National Minimum Wage Naming Scheme

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kelly Tolhurst]

The hon. Lady raises an issue regarding the incorrect practice of employers. As I have said, HMRC will investigate every complaint and ACAS is available to receive those complaints. We have asked the Low Pay Commission to undertake a review of the structure of the national minimum wage, and it will report back later in the year. We encourage employers always to pay above the minimum wage brackets if they are able to do so.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

The Minister has said on a number of occasions that the Government are taking tough enforcement action against employers who fail to pay the minimum wage, but between 2010 and 2018 in Wales there has not been a single successful prosecution resulting in a fine against employers for underpaying. This is not tough enforcement; it is impunity.

[Kelly Tolhurst]

The hon. Lady raises prosecutions as the only way of action or enforcement, but that is not true. I have said that since 1999 over £118 million has been paid back—to over 200,000 workers in 2019, so in just one year. It is true that there have been only 14 prosecutions. However, organisations are required to pay back the arrears, and pay a penalty, wherever a breach is found. I would like to highlight the fact that the Government have recently been consulting on salary sacrifice schemes. There have been examples in the media of workers being found to have a detriment through salary sacrifice schemes. This has been a key area in employers being caught under the national minimum wage legislation.

UN Climate Change Conference: Government Response

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2019 Westminster Hall

[Anna McMorrin]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady: we should have those consumption emissions at home in the UK and we should examine what we do, and how we count and account for the emissions that we create.

We have allowed the wealthy Governments internationally to dodge their responsibility towards the poorer countries. At Katowice, climate finance was defined in such a loose way that there is no certainty that adequate finance will be provided to help smaller countries meet their climate obligations. We have allowed loopholes to continue, which the wealthier Governments will continue to exploit.

I have secured this debate to focus attention on the action that this Government must take if we are to prevent runaway climate change—not what sounds good, but what will actually lead to hard outcomes. It is striking that it took at teenager speaking at COP24 to bring some attention to what needs to happen.

In the Minister’s written statement following the conference, she claimed that the UK Government were championing the latest climate science, but where is the evidence? The UK Government’s ambition for a net-zero carbon cluster by 2040 sounds good, but how will we deliver it? The Government have stated that they will be on track to meet the net-zero target only after the fifth carbon budget in 2032, which means that without speedier action over a much shorter timeframe, between 2032 and 2045, achieving net zero by 2045 is not feasible.

Why should we be surprised? We are still on course to miss those international carbon reduction targets. What are the Tory Government doing about that? They have sold off the green investment bank. They have scrapped the Department of Energy and Climate Change. Levels of new low-carbon investment are lower than when they took office. Subsidies and support for tried-and-tested forms of renewable energy sources, such as onshore wind and solar, have been cut, which has put jobs and new low-carbon projects at risk.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. On solar, she knows that the Government are slashing funding for solar energy, ending the feed-in tariffs for solar producers and proposing to end the exporting tariff. Does she agree that that approach has cost 12,000 jobs to date—including in Cardiff, her city and mine—and shows that the Government’s climate plan is not worth the paper it is written on?

[Anna McMorrin]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. Those are the tried and tested technologies that we should absolutely be supporting if we are going to move our economy to a low or zero-carbon economy, which we need to do to prevent runaway climate change.

New projects such as the Swansea bay tidal lagoon are given short shrift and ignored, but fracking is still going ahead, even under our national parks—apart from in Wales and Scotland, of course. There was not a single mention of climate change in the 2018 autumn Budget. It seems that the Government simply do not see climate change as a priority.

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[Anna McMorrin]

That is a really important point. We need to make sure that adequate steps are taken in all areas of Government and that action is taken to reach out to communities that are suffering on the frontline where climate change is most urgent.

Climate change needs to be a priority. The Government do not see it as a priority, but that must change. We need climate policies and targets that will lead to urgent reductions in carbon emissions. First, we must get working on achieving net-zero emissions by 2045 immediately, not push it down the road. The technology and the infrastructure are there. The Government just need the political will to get moving on the fourth and fifth carbon budgets, and make climate change a priority. The UK was once a global leader on climate change. Let it be that again. The Climate Change Act 2008 was the world’s first legal framework to set binding carbon and emissions targets. It needs to continue to live up to that precedent.

The Minister needs to think more like the Welsh. A commitment to sustainable development has long been a distinctive feature of Welsh devolution. Before becoming a Member of Parliament, I was the specialist adviser for environment and climate change in the Welsh Labour Government, and I am proud of my work helping the Welsh Government to lead the way with a green growth agenda that provides an alternative model for business. Climate policies are entrenched in the Welsh legislative framework through the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the Environment (Wales) Act 2016. A future generations commissioner has been appointed in Wales to ensure that that commitment is being delivered, which puts Wales above and beyond many Governments around the world, especially the UK Government. In Wales, a focus on low-carbon communities encourages communities to come forward with small-scale renewable energy schemes and changes to infrastructure and transport. That brings about change from the bottom up and hardwires the ability for our communities to be sustainable, which extends to the way that our housing is built and managed in Wales.

Across the UK, I want to see changes to our building regulations to ensure that we are building sustainable housing, which will make it cheaper and easier for everyone, and that there are energy efficiency targets. Action on fuel poverty in Wales has brought together outcomes on tackling climate change and on local skills training and jobs, and has helped to lift people out of fuel poverty. We need to see such policies across the whole UK, not just in Wales. That change to our economy will ensure that green growth is rooted in our businesses, our services and our communities.

[Jo Stevens]

Given the importance of European Union grants to green energy projects in Wales, does my hon. Friend agree that it would be good to have confirmation from the Minister today that those sorts of projects will be able to apply for funding from the new UK shared prosperity fund? We were hoping—we were told—that the public consultation would be open by last year, but it has not happened yet.

[Anna McMorrin]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. It would be good to hear from the Minister on that exact point.

In the light of yesterday’s Brexit vote, we need to keep in mind our role within the European Union and the importance of our being a full EU member. The EU has become the global environmental standard and regulation setter, and it has used its significant influence in trade to tackle climate change. Last year the EU announced that it would refuse to sign deals with countries that did not ratify the Paris climate agreement. That meant a huge shift in how the EU was perceived and in the action it is taking. Brexit also threatens to have hugely negative consequences for our climate action here in the UK. The loss of EU funding and leaving the EU emissions trading scheme would all mean a significant weakening of our ability to take action.

Crown Post Offices: Franchising

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2019 Westminster Hall

[Matt Rodda]

Will my hon. Friend give way briefly?

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

rose—

[Lisa Nandy]

I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens), as she has not yet spoken.

[Jo Stevens]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am losing my post office in the centre of Cardiff, the capital city of Wales. It is our last post office in the city centre. Does she agree that the Financial Times got it absolutely right when it said:

“Once a high street without a WH Smith seemed unimaginable. Now it seems almost inevitable”?

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[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans.

The post office has historically been a focal point of any community. Until recently, in my own community—in my constituency—there were five post offices within walking distance. Now there is one, which is inside a general store. We still have a few post offices in Swansea, but most of them are franchised, including the Crown post office in Morriston.

Crown post offices offer a crucial service to the local community and their potential loss will always be a great concern to that community. Citizens Advice tells us that over half the population consider a local post office to be one of the most important services in the local community. Moving Crown post offices into private hands is a worrying trend; most importantly, we do not want it to lead to the number of post offices on our high streets declining further, and we certainly do not want any more job losses than have already occurred. It is becoming a real problem in Wales, where we have seen the greatest percentage drop in the number of post offices, with 25 closing between 2017 and 2018.

Current employees of the Crown post office must have their employment protected. That issue is being championed by the Communication Workers Union with its Save Our Post Office campaign. The CWU rightly makes the argument that the decision to franchise Crown post offices to WHSmith will hugely affect those who are currently employed by Crown post offices, moving them into lower quality jobs with WHSmith, with inferior wages and hours.

[Jo Stevens]

I declare my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Does my hon. Friend agree that, although staff moving from the post office to WHSmith, for example, will have their terms and conditions protected under TUPE, their pensions will not be protected, and so they stand to lose a significant amount from the transfer between one employment and another?

[Carolyn Harris]

That is of great concern to staff members I have spoken to. WHSmith, as we have heard, was recently voted the UK’s worst high street shop. Why are we transferring a cherished brand, the Post Office, into the hands of a negatively viewed private retailer? Since 2012, 484 post offices around Wales have been modernised or moved into premises such as convenience stores, newsagents and pharmacies. Citizens Advice carried out mystery shopping in 122 of those post offices across Wales and found accessibility concerns about one in five of them.

We cannot let the transformation of post offices across the UK alter the service that they offer to our communities and particularly to vulnerable consumers. Crown post offices are integral community hubs, offering valuable services to our high streets, and the decision to franchise a further 74 is a grave mistake. It is putting jobs at risk, putting services at risk, and potentially eroding the good will and spirit in our communities.

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[Rachael Maskell]

My hon. Friend may say that, but by all judgment, Appleton’s has won the prize for the best pie shop in the nation.

To get back to business, the reality is that York’s post office is a profitable post office that works for my constituents. It is in the prime location. If the post office could choose its location, it would still be exactly where it is. However, the post office will be moving to WHSmith in Coney Street. That is not far, but the post office will be going into an area of the city that is struggling and where shops are shutting. The number of empty retail outlets that we see as we walk around is growing year on year and month on month, which is of great concern. People will not be able to pull up in their vehicle outside the post office because it is a pedestrianised area. That means that the post office will be inaccessible, particularly for disabled people but also for older residents.

The area will also have tighter controls in future. Mail vans will not be able to pop by because of the counter-terrorism measures that our city is taking—the Post Office was not even aware of that during the consultation process. If a van were to go there, it would have to be well out of hours because of the new counter-terrorism plan. It would have a very precarious route down a dark alley, which leads down towards the river and has been deemed unsafe under health and safety inspections, let alone if someone were to be in that alley with money—they just would not go there. It is deeply concerning for staff, who would have to use that as the only means of accessing the building other than going through the shop itself.

The post office will be located at the back of WHSmith. It will not be the first business to try to succeed there. Costa Coffee had a business at the back of WHSmith and it failed. In its current location, just down the road, Costa Coffee is thriving, but at the back of WHSmith it did not work. This does not make sense for the future of the post office. Therefore, its current location is the right place for it.

[Jo Stevens]

I am glad that my hon. Friend has raised this situation where the post office is transferred and shoved right at the back of an existing WHSmith store, which is exactly what is proposed in Cardiff Central. We know that very few people are going into WHSmith because it is an ailing retailer. Walking right to the back of an ailing retail shop will not make it easy for people to access the postal services they need.

[Rachael Maskell]

My hon. Friend has made a powerful point. This has to make business sense and, where it does not, it should not proceed. I also highlight the fact that custom will be lost from retailers in the city who bank and place deposits within the post office. They do not feel safe having to walk through and then queue in a retail outlet. They have already said that they will be transferring their business away from the post office. That has to be taken on board. This does not make business sense or economic sense, nor does it make sense for our high streets or my city.

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[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans, and a particular pleasure to follow a very powerful speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle). It was a salutary warning, and I suspect that some of my comments will echo the concerns of others about the so-called consultation process. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) on her powerful introduction. She speaks for all Labour Members on these important issues.

The announcement a few months ago that Cambridge was one of the post offices to be put through this process was met with incredulity in my city. People are absolutely furious. I will say a few things about our local circumstances, trying not to repeat some of the points that have been very well made already, and then make some general reflections.

The Crown post office in Cambridge has around 15 very experienced staff, who between them have 150 years of experience—experience that is likely to be lost if this process continues. The post office has already been moved across the street—that was not a popular decision eight years ago—from one of the many fine buildings in Cambridge, in order, we were told, to secure its long-term future. There are some interesting definitions of “long-termism” in the modern world. That post office is one of the most successful in the region and possibly, I am told by my colleagues in the Communication Workers Union, in the country. It has been one of the top-selling post offices for travel currency, travel insurance, travel-related products and passport checking. It is one of the top-performing post offices in the area, so we might expect it to be celebrated as a success story.

That post office is also one of the few nationally to carry out biometric services and provide international driving permits, which is what I want to focus on. There has been a huge change in our country for those coming here to work or study, which most of us—who do not have to go through such processes—are probably only dimly aware of. Those people have to have biometric residence permits. If we are to have that system, we also need a system to allow them to register their biometric data, and in my area it is the Crown post office in Cambridge to which they are directed.

[Mr Graham Brady in the Chair]

In conducting the research for this speech and talking to people locally about how the whole system works, I stumbled on what can perhaps only be described as a coincidence. In November, just after the announcement of the consultation, guess what quietly happened? That biometric information system has been very quietly transferred from the post office—although it still exists there at the current time—to the local library. However, it is hard to know how anyone would find that out, because if they go to the Home Office website or Post Office website, they will still be directed to the Cambridge Crown post office.

Let us, for the moment, continue to follow the public advice, because biometric residence permits are needed by all foreign nationals from outside the European Economic Area if they want to stay in the UK for longer than six months, extend their visa, or settle in the UK or have other interactions with the Home Office. In areas such as mine, which have huge numbers of people coming to study or work, and contribute to our local economy, this issue is enormously important. For instance, I am told that almost all the 2,000 non-EEA staff at the University of Cambridge will need to have used, or will need to use, those services, and if they cannot go to Cambridge, they will have to go to Huntingdon, Harlow or Romford, which requires hours and hours of travel on public transport.

[Jo Stevens]

I have a similar situation in Cardiff Central, where the biometric centre was in our post office, which is due to be put into WHSmith. I met with the post office to ask whether the biometric service would transfer to WHSmith, and guess what? It will not. Does my hon. Friend agree that that creates another barrier for people who are already in a vulnerable situation?

[Daniel Zeichner]

I totally agree, and that is an important point. Apparently, only 37 WHSmith stores across Britain have the wider access for wheelchair users, and if that is no longer available, people from my area would have to travel to Luton, Milton Keynes or London—a major diminution of service. It may be possible that those services can be provided elsewhere. Frankly, who knows? Maybe the Minister can enlighten us. Maybe she can tell us whether the timing of this transfer was random chance or coincidence. Maybe she can guarantee the future of our local library. I do not know, but my guess is that the Government have very little clue about the future, and I doubt that any answers at all will be offered. We shall see.

Other Members have mentioned disability access, and I concur entirely with the comments made about WHSmith in general, which I will not repeat. What I will say is that those of us who have been in and out of WHSmith in Cambridge know that it is already a crowded store. It is not listed by WHSmith as one of its wheelchair-friendly stores, and the idea that it is going to be a pleasant experience for people seems almost unimaginable, frankly. We have huge doubts. These services should be available to people and properly accessible. I say to those running the campaign on behalf of the Post Office that they should be careful of who they are taking on, because we have some pretty powerful campaigners locally. Councillor Gerri Bird led a campaign a few years ago to stop the toilets in the Lion Yard shopping centre in Cambridge being moved from one floor to another. After months of campaigning, she won and the other side lost. I say to the Post Office that it should be careful who it takes on. It would do much better to back down soon, gracefully.

Let me turn to some of the wider issues. As we have heard, the Government have said that they are worried about the high street. That is understandable; we all are. There are huge challenges, but we should not make them worse. This is not just about where a service is provided; as other Members have said, it is about the kind of institution. Many years ago, I worked for John Garrett, the former MP for Norwich South—some Members may just about remember John. He wrote a book, presciently entitled “Westminster: Does Parliament Work?”, which is good reading in these troubled times. I remember going around the local post offices in Norwich early in the morning with him, and the thing that struck us was that at every post office, there was a queue. An accountant, I suspect, would say, “Why are these people standing outside the post office when, if they came an hour or two later, they could just go in and be served?” The answer, of course, was that this was the occasion when most of those people got to see their friends. They were standing outside; as other Members have already said, it was part of a wider social issue. For the bean counters who are looking at the Post Office balance sheet, that probably does not count for anything, but it really counts in looking at the NHS balance sheet, in terms of the impact on people’s mental health from loneliness and so on. That is why the Post Office is a public service, not just a business.

People may also remember a recent, much-loved BBC television series, “Lark Rise to Candleford”. Some will remember the inestimable postmistress Dorcas Lane, who was at the heart of that local community. I suspect that series was much loved partly because it spoke to a conception of Englishness—one of fairness, kindness and public service—that many people still crave. As other hon. Friends have already alluded to, that also goes to the heart of the debate that is happening in the Chamber just a few yards away. Others have written eloquently on these related issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Dagenham and Rainham (Jon Cruddas), who was in the Chamber earlier, wrote of the then coalition Government back in 2011:

“The government is not conservative; it is liberal and extreme. Through its indulgence of the banks and corporate and media power, and attempts to sell off parts of our English common life to the highest bidder—forests, waterways, ports, the Post Office, sport and culture—it is systematically destroying the hard-won victories of generations and, in so doing, unravelling the essential fabric of this country.”

These post offices are part of that fabric. For my city of Cambridge—high-tech Cambridge—our post office is part of the essential fabric of our city and our community. I may be dismissed as a romantic socialist, and I would not disown that label, but I will conclude by posing a question to the Minister: what kind of conservative does not understand the place of the post office in an English country town or community?

Good Work Plan

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to commend Matthew Taylor on the quality of his work and the recommendations. On workforce participation, he will know from his work on the Select Committee that we have introduced reforms that give workers a voice in the boardroom, whether through a dedicated elected director, through a non-executive director who is appointed with particular responsibility to provide an outlet for the workforce, or through the establishment of a council that can take workforce opinions. The further expansion of consultation included in the plan is another reinforcement of the fact that the more workers are involved in the affairs of their employers, the better it is for productivity.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

In answer to an earlier question, the Secretary of State stressed the importance of access to justice, so will he guarantee today that he will not reintroduce employment tribunal fees?

[Greg Clark]

I think the hon. Lady knows that that is a matter for the Ministry of Justice and the Courts and Tribunals Service, and that I cannot make that commitment from the Dispatch Box. What she can see through the reforms in the plan is that the opportunity to obtain justice and see that enforced, whether through the tribunal system or through employers directly, is substantially advantaged by the plan. I hope she would welcome that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op)]

3. What progress he has made on planned consultations on (a) employment status, (b) agency workers and (c) enforcement of employment rights as a result of the recommendations of the Taylor review of modern working practices.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

15. What progress he has made on planned consultations on (a) employment status, (b) agency workers and (c) enforcement of employment rights as a result of the recommendations of the Taylor review of modern working practices.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

In the Government’s response to the review, we committed to take forward recommendations to improve clarity on employment status, boost protections for agency workers and increase state enforcement of basic rights for vulnerable workers. Consultations finished last month, and we have had more than 420 responses. I give huge thanks to all stakeholders who contributed; we will be responding very shortly.

[Claire Perry]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman and his constituents will welcome today’s news that we have record employment in the British economy. We totally agree with him that the future of work is good work, which is why we commissioned the Taylor review and want to deal with the challenges of the gig economy. I hope that we will get cross-party support for those vital protections for his constituents and for mine.

[Jo Stevens]

Rather than simplify employment law, the Taylor review has recommended introducing yet another category of workers, so we will have three tiers with different employment protections. The EU directive on transparent and predictable working that is currently being considered provides an EU-wide definition of workers, clarity and transparency, and the right to a written statement of terms and conditions on day one of employment. Will the Minister confirm that the Government will support the directive, so that it is adopted before 29 March next year?

[Claire Perry]

Again, I thank all respondents to the consultation, including many high-quality responses from the unions. We will respond to the consultation in due course.

Carillion: TUPE

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Wednesday 21st February 2018 Westminster Hall

[Eleanor Smith]

My hon. Friend is correct: this is about apprentices as well as all the other Carillion workers.

Vital contracts for delivering urgent public services are under threat. Their maintenance is an essential part of the way this country is managed under privatisation. Many long-awaited building projects, such as the Midland Metropolitan Hospital in Smethwick, are under threat and may never restart. Above all, however, I want to focus on the crucial issue of what specific assistance the Government will give to the tens of thousands of workers who have been made redundant and to the contractors whose contracts are now in doubt.

In January, my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and I met the Minister. At that meeting, I put to him four questions, which I ask him again today. First, will he bring Carillion public sector contracts back in house? If so, when and how? Secondly, what protections will he put in place for employees’ pensions, and will the Government meet union pension officers to address the many issues arising from liquidation? Thirdly, what guarantees can he give employees who were directly affected by the collapse of Carillion, and what programmes will the Government put in place to assist all those who have lost their jobs in this crisis? Fourthly, in view of the national significance of Carillion plc, will the Government set up a taskforce to deal with its collapse and all the associated fallout, and will that body include union involvement?

In response, the Minister told me that a lot of work had been done to prepare for Carillion’s liquidation. I have to say that it does not look like it. He told me that all public sector contracts would receive a smooth transition. What assurances can he give me that that will happen? He told me that the plan was to transfer the contract for the Midland Metropolitan Hospital to another company. What is the latest on that urgent matter? The Government have promised to set up a taskforce comprising the unions, business organisations and construction companies. What steps are being taken to protect transferred workers?

I refer the Minister to the letter from Frances O’Grady of the TUC on 30 January requesting protection of transferred workers’ terms and conditions. As the letter states, the transfer of workers employed on Carillion contracts in both the public sector and the private sector creates a significant risk of detrimental impacts on the pay, pensions and terms and conditions of all those staff. The letter calls on the Government to protect the livelihoods of Carillion workers and to ensure that they suffer no detriment from finding themselves employed by alternative providers of services.

The Government should, as a priority, look at ways of compelling public bodies to protect the terms and conditions of workers transferring to alternative providers. For example, the Cabinet Office should adopt a statement of practice on staff transfers that applies to all public bodies, including central Government and local government, the NHS, Transport for London and Network Rail. In that spirit, staff involved should be treated no less favourably than if the TUPE regulations had applied, and appropriate arrangements should be made to protect the occupational pensions and the redundancy and severance terms of staff in all types of transfer.

I call for voluntary TUPE agreements with new employers and for workers to be treated contractually as if they have continuous service. Will that be done? Will the Minister confirm that the Government’s objective is to ensure that Carillion workers’ rights remain the same, without any detriment?

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

Does not the sorry story of Carillion’s collapse illustrate exactly why there should be proper oversight of public sector contracts that are put out to private companies? We have seen problems in the Ministry of Justice with G4S and in the Home Office with Clearsprings. We should set the standard for employment terms and conditions through procurement. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a real opportunity to do that?

[Eleanor Smith]

I agree. I have finished my speech. I would now like to give my colleagues a chance to speak and to hear the answers to my questions.

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[Jo Stevens]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the Government taking responsibility and not standing back and doing nothing. Does he agree that, given the company’s three profit warnings, the Government should have done something before the collapse?

[Stephen Kerr]

Many issues relating to those profit warnings and the circumstances leading up to them need to be thoroughly investigated. Yes, at some point all of the stakeholders involved in this rather sorry story will have to explain and account for their decisions. That is right and proper and the way in which we run things in this country. We will learn from what we discover as we go through the process of inquiry. However, I congratulate the Government on acting pragmatically.

I now ask the Minister to act pragmatically on behalf of those workers who have moved from employment with Carillion to employment with a new private employer. We all know of the limitations of the regulations as things stand: TUPE applies only when a worker is transferred to a new company from an existing functioning company; it does not apply in the event of bankruptcy proceedings or analogous insolvency proceedings. I therefore ask the Minister to consider steps to provide, as my constituent said, some form of justice to Carillion workers who are transferred—thankfully, at one level—to another private company. Surely something can be done to protect the pay and conditions of those workers, because that is what would have happened had the contract changed hands: they would have been TUPE-ed across, as the saying goes. Instead, they have been caught up in the failure of Carillion.

It is wrong that these workers, through no fault of their own, should pay the price of lower pay and lesser conditions for doing the same job for a new company as they did for Carillion. When the Minister replies, I very much hope to hear that the Government will insist, at least in the transfer of public sector contracts from Carillion to new private companies, on a transfer of undertakings for the workers affected.

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[Justin Madders]

I absolutely agree. While there has been some progress in finding apprenticeships for some of those who have lost theirs, there are still a huge number who have yet to be found one. We should not underestimate how important it is to get people trained in those skills that we will need in the economy in the future. I hope that more effort goes into that.

On the other companies in the supply chain and subcontractors, is the Minister able to tell us what analysis he has made of the number of companies in these sectors at risk of insolvency and the number of employees whose employment is in jeopardy as a knock-on effect of the liquidation? Has he done any analysis of the numbers affected who are perhaps working in another capacity on Carillion contracts—either through agency arrangements or zero-hours contracts? They are really little more than bystanders in this process and are powerless to do anything but accept their fate. I hope we are able to do something to assist those individuals.

As we know, when a particular function transfers, it is normally the case that staff are transferred over under the TUPE regulations. No one is suggesting for a minute that that is not a preferable situation to redundancy, but it seems that there are questions to be answered about the exact basis on which people will transfer over to their new employers. There should be no ambiguity from the Government on this. People’s existing contracts should be honoured in full. We should not have state-sponsored watering down of terms and conditions. The Government should not be a willing partner in the chipping away of employee rights.

[Jo Stevens]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is an ideal opportunity for the Minister to confirm that TUPE, which obviously derives from the European Union’s acquired rights directive, will be maintained after Brexit, and that voluntary TUPE in these circumstances, to protect Carillion workers, could be offered as a commitment of that for the future?

[Justin Madders]

I certainly agree, and I would certainly like some clarity from the Government on a whole range of issues on the impact of Brexit. The acquired rights directive has been in place for some 30-plus years now. It is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it is particularly important in situations like this.

Even if there is a full TUPE transfer, we should not pretend that it will be happily ever after. The reality is that, in the majority of occasions when people transfer over to their new employers, sooner or later that employer will look to change the terms and conditions. When they say they are changing terms and conditions, they mean they are watering them down. We have already heard from some of my hon. Friends that there is considerable anxiety about that. It is a practice that has to stop.

The Government should stipulate that any company running a contract providing public services should respect agreed terms and conditions and look to adhere to the highest standards possible that a responsible employer could adopt—proper rates of pay that provide a living wage, trade union recognition and collective bargaining rights and an occupational pension that is not paid into only when the employer feels like it but is there, as it should be, as part of deferred pay and as an essential part of the contract.

So TUPE applies a certain level of protection. It is far from perfect and often misunderstood, but, contrary to what many people think, it does not provide unlimited protection against changes to terms and conditions. It certainly has more than enough loopholes in it to allow a determined employer to ultimately do as it wishes. Because of the way in which our employment rights system works in this country, changing the terms and conditions of employees is easier to do than finding savings elsewhere. However, in these circumstances it is preferable to redundancy. Let us protect the jobs and get as many transferred as we can, but let us not for a second think that that is the end of the matter. Let us not perpetuate the merry-go-round of misery. Let us take the opportunity to say to whoever ends up running the contracts, “Please respect and protect the terms and conditions of the people who do the day-to-day work.”

The Prime Minister has said that the Government are a customer of Carillion, which is of course true, but we should be much more than a customer. We should be the champion of public services, the defender of the highest employment standards and an exemplar for the private sector of the kinds of companies that we want to see succeed in the country. Perhaps people thought Carillion was a success story at some point, but it was a success built on sand, on deception and on avarice. We should be and we can be much better than that.

Tesco House, Cardiff: Job Losses

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Anna McMorrin]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend that it should be questioned on that, and I will address the issue later in my speech.

In his first year in charge as the group chief executive, Mr Lewis axed nearly 5,000 head office staff and UK store management jobs, as well as more than 4,000 roles overseas and at the group’s banking division. More than 2,500 jobs were lost with the closure of 48 so-called underperforming Tesco stores, and 3,000 jobs were put at risk in April when the chain cut night shifts for shelf stackers in some of its biggest supermarkets.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and parliamentary neighbour for securing this debate. According to last year’s Tesco accounts, the chief executive, Dave Lewis, was given a £4.15 million pay package, of which £2.4 million was a bonus. Does my hon. Friend agree that he could have taken a little bit less and the company could have kept a few more of those jobs? Every little helps.

[Anna McMorrin]

I think it is absolutely the case that the company is prioritising management over the hard-working workforce, who are highly skilled and motivated.

I suspect that nearly every Member of this House has a Tesco store in their constituency. It is one of the UK’s biggest and most recognisable brands, with a loyal customer base.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna McMorrin]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend about that, which is precisely why I brought this debate to the House.

One worker told me:

“We are absolutely devastated as my fiancée is currently on maternity leave with the birth of our baby daughter. We have also planned to get married next year so this news has come at the worst possible time for us in our lives and we are very worried for the future.”

Another staff member contacted me on Facebook. He said:

“It’s been stressful for a lot of us, some more than others. I’ve been made aware that there are options to apply for a store role or to move to the Tesco site up Dundee. This is not an option as it’d be too much of a drastic life change and there are very few roles considering the number of employees in our centre. The announcement has also left me wondering, if I moved to another role in the business, would I be any less vulnerable to another redundancy announcement in future.”

He went on:

“A lot of my colleagues whose time at Tesco exceed 10 years are choosing to stay until the end for their redundancy package as they’ll get a significantly larger amount but for many employees like myself who have been with Tesco just a little over a year, we see no incentive in staying as I don’t feel valued as an employee anymore and barely feel like I’m part of the place now.

The morale has dropped rapidly on my work floor whereas it felt like a small community only a year back, and now it feels very empty and makes me feel quite down whenever I’m in the environment. I used to love coming to work but now the hours feel longer and it just feels like it’s getting in the way of the hours I could be using to find progression in life.”

Those are just a few of the many messages I have had from distraught members of staff who have been affected.

What is going to happen now? The Welsh Government’s Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates, has announced the formation of a taskforce to find new employment opportunities for the staff. That is a welcome development. It will pool the knowledge and resources of key partners to ensure that the 1,100 people currently working at the centre are provided with the very best support in seeking further employment, as well as welfare and emotional support. Following my question to the Leader of the House on 22 June, I ask the Minister before us to urge the Department for Work and Pensions to work with the Welsh Government and dispatch its emergency taskforce to help ensure that the staff who are affected are fully supported.

While that work goes on, along with the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, I will be making the case for Tesco to rethink its plans and for better engagement with its workforce. If there is to be any outsourcing of jobs, at the very least I would like an assurance from Tesco and the management that they will go to companies based in south Wales.

[Jo Stevens]

My hon. Friend is being very generous with her time. When she and I met staff at Tesco, the point about outsourcing was raised. We heard that work had been outsourced for the past 12 months and that when people left Tesco House, they were not being replaced. Does she share my concern about the lack of transparency from Tesco management about where the work is going, because the number of jobs being lost and the jobs being offered in Dundee simply do not add up?

[Anna McMorrin]

I agree with my hon. Friend: there has been no transparency on this issue, and that is what I would like to see. I call on the Minister to request it.

I reiterate my deep disappointment at the way Tesco has handled the situation. I struggle to understand its rationale for losing such a highly dedicated workforce. As a company that supposedly values its workers, it should not want to lose decades of experience and the specialist skills staff have acquired. We all know Tesco, we have all shopped there. It has a loyal customer base in Cardiff and its staff deserve more and better than this. I hope that the Minister will join me in condemning this behaviour and work with me and alongside the Welsh Government in making the case to Tesco to rethink its plans and offer better engagement and more transparency to the workforce.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention and I did note her earlier remarks. I do not think there is any prospect of reversing that decision. I accept that it can prove difficult for people to find alternative employment within the 45 days, but a lot of support is going on in Cardiff, not just from the DWP and the Government but from the Welsh Assembly. It is a buoyant economy and I hope that people will find satisfactory employment within that timeframe.

It is not always easy to find another job, and even if people do so it does not alter the hurt they feel at the rejection that redundancy always involves. But business change is an inevitable consequence of competitive markets, and retail is a highly competitive market at the moment. Commercial and economic opportunities and threats mean that companies will need to reorganise, merge, expand and, sometimes, unfortunately contract in response. To ensure businesses remain viable and profitable, they need the flexibility to respond to the circumstances they are facing as best they can. At the same time, employees will want to know how the changes are likely to affect them, and what their options are for the future. It is vital, therefore, that there is effective consultation with employees about the potential for collective redundancies.

[Jo Stevens]

Is the Minister aware that this is the largest single number of job losses that has been announced in Wales for a decade? About 100 of my constituents are affected by the decision, and they will be very disappointed that the Minister batted away the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Ruth George) about the consultation period. Will she please reconsider, and talk to her Cabinet colleagues about the issue?

[Margot James]

Let me reassure the hon. Lady. The fact that this is the worst case for 10 years points to the buoyancy of the economy in Wales. That part of the country is doing well. When I visited it just two months ago, I was very impressed by the dynamism that I found in Cardiff and the surrounding area. I do not share the hon. Lady’s pessimism about the opportunities for people. However, as I said earlier, I certainly appreciate that it is not a simple case of getting another job and all is well, particularly when a whole community is affected as this community has been.

Let me say something about the legislation. Collective redundancy legislation strikes a balance between the needs of the business and the needs of employees. It applies when 20 or more employees are made redundant at one establishment within 90 days. In those circumstances, employers have a statutory duty to consult employees’ representatives about the proposed redundancies. The consultation must be with the employees’ trade union representatives, or with other elected employee representatives when there is no recognised trade union. It must be completed before any dismissal notices can take effect, and it must be undertaken with a view to reaching agreement, although sometimes—I recognise this—agreement may not be possible. It must include consideration of ways of avoiding redundancies in the first place, reducing the number of people to be made redundant, and importantly, mitigating the effect of the dismissals. Employers also have a number of obligations, including a requirement to notify the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy of the proposed collective redundancies before the start of the statutory consultation.

Redundancy can be—and usually is—a stressful time for those affected. I want to highlight the service offered by the ACAS helpline, which can advise people on their particular circumstances. ACAS has also produced a guide for employers on handling large-scale redundancies such as those that we are discussing this evening.

Let me now say something about the support that is available to employees who are made redundant. Throughout the redundancy process, employers still have obligations to their employees, and should be thinking about the help that they can offer at all times. Employees with at least two years’ service who have been given notice of redundancy have a right to reasonable time off so that they can look for a new job or arrange training. The Department for Work and Pensions and the local Jobcentre Plus have already been in touch with Tesco to offer their support.

I recommend that, in the case of redundancies, employers should always contact Jobcentre Plus as soon as possible to discuss appropriate support that can be delivered locally. All decisions about appropriate support are made locally, because a decision based on a specific redundancy situation, an individual’s own transferable skills and experience, and the availability of jobs in the local area is far more likely to be the right decision.

[Margot James]

I very much agree with what is behind the hon. Lady’s intervention. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales is taking that forward, and has already met the chief executive. The south-east Wales district Jobcentre Plus will deploy its redundancy response action plan, which includes working with partner organisations such as Careers Wales, the Welsh Government, the National Employer Partnership Team, the local authority, DWP pensions and Tesco trade unions to deliver a bespoke package of support, which I think is what the hon. Lady is after. The typical support provided for individuals is matching people to local known job vacancies and/or helping to construct or improve CVs. Where there is scope to do so, support can be delivered on a group basis, for example by bringing redundant workers and employers together at a jobs fair as well as at group sessions and one-to-ones on site, to provide support and information on benefits, pensions, support from DWP and Careers Wales. Matching current vacancies to the skills and requirements of the affected individuals is a key part of the service Jobcentre Plus provides. This has been successful in many other redundancy situations.

Tesco has assured Government that its first priority is to do everything it can to support its colleagues in Cardiff, including helping them to find roles within Tesco, working with Jobcentre Plus, USDAW and the Welsh Government, and connecting with other local employers who might have vacancies.

[Jo Stevens]

One way in which Tesco could assist these staff members is not to make them redundant six weeks before they qualify for their annual bonus payment. Does the Minister agree that such behaviour should be discouraged?

[Margot James]

I am very sympathetic to that point; that seems to add insult to injury. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales has raised that issue with the chief executive of Tesco, and I am sure he will raise it again thanks to the hon. Lady’s intervention.

The Welsh Government have already established a taskforce, which stands ready to support the Cardiff workers once the outcome of the consultation is known. It is being led by Ken Skates; Fiona Jones, DWP’s director for Wales work services, is a member of the taskforce, too. Tesco has confirmed that it will also work closely with the Welsh Government on its redundancy action scheme—ReAct—a programme that funds training for people living in Wales who are facing redundancy. Tesco will be engaging with the Welsh Contact Centre Forum and will be keen to reach out to other employers who might have vacancies. A significant number of businesses have already approached both Tesco and the Welsh Government, but the current focus has to be on the ongoing consultation process before any detailed discussions can progress with other companies. At present, Tesco is not able to provide specific details on the package available to staff, as this will be considered as part of the ongoing 45-day consultation.

In conclusion, I reiterate that retail is a vital sector for the UK economy and we are committed to it.

Taylor Review: Working Practices

Jo Stevens Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I agree with the hon. Lady’s concluding remarks and hope she will input her views as part of the consultation.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

The Minister has twice referred to the fact that flexibility seems to work only one way—to the benefit of the employer. Does that flexibility include her Government’s failure to prosecute a single employer in Wales last year for flouting the minimum wage rules?