Protecting Steel in the UK
John Hayes Excerpts(2 years, 3 months ago)
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Ms Ghani
Steel is infinitely recyclable and we have a glut of it in the UK. We use shy of 3 million tonnes and we export around 8 million tonnes, so we have it within the system and we can recycle it. It has the same chemical compound and it can be used infinitely, so that is the assurance in the supply chain.
As hon. Members will know, Tata Steel will shortly begin a statutory consultation with employees and trade unions as it embarks on a fundamental transformation project to replace its two blast furnaces with state-of-the-art electric arc furnaces. We cannot stop the clock. The technology is here and customers are asking for cleaner, greener steel.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Is not the truth of the matter—I admired, by the way, the shadow Secretary of State’s rhetoric—that Port Talbot is a victim of climate militancy and extremism? Net zero zealots do not understand that unless we manufacture in this country, we will extend supply chains and our carbon footprint will grow. Is that not the truth of the matter?
Holly Mumby-Croft
My hon. Friend, who knows a great deal about steel, is absolutely right. We need to remember that if we are not making that virgin steel here in the UK, it will come from someone else’s blast furnaces, probably from the other side of the world. We will have no control over the emissions or how that steel is produced. We will have no control over the welfare of the people who make it. The steel will then be put on a ship—a ship with a diesel engine, not a sail—and driven over here to be thrown into our electric arc furnaces to make that mix.
Sir John Hayes
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The more that we make in this country—the more food we grow; the more products we produce—the more essential our manufacturing base becomes, and not just for our economic resilience and wellbeing, but for our move to this wonderful carbon-neutral future, which is so beloved of so many.
Holly Mumby-Croft
My right hon. Friend is correct. Put simply, unless we are going to stop using virgin steel in this country, we should have the ability to make it ourselves, so that we can take responsibility for those emissions and for the production methods, and for the working conditions of those who make the products.
Last week, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence remarked that we are entering a pre-war world. A strong—or at least “in existence”—steelmaking industry is a core part of our nation’s defence capability. We may choose to buy the steel that we need for our defence from other countries—whether or not I agree with that—but resilience is not only about what we choose to do in future; it is also about what we may need to do, or what we may need to have the capability to do should the need arise.
On 18 September, I asked my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry and Economic Security whether she agreed that
“for national security reasons alone, we must ensure that we retain the capability to make virgin steel in this country”.
As I said in the urgent question that I later secured, that was confirmed to me by the Secretary of State the very same day, and I took contemporaneous notes of that conversation. On 18 September, my hon. Friend the Minister commented that I was correct on the importance of virgin steel, stating:
“obviously, we need a place for virgin steel, and that is in her constituency.”—[Official Report, 18 September 2023; Vol. 737, c. 1125.]
I have no problem with building electric arc furnaces—it is a good idea—but I passionately believe that the UK should retain, at least in the medium term, some blast furnace capability alongside that. After the sad news in Port Talbot, that has to be in Scunthorpe.
On 6 October, British Steel set out its plans, which it says are subject to appropriate support from the Government. They are the content of the negotiations that my hon. Friend is working so hard on. They talk about installing two electric arc furnaces, one in Scunthorpe and one in Teesside, and they propose maintaining current operations until a transition to electric arc steelmaking.
I want to be crystal clear: I expect the company to keep to its word on this. If we are to give British Steel hundreds of millions of pounds of public money, we need to ensure that it retains those blast furnaces until the transition. In short, that must be written into the deal. I do not want the sad events happening in Port Talbot to happen to my people in Scunthorpe. I do not want to see blast furnaces switched off early and steel being brought in from abroad and rolled in our mills. I want those blast furnaces to be on for as long as possible, maintaining jobs and keeping options open, so that we can explore alternative technologies, just as other countries are doing.
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
There is no question but that this is an extremely worrying time for families in Port Talbot and for the community at large. I know the community extremely well, and my father was a welder at the basic oxygen steelmaking plant in the steelworks for more than 30 years. Port Talbot is a community where everyone knows someone who is related to the steelworks in some way. The scale of the impact that this will have on the community should not be underestimated. It is not just the jobs themselves. There will be the contractual jobs and the associated roles with those contractual jobs, so there is a significant multiplier that follows on.
Of course, this is not the first time that we have been in this position or that the steelworks have been under threat. I can remember tens of thousands of people working there when I was growing up in the 1970s. The reality is that in 2016 we were in a similar position, when Tata planned to close the plant but, in opposition to what the Government are now claiming, the UK Government proactively worked with Tata to encourage a sale and, in the interim, the price of steel rose, which has given us a much longer lifespan for the site.
I want to point out that the commitment that Tata has shown is significant and needs to be recognised, because it has lost millions of pounds over time. In the close of 2018, as Secretary of State for Wales, I went to Mumbai to meet the chairman and chief executive of Tata, and to express my concern that the price of steel at that time was falling, and I wanted to know what their plans were. That is the proactivity with which the Government maintained an interest over time in seeking to support the industry and to support steel.
Sir John Hayes
I take my right hon. Friend’s point about commerciality, but the truth is that we can and should protect those core industries that are at the heart of our manufacturing capacity. If we open ourselves up to cheap foreign imports with huge environmental costs, we are bound to end in a situation of the kind he describes. I thank him and, in particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft) for their work, but it is for the Government to prioritise British jobs and British manufacturers.
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend makes an extremely important point, and I strongly agree with him. That is the proactivity that the Government have sought to pursue. I should correct the record, by the way: it was in November 2019 that I went to Mumbai to meet Tata.
However, the reality is that every time a Member of this House, on either side of the Chamber, has called for us to go further and faster and to be ahead of the curve in the green transition, another nail has been put in the coffin of heavy industry such as Tata in Port Talbot. That is the reality of the position. When we have passed climate change legislation here we have heard many Opposition Members—those who are now seeking to defend the jobs—saying that the Government are not doing enough on our green transition.
The £500 million is a significant sum, and we should not play it down. We must also remember that this is a devolved responsibility. Pre-devolution, that money would have been coming out of the Welsh block. We all know that since 2016 the Welsh Government have done nothing to reinvest in the plant after we managed to save it from closure, so I find it churlish when the Minister in the Welsh Government says he needs hundreds of millions. Those are the people calling for further devolution and further responsibility, but ultimately there is no accountability for the decisions, because investment in industry is a devolved function.
However, thanks to the Union and thanks to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, the UK Government can invest in the steelworks in Wales. That is the same Act that the Opposition voted against and to which the Welsh Assembly would not even approve a legislative consent motion in order for it to pass.
In the limited time I have, I also want to point out this is a two-blast furnace site; having one blast furnace operational makes it even more inefficient, and it will lose more money. My hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft) highlighted a really important point about an arc furnace, and I have not heard the automotive sector say that it is content with that. Finally, I hope we will have a development corporation in order to save the economy in the area.
Investment Security Unit: Scrutiny
John Hayes Excerpts(3 years, 1 month ago)
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Darren Jones
There is an interesting question there, to which none of us knows the answer: how routine will it be for us to have to look at either commercially sensitive or national security-sensitive information about individual transactions? From our study visit to the United States, it seemed that most of the transactions were operationalised, and had not become political or been escalated to a committee level, because the issues were seen to be sensible, small or below de minimis thresholds.
There will be examples where there is more political interest in a particular transaction. In the past year, for example, where the 2021 Act has been operational, the vast majority of the notifications that my Committee has received have not warranted our having to look at the national security information. For some cases, such as Newport Wafer Fab, the industrial implications of that decision will warrant our looking at that information in more detail. Under this memorandum of understanding, we will request that information when we are permitted to do so—after the period of judicial review and appeal has closed—so that we may understand whether the Act is being used in the way it is supposed to be used, without deterring investment in the interests of workers and business in this country.
The right hon. and learned Gentleman refers to staff. As I said in my statement, the House has kindly provided the Committee with additional staff, who are national security specialists and have a range of security clearances. In the MOU, there are procedures and processes for the handling, holding, storage and use of information, both between my Committee and my Clerks, but also where necessary within Government facilities.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Just to endorse the comments of my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), I know that the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones) has behaved in an admirably collegiate manner throughout. On the issue of exceptional access to highly sensitive information, the MOU makes clear that members of the Committee may have sight of that information, but they will not be able to retain it or analyse it, and the Committee will not have staff who can keep that information, report back on it and advise the Committee’s members once they have been able to analyse it. That is in contrast to the ISC, is it not, which has all those things. Is that really appropriate? How does he feel he will navigate that paradox?
Illegal Immigration
John Hayes Excerpts(3 years, 5 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
The hon. and learned Lady will know that the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 and the Dublin agreement all consider the proposition that it is possible to return people who have come here who should not be here. It allows the possibility of designating safe countries, and of removals, so that principle is well established in international law. We want a system whereby, if people come here illegally, they will not be able to stay. That is a simple, common-sense, fair principle that the vast majority of the country is right behind.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
It is rare in this House, Mr Speaker, to agree with every single sentiment, impulse and word—unless it is a speech of my own, of course—but I did today, and I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. His set of measures is apposite and appropriate, and it will be appreciated across the country. Will he, as most of my constituents would, when people travel across safe countries, as they frequently do before they claim asylum, automatically assume that their claim is spurious or at least doubtful?
The Prime Minister
That is what our new legislation will deliver. It will make it unambiguously clear: if you come here illegally, you will have no right to stay and will be removed either back to your own safe country or to a safe alternative. That is the right system to have. It is the fair system to have. It means that we can concentrate our generosity and compassion on those around the world who most need it, which I know is the type of system that my right hon. Friend wants to see.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Hayes Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
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The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Lady, who has been a consistent champion on this issue, for which I recognise and pay tribute to her. My understanding is that the information is available to veterans and their families, who may request details of their service and medical records, but if the hon. Lady would like to write to me, I will make sure that she gets an adequate answer on her more specific point.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
I rise not to perpetuate partisanship nor parrot party lines, but merely to amplify the sentiments of the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey). The nuclear test veterans—those brave servicemen who did so much so long ago to ensure our safety—were recognised by former Prime Minister David Cameron and, in a meeting with the hon. Lady and me, by the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson). Will the Deputy Prime Minister and our new Prime Minister recognise them too, not only by doing what the hon. Lady has asked for but by giving them the service medal that they so richly deserve and that we owe them?
The Deputy Prime Minister
My right hon. friend is absolutely right. We should forever be grateful to all those service personnel who participated in the British nuclear testing programme. I can reassure him that we have asked officials to look again at recognition with medals. Any recommendations will be announced in the usual way.
Tributes to Her Late Majesty The Queen
John Hayes Excerpts(3 years, 8 months ago)
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Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Most people who possess power first seek it. Indeed, in this place, we know that many people crave it. Her late Majesty the Queen never sought power—it was truly thrust upon her—but, when she wielded authority, she did more fundamental good and brought more benefit than almost anyone here, and of course for much, much longer.
Most people with influence expect plaudits, but, for Her late Majesty the Queen, acclamation, when it became obvious and clear to her just how much she was loved, was greeted on her part with humility and grace.
Most of those who lead expect to bring change. For her, constancy was the most fundamental thing that she could bring to the nation—a permanent part of who we are as a people; each of us and all of us. It is not that she was behind the times; she was beyond the times.
I remember meeting her a number of times. In particular, 20 years ago in Buckingham Palace she said to me, “Do you use computers in your office?” I said, “Yes, we do, your Majesty.” She said, “I have such trouble printing things out. Sometimes pages get missed altogether. I have been caught out making speeches like that twice.” She went on to say that, when her husband Prince Philip could not print things, in her words, “The air turns blue.” Her sense of humour was a part of her charm—so obvious and palpable that she could charm even those who were not intuitively or instinctively in favour of the monarchy.
I met her, but I did not know her. Few people knew her well, but we knew that she was there. She was in our consciousness. Not many people think of the sun and the moon—I suppose that astronomers and astrologers do; I have in mind a fusion of William Herschel and Russell Grant—but we know that they are there, for we expect the sun to come up in the morning and we expect to bathe in the light of the moon, and so it was with Her late Majesty. Now, our days are a little dimmer and our nights are a little colder for her passing, for she was in all of our lives for so, so long.
The Queen wore the crown, but of course she was not the Crown. The Crown has a permanent life—it goes on—and the institution she graced is secure in the hands of her heir, her son, our King. This woman, whose life lasted so long, personified dignity, was gracious and, in that way, brought a beauty to her job. For there was, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) said, a beauty about her grace—a quiet, enduring and palpable beauty.
Now that the Crown passes to her dear son, our wonderful King, we must hope that he in his grief will know that he shares that grief with everyone in this House and with all her people, for whom she will remain not merely as a memory but a presence in the Crown itself. May God, as he welcomes Her Majesty to heaven, keep and bless her successor, our King Charles. God save the King.
Bill of Rights
John Hayes Excerpts(3 years, 10 months ago)
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The Deputy Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is wrong, although he is right to reference the Belfast agreement. We remain a state party to the convention. Not only that, but the ECHR remains incorporated into UK law through the schedule. [Interruption.] He is chuntering from a sedentary position; I genuinely enjoy debating these issues, as we have on many occasions. If he reads the Bill, I will be very happy to address any other questions he has.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
The Secretary of State and Attorney General are to be commended for taking seriously the task of taking back control of our ancient legal entitlements from unelected, unaccountable foreign judges, and of rooting them in the people’s Parliament here in Westminster. In doing so, will he challenge the assumptions that underpin the Human Rights Act, which are that rights are more important than responsibilities and that injury to interest is more important than duty? That is the fundamental issue. Will he challenge and, at last, dock the long tail of Blairism?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank my right hon. Friend for, as ever, the colourful and eloquent way that he presents the issue. When it comes to collective interest, social policy and finely balanced judgments around public protection, I do think that adjudication in court by lawyers, rather than a broader discussion and debate among elected Members of Parliament accountable to their citizens, is a mistake. We will protect the fundamental freedoms that make this country great—they existed long before the Human Rights Act and they will exist long after. He is right about the balance between protecting individual liberty and freedom under the rule of law, of which I am immensely proud, and making sure that elected Members of this House can protect the public, take finely balanced judgments on social policy, and take judgments that affect the public purse.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Hayes Excerpts(4 years ago)
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The Prime Minister
On my own fixed penalty notice, I have been transparent with the House—and will be—and I have apologised. On the rest of it, I really think, as I have said before, that the House should wait for the conclusion of the investigation when Sue Gray finally reports.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Long ago in a far off place, thousands of British servicemen sailed into what was for them the unknown as they witnessed the early tests of nuclear weapons. They have lived with the consequences of that service to our nation ever since. Following a question to the Prime Minister from the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), he agreed to meet us and those veterans. Will he now assure the House that he will take personal charge of the decision on whether to grant the remaining servicemen—for there are few left—the service medal they so richly deserve?
The Prime Minister
I thank my right hon. Friend very much for campaigning on this issue, which I know attracts support across the House. I will certainly take personal charge of the matter and make sure that the veterans receive the recognition they deserve.
Covid-19: Public Inquiry
John Hayes Excerpts(4 years ago)
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mrs Heather Wheeler)
I welcome this debate, which is on a subject of vital importance: ensuring that the public inquiry into covid-19 is set up in the most effective way possible, so that we may learn lessons from the terrible pandemic. I congratulate the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) on securing it. I will try to respond to her specific points, but let me begin by setting out the current position on the inquiry and the next steps.
The current status was given on 10 March, when the Prime Minister published the draft terms of reference for the public inquiry into covid-19. The inquiry will take place under the Inquiries Act 2005 and will have full formal powers. It will be chaired by the right hon. Baroness Heather Hallett, the former Lady Justice of Appeal, who was also the coroner at the inquest into the 7/7 bombings. As it is vital that we get the inquiry’s terms of reference right—the hon. Lady has asked me many questions on this point—the Prime Minister has asked Baroness Hallett to lead a period of public engagement and consultation before making recommendations to him on any refinements. I will say a little more about that process in a few moments, but first I will describe the inquiry’s remit as it is currently drafted.
The draft terms of reference give the inquiry two aims: to find the facts and to learn lessons for the future. Both are crucial to help us all to understand what happened and what we should learn from the experience. In order to fulfil those aims, the inquiry—quite rightly—will have a very broad scope. The draft terms of reference cover preparedness, the response in the health and care sector, and our economic response. It looks at decision making and its implications at a central, local and devolved level. That all aims to ensure that every part of the UK can learn the lessons needed from this experience to prepare for future pandemics.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
I am grateful to the Government for establishing the inquiry to learn lessons from this awful pandemic. The Minister deserves great credit for her leadership of that process. Will she add to those terms of reference the death care sector? She will know that funeral directors, morticians, gravediggers—all those involved at the place of burial or cremation—right through to bereavement councillors faced extraordinary challenges during this time. Access to PPE, the organisation of funerals and vaccination as a priority are all things that I hope the Minister will look at as part of the process, so that if we ever face something similar—heaven help us if we should—we will get it right.
Mrs Wheeler
I thank my right hon. Friend for asking those questions. In just a minute I will come to an answer for him.
Importantly, the terms of reference require the inquiry to listen to the experiences of those most affected by the pandemic, including bereaved families, and to investigate any disparities evident in the impact of the pandemic and our responses. This point is crucial, because the draft terms of reference are explicit that the inquiry must look at the protected characteristics in particular, as the hon. Member for Battersea asked me more than once. I confirm that those are age, disability, race, sex, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, gender reassignment, and religion and beliefs. Each of those important issues is already in the scope of the inquiry’s terms of reference.
As I have said, it is vital that we get the terms of reference right, which is precisely why the Prime Minister asked Baroness Hallett to consult on the draft. That consultation opened on 10 March and closed on 7 April. Over the course of four weeks, Baroness Hallett and her team travelled to 11 cities across the UK and spoke to more than 150 bereaved families. They also heard from sector representatives, including those representing children, people with disabilities, and frontline and key workers including funeral directors—I will ensure the list has been extended to other frontline workers—about a range of equality issues.
People have shared their views online as to what the inquiry should investigate, what it should look at first and whether it should set an end date for its hearings. Those responding have offered their suggestions on how people who have been severely impacted by the pandemic, or who have lost loved ones, can be given a voice and be part of the inquiry. By the time the inquiry’s consultation concluded, over 20,000 individuals and organisations had responded. That is an incredible level of response, which demonstrates the depth of feeling held on this matter and the importance of getting this work right. I have no doubt that the views expressed here today on refinements to the terms of reference will also have been made through that process.
As regards Scotland, any inquiry set up by the devolved Administrations may only consider devolved matters. This inquiry will ensure that the whole of the UK can learn the right lessons for the future, and in doing so it will seek to avoid duplication with any inquiry set up on a devolved basis.
The inquiry is now collating and analysing all the responses it received. Baroness Hallett has said that she will make recommendations to the Prime Minister on the final terms of reference in May. In the interests of transparency, Baroness Hallett has committed to publishing a summary of the consultation responses received and the many meetings she has held.
Once the Prime Minister has received Baroness Hallett’s recommendations, he will consider them carefully before finalising the terms of reference and making a further statement. As regards the date when the public hearings will start, the important thing is that the inquiry will begin its formal work this spring, once the terms of reference are finalised. As the Prime Minister has always said, from that point the process, procedure and timing of the inquiry stages will be for the independent chair to determine, and it is right that we respect that.
Ukraine
John Hayes Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. We will have to see what further downstream effects there are on collaboration of all kinds. Hitherto, I have been broadly in favour of continuing artistic and scientific collaboration, but in the current circumstances it is hard to see how even those can continue as normal.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
The mix of practice and principle is the test of democratic politics, exemplified at its best when this House comes together in common cause. The test of leadership is the mix of vision and will, and the Prime Minister is to be commended for his wilful, clear-sighted determination. Will he now reassure the House that he is in close touch with those countries close to Ukraine, where nerves will be frayed? Will he send them the urgent message that this House and this nation will always stand together and behind free nations?
The Prime Minister
As so often, my right hon. Friend is precisely right. That is why, together with my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Defence and the Foreign Secretary, we have been visiting Poland, Romania, the Balts—all those who are now feeling such deep unease at what is happening.
Human Rights Legislation
John Hayes Excerpts(4 years, 5 months ago)
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Dominic Raab
The hon. Gentleman has done one thing with his words: highlight the importance of protecting free speech and rambunctious debate, even though he is wrong in everything he said.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
The Secretary of State is to be commended on the statement, but will he be clear that we need to challenge the very principle of natural rights, which gave rise to the Human Rights Act? It has had the effect of emphasising individual interest above social solidarity, weakening communal will and undermining the sovereignty of this Parliament, which is and always has been the primary guarantor of Britain’s rights. Will my right hon. Friend conduct a root and branch reform of that assumption about rights, put aside consideration of the Human Rights Act, which is part of the Blairite legacy, and challenge those parts of the convention that frustrate this Parliament and the wishes of the British people?
Dominic Raab
I always enjoy hearing my right hon. Friend’s side of the argument. As John Stuart Mill said:
“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.”
I do not take quite the same view as my right hon. Friend, but I welcome his iconoclasm and his challenge to ensure that we get a better balance between individual rights— which, as he has often said to me, Bentham described as “nonsense upon stilts”—and communal and societal needs, and particularly public protection in the areas that I outlined, whether parole reform, police forces or deportation of foreign national offenders.