1,000 of death cover. It has a local presence, which means that the agent can deliver a death claim cheque to the family directly within two working days of the member dying, and the whole process is conducted by someone whom the family knows.

The majority of members of the Kensington and other friendly societies in Teesside live in the poorest and most socially deprived council wards in the UK. Our people require honest and appropriately qualified agents who understand the benefits system, can provide advice on debt issues, and can generally assist in all forms of financial planning for those with limited disposable incomes. It is difficult to imagine that any such member would ever require advice on IHT planning, trusts, corporate financial planning, portfolio management or CGT.

The QCF level 4 is a disproportionate qualification for the home service market operating within tax exempt limits. It will not add value to consumers, nor improve the service that they receive. It will make home service sales forces even more expensive to run and will generate further financial exclusion. A more considered qualification that focused on the real, everyday financial issues that affect those on low incomes would be welcome. Current academic thinking reinforces my view, which I assume is shared by other hon. Members, that the only effective method of accessing and engaging those on low incomes in savings and protection products is a direct sales force. Indeed, the Department for Work and Pensions website states that tenant engagement teams are being piloted to increase take-up of home contents insurance,

“particularly as all other traditional methods of promotion (leaflets, flyers, competitions, prizes etc) have not resulted in large scale increases in the number of policy holders.”

In conclusion, the RDR qualification requirements for advisers selling tax-exempt, small premium assurance products are disproportionate and irrelevant to the needs of those on low incomes. The RDR will reduce the access of those on low incomes to basic assurance products at a time when significant amounts of energy and money are being invested in promoting financial inclusion in that area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Members for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) and for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) on introducing this apt motion. It has certainly galvanised a lot of interest in my constituency. Like all hon. Members, I have received e-mails, letters and phone calls, and I have held personal interviews, so I have had lots of information. My constituents have made it clear to me from the outset that this is not just about advisers who provide help to wealthy people who can stay at home and watch their money work and grow. I am speaking tonight on behalf of people who have a small sum of disposable income and who wish to enhance their small pensions at retirement age and seek help and advice from financial advisers. They have asked me to speak on their behalf, and I happen to know that some of them are watching the Parliament channel to see that I say what I said I would say.

One constituent sent me some background information, which sets out the situation very clearly. The retail distribution review appears to offer solutions—at least on paper—to matters which the FSA has identified as problematic within the industry. I am not aware of those problems, which concerns me. The FSA believes that the measures set out in the RDR proposals will provide for greater consumer confidence and engagement within the industry. It is planned that all advisers attain the qualifications and credit framework level 4 qualification by 31 December 2012.

A constituent of mine wrote:

“I have attended seminars at which RDR and the future of Independent Financial Advisers are discussed. They all have the same line…segment your client base…they give guidelines how to do this so that we have an income stream from a fee base structure. If I were to follow this suggestion I would have 3 clients left. When I question this approach, on every occasion the reply is…I need to change my market.”

Did anyone ever hear such advice in all their life? Goodness me!

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Building society closures and the exodus of the large phone service companies have reduced almost to nil the supply of premium products for those on low incomes, particular the 4 million who still feel disengaged. What do the hon. Gentleman’s constituents think about that?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I have the same concerns.

It is estimated that it takes 400 hours to do the exams. That is approximately 10 weeks when people do not have the opportunity to earn money or do what they normally do. Advisers in Strangford have painted a different picture to that painted by the retail distribution review. Most of the customers of advisers in my constituency are working class. I have been informed by many financial advisers that they have spent time with people without receiving any financial reward—we have heard that from hon. Members on both sides of the House tonight.

One adviser offered advice to a female client who was about to go through a separation. She was stressed out about her finances, but the adviser spent a lot of his time on the phone to her. For all his work, he earned not a penny. The road that the regulator is pushing advisers down will mean that they will be unable to afford time if they do not get paid. Will we therefore end up with people being unable to afford sound financial advice, exactly as the hon. Gentleman said?

I represent a rural area, as do many hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb). We are aware how the proposals will affect and impact on people in rural areas. Consumers will suffer substantial and unprecedented detriment owing to the unintended consequences of the proposals. Would it not be wiser or better to protect grandparent rights, as at least two or three hon. Members have intimated? Doing so would give the protection that many need. A substantial portion of the adviser population will leave the industry. Various surveys have been conducted and although there is no consensus on the figures, it is obvious that adviser numbers will fall drastically.

One of my constituents in Strangford wrote:

“I am 54 years of age…the heavy regulation is taking its toll. I am ¾ of the way through the new exam structure. Many advisers are finding it impossible to pass these exams as many are over 55 and are finding the stress unbearable.”

Another hon. Member referred to a 63-year-old adviser for whom contemplating exams will put him away in the head. The result will be anxiety, depression and stress. My constituent predicted a drastic fall over the next three years in the number of independent financial advisers. He continued:

“Advisers are finding the regulations unbearable, and many are having problems due to”

what is taking place. He made a statement that I found moving and honest:

“We are all starting to swallow the negativity thrown at us by the regulator over the past numbers of years, which is trying to kill us off”.

Now IFAs are facing another obstacle and barrier. We cannot afford for any businesses to be lost, especially ones that will take the financial burden off the state by enabling people to supplement their pensions and not need state aid and benefit. They are the people in my constituency and across Northern Ireland on whose behalf I wish to speak.

Robin Stoakley, head of intermediary business at Schroders, said:

“I do see up to 30 per cent of the IFA market leaving”.

How on earth could we support something that would take away 30% of the IFA market? Furthermore, Aviva UK Life marketing director, David Barral, said the firm predicts that by 2013, IFA numbers will fall to 10,000, leaving middle market consumers unserviced.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that at a time when we desperately need small and medium-sized enterprises to be increasing their activity, not reducing it dramatically, this is a disastrous thing to be happening?

[Jim Shannon]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Lady. The one great thing about tonight’s debate is that we have, I think, a united front—if that is the way to put it. All the parties are in agreement, which is good news.

Time does not permit me to go through the long list of people in the industry agreeing with the prediction of a sharp decline in the number of advisers owing to these proposals. However, it is clear that there is a definite problem with these regulations and their impact on IFAs. If the adviser population falls by about a third, as predicted, it will leave millions of consumers without an adviser. Some will migrate to other advisers—we understand that—but a great many will be left without a trusted source of advice. The UK currently suffers from the largest saving retirement and protection gaps in its history, and it is essential that these gaps and the current over-reliance on the state are reduced. I think that many in the House are prepared to accept that.

The UK can ill afford to lose 10,000 advisers. Such a catastrophe would intensify the existing problems. The UK’s leading consumer champion, Martin Lewis, of Money Saving Expert, remarked:

“There’s a worrying possibility that the FSA is about to kill off”—

his words—

“independent financial advice in the UK for all but the wealthy. I do hope I’m wrong. I’m not convinced most people will want to pay for advice. The commission route has the advantage that you don’t pay a fee each and every time you want information; you can go without the worry of laying out cash.”

That is an expert’s opinion.

I speak not only for the financial advisers in my area who have been forced out of their jobs, but for the wee man and the wee woman who have asked me to come here and fight their case for them. I also stand for the thousands of people in my constituency who benefit from the current system. People who are forced to pay for all advice offered will be unable to invest much, and therefore will not invest or, worse, will invest somewhere they should not, with dire consequences. I am aware that it is the FSA that is making these recommendations, and I ask the Minister to do the honourable thing and support the alternative proposals put forward. They would benefit the larger advisers, as the FSA is trying to do. However, we also have to look after those disadvantaged consumers, so I urge the House to support them.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—